Siva and Vishnu (was: Kinship systems)

[N. Ganesan]

"V.C.Vijayaraghavan" <vijay at VOSSNET.CO.UK> wrote:
<<<
Can you tell me when do the words "Saivam"   and  "VaiNavam" occur
in the Tamil literature. For example do they occur in the Prabhandam
or Nayanmar works itself? or do they occur much later?

As far as I can see these words are the Tamil translations of the
English words Saivism and Vaishnavism. But the Tamil texts themselves
were unaware  of 'ism's. But still it would be interesting to know
when do these two words in the sense of 'isms's appear in the Tamil
texts
>>>

Really surprised at this, because literally hundreds of attestations
of Saivam and VaiNavam are found in Tamil literature of the
pre-British period. I don't know whether you can read Tamil, or
anything about your knowledge in Tamil literature. Tamil texts talk
a lot about sectarian rivalry between different religious groups, and
it is incorrect to claim that "Tamil texts themselves were unaware
of" Vaishnavism and Saivism or, about the nonexistence of frequent
skirmishes between the two. Well recorded in tamil texts and
inscriptions from the Pallavan era.

The problem may be due to incorrect usage of transliteration in
Cologne tamil e-base. A close equivalent of the scheme, first
in Madras university tamil lexicon is employed in the Cologne website,
and Tamil is the only Indian language differing very significantly
from Sanskrit syllabaries. Also, note that many important tamil
texts like Perungathai, Naalaayiram (Alvars' paasurams), their
commentaries, ka.laviyal, shaiva siddhantam works are not yet in
the Cologne ebase.

Vishnu:
Comparing with the tamil, "mAl" = "black" and Vishnu-Narayana is
"mAl" in earliest texts, nArAyaNa seems to come from drav. naL-
(telugu nal-) meanig "black". This preference for black, dark (night)
would have been a factor in the acculturated Aryans recruited
from Dravidian speakers in the differences between Avestan gathas
and Vedic texts: "there there are many other observations, such as
about the preference in Avestan for day-time rituals, as opposed to
Vedic rituals which were performed at night [cf.atirAtra]."
[quoted by Dr. G. Thompson].
Skt. rAtra itself is said to come from Dravidian (tam. irA, iravu,
rAtri), and tamil nAL-mIn2 refers to nakshatrams of the night sky.
OTOH, the idea of the apocalypse seems to get into the bible
from Iran; It will be interesting to see whether 'black as
evil' gets into the bible from Iran?? The RV definitely
talks of "black" enemies and so forth.

Siva:
In the old Northwest, word initial k- has turnes into sh-.
Ziva meaning red as well as auspicious is common in Dravidian.
My suggestion that Ziva is Dravidian can be found in:
a) ziva < *kiva < drav. kema(=good/auspicious/red) (23 Dec 1999)
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind9912&L=indology&P=R11011
b) zimIdin, ziva, zibi (30 Dec 1999)
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind9912&L=indology&P=R13503

Comparable k- to z- words:
i) karko.taka (25 Nov 1999) = drav. "gem-giver"
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind9911&L=indology&P=R17156
ii) zaikya (related to steel) < Drav. *kEku/ tamil cEku
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind0009&L=indology&P=16985
iii)kEkaya, zAkya (Buddha's clan), Ehu Saantamula, and tamil cEku/eHku
http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/WA.EXE?A2=ind0010&L=indology&P=R9925

Though minor in the Rgveda, the subsequent rise
of Shiva and Vishnu as 'great gods' (mahadeva) appears to
do a lot with Dravidians whether they changed to speaking IA
or not.

Regards,
N. Ganesan






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