Dear Madhav,

That is what I was suggesting. "Additional Passages" is a CE technical term for everything found in the manuscripts they examined that was NOT included in the constituted text (i.e., all the "star passages" and the various passages contained in each Parvan's "Appendix I"). Sukthankar never intended that passages omitted from the constituted text should be discarded. He wrote, near the beginning of his  "Prolegomena" (p.iv): 

“Since not even the seemingly most irrelevant line or stanza, actually found in a Mahābhārata manuscript collated for the edition, is on any account omitted, this edition of the Mahābhārata will be, in a sense, more complete than any previous edition. It will be a veritable thesaurus of the Mahābhārata tradition."

Thank you, Harry, for pointing out the value of the searchable Sanskrit Library!

Though I can't pursue this topic any further now, I did check the CE of the Rāmāyaṇa and got zero hits for Bhagadatta. But there is an interesting account of the western ocean in the 41st adhyāya of the Kiṣkindha Khānda, and at stanzas 24-25 Prāgjyotiṣa is named as a city of gold on the golden mountain Varāha rising from Varuṇa's deep ocean. Naraka's dwelling there is mentioned (no mention of Bhagadatta). Lefeber, p. 310, has an informative note ad loc. mentioning accounts of a "local legend" that says "there was once a city by that name near a hill in Jamnagar, Gujarat." She also cites a 1918 paper of S. Lévi's saying that "the notion of a western Prāgjyotiṣa is not uncommon."

With all best wishes, Jim Fitzgerald

On Thu, Aug 27, 2026 at 6:44 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu> wrote:
Dear Jim,

     Would a look at the passages omitted from the Critical Edition would also help finding any signs of the transition of the Prāgjyotiṣa from the West to the East?

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Thu, Aug 27, 2026 at 3:16 PM Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Hans,

That is conceivable, but I don't see how that could erase the explicitly western localization of Bhagadatta at MBh 2.13.13 (muraṃ ca narakaṃ caiva śāsti yo yavanādhipau / aparyantabalo rājā pratīcyāṃ varuṇo yathā // MBh 2.13.13). I spoke up, to begin with, after reading Dr. Rosati's post assigning Prāgjyotiṣa to the east alone. Perhaps someone has previously presented the evidence showing Prāgjyotiṣa to be exclusively, or prevailingly, a reference to the East after a certain point in time, post Kalhaṇa clearly, (maybe those cited by Dr. Rosati do that). I am not saying I doubt the observation of Kartunnen I quoted yesterday, but it implies an  assertion of negative fact. I am not going to do it anytime soon, but a close look at any and all "Additional Passages" in the CE of the MBh that deal with Bhagadatta might shed some light on the question. It would also be worthwhile to check on what different vernacular versions of the epic say about him and Prāgjyotiṣa.

Of course, to return to the initial issue, people on either the western or eastern frontier were probably perceived as "speaking incorrectly." That issue has been aired  for the northwest at some length on this forum a time or two, years back.

All the best, Jim Fitzgerald



On Thu, Aug 27, 2026 at 12:03 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock@illinois.edu> wrote:
Dear James,

Another possibility would be that the prāg in prājyotiṣa was reinterpreted as referring to an eastern region.

Best wishes,

Hans Henrich


On Aug 26, 2026, at 17:03, Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Walter (if I may),

Clearly there were at least two important locales called Prāgjyotiṣa; as you suggest, the name does not exclude western locations. If, to extend some of your analysis of the name, it might have been understood as “Early, or Earliest, Light,” then any location at a relatively higher elevation than its neighbors would be a place receiving the light of the rising sun before (prāk) the surrounding area, and therefore suitable for that name.

It might be the saga of Bhagadatta and his elephants that fixes the priority of the eastern Prāgjyotiṣa in the memory of the tradition. My copy of Thomas Trautmann’s book Elephants and Kings is in storage at the moment, but if I remember correctly, he noted a pronounced eastern association with the training and use of elephants. I’ll have to go retrieve the book when I get the spare time.

With all best wishes, Jim Fitzgerald


On Wed, Aug 26, 2026 at 3:24 PM W S <walter.slaje@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Professor Fitzgerald,

Due to my lack of expertise in the epic-Purāṇic tradition, I am unable to engage in any serious speculation. However, off the top of my head, I can think of one possible explanation for how such confusion might have arisen in the said tradition: the original existence of two places with the same name, Prāgjyotiṣa, in the east and west. The confusion of the western city name with the eastern one, and its subsequent assignment to the latter, may have arisen for a reason rooted in the meaning of prāgjyotiṣa.

If the compound were understood literally as 'light in the East', it would naturally be associated with a region in the East. This would also have confirmed the eastern location of Prāgjyotiṣa for those who interpreted it in this way.

Similarly, it cannot be ruled out that the city of Prāgjyotiṣa, situated in the west, was named precisely because the compound could be understood as 'illuminated from the east' (prāgjyotiṣa), as confirmed by our dictionaries. That which is illuminated from the east lies in the west. Given the toponymic coincidence of the two Prāgjyotiṣas, the transfer of the name from west to east - prompted by the rather obvious locative karmadhāraya "in the east" - may additionally have become established and consolidated through legends, resulting in the gradual fading of the western Prāgjyotiṣa from people's consciousness.

