dvija varNa

[Lynken Ghose]

Yashwant and Indology List:

It is not clear from the scriptures what varn.a the Buddha was originally
from, so one cannot state such a thing with certainty. Also, from what
sources are you getting the information that the previous Buddhas were
Brahmin or Ksatriya?

In addition, where are getting the information that the immediate disciples
and leaders of the early Buddhist communities were Brahmin?
According to R. Gombrich's "Theravada Buddhism" (pp. 55-56), there were
people of all castes in the community.

Gombrich quotes a study done on a 5th cent. commentary to the Theragatha and
Therigatha hymns, in which it is clear that the majority of the disciples
were Brahmin, but certainly far from all. Are you concluding, from this
study, that the most of the leaders were Brahmin? This connection is not
made, as far as I know, in Gombrich.

Lynken Ghose

>From: Yashwant Malaiya <malaiya at CS.COLOSTATE.EDU>
>Reply-To: Indology <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
>To: INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK
>Subject: Re: dvija varNa
>Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:40:06 +0000
>
>Swaminathan Madhuresan <smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> >N. Chandran wrote:
> >>> So it is next to impossible for Gautama to have had brahmin teachers
> >>> if he wasn't a dvija.
> >
> >S. Hodge wrote:
> >>Pardon my ignorance, but I though "dvija" meant one was a brahmin.
> >>You were saying (probably correctly) that the Buddha was a k.satriya
> >>earlier so when did this transmutation occur ?
> >
> >For all the three var.nas, except the Shudras, "dvija" (twice-born) is
> >applied. A good study of how this works in N. India:
>
>Gautama Buddha (Shakyamuni) was a Shakya, who were a branch of
>Ikshavakus, thus (always) a Kshatriya. The previous Buddhas were
>either  Brahmin or Khatriyas. Most of the immediate disciples of Gautam
>Buddha were Brahmin, as were a majority of the leaders of the
>Indian Buddhist Sangha.
>
>While Dvija really means any of the three higher varnas, since they can
>wear the upavita, if is sometimes used only for the Brahmins.
>
>Other than Brahmins, very few other communities in Indian have
>traditionally worn the sacred the thread. By the traditional
>brahmaical view, most of the so-called "upper castes" are sachchhUdra.
>It is practically impossible to show with absolute certainty
>that a supposed Vaishya or Kshatriya community was Vaishya or Kshatriya
>in antiquity (That is why some scholars have declared in the past that
>the two middle varnas have ceased to exist). It is also true for several
>Brahmin communities. Thus at the present time, the existence of four
>distinct varnas is  a myth.
>
>Mahatma Gandhi combined the attributes all four varnas. Born a "vaishya",
>he defined dharma like a rishi, commanded a nation like a kshatriya, and
>cleaned toilets like a shudra. Perfectly acceptable. Varnas are no longer
>separated. (Gandhi's son married daughter of a very brahmanical brahmin,
>and it hasn't been considered to be pratiloma.)
>
>Yashwant

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