Aryan Panzers (pt. 2)

Vishal Agarwal vishalagarwal at HOTMAIL.COM
Sun Feb 13 17:30:54 UTC 2000

----Original Message Follows----
From: Michael Witzel <witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU>

MW: Of course, I never wrote that fair skinned (who is obsessed
here??)Indo-Europeans (!)  crossed the Khyber on their chariots. Very
sloppyreporting. Nor of Indo-Aryans 'overwhelming' the Para-Mundas.
VA: See Post # 255 of January 2000 archives where you have described this
'Acculturation' and have compared it to that of the  comming of Huns etc.
Just using a different terminology (Migration and Acculturation for
Invasion) does not change the net result. What you have described is a clear
case of an invasion by IE speakers and overwhelming of the natives. And
obviously, the Kashmiris etc. are fair skinned compared to the people of the
Gangetic plains. A psycho-analysis of your statement would actually prove
your infatuations and subliminal tendencies, not mine. I also note that the
Erdosy conference took place years before you signed off on this intro. to
Kuiper's volume (quoted in Post #255). It appears that you have indeed
conceded that your translation of the sutra of the Baudhayana Kalpa was
totally wrong. And what else could you do, after Dr. Cardona pronounced his
judgement on the Saraswati list. Using the logic that you used against Dr.
Elst in September earlier in 1999, I could say a lot of things about you,
but I am an educated person who does not wish to indulge in such things. Nor
do I want to tell Indologists of the skewed logic of Hastin and Dwipin that
you have directly inherited from the days of Max Mueller.
Indologists! Do an archive search with Dr. Witzel's name in this list and
you will discover that he started off with a personal and a cheap tirade
against the Hinduja foundation. Beware!
MW:It seems V.A. was thinking of the sturdy (and historically wrong) Amar
Citra Kala chariots??
VA: While accusing others of misquoting you and reading between lines penned
by you, you have fallen into the same trap. And by the way, it is Amar
Chitra Katha, not Amar Chitra Kala!! You blamed Erdosy earlier for changing
Talageri to Telagiri. Who will you blame now?

MW:Sloppiness, misrepresentation, rhetorics, emotions, and politics....
VA: Really? Why not revisit your own posts on this forum or your own

MW:Note, after all, my speech marks. Any half-way intelligent or good-willed
reader will recognize that this is a simile!
VA: Well, more could come if I have time. It is indeed amusing that on one
hand you attribute the errors in your articles to Erdosy who corrected your
'Germanisch English' and on the other, you pontificate others on the nuances
of English. In any case, your language is certainly guttaral.
MW:I invite Messrs.  Wani, Subrahmanya, Agarwal, et al.,  to stand still and
hold their position  in front of quickly approaching (modern) horse race
'chariots', or in front of a line of police on horseback (even without Lathi
charge), and then report back to the list ...  if they are able to do so
after this little experiment.
VA: Report what? That my descendants gave up my language and adopted the
culture of the horse riders? That my family members intermarried with the
horse riders?

MW:(Incidentally, no insinuation but fact,  V. Agarwal is
indeed closely allied to the BJP, as he *himself* told me. His uncles hold
important positions there).
VA: Again, a misrepresentation. You and others in the list should remember
that I save all my correspondence with others and I can reproduce our
private discussion from March-June 1999 (and even later, till September) to
prove my point, whether here or in the court of law. My uncle is involved
with the VHP and I merely offered to use my good offices to help in your
research on Vedic recitations since the VHP has set up 12 Vedapathashalas in
India for the preservations of 12 extant Shakhas. And I offered to do so
despite my intimate knowledge of your publications and the differences in
our opinions. And you also expressed your extreme gratitude for the same and
even offered to give gratis the old recordings that you have!! I never said
that I am a member of the BJP or that I am involved int their or RSS' or
VHP's activities. For that matter, my paternal grandfather was the Mayor of
Delhi (the position had a different title then) in the 1950's for Congress
and my family members consistently vote for the Congress to this day (with
the exception of some). You can ask Dr. Fosse for further clarifications.
And we still have old videos and pictures with Pt. Nehru etc., and gifts
from Chairman Mao of China and so on as prized family possessions. Even if I
were involved with the BJP, your remarks are quite cheap and out of place.
It is like alleging that Dr. Witzel has Nazi tendencies because he is a
German. But such a remark would indeed be an insinuation like yours. Your
remark certainly imply your animus against a major partner of the ruling
coalition of India.

Finally, without reproducing your other uncouth posts etc., I would
certainly express my surprise that the List Master does not chastize you for
posting such long messages!

Differences of opinion are but natural but I see that there are others on
the list (Dr. Deshpande for instance) who behave in a very dignified and an
educated manner in such circumstances.

Of course, I do not expect the narrow minded members of the 'old boy's club'
and 'birds on the same tree' to chastise you. I will let them eat the fruit
of that tree and while I will remain seated in the other tree, looking
around resplendently :-)

I will not participate with any further discussions with you because I have
stopped my dialogue with you.

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