On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 8:15 AM Satyanad Kichenassamy via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Did anyone mention that today is World Sanskrit Day ?

Le 09/08/2025 à 03:26, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY a écrit :
> Thanks Hans. That is a very good suggestion.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 12:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock@illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting evidence, esp. the Jaina Prakrit one. Could jagri and jigar(u)
>> be variant vernacularizations of Skt. yak.rt, plus additional Prakritic
>> changes (e.g. a > i after palatal, comparable to madhyama > majjihima?
>>
>> Hans Henrich
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2025, at 14:06, Uskokov, Aleksandar via INDOLOGY <
>> indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Curiously skipping arguably the most famous reference of them all, in the
>> very opening of the *Bṛhad-āraṇyaka, *which raises the question of what
>> is often sheer randomness of how ai engines operate.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Aleksandar
>>
>> Aleksandar Uskokov
>>
>> Senior Lector and Associate Research Scholar
>>
>> South Asian Studies Council & Department of Religious Studies, Yale
>> University
>>
>> 203-432-1972 | aleksandar.uskokov@yale.edu
>>
>> "The Philosophy of the Brahma-sutra: An Introduction"
>>
>> https://www.amzn.com/1350150002/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amzn.com/1350150002/__;!!DZ3fjg!7empG3RZB65PWHDWZivLaKrN86ZLoEMwKy9oIFuSdPC7-Wi-CY4O5u-3jVndiUib2RgecbhnxRofluIewH3spp2MW0kH$>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Office Hours Sign-up:* https://calendly.com/aleksandar-uskokov
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://calendly.com/aleksandar-uskokov__;!!DZ3fjg!7empG3RZB65PWHDWZivLaKrN86ZLoEMwKy9oIFuSdPC7-Wi-CY4O5u-3jVndiUib2RgecbhnxRofluIewH3spl0GFnt_$>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 8, 2025 2:58 PM
>> *To:* Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch@gmail.com>; Indology <
>> indology@list.indology.info>
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Claude
>>
>> For whatever it's worth, the DeepSeek AI provided the following textual
>> references:
>>
>> 1. Sanskrit (यकृत् / Yakṛt) – Ayurvedic Texts
>>
>> The liver is extensively discussed in classical Ayurveda as part of the *"Raktavaha
>> Srotas"* (blood-carrying channels).
>> Key References:
>>
>> -
>>
>> Charaka Samhita (चरकसंहिता, ~300 BCE–200 CE)
>> -
>>
>> *Chikitsāsthāna 15/16* – Discusses liver disorders (
>> *yakṛd-dalyudara*, enlarged liver).
>> -
>>
>> *Sūtrasthāna 28* – Lists *yakṛt* among major organs.
>> -
>>
>> Sushruta Samhita (सुश्रुतसंहिता, ~4th century CE)
>> -
>>
>> *Sharīrasthāna 4* – Describes the liver’s anatomical position.
>> -
>>
>> *Nidānasthāna 7* – Diagnoses liver diseases (*yakṛt-plīhodara*).
>> -
>>
>> Ashtanga Hridaya (अष्टाङ्गहृदय, 6th century CE)
>> -
>>
>> *Sūtrasthāna 12* – Mentions *yakṛt* in the context of digestion.
>>
>> Example Verse (Charaka):
>>
>> *"यकृत्प्लीहानमुदरं गुल्मः..."*
>> *("Disorders of the liver, spleen, and abdomen...")*
>> — *Charaka Samhita, Chikitsāsthāna 15*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 2. Pali (यकन / Yakana) – Buddhist Texts
>>
>> The Pali Canon refers to the liver in medical and metaphorical contexts.
>> Key References:
>>
>> -
>>
>> Vinaya Piṭaka (विनयपिटक, Mahāvagga VI.14.6)
>> -
>>
>> Prohibits monks from consuming animal livers (as part of strict
>> dietary rules).
>> -
>>
>> Milindapañha (मिलिन्दपञ्ह, ~1st century BCE)
>> -
>>
>> Compares the liver to a "storehouse of blood" in anatomical
>> discussions.
>> -
>>
>> Pali Jātaka Tales (e.g., Jātaka 319)
>> -
>>
>> Metaphorically uses *"yakana"* in descriptions of bodily suffering.
