dvija varNa

[Stephen Hodge]

I don't know if it is my imagination but are this and Swaminathan's
msg are repeats from last year --  I have long since deleted the
original thread ?   Vipaaka of email karma ?

Stephen Hodge

----- Original Message -----
From: Yashwant Malaiya <malaiya at CS.COLOSTATE.EDU>
To: <INDOLOGY at LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: dvija varNa


> Swaminathan Madhuresan <smadhuresan at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> >N. Chandran wrote:
> >>> So it is next to impossible for Gautama to have had brahmin
teachers
> >>> if he wasn't a dvija.
> >
> >S. Hodge wrote:
> >>Pardon my ignorance, but I though "dvija" meant one was a brahmin.
> >>You were saying (probably correctly) that the Buddha was a
k.satriya
> >>earlier so when did this transmutation occur ?
> >
> >For all the three var.nas, except the Shudras, "dvija" (twice-born)
is
> >applied. A good study of how this works in N. India:
>
> Gautama Buddha (Shakyamuni) was a Shakya, who were a branch of
> Ikshavakus, thus (always) a Kshatriya. The previous Buddhas were
> either  Brahmin or Khatriyas. Most of the immediate disciples of
Gautam
> Buddha were Brahmin, as were a majority of the leaders of the
> Indian Buddhist Sangha.
>
> While Dvija really means any of the three higher varnas, since they
can
> wear the upavita, if is sometimes used only for the Brahmins.
>
> Other than Brahmins, very few other communities in Indian have
> traditionally worn the sacred the thread. By the traditional
> brahmaical view, most of the so-called "upper castes" are
sachchhUdra.
> It is practically impossible to show with absolute certainty
> that a supposed Vaishya or Kshatriya community was Vaishya or
Kshatriya
> in antiquity (That is why some scholars have declared in the past
that
> the two middle varnas have ceased to exist). It is also true for
several
> Brahmin communities. Thus at the present time, the existence of four
> distinct varnas is  a myth.
>
> Mahatma Gandhi combined the attributes all four varnas. Born a
"vaishya",
> he defined dharma like a rishi, commanded a nation like a kshatriya,
and
> cleaned toilets like a shudra. Perfectly acceptable. Varnas are no
longer
> separated. (Gandhi's son married daughter of a very brahmanical
brahmin,
> and it hasn't been considered to be pratiloma.)
>
> Yashwant
>