[INDOLOGY] A request

Wed Jun 24 23:15:33 UTC 2015

Dear Artur,

I was not sure if you were seeking only information from the Indian jyotiṣa
siddhānta texts, i.e., astronomical texts proper. You say here that you are
preparing a short paper on the traces of the knowledge of several
astronomical cycles --- as reflected in Indian mythological narratives. If
we include mythological narratives as possible sources of knowledge of
astronomical cycles, there are more sources to draw upon. One such source
is the writings of R. Shamasastry (died 1944), which I mention in case you
have not already consulted them.

Most relevant to the saros cycle are Shamasastry's 1938 book, *Drapsa: The
Vedic Cycle of Eclipses, a Key to unlock the treasures of the Vedas*, and
his 1940 book, *Eclipse-Cult in the Vedas, Bible, and Koran, a Supplement
to the "Drapsa"*. David Pingree in his 1973 article, "The Mesopotamian
Origin of Early Indian Mathematical Astronomy," discusses the five-year
cycle taught in the *Jyotiṣa-vedāṅga*, and notes that there is no obvious
parallel to this in the 18-year saros eclipse cycle (p. 8): "If we look in
cuneiform texts for a five-year intercalation-cycle, we are frustrated."
Shamasastry attempts to show that the Vedic texts, through their symbolism,
do refer to a 19-year eclipse cycle that is parallel to the saros cycle. He
begins his Preface to *Drapsa* as follows:

"What is ascribed to the Vedic poets in the following pages is not a
knowledge of mathematical astronomy which they never had, nor prediction of
eclipses with mathematical accuracy which they never did. All that is
claimed for them is a knowledge of the famous eclipse-cycle which they seem
to have been using in common with the Chaldeans, Israelites, and other
contemporary nations."

I do not have the knowledge to evaluate Shamasastry's statements, and I
list these books only as possible sources to check. What attracted me to
his writings was his 1936 translation of the *Vedangajyautisha*. The
*Jyotiṣa-vedāṅga* is so brief that many of its verses are enigmatic.
Shamasastry said that the same system was taught in the Jaina astronomical
texts, *Sūryaprajñapti*, *Jyotiṣkaraṇḍa* (or *Jyotiṣakaraṇḍaka*), and
*Kālalokaprakāśa*. Using these Jaina texts he arrived at what he thought
were satisfactory interpretations of the enigmatic verses of the
*Jyotiṣa-vedāṅga*. Here in *Drapsa*, too, he used one of these, as he says
in his Preface (p. vii):

"In interpreting the seven Vedic Metres as Gnoman's shadow-measures of
seven ordinary or intercalary months and of the solstices, my chief
authority is the Jaina astronomical work entitled the 'Kālalokaprakāśa' on
the Gnoman's shadow-measure of months and solstices, with which the Vedic
metrical shadow-measures are identical."

I would be happy to provide scans of any of these writings that I refer to.
These are normally ones that I have already gathered, either in the
original or as photocopies that I made of them, and include the writings of
R. Shamasastry, David Pingree, the *Jyotiṣa-vedāṅga*, and the
*Sūryaprajñapti* with Malayagiri's commentary. The exceptions here are the
*Kālalokaprakāśa* and the *Jyotiṣakaraṇḍaka* with Malayagiri's commentary
(I do have the Prakrit *Jyotiṣakaraṇḍaka*, but I need the edition with the
Sanskrit commentary, apparently 1928). Despite decades of searching, and
even contacting David Pingree about them while he was still alive, I have
not yet been able to obtain these two texts. If anyone can provide me with
photocopies or scans of them, I would be very grateful.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Thank you, dear Nancy and David.
>
> Also I looked for any definite evidence on the concept of *saros* being
> used by the ancient Indian astronomers. Without success. But, having no
> formal training in the field of Indian archaeoastronomy, I might have
> missed the relevant references re the use of *saros*.
>
> Am preparing a short paper on the traces of the knowledge of several
> astronomical cycles --- as reflected in Indian mythological narratives -
> and Prof. Plofker's opinion on the matter would be of a definite value.
>
> Best,
>
> Artur
>
> 2015-06-24 19:05 GMT+02:00 David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com>:
>
>> Dear Artur Karp,
>>
>> As you saw, I forwarded your inquiry to Kim Plofker. She was a student of
>> David Pingree. Besides checking a couple of his writings, as I mentioned, I
>> also checked the article by Sukumar Ranjan Das, "Lunar and Solar Eclipses
>> in Hindu Astronomy" (Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, n.s. vol.
>> 24, 1928, pp. 437-454). He mentions the saros cycle at the end (p. 453),
>> implying that the ancient Indian astronomers knew it. However, this was not
>> obvious from their methods of calculating eclipses that he describes. Just
>> thought I would mention this, in case you have not already checked this
>> article.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David Reigle
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> My thanks go to Agathe Keller --- !
>>>
>>> Now, the page 165 of Balachandra Rao's book carries the title: "Saros
>>> and Metonic cycle". I hoped prof. Rao would provide some information on the
>>> use of *saros* & Metonic cycle in the Indian astronomical/astrological
>>> practice. A disappointment: there is nothing there apart from some general
>>> info, such as could have been culled from any simple handbook on the
>>> history of astronomy.
>>>
>>> Was the concept of *saros* known to ancient Indian astronomers?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Artur Karp
>>>
>>>
>>> 2015-06-24 0:00 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:
>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>>
>>>> could anyone, please, scan and send me a copy of page 165 from
>>>> Balachandra Rao's "Indian Astronomy: An Introduction" (Universities
>>>> Press, Hyderabad 2000)?
>>>>
>>>> My thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Artur Karp
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20150624/f90b0277/attachment.htm>