Porunthal: dating of paddy in the 5th century B.C. and possible consequences on the evaluation of the history of writing in India

[Dipak Bhattacharya]

Dear Dr. Chevillard,
I submit this with hesitation and prior apology because I am no expert on ancient Tamil scripts. But in the few specimens I have (like A.H.Dani 
Oxford 1963 whose 'plates' are printed on horribly poor quality papers, 
V.Kannaiyan and a few like material) the early Tamil va is not a diamond . It may be a sharp triangle or triangle with round edge and an 
antenna. Do we have evidence to identify the initial sign as a va?
Best
DB


________________________________
From: Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD <jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Porunthal: dating of paddy in the 5th century B.C. and possible consequences on the evaluation of the history of writing in India

Dear Corinna Wessels-Mevissen,

can you explain more in details
why you are sceptical with the decipherment
"va-y(a)-ra".

Every comment is important, at this stage, ...

Best wishes

-- jlc



On 16/10/2011 00:30, Corinna Wessels-Mevissen wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> What I have seen in the circulated picture is just typical "graffiti" we are getting on Iron Age to Early Historical Period pottery in graves (urn burial and/or "Megalithic"). It has been known since the 19th century. Sometimes it comes like a "code" or intentional sequence. One should, of course, analyse it further, but I fail to see a breakthrough in this one. (I had studied such ceramics for my M.A. thesis back in the 80ies and have seen scores of the typical pottery items, all without Brahmi writing.)
> Sorry to say this, but I would be always very careful, even suspicious, believing this kind of "news" without looking into the matter very closely. Actually, the original article should have illustrated the example for everyone to see. Archaeologists, particularly in Tamilnadu, seem to be under a constant kind of pressure (or is it a mindset?) to "push back" so far established dates. They regularly come up with various attempts.
> With best wishes,
> Corinna Wessels-Mevissen
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM>
> *An:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> *Gesendet:* 18:06 Samstag, 15.Oktober 2011
> *Betreff:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Porunthal: dating of paddy in the 5th century B.C. and possible consequences on the evaluation of the history of writing in India
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> My apology that this is no additional light but the most common and inevitable queries. Will the Porunthal discovery shorten the dark gap between Asokan Brahmi and its supposed origin in the 800 century BCE phɶnician script? The claim of the Piprawa vase legend as representing a pre-Asokan stage of Brahmi has not got universal ac-ra"ceptance. The Porunthal relic too may offer and open up new problems. If the claimed date is true it should represent an intermediate stage which cannot be without visible signs. Apparently it is ancient Tamil. But unless it is proved to be intermediate between Asokan Brahmi and the 800 century BCE phɶnician script, the mostly accepted theory shall not be proved. I tried but could not be sure that it could be regarded as intermediate. I paste below the original legend and the modern Tamil /vayara/. I would have been glad to paste an image of the same word in ancient Tamil. In spite of my inability, it can be said with
 confidence that Raja Raja Chola's va is not like the inital diamond. I have no idea about RRC's ba of which I have no specimen. The basic problem may be attempted from this meagre evidence, I think.
> “Evidences” and views on pre-Asokan Brahmi are a legion – starting with at least K.P. Jayaswal and stretching up to at least the late twentieth century. Going by previous experience I keep my fingers crossed.I wish I am proved wrong.
> Best wishes
> DB
> வயர (or வய்ர).


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