>>
>> Example Passage:
>>
>> *"Yakanaṃ hadayaṃ kilomakaṃ antogataṃ..."*
>> *("The liver, heart, and kidneys are inside...")*
>> — *Vinaya Piṭaka commentary*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 3. Jain Prakrit (जिगर / Jigara) – Ardhamāgadhī & Śaurasenī
>>
>> Jain texts in Prakrit use *"jigara"* (from Sanskrit *yakṛt*).
>> Key References:
>>
>> -
>>
>> Uttarādhyayana Sūtra (उत्तराध्ययन सूत्र, 5th–3rd century BCE)
>> -
>>
>> Verse 36.75: Lists *jigara* among organs affected by karma.
>> -
>>
>> Sūtrakṛtāṅga (सूत्रकृताङ्ग 1.6.27)
>> -
>>
>> Forbids harming creatures "from liver to bones" (*jigara-aṭṭhi*).
>> -
>>
>> Paiyalacchi (पैयलच्छी, 10th-century Prakrit lexicon)
>> -
>>
>> Defines: *"Jigara = Yakṛt"* (यकृत्).
>>
>> Example Verse (Sūtrakṛtāṅga):
>>
>> *"जिगर-अट्ठी-मज्जाणं..."*
>> *("From liver to bones and marrow...")*
>> — *Sūtrakṛtāṅga 1.6.27*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 4. Apabhraṃśa (जिगरु / Jigaru) – Medieval Jain & Medical Texts
>>
>> The transitional form *"jigaru"* appears in late Prakrit/Apabhraṃśa.
>> Key References:
>>
>> -
>>
>> Bhavisayatta Kaha (भविसयत्त कहा, 8th–10th century CE)
>> -
>>
>> A Jain story describing a king’s *"jigaru-roga"* (liver disease).
>> -
>>
>> Ravidatta’s Medical Works (रविदत्त, ~9th century CE)
>> -
>>
>> Uses *jigaru* in prescriptions for liver ailments.
>>
>> Example Line:
>>
>> *"जिगरु दुक्खु"* ("Liver pain")
>> — *Bhavisayatta Kaha*
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Evolution Summary:
>>
>> 1.
>>
>> Vedic Sanskrit: *Yakṛt (यकृत्)*
>> 2.
>>
>> Pali: *Yakana (यकन)*
>> 3.
>>
>> Early Prakrit: *Yakai (यकइ)*
>> 4.
>>
>> Later Prakrit (Jain): *Jigara (जिगर)*
>> 5.
>>
>> Apabhraṃśa: *Jigaru (जिगरु)*
>> 6.
>>
>> Modern Hindi/Urdu: *Jigar (जिगर)*
>>
>> These references contain the use of *jigara *or *jigaru *from ancient
>> Jain Prakrit texts and Apabhraṃśa texts. The Deśīnāmamāla also lists it.
>> Assuming these textual references are accurate, the word *jigar/jigaru *goes
>> back to Prakrit/Apabhraṃśa ancestry. I wonder if we would still consider it
>> a borrowing from Persian.
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpandee
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 11:46 AM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Rolf,
>>
>> I am not an expert in all these languages. But from the information
>> provided by Open.AI and Claude.AI, it seems to me that the Persian *jigar
>> *is cognate with Sanskrit *yakr̥t*. The reason I am reluctant to think *jagrī
>> *coming from Persian *jigar*, is that such a borrowing does not explain
>> the *ī *at the end of *jagrī*, and then we have to assume that somehow
>> the * i *of *jigar *changed to *a* of *jagrī*. That requires too many ad
>> hoc changes. On the other hand, in numerous modern IA languages, the *y *of
>> Sanskrit is replaced with *j*, and the *r̥ *is routinely pronounced as *rī
>> *in North India. The loss of final Sanskrit consonants is a common
>> feature of all Prakrit languages. Given these considerations, I see more of
>> a clear line of connection between Sanskrit *yakr̥t* and your *jagrī*,
>> than to the Persian word. This is my thinking.
>>
>> Madhav
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 9:57 AM Rolf Heinrich Koch <
>> rolfheiner.koch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Madhav,
>>
>> just learning the Open.ai system, I asked Open.ai exactly the same as you
>> did with Claude.ai.
