SV: creation of human kind

Erik Hoogcarspel jehms at KABELFOON.NL
Fri Dec 25 15:12:23 UTC 1998

Sorry for kicking in the allready wide open door of the theodicee. I'm sure
that no one can be convinced of the nonexistence of God if he or she
doesn't want to. The human mind is cunning enough allways to find a back
door when faced with a logically consistent and valid argument.  So let's
not pursue a pointless discussion. I would however like to defend the
atheńst or nontheńst position as a valid one against this front of new age
or old age misty mythical and mystical believers who take their own
prejudice for granted. 
My second point is that the remark that 'God's nonexistence cannot be
proved', which started the discussion, should be replaced with the
observation that this list is not the right place for a discussion about
the existence of God. This is because of the duplex ordo, the seperation of
worldly and religious matters. This is a list for scientific discussion and
science belongs to the world of cause and effect, it is the same for a
hindu(tva), muslim or atheńst.
The arguments in favour of God's existence which I have seen would also fail
the minimal criteria for decent philology, hermeneutics, logic or

Op donderdag, 24-dec-98 schreef Paul Kekai Manansala:

PKM> Erik Hoogcarspel wrote:
PKM>> There are very good reasons to doubt the existance of God.

PKM> You seem to use the term "God" to apply to the Christian concept.

PKM>> A few of them
PKM>> are:
PKM>> 1) there's no place for him in the universe

PKM> Why would there need to be a "place for him."

PKM>> 2) there's no trace of any divine activity

PKM> That's a subjective judgement.  Some people would say that the
PKM> complexity of life is not coincidental and is evidence of creative
PKM> activity.

PKM>>  3) the world shows it's not the result of an intelligent creator,
PKM>>  because nature is a mess

PKM> Again, a subjective and somewhat emotional judegement.

PKM>>  4) The suffering in the world shows that there's no benevolent being
PKM>>  who has any influence

PKM> Here you have the concept of the benevolent God.  It is one thing to
PKM> argue whether God is benevolent or not, another to argue whether God
PKM> exists or not.

PKM>> 5) the concept of God is logically impossible

PKM> Yet, how many famed works of logic actually argue for divine

PKM> I think we need to separate the idea of the Christian concept of "God"
PKM> with the general idea of "God."  In Hinduism, God cannot control the
PKM> of karma, yet God is still seen as all-powerful.  Even in Abrahamic
PKM> religions, you have the idea of a God *incapable* of doing evil.  Yet,
PKM> even here God is still seen as "all-powerful."

PKM> Regards,
PKM> Paul Kekai Manansala


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