Vedic l

[hhhock]

Dear Peter,

Vedic .l will no doubt have to designate some kind of "weakened" form  
of .d and thus would be a parallel to Hindi (etc.) .r . But that  
doesn't clarify its phonetic nature. One would like to think of it as  
some kind of retroflex tap with lateral closure; but I'm not sure  
that the descriptions in the early Vedic phonetic texts will be  
helpful in confirming this.

There is an interesting parallel, which might be worthy of  
consideration: At some stage in late MIAr, intervocalic single n and  
l become sounds that are written .n and .l , contrasting with n and  
l, the regular outcomes of initial n l and intervocalic nn ll. Here  
again there is an indication that .n and .l designate "weaker"  
sounds, since they occur in typical positions of weakening, while n  
and l occur in typically strong positions. Some of the peripheral  
NIAr varieties preserve .n and/or .l from these sources, although  
much of NIAr has lost the contrast, partly in connection with the  
"Gangetic dentalization". (On this matter, you might consult Masica's  
Indo-Aryan languages, following up some of the references. Turner,  
too, had some interesting things to say on this which, I believe,  
appeared in his collected papers.) Unfortunately, I'm not aware of  
any phonetic examination of the realization of .n and .l in the NIAr  
varieties that keep them. However, the pronunciation of .n in  
Sanskritic words in Hindi as nasalized retroflex flap may provide  
some clues.

That's about all that I can think of. Maybe somebody else on the list  
has some other or better ideas and/or access to other or better  
phonetic observations.

All the best,

Hans



On 21 Aug 2008, at 15:32, Peter M. Scharf wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> 	I'm describing the phonetic features of Sanskrit sounds for the  
> appendix of LInguistic Issues in Encoding Sanskrit my colleague  
> Malcolm Hyman and I are putting the finishing touches on.  One I'm  
> a bit uncertain about it the so-called Vedic l, sometimes called  
> Marathi l, which occurs intervocalically in Rgvedic dialect for  
> retroflex d.  I'm unsure whether this is an approximant (like l) or  
> a flap like .d (that is the Devanagari d with a dot below as in  
> Modern Hindi la.dakaa).  Gujarati also has intervocalic flap  
> developing from .d.  These flaps are not l's bur r's.  The question  
> is, "Is (or was) the Vedic l a retroflex flap or a retroflex  
> lateral approximant?
>
> 	Although Allen mentions flap-articulation, his references are not  
> probative.
>
> Allen (1953: 73) "they [our authorities] take note, however, of the  
> especially brief and light flap-articulation of intervocalic voiced  
> retroflex stops. Note 2
> [Note 2:SESirIya-SikzA 22. duspfzwaS ceti vijYeyo qa-QayoH svara- 
> maDyayoH (in the RP (see 1.110 above) duHspfzwa = Izatspfzwa and is  
> used to describe the articulation of the semivowels).  Cf. also VP  
> 4.146 qa-QO La-LAv ekezAm; RP 1.52.  For a kymographic study of  
> this feature in Gujarati see t. N. Dave BSOAS 6.673ff.
>
> I checked the reference:
> Dave, T. N. 1931. "Notes on Gujarati Phonology." Bulletin of the  
> School of Oriental and African Studies, vol. 6, no. 3, pp.  
> 673-678.  Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/607202
>
> Dave says only that
> Gujarati M.I. .d > G. tapped r.
>
> It seems to me Allen's references weigh against his conclusion that  
> Vedic l is a flap, but are not absolutely conclusive.  It may not  
> be that all the ancients identified duHspfzwa with Izatspfzwa and  
> the former could indicate tap or flap versus approximant.   
> Alternatively, even if the two terms are identical, they need not  
> distinguish tap and flap from approximant.
>
> One bit of evidence that might settle the question concerns whether  
> there are cases in Indic of the retroflex lateral approximant  
> occurring particularly in the intervocalic environment.  Is the  
> Tamil retroflex l exclusively or particularly intervocalic?
>
> Your help would be appreciated.
> Peter
>
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