On Aug 25, 2026, at 15:12, Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Madhav,
I wouldn't want to hazard any conjectures about who exactly Naraka and Mura might have been among the foreign rulers in the northwest. Perhaps some historians have some ideas or other pertinent evidence. Were the Kushanas ever styled as "yavana", in coins, inscriptions, or Puranic histories?
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 2:06 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu> wrote:
Dear Jim,
This is eye-opening to me. I was not aware of the Western Pragjyotisha, and the identification of Naraka with the Greeks. Does this in some way help dating of these passages, if not of the composition of the epic itself?
Madhav
Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and LinguisticsUniversity of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USASenior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India
[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 10:10 AM Fitzgerald, James via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
It is pertinent to this discussion that there seems to have been a western locus of Prāgjyotiṣa as well as an eastern one. It is mentioned in a portion of Nārāyaṇa's prophecy of future interventions in the terrestrial world at MBh 12.326.82-85, which episodes have associations with western India.
I quote: “At the final juncture of the Dvāpara and Kali Ages, there will be an appearance of me in Mathurā because of Kaṃsa. [82] Having killed
a large number of Dānavas then, who were thorns to the Gods, I shall make Kuśasthalī, which is the city Dvārakā, my dwelling. [83] Dwelling
in that city, I shall kill that annoyer of Aditi Naraka, son of Earth, and Mura and the Dānava Pīṭha.[84] Having killed the preeminent
Dānavas, I shall lead the delightful city of Prāgjyotiṣa, which possesses prolific riches, to Kuśasthalī. [85]"
In an endnote to Kuśasthalī, I write: "326.85. Prāgjyotiṣa was the capital city of the Asura Naraka and the locus of Kṛṣṇa’s killing him (HV 91.53–57). His “leading” Prāgjyotiṣa to Kuśasthalī likely refers to what is described at HV 97.1: “The road to the town of Prāgjyotisha has been made safe once again” (trans. Brodbeck). This entire HV śloka is identical to MBh 3.13.26, though the context in the MBh is one of listing great deeds of Kṛṣṇa. MBh 2.13.13 identifies Naraka (and Mura as well) as Greek rulers (yavanādhipau) who were under the rule of Bhagadatta, “a king of unlimited power, who ruled in the West like Varuṇa.” It seems unlikely that Naraka’s Prāgjyotiṣa is the same as the Prāgjyotiṣa in the far northeast of the subcontinent, in modern day Assam, which is
generally considered to be where the Prāgjyotiṣa governed by the elephant-riding Bhagadatta was located. Bhagadatta is described at MBh 5.4.11d as “dwelling by the eastern ocean.” At the same time, it was in the far north that Arjuna encountered and subdued Bhagadatta in the digvijaya of Yudhiṣṭhira’s Rājasūya, 2.23.13–26. It would seem that in addition to the far eastern Prāgjyotiṣa, there was another one, the “home of the western Asuras” (Hopkins, Epic Mythology, 257; see too 50–51), and that Bhagadatta came somehow to be identified with both."
Best, Jim Fitzgerald
On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 8:55 AM Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear Patrick,
As usual, M. Mayrhofer, Etymologisches Worterbuch des Altindoarischen, is an indispensable source for linguistic matters (see vol. II, p. 389). Indian primary sources regarding mlecchas and other foreigners have been exhaustively compiled and discussed in K. Karttunen, Yonas And Yavanas In Indian Literature, Helsinki 2015 [= Studia Orientalia, 116]. Check the index and the searchable file which can be downloaded from here: https://journal.fi/store/issue/view/4184
Best
Martin Straube
Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> schrieb am Montag, 24. August 2026 um 14:31:
> Dear All:
>
> A colleague in India who is not a member of this list asked me for secondary works, as well as primary sources, for the concept of “mleccha” in ancient India. The work by Parasher-Sen is well known. But are there others? With thanks and best wishes,
>
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!DZ3fjg!-RlPqOAPLO9NJpap4bj6CI9EayaZgwNMUodUqqof-I-rMLAZFZ8BphqGtbQXl7Je4glaGBm2qtsW542WjqAPp8pXhEFu$