Kind regards,
Walter Slaje
Am Mi., 26. Aug. 2026 um 19:22 Uhr schrieb Fitzgerald, James <james_fitzgerald@brown.edu>:
Dear Professor Slaje,

Thank you for this interesting collation. When one reads it and looks too at the assemblage of evidence in Kartunnen’s Yonas and Yavanas in Indian Literature, and at E. H. Johnston’s review of Tarn’s first edition of Greeks in Bactria and India (“Demetrias in Sind?” JRAS, 1939, 217–240) (I am not able to read Rönnow’s “Kirāta” from 1936 [Le Monde oriental, 30, 90–170], to which Kartunnen referred), one wonders how the western localizaton of Prāgjyotiṣa came to be so thoroughly forgotten (completely absent, I believe, from Schwatzberg’s Historical Atlas, which gives only the eastern location).

I wonder how it came about that, as Kartunnen, 347, note 167, observed: “Later on, Prāgjyotiṣa came to be more or less synonymous with Assam, and Assamese inscriptions count Bhagadatta among the royal ancestors, as was shown by Jenkins as early as 1840.” It seems that somehow MBh 5.4.11d’s description of Bhagadatta as pūrvasāgaravāsin outweighed MBh 2.13.13cd’s description of him as aparyantabalo rājā pratīcyāṃ varuṇo yathā (with no variants recorded; but note that for 5.4.11d, 3 of the Malayālam mss. lack this reading in pāda d altogether [M2 has it] and one, M1, has it as a supralineal addition; M1.3.4.5 substitute the names of Hārdikya and Āhuka, drawn from the upcoming 12b [where M3-5 substitute the names Kātha [?] and Śaka] for the moved Hārdikya and Āhuka). As Kartunnen (idem) notes apropos MBh 5.4.11d: “But Assam is not by the sea.” If 5.4.11d did actually refer to Assam, “pūrvasāgara” might describe the Brahmaputra River.

I don't have any answer for my question, just puzzlement.

Regards, Jim Fitzgerald
On Wed, Aug 26, 2026 at 7:39 AM W S <walter.slaje@gmail.com> wrote:
I would like to draw your attention to another source that has been neglected so far, in my perception. It corroborates Karttunen’s argument (2015: 37, note 166) that Prāgjyotiṣa should rather be located in the north-west. The instances from Kalhaṇa quoted below suggest that he and his fellow citizens believed the epic Prāgjyotiṣa to be set in the north. However, it is possible that Kalhaṇa was even aware of a city with that name in that region.
[The translations are Stein’s with occasional supplements]

 

RT 2.147

 

jugopa Gopādityākhyaṃ Kaśmīrendrajigīṣayā |
Yudhiṣṭhiraprapautraṃ hi Gāndhārādhipatis tadā || 2.145 ||
„The king of Gandhāra guarded indeed at that time a great-grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira [I.], called Gopāditya, with a view to vanquishing the king of Kaśmīr.“

 

vasann aprāptasāmrājyaḥ sa tatra tanayaṃ kramāt |
avāpa […] amoghaṃ Meghavāhanam || 2.146 ||
„While residing there [in Gandhāra] without obtaining sovereignty [over Kaśmīr] this [prince Gopāditya] begot in due course a son, Meghavāhana by name, […].“

 

sa yuvā pitur ādeśād vaiṣṇavānvayajanmanaḥ |
rāṣṭraṃ Prāgjyotiṣendrasya yayau kanyāsvayaṃvare || 2.147 ||
yuvā Hultzsch 1915/2013; VB] tatra Stein
„By the advice of his father [Gopāditya], that youth [Meghavāhana] went to the realm of the king of Prāgjyotiṣa who was descended from the race of Viṣṇu, for the Svayaṃvara of [that king’s] daughter.“

 

RT 4.171

 

sa prāviśat suvistīrṇam apathenOttarāpatham || 4.163cd ||
„[King Lalitāditya] entered by pathless tracks the far-spreading northern region (uttarāpatha).“

 

… Kāmbojas (165), Tuḥkharas (166), Bhauṭṭas (168), Darads (169). The wind of the northern region (uttarānila) (170) …

 

śūnye Prāgjyotiṣapure nirjihānaṃ dadarśa saḥ |
dhūpadhūmaṃ […] || 4.171a–c ||
"As the town of Prāgjyotiṣa was deserted, he saw the smoke of incense […]"

 

marīcikāvitīrṇārṇovibhrame bālukāmbudhau || 4.172ab ||
"In the ‘sea of sand’ (vālukāmbudhi), where the mirage produced the illusion of a stream, […]"

 

Note by Stein: „[…] For Prāgjyotiṣa, see note ii.147. The ‘sea of sand’ (vālukāmbudhi) mentioned in verse iv.172, and again in the story related iv.279 sqq., is distinctly placed in the north (see iv. 306), and seems to imply a distant knowledge of the desert tracts of Eastern Turkestan and Tibet.“

 

 

RT 8.2811

 

The entire scene is set exclusively in northern Kashmir, on the border with the land of the Dards. The Dards join forces with rebellious barons from the Kashmir Valley and, with the support of Central Asian Muslims, go to war with King Jayasiṃha with the aim of overthrowing him and installing Bhoja as king.

