[Fwd: Turkic-Sumerian Connection
H.M.Hubey
hubeyh at MONTCLAIR.EDU
Sat Nov 7 14:39:46 UTC 1998
Here are some of the words, some of them with additions by me
to the original post by someone else.
--------------------------------------------------
Here are some more additions. In a couple more iterations
we can have more words for everyone to look at.
On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, TIMUR KOCAOGLU wrote:
>( Sm. = Sumerian, Tk. = Turkic, % = the loss of the consonant)
>
>A. Sound equations which CANNOT be recognized easily:
>
>a. Initial consonants: D, g, m, n, S, Sh, %
>
>I. Sm. .D ~ Tk. .y, %
>
>1. Sm. dar : 'spalten, zerschneiden, zerstoeren' (D.71; MSL, III, 100)
> Tk. yar-: 'yarmak' [to break in the middle] (DLT, I, 399; KBI, 523)
>
>2. Sm. dib : 'Band' (D. 83)
> Tk. yip : 'ip' [string, rope] (KBI, 546)
Note that in some Kipchak dialects these words would be /car/ and
/cip/. Furthermore, in d-Bolgharic they would be /dar/ and /dip/.
Here are a few more:
Sm. dir : zerspalten, zerstoren, umwerfen (D.86)
Tk. yir : yirmek (DLT, III, 58)
Sm. dirig : 'to be excessive, to be too much, too many (Grd.341)
'ubervoll sein, voll sein (D.87), diri 'ubergrosss'.
Tk. irig : 'sert, kaba, hasin, gayretli' (KBI,199) iri 'kaba, sert',
'large, huge, voluminous, big' (Rd. 546)
This is the word that showed up in the name Eridanus (i.e. iri) by
Herodotus. And again, Doerfer has reconstructed proto-Turkic as
*d > *d' > c > y > 0. In some cases the initial y >0 in Turkic languages
such as cip/ip, cilan/yilan/ilan, cirt/yirt, cer/yer. These would have
originally been dip, dilan, dirt, der, etc according to Doerfer, and
Doerfer
did this decades before Tuna's book came out, and Doerfer is a big
name in Altaic/Turkic studies. Furthermore the old name for the Yayik
River (Volga/Don?) shows up in Greek as daichs/daix exactly as it should
have been. And it shows up circa 200 BC. Other d-Bolgharic words have
been
deciphered on Runic writings such as daga, dog, der, in addition to one
that was already known, dilom (yilan=snake).
Sm dirra : 'Hulfe' (D.87)
Tk. yarI " (yardim) (help)
Sm. tir : 'country' (MSL,III.87)
Tk. yir : 'yer, toprak, yeryuzu' (KBI, 546)(land, earth)
Sm. tu(5): 'waschen, baden, libieren' (D.206)
Tk. yu(w): yikamak (to wash)
>
>II. Sm. .g ~ Tk. %, .y
>
>1. Sm. gamar : 'wuctig sein' (D.41)
> Tk. agIr : 'aghIr' [heavy] (DLT, I, 52)
>
>2. Sm. garim : 'Fluss-Aue' (MSL, III, 109)
> Tk. arIq : 'Irmak' [river, canal]
Sm. gaz : 'to crush' (Grd.356), gaza (zerbrechen (MSL,III.143)
Tk. ez : 'to crush, to pound', ezme 'crushed, pounded'
Sm geme: 'Magd' (MSL,III.1250
Tk. eke : 'buyuk kiz kardes' (DLT,I,685) (older sister)
Sm. gishig : 'Tur' (D.130), 'door' (EHG,436)
Tk. eshik : 'kapi' (KBI,206) (door)
>III. Sm. .m ~ Tk. .K
>
>1. Sm. mal : (Emesal) 'to stay' (for gal), (Grd. 384)
> Tk. kal-: 'kalmak' [to stay] (DLT, I, 41; KNI, 215)
>
>2. Sm. marun : 'Ameise' (D. 160)
> Tk. karIncha: 'karInca' [ant] (DLT, I, 501; III, 375)
Sm. mir : 'anger' (MSL,IV,35)
Tk. kiz : 'to be angry, cross..."
