Harappan 'non-texts'?

[Michael Witzel]

Since the question dealing with change in Chinese characters has just been
dealt with by Steve Farmer, I cut my post and leave in only additional
points:

As so often on the list, the following deals with a side issue (Chin.
characters)  of a side issue (similarity with IV script), as reaction to
someone else's jottings (K.Elst), and with the direction of discussion
having been changed several times; further, it is discussed by two
self-avowed non-specialists (S.Hodge,me), and all of it is outside the
field of Indology: pretty useless, I'd say. So, stop reading here. (Except
for the last section).

.....

But, to return to the point of departure, the Indus Civ.:

>For most of written Chinese, the N / S divide is not relevent -- there
>has always been a official / standard form of written Chinese that
>ignores regional dialects and grammar --

Not the point: China was, by and large (not always!),  centralized, and had
official exams;

But,  was *this* the case in the Indus?  Archaeologists think of  a
half-dozen 'realms' within the IV area.
The diversity in some characters shows just the opposite of centralization
(cf. below)

> In fact it is often not possible
>even to express regional dialects in written Chinese --

I wrote about collocations. And rhyme dictionaries even tell the tale of
differing "pronunciations" i.e. words. (NOT the point here)...

Plus different and many(!) new characters in Vietnam, and also in Korea,
Japan...
Which may just reflect the state of things in the Indus Civ. with at least
2 major dialects/languages used (see my last post and EJVS 1999).


**********

>there is only a limited number of word shapes ...
>...  around 420 odd possible "words" in modern Chinese that are then
>amplified by the
>use of tones (4 in Putonghua) ...
>theoretical total of just 1600 words !!

Yes, in modern N. Chinese (Beijing). And that's an extreme case, with just
CV or CV+Nasal shapes of syllables. Even modern S. Chinese and earlier N.
Chinese have more possibilities.  Add, for ex. southern  -p, -t, -k (as in
Chang Kai Chek) and you get quite a few more than 420...

>if the [IV] script
>worked on a syllabic basis as with Chinese words you might expect
>around 400 -- 600 signs.

Based on what type of language ??

One  that does NOT agree with the 300-odd Panjab loan words in the Rgveda
which are much more complex (certainly not monosyllabic) and whose syllable
shapes would require many  more signs/characters that the theoretical
400-600 mentioned.

e.g. RV loans : udumbala, ulUkhala, emuSa, opaza, kakardu, kaGkata,
katpaya, kaparda,  etc., etc.,

i.e. with the shape:  CV + m, n, t, r  for the more complicated syllable
shapes, just in this limited sample. And with a larger number of C as well
as V  (at least short/long a i u e o plus schwa), and probably a few more
that are not properly represented by Rgvedic pronunciation...

It does not fly.  Starting from the RV representation (which may be not
very good, see Kuiper 1991) we would need:

c. 30 x C-  (plus several CC!)
c.  6 or 12 x  V  (leaving aside accent, not relevant; nasalization?)
many -C   such as -n, -m, -r, -t, .....
which results in many hundreds of possibilities...

Probably, but this is speculation,  the script would have used other ways
to get around such high numbers of syllable signs, say  C(30) + V(12) +
[r], [n], ...
thus, |Ca|, |Ci|, |Cu|...., |Car|, |Cir|, ... |Can|, ... etc. etc.,
And, to remain practical, it would have to use   |C+ V + Ca... + Ca...| for
[CVCC]  and  |CaCaV...|for [CCV...], which still requires a high number of
characters.

But all of this is pure speculation which must be based on actual examples.
Logographs are much more likely, e.g.:

duck in  pond, 1x at Mohenjo-Daro;
goose with head turning back, 1x at Lothal;
bird eating, head down, 1x at MD;
man standing on top of two 'spoked wheels',  1x at Lothal : now that's a
First which "proves chariots at Lothal" for the OIT isn't it?, or the
complex sign, Chinese style:
two superimposed 'forks/brooms' on top of a spoked wheel, all inside a
rimmed vessel, 1x at MD.,  etc. etc.

As I said, about 1/2 of the characters occur just once.

Are we at square one or square two?

========================================================
Michael Witzel
Department of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
2 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge MA 02138, USA

ph. 1- 617-496 2990 (also messages)
home page:  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm

Elect. Journ. of Vedic Studies:  http://www1.shore.net/~india/ejvs
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