Tamil Heritage (Was Aryan invasion debate)

[nanda chandran]

Selvakumar writes :
 >     The tirukkuRaL, which is a secular literaure, is also considered to
be
 >    an epitome of Tamil literature.

     Why do you say ThirukkurAl is secular literature? Just because it
concentrates
     only on the three aims of life and ignores God? The JainAs too don't
believe in
     a creator God - does it make them secular? Also note Thiruvalluvars
extreme views
     on vegetarianism - can you give me some similar views from the other
secular or
     non-secular poets that you speak of?

     Plus the fact is that JainAs themselves claim the text to be their own.


   >  (such as a notion of Karma etc. which are of dravidian origin as well)

     Is there any Tamizh text older than the Rg Veda or even the Buddha? If
not, how can you claim that karma is of dravidian origin? Or of dravidian
loan words in the Rg Veda?


 >Are they not original literaure of Tamils depicting
 >    Tamils' way of life ? Are not the post Sangam works such as
 >    Silappatikaaram depict Tamils way of life ? and tirukkuRaL Tamils'
 >    outlook and way of life?

     It ofcourse reflects a way of life. For example if you take the kural,
most JaniAs
     from whatever part of India, will feel pretty comfortable with it. Even
if there are a few distinct differences, it is not unnatural when you take
into account the regional diversity of the land. But what makes it truly
distinct from the culture of the rest of India?

   >  Why, show me a body of literature in 'Arya' culture like
   >  Sangam works or even much later poems of Azvaar or some nAyanmaars
called
   >  thEvAram.

In the first place I'm not the one arguing for the distinct identity.
Whatever you've in Tamizh literature - be it prose, poetry or drama - you'll
in most cases find its equivalent in Samskrutam.
But again there's four thousand years worth of philosophical development in
Samskrutam, which can hardly find a parallel in any language in the world,
let alone Tamizh. And this distinguishes the Arya or the brAhmanical works
from the rest. Systematic philosophy - whether brAhmanic or bauddha or jainA
- seems to have been in most part only a brAhmana forte. And this can be
attributed more to the vocation of the caste than to any racial
distinctness.

    >  Anyone who knows the intricate depth of tirukkuRaL, would certainly
be
    > quite amused by your comment that tiurvaLLuvar was 'just the
publisher' :-)

Knowledge of the text doesn't neccessarily mean knowledge of the author. And
apart from
the legend that he was a weaver and a brother of avvaiyAr, I don't think
there's much
information about him for anybody to make substantial assertments about him.
But the
problem is that the JainA tradition thinks he wasn't the author.

 >The systematic philosophic thoughts in
 >    Saiva and Vaishanva tamil literature are born out of Tamils spiritual
 >    experience.

Systematic philosophy is not doctrinal in a religious way, but an effort to
solve the puzzle of the universe based on pure reason or in some cases to
reconcile the experiences of seers with reason.

If there's any significant quantity of this kind of literature in Tamizh,
I'm not aware of it.

  >   Katyanana and Patanjali are supposed to be 'southerners'

But the problem is the Patanjali wrote his Yoga Sutras in Samskrutam. And
all the classic commentaries on it are also in the same language. Even
parallels exist in Tamizh, it hardly points to distinctness.

   >  The 'tamil pattru' is not an issue here. Your posting to which I first
   >  replied and this posting here again show extreme Arya-centric view
   >  (to the extent that you completely dismiss any Tamil or Dravidian
heritage)
   >  and I'm surprised by your denial!

     But Tamizh pattru need not mean a "Tamizh only" supremacist attitude,
but can also
     be raised to a integrating national cultural level.

     > I don't have any stand in AIT, all that I'm arguing here is
     > the Tamils/Dravidians have an independent heritage and culture.

      Your stand only implies the AIT stand. And saying that Tamil brAhmanas
alone are
      dravidians will find no support from any quarter, especially from the
brAhmanas
      themselves. Either accept all Indians to be one and accept your place
amongst the
      seperatist crowd.

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