SM. mu : 'name, fame' (Grd.388, MSL,V,220)
Tk. ku : "un, shan' (DLT,III,212) (fame)
>IV. Sm. .n ~ Tk. .y
>
>1. Sm. nad(9) : 'sich niederlagen, beschlafen; sich lagern' (D. 168; MSL, III,152)
> Tk. yad- : 'yaymak, doshemek, sermek' [to spread, to lay down] (DLT, I, 15)
The name "yayik", or "daichs" comes from this root.
Sm. nigin : 'Summe' (D,171,MSL,III,111)
Tk. yigin : 'yigin,kume, yigilmis'
This word shows up closer to original form in Balkar as nigish.
Sm. nunuz : 'bead' (EHG, 21; Falkenstein, 29)
Tk. yinchu: 'inci,cariye (DLT,I,273)
Sm. nurum : 'Licht' (D.170)
Tk. yaruk : 'isik, aydinklik, parlak' (DLT,I,46)(light)
>V. Sm. .S ~ Tk. .y, %
>
>1. Sm. sar : 'schreiben' (MSL, III, 113), 'to write' (Grd. 403) ~ shar id.
> Tk. yaz-: 'shashmak, yanIlmak, chozmek, yazmak' [to write with
> other meanings] (DLT, I, 192; II, 20, III, 59)
Sm. sig : 'prime, good' (Salonen,22)
Tk. yig : 'yeg,iyi, daha iyi' (good)
Sm. silig : (II2) 'Hand' (D.182)
Tk. elig : 'el' (DLT, I, 72; 4KBI,145) (hand)
Sm. sheg : 'rain' (Grd. 412)
TK. yag : 'yagmak' (to rain, to precipitate)
Sm. shir : 'singen und spielen' (MSL,III,150)
Tk. yir : 'kosma, turku, hava,.."
This word is still 'jir' in Balkar, Tatar, and 'ir' in
kyrgyz. 'Shiir' is poem Turkish and related words mean
poem in lots of Turk* languages.
Sm. zag : 'Grenze' (MSL,III,85) 'border' (MSL,V,70)
'shoulder, outer edge, boundary, border' (Grd,432)
Tk. yaka : 'taraf,yan,civar' (EUSz,280)
Tuna missed "chek" which still means 'border' today in KB.
Szekely (Chek-eli) in Hungary probably means "borderlands"
and Czechs were probably named that way the same way
Ukrain, and Krajina got their names. BTW, in Kipchak
languages, 'yaka' would be more like 'jaga'.
>VI. Sm. .Sh ~ Tk. .ch
>
>1. Sm. sag : 'small child' (MSL, III, 78)
> Tk. chagha: 'yeni dogmush' [new born infant] (YTsz. 48)
Sm. sag : 'schlagen' (D.175)
Tk. chak : 'chakmak, vurmak' (EUSz,58)
The word for nail, "chivi" in Turkish, and "chuy" in KB
seem related. The word was probably more like "chuk"
for nail (although it now means something else in slang).
Sm. zibin : 'Insect' (D.120)
Tk. chibin : 'sinek' ... (i.e. fly)
>VIII. Sm. .u ~ Tk. .kV/a
>
>1. Sm. ubur : 'weibliche Brust' (MSL, III, 145; D. 102), 'teats' (Grd. 426;
Falkenstein, 26)
> Tk. koguz: 'goeghuez' [breast] (KBI, 274; EUSz, 114: DLT, I, 366)
Sm. ud: 'day, time (in general' (Grd.425) ud 'day' (MLS<III,136)
Tk. kun: 'gun, gunes,gunduz'...
Tuna does not mention /o"d/ "to pass".
Sm. umun : 'Gewolk' (D.198,Falkenstein,26)
Tk. kumun: 'men, person, people, ...' (Lessing,501)
Sm. ur : 'to found, to lay foundation..'(D.112)
Tk. kur: 'tertib etmek...' (YTSz.148) (to organize, prepare)
Sm. ur: 'to sweep away...' (Grd.429)
Tk. kuru: "kurek gibi bir seyle atmak' (YTSz,151)(to shovel)
Sm uru : 'to look after, to protect' (MSL,III,146)
Tk. koru: 'korumak' (KBI,272) (to protect)
Sm. ushan: 'bird' (Falkenstein, 28)
Tk. kush : bird
>b) the consonants after the initial vowel of the word: d, d, m, r, sh
>
>I. Sm. d/ ~ Tk. d/
>
>1. Sm. adakur : 'ein opfergefass fuer Getraenke' (Sm. Lw.)(Akk. Hwb. 9)
> Tk. adak : 'ichki kadehi' [wine glass] )Hs. S. 559; Nh. F. 370-8; Muh. 7)
Sm. gid : 'l. entfernen' (D.60)
Tk. id : 'salmak, gondermek.."
