[INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses

Madhav Deshpande mmdesh at umich.edu
Mon Mar 30 12:21:23 EDT 2020


This is also an interesting issue.  Among my Indian friends, and in Marathi
newspapers, I see both करोना and कोरोना.  Same thing among Hindi speakers,
with statements like करोना कृपा करो ना.  I have noticed this variation.
Here is the news in the newspaper सकाळ from Pune:
[image: image.png]

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:49 AM victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
wrote:

> The other issue worth debating is the initial syllable  को, which
> should be long based on the script. In many other Indian languages,
> both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, the initial vowel is short:
> କରୋନାଭୂତାଣୁ  கொரோனாவைரசு ಕೊರೋನಾವೈರಸ್ കൊറോണ വൈറസ്  కరోనా వైరస్
> করোনাভাইরাস.  The short vowel seems more faithful to English
> pronunciation and the Latin original (corōna).  Is the spelling in
> Devanāgarī based on the equivalency of o = ओ (ō).
>
> All the Best,
> Victor
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:13 PM John Lowe via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a lot - kṣubhnāti is close, though there is also a morphological
> break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other
> words in that gaṇa where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a
> word, it is all (except kṣubh-nā) about words that don't have nati when in
> compound. The gaṇa as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable
> exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
> >
> > I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native
> phonology. Pāṇini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental,
> but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in
> monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems,
> Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with
> such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
> >
> > Are there any examples of post-Pāṇinian borrowings into Sanskrit,
> preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied
> according to the regular rules?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > John
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> > Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
> > To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
> > Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > I don't know what Pāṇini would have done, koroṇā/koronā, masculine or
> feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single
> words  [as क्षुभ्नादिषु च ८।४।३९. न इति वर्तते। क्षुभ्ना इत्येवम् आदिषु
> शब्देषु नकारस्य णकारदेशो न भवति। क्षुभ्नाति।].  In any case, importing an
> expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one
> hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.
> But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the
> name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as मौन्त स्त्युवर्त
> एलफिन्स्तन.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see मौंट स्टुअर्ट
> एलफिन्स्टन, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as इष्टुर फाकडा. I
> write कॅलिफोर्निया.  No retroflexion there.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
> >
> > That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> > कोरोणा. With the nirukti kora-ūna this would denote something even less
> > or smaller than a bud, no?
> >
> > Regarding Bhāmaha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> > a virus infection, I guess:
> >
> > एकः प्रतिदिनं श्लोकः कोरोणां हि निवारयेत् ।
> > सुप्तिङन्तादिदोषे ऽपि शोधनीये ऽप्रयासतः ।
> > इत्युक्तमवरुद्धेन स्वगृहे कविमेदिना ॥
> >
> > "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> > even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> > corrected."
> > This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
> >
> > Just my two (and a half) cents.
> > Best,
> > Christian Ferstl
> >
> >
> > Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > > compounding.
> > >
> > > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> > >
> > > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > > retroflex, I think.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> > >
> > > Dear Harry,
> > >
> > >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> > >
> > > विभाषौषधिवनस्पतिभ्यः
> > > ८।४।६
> > >
> > > काशिकावृत्ति - वनम्
> > > इत्येव। ओषधिवाचि यत्
> > > पूर्वपदं वनस्पतिवाचि च
> > > तत्स्थान्
> > > निमित्तादुत्तरस्य
> > > वननकारस्य णकार आदेशो भवति
> > > विभाषा। ओषधिवाचिभ्यस्
> > > तावत् दूर्वावणम्,
> > > दूर्वावनम्। मूर्वावणम्,
> > > मूर्वावनम्। वनस्पतिभ्यः
> > > शिरीषवणम्, शिरीषवनम्।
> > > बदरीवणम्, बदरीवनम्।
> > >
> > > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > >
> > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mathew Kapstein: कोरोण
> > >> Others कोरोना
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> > >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> With so many mahākavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> > >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> > >>>
> > >>> कोरोणराक्षसं दृष्ट्वा
> > >>> रामोऽकरोच्चिन्तामेव।
> > >>> क्लीबमूर्खतर एष अथवा
> > >>> हिंसाकोविदः॥
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ཀོ་རོ་ཎ་ཡི་བདུད་མཐོང་ནས།།
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ར་མ་ཎ་ཡིས་བསམ་བློ་བྱེད།།
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ཆེས་ཞན་བླུན་པོ་ཡིན་པའམ།།
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > གནོད་པའི་ཐབས་ལ་མཁས་པ་ངེས།།
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew Kapstein
> > >>> Directeur d'études, émérite
> > >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> > >>>
> > >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> > >>> The University of Chicago
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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