Paired Horse and PIE breakup

Yaroslav V. Vassilkov yavass at YV1041.SPB.EDU
Wed Nov 4 22:42:01 UTC 1998

On 6 Nov. H.M.Hubey wrote:

>Miziev says that the Soviet scholars control Iranian studies and that
>Iranists control Turkic studies and decide what can be written.

        How do you imagine it is possible for the "Soviet" scholars to
control Iranian studies in the world? Have you heard, by the way, that
the Soviet Union does not exist any more? And what is meant by the words
"Iranists control Turkic studies"? Does these words have any sense?

>the sources (in English) in which these words from Scythian and other
>early nomadic languages have been published and etymologized? would it
>be interesting for everyone to have access to this?

There are many (dozens, hundreds) of scholarly works in English on the
subject, see e.g. J.Harmatta. Studies in the language of the Iranian tribes in South
Russia. - "Acta Orientalia" Budapest, t.I (1951), pp. 261-314;  M.Rostovtzeff.
Iranians and Greeks in South Russia. Oxford, 1922; for the language of Eastern
Scythians - Sakas see fundamental works by H.W.Bailey and R.E.Emmerick, etc.).
But why are you going to limit yourselves with English sources only? If you
are ready to make a revolution in world linguistics and to prove that Scythian
language was not Iranian, how can you, being such a learned linguist, have any
difficulties at all with French or German? And then you will find another
hundred of titles in French (numerous works by G.Dumezil, E.Benveniste
and others) and German (e.g., works by J.Marquart). But I am sure that even
if you read all this it will not shake your belief that Scythians, together
with Sumerians and Etruscans, spoke (Proto-)Turkish.

>This is especially interesting for me for various reasons. Among them is
>a book by Tuna in which almost 200 words (naturally displaying regular
>sound correspondences) between Turkic and Sumerian are shown. In
>addition Miziev has a book in which he etymologizes some Scythian and other words
>as also Turkic.

>> The Hungarians in the middle of the 1st century AD, were always forest
>> hunters, not the steppe pastoralists. The same may be said about proto-Turks
>> until 3rd century BC, when they came to the steppes from their forest
>> Siberian homeland. What could these peoples have in common with the problem
>> that we are now discussing: the emergence of the war-chariot in the western
>> part of the Eurasian steppe in the beginning of the 2-n mill. BC?

>That part sounds fictional considering the 165 Sumero-Turkic cognates.
>I will leave out the fact that Suleymanov says this number is now about

    Olzhas Sulejmenov whom you refer to is no linguist, no historian, no
anthropologist; he is a talanted and well-known Kazakh poet, who tries since
the late 1970-ies in a diletant's way to prove the identity of Proto-Turks
with Sumerians and exceptional role played by them in the world history.
I don't know who are Tuna and Miziev, but if I may judge from your references
to their works they belong to the same genre of nationalistic "science"-fiction.

>>         The word "Turanian" goes back to the Iranian epic, where it is
>> used to designate the Eastern Iranian nomadic tribes. As far as I know,
>> the word has nothing in common with "Turk" and related words.

>That is also false. Romans called the Etruscans Tusci/Tursi. Turan was
>a fertility goddes of Etruscans. Remarkably, /tuw/ is the root for
>birth and begetting in Turkic. That is not all. There is more, even up
>to and including the idea that 'troy' was really 'tur' and the Greek
>language created the consonant cluster. I posted a list of cognates
>between Chuvash and Etruscan at one time.

         A dozen years ago a Russian ultra-patriotic writer made similar
discovery. He is absolutely sure that the word "Etruscan" means simply
"Eto - russkij", that is: "This is a Russian". Why should not the
interested persons pay attention to this idea too?

        But not on this list. It is hightime, I think, for somebody to open,
let's say, "Nationalistic World history discussion club" (with the motto:
Nationalists of all nations, unite!). Let them all come
together there and decide in a friendly discussion, once and for all,
what nation did Adam belong to, what language did Eve speak.
Without us. We shall better stick to the problems of Indology.

        This is my best wish to us all,


Yaroslav V.Vassilkov, Ph.D.
Department of South and SE Studies
Institute of Oriental Studies
Dvortsovaya nab., 18,
St Petersburg, 191186,

Home address: Fontanka, 2,
kv. 617, St Petersburg,
191187, Russia
tel. +7 (812) 275 8179
e-mail: yavass at

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