Kabir's "Ocean Of Passion"!!

[Tein Network]

May 21, 2000


Ramesh said : (On  Kabir's Work For Hindu Temple Library).

"As an Indian who was born Hindu, I had always wanted to find the
UNITY behind the diverse spiritual traditions of Vedic thought.
Neither Advaita nor Dvaita or any other isms could unify Vedic
thought for me, until I stumbled upon my Teacher who introduced me
to ANURAG-SAGAR."

Avi Dey's Discussion :

1. I do not wish to slight you or your "teacher" , Kabir, but can you be
more specific as to what is so unique or impressive about "unity"  in
Kabir's "Ocean of Passion"  ?

How is Kabir's Vision different or similar to that of Rabindra Nath
Tagore's "Gitanjali" for example , a poetic accomplishment perhaps was
influenced by Kabir's works (anyone care to comment on this hypothesis ?)

2. How does "Kabir's Vision " overcomes "dogmas" of the two religious
cultures in which Kabir was brought up, ie, Hinduism and Muslim ?

3. In overcoming the "dogmas" , does this vision also "create" some dogmas
of it's own ?  Tagore's Vision of "unity". as given in "Gitanjali" and
other places of his voluminous writings, he actually tried to put into
practice in the form of a "community" , Shantiniketan.  This "practical
application" in my opinion, failed miserably in India (East) of that time
.

And specially subsequently the "vision" itself deteriorated in the culture
it was produced, replaced by other new "dogmas" imported from the West
(such as, for example, West trained political leaders of India of Tagore's
time who favored West's "Socialism" and Karl Marx's "Communism" and other
"modern" visions from the West and East such as "commercialism" and
especially "mass thinking, mass society democracy" that polarized society
in a destructive way, and in a way that "village democracy" as practiced
in India through thousand of years, throughout all of the difficult
foreign invasions never was such polarization in mass scale ever
produced !).

To my estimation, Tagore's dream still remains a "dream". No doubt
however, the dream survives , in the minds and hearts of many of his
students , individuals, even today awaiting an opportunity to germinate
like a beautiful fragrant flower which Tagore loved so much !  This
"reality" is what is so wonderful and brings hope for future I think !

4. Is there any "evidence" that Kabir attempted to form a "community" to
practice his "vision of unity" or was he primarily a "theorist", which was
essentially what was Rabindra Nath Tagore ?

"practical application" in the quest for "unity of humanity" still awaits
for perhaps a " inspired students" of Tagore (or of Kabir ?) to achieve in
future !

Tagore's trip to Europe in 1938, long after winning the Nobel Prize for
Literature (1913) , and during his life time, in quest for sharing this
vision of "unity"  with the West also failed miserably, as people in
Europe, in Germany particularly, there was another song of "national
glory" that was just coming into tune, that of Adolf Hitler's.

4.A. I Seek comments on "Kabir's"  Vision of Unity.  Was Kabir's Vision
only related to the people of the two cultures of which he was in fact a
part, Hindus and Muslims, or did this vision include other cultures as
well of that time and place ? I would guess that Christianity or other
religions were not a factor in India at that time, although perhaps
Buddhism and Jainism were still a factor in Historic India ? Any evidence
that Kabir came into contact with other such religions such as Jainism and
Buddhism ?

4. B. Seek comments on "practical application" of such a Kabir's Vision as
given in "Ocean of Passion"  ?

Was any practical applications such as building a "community" ever
attempted by Kabir or any of his students subsequently ?


Avi Dey
Coordinator
Hindu Temple Library
Northern Virginia,USA

PS: As I send this to INDOLOGY, Samar Abbas's comments relating to Hindu's
of India just came in response to Professor Bijoy Mishra's comments.

It is interesting that he feels that He feels mainstream "Hindu" is not
"tolerant" as an example who can or cannot enter a Hindu Temple in India.
I would strongly disagree even if I live outside of India. It is politics
of "mass thinking, mass method democracy" that has created whatever is
modern Hindu intolerant society, and not the "gurdians" of Hinduism in
India !

I am taking this discussion to a slightly different path, but in a
multi-cultural society such as India it is realistic to expect that there
is always a certain amount of conflict between the "guardians" (orthodox)
and the "merchants"  (the innovators) of any society ! This is natural,
but it is always the "extremists" who create the brings in the most danger
to any established society. Just look at what happened in Jerusalem in 70
AD when that city and a civilization was totally destroyed along with
the destruction of its main Temple !

[admin note: date changed from Sun, 21 May 1972 04:17:49 -0400]