small qerry on OOA theory and Indo-european languages

Sat Jun 20 14:15:43 UTC 2009

Dear prof Pandurangi,

I just posted an answer to the Indology list, and only now see your private mail to me, sorry for the misunderstanding. I post it to the list as well, maybe it's of use to others as well.

The Out-of-Africa model of Homo sapiens evolution is just one side of the coin, but at present the most commonly accepted (I personally have some doubts, but that doesn't matter for now). I don't know where you got your data from, but numbers of 'nearly 40-30 kyr' are wrong. It must be 0.9 million years ago (for the Out-of-Africa of H erectus it's 1.8 myr). That is when archaic H. sapiens (or H. ergaster according to some) replaced H. erectus, in Africa as well as Asia at the same time (not in Europe, where erectus evolved into antecessor-heidelbergensis-neanderthalensis lineage). Because it happened in Africa and Asia simultaneously (except for Australia, which was not 'colonized' before 40 kyr and where no replacement took place, simply because there was no H. erectus in Australia), the other model (Multiregional Model) holds that in fact everywhere an anatomically more modern (read: like us) human evolved in situ from the more archaic form H. erectus. Both models are difficult to prove, due to the lack of fossils, reliable datings and total lack of ancient DNA (older than 10 kyr is impossible, by then DNA is toast). Now, since that ancient movement, evolution continued, in morphology but the more so in culture and language. 900 kyr is a long time, and it is imaginable that several very different groups evolved, each with their own language and habits. Conflicts wiped out several of them, and they left no trace. The main groups of today might theoretically represent some of these ancient groups, I have no problem with that. But the DNA of these groups is expected to be extremely similar, because after all, the ancestral group is the same or similar, it was only time that made them different (also in morphology, I mean the differences in colour, eyelids, hairtype, proportions and so on). One group eventually might have given rise to what 900 kyr later would be called the Indo-Aryans. Certainly they were/are just one of the different cultural groups. The spread of this group, either into India and elsewhere from Central Asia or out of India to elsewhere, and the local replacement of the endemic language group by this former group then has to be interpreted as one group of anatomically modern humans becoming more dominant (in the relevant regions) than other groups. The endemic groups of Europe practically vanished with this 'invasion', but some relics can be traced in the what we call non-Indo-Aryan languages. The language that was spoken by the Neanderthals had already disappeared when H sapiens sapiens entered Europe with the Cro-Magnons around 40 kyr, and has nothing to do with any of the modern languages.

I hope this helps you somewhat,

Alexandra
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Veeranarayana Pandurangi 
  To: avandergeer at planet.nl 
  Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:20 PM
  Subject: Re: small qerry on OOA theory and Indo-european languages

  dear prof. Alexandra,
  thanks for your kind reply. it seems you are interested in this problem. hence I am adressing you alone.
  i did not get "THE out-of-Africa theory versus the multiregional model?" I am facing some difficulties in the theory that says--- man originated from africa and moved out of africa nearly 40-30 k years ago to asia and europe. he branched one group to europe and one to asia and india etc. then how did it happen that both branches have some common language elements. this is my problem. 

   is there any  research material on the OOA theory and Aryan invasion theory? OOA is
  seperately dealt by evolutionists. but has anybody from our indologists  tried to
  do something? to apply the same principals or refute it. this is the difficulty

  thanks again for your interests
  veeranarayana

  On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Alexandra van der Geer <avandergeer at planet.nl> wrote:

    Dear Veeranarayana,

    Are you referring to THE out-of-Africa theory versus the multiregional model??? In that case, your comma moved somewhat, because the first theory developed to explain the rise/evolution of Homo sapiens from Homo erectus at about 1.8 million years ago, far far far before something like an Indo-European language arose.

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Veeranarayana Pandurangi" <veerankp at GMAIL.COM>
    To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
    Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:25 PM
    Subject: small qerry on OOA theory and Indo-european languages

      Dear  friends. I have a small query.
      how Out of africa (OOA) theory handles the problem of indo-european group
      of languages had the european group seperated from that one bound to travel
      to south asia. India and Europe share a language to some extant. it will be
      difficult if they seperated 30000 years ago.

      or is there any material on the OOA theory and Aryan invasion theory? OOA is
      seperately dealt by DNA specialists. but has anybody from our clan tried to
      do something?

      -- 
      Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
      Head, Dept of Darshanas,
      Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
      Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post
      Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.

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  -- 
  Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
  Head, Dept of Darshanas,
  Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
  Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.

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