[INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6

HR hr at ivs.edu
Thu Aug 24 12:06:50 EDT 2017


My apology. My computer changed Nagaraj to Natura.

Thank you Nagaraj-ji.

My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?


> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18. one and the same?", 
> 
> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
> 
> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
> 
> nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah nābhāvō vidyatē satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
> 
> and 
> 
> (in fact as a corollary of this),
> 
> Time/creation is cyclic.
> 
> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because nābhāvō vidyatē satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 — 
> avyaktād vyaktayah sarvāḥ prabhavanty ahar-āgame
> 
> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktayaḥ)?
> 
> Howard
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear HR-ji,
>> 
>> noun not adjective.
>> 
>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>> 
>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided. 
>> 
>> महाभूतान्यहन्कारो बुद्धिरव्यक्तमेव च ।
>> 
>> इन्द्रियाणि दशैकन् च प~न्च चेन्द्रियगोचराः ॥ 13\-6॥ 
>> 
>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>> 
>> अव्यक्ताद् व्यक्तयः सर्वाः प्रभवन्त्यहरागमे ।
>> 
>> रात्र्यागमे प्रलीयन्ते तत्रैवाव्यक्तसन्घके ॥ 8\-18॥
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> परस्तस्मात्तु भावो अन्यो अव्यक्तो अव्यक्तात्सनातनः ।
>> 
>> 
>> यः स सर्वेषु भूतेषु नश्यत्सु न विनश्यति ॥ 8\-20॥
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> mahābhūtāni, indriyagoocarāh are part of the vyakta component. ahankārah, buddhih, indriyāṇi are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> pādōsya viśvābhūtāni tripādasyāmr̥tam divi. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> vēdāhamētam puruśam mahāntam ādityavarṇam tamasah parastāt. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scholar, 
>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>> 
>>> Dear Scholars,
>>> 
>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ‘avyakta,’ the ‘unmanifest’ in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Howard
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>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>  
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>> 
>> 
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> 
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> 
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>  
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>  
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>  
>>  
>>  
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  

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