stock phrase about women?

Thu Mar 11 03:36:29 UTC 2004

Jonathan Silk wrote:

> Matthew suggested that the meaning of rma 'byed pa = vraNabhaNga may be
> teasing and poking fun in a way that "was somewhat hurtful or
> it would seem to connote "to repeatedly injure [in the same
> manner]" or more colloquially, "to re-open [old] wounds," "to
> humiliate," etc.

> This idea has much to suggest it. BUT: the 8 cited items are supposed
> to be means by which women tempt men.  Is it reasonable to think that
> they do so through humiliation?
A couple of points:  The Chinese equivalent citation given in the YBS is
difficult to construe but does not suggest an overtly sexual connotation --
actually, C may be quite useless here since it suggests that "vandana" was
read instead of "".  How does the Chinese MSBhiV translate the term ?
I am not sure if your specific passage occurs in the Chinese verson, but I
found a passage which includes all the items in your list but also mentions
"plying men with drink" and "picking flowers and plucking fruit" for them
(Cf PED mentioned below).  Could this latter item be the equivalent ?
Unfortunately I do not have time to search through the Tibetan MSBhiV to
On the other hand, there is also a similar expression in Tibetan -- "rma
which is understood figuratively as "wounding through critical words".

> In my off-list discussion with Martin Delhey, he and I seem agreed
> that there is something a bit strange in the Pali reading (at least
> as edited) vana-bhanga, that is with dental -n-, since we would
> certainly expect vaNa from vrana.
I too was puzzled by the dental "vana" form of the Pali -- as a derivative
from "vanati", PED glosses it as "lust, desire", which may be relevent here.
Your suggestion of an early divergence in the understanding of this term
seems plausible.  I also note that PED gives the compound "vana-bha'nga"
under "vana" (wood, forest), glossed as "gleanings of the wood", ie
"presents of wild flowers and fruit" -- as love tokens ?

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge

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