>>
>> This is the answer (which I cannot fully understand):
>>
>> The Persian word *jigar* (جگر), meaning *“liver”*, has a well-established
>> history within the *Indo-Iranian branch* of the *Indo-European language
>> family*. Here’s the full etymological breakdown:
>> ------------------------------
>> 🔹 1. *Persian jigar (جگر) – meaning: liver*
>>
>> -
>>
>> In *Classical Persian*, *jigar* refers both to:
>> -
>>
>> The *anatomical liver*, and
>> -
>>
>> *Metaphorical qualities* like *courage*, * passion*, and *deep
>> emotion* — much like how “heart” is used in English.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 🔹 2. *Etymology: from Middle and Old Iranian*
>>
>> -
>>
>> *Middle Persian*:
>> -
>>
>> The word appears as *jigar* (same as modern) or * jekar*.
>> -
>>
>> *Old Persian*:
>> -
>>
>> The word is not directly attested, but is *reconstructed* based on
>> related Avestan and Indo-Iranian forms.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 🔹 3. *Reconstructed Indo-Iranian and Proto-Indo-European (PIE) roots*
>>
>> -
>>
>> *Avestan* (East Iranian):
>> -
>>
>> *yakarə* (liver) – a clear cognate.
>> -
>>
>> *Proto-Iranian*:
>> -
>>
>> Reconstructed as *jigar* or *jakar*, derived from an earlier
>> Indo-Iranian form.
>> -
>>
>> *Proto-Indo-Iranian*:
>> -
>>
>> Reconstructed as *yákṛt* (same as Sanskrit *yakṛt* = liver)
>> -
>>
>> *Proto-Indo-European (PIE)* root:
>> -
>>
>> **iék̂wṛ̥* → This is the PIE word for *“liver”*, and it gives rise
>> to many cognates across Indo-European languages.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> 🔹 4. *Cognates in other Indo-European languages*
>> Language Word for "liver" Notes
>> *Sanskrit* *yakṛt* (यकृत्) Exact Indo-Aryan match
>> *Avestan* *yakarə* East Iranian cognate
>> *Latin* *iecur* PIE root preserved (with changes)
>> *Ancient Greek* *hēpar* (ἧπαρ) Different root, not cognate (likely non-IE
>> origin)
>> *Old English* *lifere* → *liver* Possibly unrelated, or influenced by
>> metaphorical use ("life-organ")
>> ------------------------------
>> 🔹 5. *Semantic development in Persian*
>>
>> -
>>
>> In Persian and later Urdu and Hindi, *jigar* became * highly
>> metaphorical*:
>> -
>>
>> *jigar-dil* = “liver-hearted” → brave
>> -
>>
>> *jigar-pāra* (lit. “a piece of liver”) = a beloved person
>> -
>>
>> *jigar khun hona* (“liver bleeding”) = intense grief
>>
>> This is *cultural* — just as the *heart* became the seat of emotion in
>> European traditions, *the liver* was seen in Persianate culture as the
>> seat of * strong emotions*, especially *courage and deep love*.
>> ------------------------------
>> ✅ Summary:
>>
>> -
>>
>> *Jigar (جگر)* is *an authentic Iranian word*, descending from *Proto-Indo-European
>> *iék̂wṛ̥* via *Indo-Iranian *yakṛt*.
>> -
>>
>> It is *cognate with Sanskrit yakṛt*, Latin *iecur*, and Avestan
>> *yakarə*.
>> -
>>
>> The *metaphorical richness* of the word in Persianate cultures
>> (courage, love, pain) is a *later cultural development*, not
>> etymological.
>>
>> Would you like a linguistic family tree of this word across Indo-European
>> languages?
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 08.08.2025 um 16:59 schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>
>> https://claude.ai/share/2fe502db-185f-447d-b742-88e87ff1c17c
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://claude.ai/share/2fe502db-185f-447d-b742-88e87ff1c17c__;!!DZ3fjg!7empG3RZB65PWHDWZivLaKrN86ZLoEMwKy9oIFuSdPC7-Wi-CY4O5u-3jVndiUib2RgecbhnxRofluIewH3spllBBM6k$>
>>
>> Some interesting connections of the Persian word jigar to Sanskrit word
>> taker for liver.
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Dr. R. H. Koch - Germany/Sri Lanka www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/__;!!DZ3fjg!7empG3RZB65PWHDWZivLaKrN86ZLoEMwKy9oIFuSdPC7-Wi-CY4O5u-3jVndiUib2RgecbhnxRofluIewH3spnf2lNt0$>
>>
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**********************************************
Satyanad KICHENASSAMY
Professor of Mathematics
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and GREI (EPHE-Paris and Sorbonne-Université)
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