Although in most Turk* languages this seems to
be something like "jiber" in KB we still find this
in the form "iy".
Sm. ud : 'Zeit' (D.104)
Tk. o"d : 'zaman, vakit..'(DLT,I,44...) (time)
>II. Sm. d/,. ~ Tk. n/, .
>
>1. Sm. dugud : 'schwer' (MSL, III, 141)
> Tk. yogun : 'kalin, yoghun' [thick, heavy] (KBI, 549; DLT, III, 29)
Sm. kid(2): 'Sonne' (D.149) (il-SHAMASH..)
TK. kun : 'gun, gunes,..' (sun, day)
SM. mud : 'blood' (Grd. 389)
Tk. kan : 'kan..' (blood)
Sm. udu : 'sheep' (Grd. 427), udu, 'Schaf' (MSL,III,111)
Tk. kong : 'koyun, (sheep)
Sm. shid: 'number, voting board' (MSL,V,15); shiti 'Rechnung,
'Zahl' (MSL,III,144)
Tk. san : 'sayi, sayma...' (to count)
>III. Sm. VmV ~ Tk. VKV
>
>1. Sm. amash : 'Schafhuerde' (MSL, III, 145), 'Umfriedung, Stall' (D. 13)
> Tk. agIl : 'aghIl, koyun yataghi' [sheepfold] (DLT, I, 65, 73)
Sm. imma : 'two' (Emesal, (Falkenstein)
Tk. ikki :
SM. umush: 'discernment' (Grd, 428), 'Verstand' (D.108)
Tk. ukush : 'anlayish; (understanding)
>IV. Sm. r/ ~ Tk. z/
>
>1. Sm. bur : 'to spread abroad, to disperse of (a thing)' (Grd. 336; MSL, III,140, 170)
> 'undo' (especially a spell),' 'to make a hole' (MSL, III, 67), buru
'harvest (moun)" (Grd. 336)
> Tk. buz-: 'bozmak, yIkmak' [to demolish, to ruin] (DLT, III, 8)
Sm. gur(5) : 'zerbrechen, zerschneiden,abtrennen' (D.55)
Tk. u"z: 'to break'...
Sm. har :'dig,dig quickly' (Prince,176)
Tk. kaz : dig
Sm. mir: 'anger' (Emesal) (MSL,IV<35)
Tk. kiz: (to anger)
Sm. sur : 'to squeeze, to press out (oil, juice)' (Grd. 408)
Tk. suz : 'suzmek: (to filter, to squeeze out)
>V. Sm. sh/ ~ Tk. l/
>
>1. Sm. ashsha : 'six' (Falkenstein, 41)
> Tk. altI : 'altI' [six] (EUSz. 13)
Sm. tush: 'seat, to sit' (MSL,III,58), 'to dwell (in a place)
Tk. ol : 'bulunmak, kalmak..." (to be)
Sm ush : 'dead, to die' (Grd.431)
Tk. o"l : (die) DLT,IT,38)
This word shows up in both versions in Karachay i.e. aush (to die).
>VI. c. The word endings in ae, g, m, Vr/z
>
>I. Sm. ae. ~ Tk. An.
>
>1. Sm. mae : 'I' (Grd. 386)
> Tk. men : 'ben' [I] (KBI, 309, DLT, I, 20)
SM. zae : 'you' (sing)
Tk. sen :
>II. Sm. g. ~ Tk. ng.
>
>1. Sm. asha(g) : 'field' (Grd. 326)
> Tk. alang : 'alan, duz ve achIk yer' [field, open space] (DLT, I, 135)
Sm. dag : 'daybreak, morning, dawn' (D.43)
Tk. tang : (daybreak, morning)
Sm. kalag : 'to be strong, vigorous, have power' (Grd.349)
Tk. kalIng: 'kalabalik, cok suru, kalin, kesif'
>III. Sm. m. ~ Tk. K.
>
>1. Sm. alim : 'Steppentier, Widder' (D. 13)
> Tk. elik : 'geyik' [deer] (ETY, Ir. 97, II, 90; ....)