 

prasthitas tatpramāthāya Śamālais so ’nvabadhyata |
vrajan Prāgjyotiṣaṃ hantum Pārthas saṃśaptakair iva || 8.2811 ||

 

When this [minister of the king, Rilhaṇa,] had set out to destroy [Loṭhaka of the rebels], he was pursued on the march by the inhabitants of Śamālā as Pārtha [had been] by the confederates when he went to slay the king of Prāgjyotiṣa.

 

Note by Stein: „The story of Arjuna’s fight with the ‘confederates’ (saṃśaptaka) is found in Mahābh. vii., xxvii.1 sqq.“

 

Given the context, it seems rather unlikely that Kalhaṇa would have chosen this comparison with Prāgjyotiṣa from the epic if he and his contemporary audience had not situated that city mentioned in the MBh in the wider northern area, as the battles they witnessed actually took place in northern Kashmir. 

 

Regards, WS
Am Di., 25. Aug. 2026 um 22:13 Uhr schrieb Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>:
Dear Madhav,

I wouldn't want to hazard any conjectures about who exactly Naraka and Mura might have been among the foreign rulers in the northwest. Perhaps some historians have some ideas or other pertinent evidence. Were the Kushanas ever styled as "yavana", in coins, inscriptions, or Puranic histories?
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 2:06 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu> wrote:
Dear Jim,

     This is eye-opening to me. I was not aware of the Western Pragjyotisha, and the identification of Naraka with the Greeks. Does this in some way help dating of these passages, if not of the composition of the epic itself?

Madhav
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 10:10 AM Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear colleagues,

It is pertinent to this discussion that there seems to have been a western locus of Prāgjyotiṣa as well as an eastern one. It is mentioned in a portion of Nārāyaṇa's prophecy of future interventions in the terrestrial world at MBh 12.326.82-85, which episodes have associations with western India.

I quote: “At the final juncture of the Dvāpara and Kali Ages, there will be an appearance of me in Mathurā because of Kaṃsa. [82] Having killed
a large number of Dānavas then, who were thorns to the Gods, I shall make Kuśasthalī, which is the city Dvārakā, my dwelling. [83] Dwelling
in that city, I shall kill that annoyer of Aditi Naraka, son of Earth, and Mura and the Dānava Pīṭha.[84] Having killed the preeminent
Dānavas, I shall lead the delightful city of Prāgjyotiṣa, which possesses prolific riches, to Kuśasthalī. [85]"

In an endnote to Kuśasthalī, I write: "326.85. Prāgjyotiṣa was the capital city of the Asura Naraka and the locus of Kṛṣṇa’s killing him (HV 91.53–57). His “leading” Prāgjyotiṣa to Kuśasthalī likely refers to what is described at HV 97.1: “The road to the town of Prāgjyotisha has been made safe once again” (trans. Brodbeck). This entire HV śloka is identical to MBh 3.13.26, though the context in the MBh is one of listing great deeds of Kṛṣṇa. MBh 2.13.13 identifies Naraka (and Mura as well) as Greek rulers (yavanādhipau) who were under the rule of Bhagadatta, “a king of unlimited power, who ruled in the West like Varuṇa.” It seems unlikely that Naraka’s Prāgjyotiṣa is the same as the Prāgjyotiṣa in the far northeast of the subcontinent, in modern day Assam, which is
generally considered to be where the Prāgjyotiṣa governed by the elephant-riding Bhagadatta was located. Bhagadatta is described at MBh 5.4.11d as “dwelling by the eastern ocean.” At the same time, it was in the far north that Arjuna encountered and subdued Bhagadatta in the digvijaya of Yudhiṣṭhira’s Rājasūya, 2.23.13–26. It would seem that in addition to the far eastern Prāgjyotiṣa, there was another one, the “home of the western Asuras” (Hopkins, Epic Mythology, 257; see too 50–51), and that Bhagadatta came somehow to be identified with both."

Best, Jim Fitzgerald
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 8:55 AM Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Patrick,

As usual, M. Mayrhofer, Etymologisches Worterbuch des Altindoarischen, is an indispensable source for linguistic matters (see vol. II, p. 389). Indian primary sources regarding mlecchas and other foreigners have been exhaustively compiled and discussed in K. Karttunen, Yonas And Yavanas In Indian Literature, Helsinki 2015 [= Studia Orientalia, 116]. Check the index and the searchable file which can be downloaded from here: https://journal.fi/store/issue/view/4184

Best
Martin Straube



Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> schrieb am Montag, 24. August 2026 um 14:31:

> Dear All:
>
> A colleague in India who is not a member of this list asked me for secondary works, as well as primary sources, for the concept of “mleccha” in ancient India. The work by Parasher-Sen is well known. But are there others? With thanks and best wishes,
>
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>

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