Paired Horse and PIE breakup

Paul Kekai Manansala kekai at JPS.NET
Sat Nov 7 22:38:35 UTC 1998

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
> As I said, there is pretty good evidence to link Etruscan (and
> therefore Lemnian) to IE, especially to Anatolian/Hittite, consistent
> with 7000 BC as an approximate date of separation.

But I think most linguists do not see any relationship between Etruscan
and IE.

>The linguistic
> vs. geographical terminology is a little confusing of course.  In my
> map for, say, 4000 BC, the "Etruscoids" are in Greece and Anatolia,
> possibly also in the Balkans, the "Hittite/Anatolians" are in the
> Balkans or the Tripolye area (Romania/W.Ukraine), and the "Greeks"
> are in the Ukraine.  It would be some time before everyone was in
> their proper place (3000 ~ 2500 BC or so for Hittite and Greek, 1200
> BC for Etruscan).
> >I wonder also how you explain to
> >yourself the fact that agriculture spread also around the Mediterranean
> >coast from Turkey and Greece as far as Spain and then northwards to France
> >and Britain. Do you maintain that it was by speakers of IE?

Many people explain the spread of agriculture through demic diffusion
originating somewhere in Syro-Palestine or Mesopotamia. I'm sure if you
can put a language tag, but the thrust seems more toward peoples
like the Etruscans, Basques, Picts, etc.  That is, people before IE

> No, that is one of Renfrew's more silly theories.  There is
> sufficient evidence in SW Europe for non-IE speakers, especially in
> Spain with Iberian, Tartessian? and Basque.  Italy and France (apart
> from Basque-speaking Aquitania) are less clear (Etruscan being a
> recent arrival from the Aegean, not a pre-IE survival), but we have
> the Novilara stela from E.Italy in a non-IE, non-Etruscan language,
> and the toponymic evidence for non-Celtic elements in Ligurian.
> Which is another thing that is absent in the area from the Low
> Countries through Germany to Poland: traces of the pre-IE
> inhabitants.  If the LBK/TRB (5500-3000 BC) people were not IE, we
> would expect to find something.

Well, the substratum could come from extinct languages that, unlike
Etruscan, were not literate. Or they were literate and have not left
traces that have been found. I don't think anyone would suggest that
Germanic and Slavic are "pure" languages free of any non-IE influence.
Certainly there are at least some Finno-Ugrian influences even in the
oldest examples of these languages.

Paul Kekai Manasala

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