Sm. shurum : 'a cattle stable' (D.201)
Tk. surug : 'suru' (herd)
>IV. Sm. CVr/z. ~ Tk. Cr/chV.
>
>1. Sm. dingir : 'Gott' (D. 84), 'god' (Grd. 341)
> Tk. tengri : 'TanrI' [god] (DLT, I, 53, 68)
> 'goek, sema' [sky] (DLT, III, 377)
Sm. dubur : 'Hode' (D.78)
Tk. yumru : 'top gibi yuvarlak' (Mn.Gz.78, v5)..(round)
>B. Sound equations which CAN be recognized easily:
>
>1. Sm. agar : 'lead (metal)' (EHG. 34, 58)
> Tk. agIr : 'aghIr' [heavy] (DLT, I, 52)
>
>2. Sm. azgu : 'neck-stock (for use with animals)' (Grd. 331)
> Tk. asgu : from as- 'asmak' [to hang] 'asgu' [hanger] (Dsz. 342)
> 'asgI', 'asku', 'askI'
>
>3. Sm. bulug : 'Grenze, Grenzegebiet' (D. 31)
> Tk. bulung: 'koshe, bucak, zaviye' [corner] (DLT, II, 371)
>
>4. Sm. di : 'to speak' (Grd. 342)
> Tk. ti-: 'demek' [to say, to speak] (DLT, III, 231)
Sm Tk Meaning
esh es blow
gim kipi/kimi like,as
hum kom Lager, stall
iduga yidig perfume
kad kada knupfen
kash kach speed, run,
ki kI-L make, do
ku ko werfen,lagen,grunden, koymak
kur koru guard, watch,protect
men men ich, I
nammu neme how much, what
sum sun geben, give
te(ga) teg touch, attain
tin tIn Leben, life, breath
u u schlaf, uyku (sleep)
umush yumush hizmet, vazife,werk
ush us verstand,akil
zag sag right side
>Prof. Tuna compares about 165 Sumerian words with 149 Turkic, 7
>Mongolian, and 1 Akkadian words.
>
>Prof. Tuna discussed and argued with his thesis and examples with the
>following scholars:
>
>1. 1971 in Harvard University (Boston): Erica Reiner, Guterbock,
>Herbert Paper, Omeljan Pritsak, Denis Sinor.
>
>3. In 1974: with George Cardona & Henry Hoenigswald [bothIndo-Europeanists],
>John Faught [American Native Languages], Ake Sjoberg [Sumerologist],
>Earl Leichty [Akkadian], Omeljan Pritsak [Turcologist, Slavist].
>
>In conclussion, Prof. Tuna argues that there is an historical link
>between the Sumerian and the Turkic languages in the past, and whether
>they are related or not is not relevant at this point. But, with
>these 168 words, he thinks he has established a sound ground for this
>"historical link."
>
>Any comments?
>
>Timur
Now, the serious question of historical linguistics cannot be avoided.
Everyone talks about 'regular sound change'. But not too many can answer
the question of 'how many'.
This data of Dr. Tuna (who is a linguist with a PhD from University of
Pennsylvania)
cannot be evaluated correctly until and unless we have an idea of how
many
cognates are required to establish "genetic relationship".
Something this important, something that strikes deep into the very core
of
historical linguistics methodology should have shaken any normal scholar
into action.
PS. The Sumerian Dictionary from the University of Pennsylvania is by
Ake Sjoberg.
PPS. I can easily find 30-50% cognates between Turkic and the Sumerian
list
published by Halloran on the WWW, without even trying too hard.
PPPS. If anyone wants more, I have a 20 page paper titled "Story of Life
& Death, and
Love & War" that treats related topics in historical linguistics via
examples of
sound changes in Turkic languages.
Finally, there have been a few people who have done some mathematical
calculations
of how many words can be found to be cognates accidentally or how many
pairs
of cognates are needed to establish geneticity. The numbers are quite
small,
say 3-7 pairs (by people like Cowan, Bender, Greenberg). I have also
made
calculations of this type, much more thorough than these people and even
tested
it via a computer simulation. They can be found in my book,
"Mathematical
and Computational Linguistics", Mir Domu Tvoemu, Moscow, Russia or in
electronic
form from http://www.1stbooks.com. The chapter that deals with these
computations
can be found on my website for free.
Enjoy your readings!
Regards,
Mark Hubey
http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey
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