This discussion of paurushetva and apaurusheyatva of the Vedas is not related to , so a digression from the present relevant topic of primacy of orality while deciding the 'spelling' of certain phonetic/phomemic sequences. 

Prof. Hock, Hans Henrich brought up the pertinent point of primacy of orality while deciding the 'spelling'  and Sri Harry Spier too rightly is focusing his attention on that aspect and trying to know the history / chronology of the shift from orality alone situation to literate (oral-literate dual ? ) situation.. 

गीती शीघ्री शिरःकम्पी तथा लिखितपाठकः ।
अनर्थज्ञोऽल्पकण्ठश्च षडेते पाठकाधमाः ।। ३२ ।।

is from पाणिनीयशिक्षा/सप्तमखण्डः available here.

So , that is the reason , the guru in Pune was apologetic in saying that the sishyas were using the printed version only tentatively. 

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:21 PM alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Mr. Hart,

Mahabharata's  'Shantiparva ( 210/19)  specifically mentions the Apaurasheya " nature of the Vedas.

" Hrrishaya MantraDrashtarO

   Na tu Bedasya Kartaro"

 Na Kaschid Veda Karta cha

 VedaSmarta Chaturbhuja".

SayanaAcharya's commentary on Vedas, too, reflects an identical view

"Josya niswashitam Veda jo VedabhyaAkhilam Jogot. "....

I apologise for my inability to type in Sanskrit.

Any further elucidation/ correction  on the above would be highly beneficial.

Regards

Alakendu Das

From: indology@list.indology.info
Sent: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:04:48
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"


Well, perhaps not entirely apauruṣeya. See the RV:

ए॒तं ते॒ स्तोमं॑ तुविजात॒ विप्रो॒ रथं॒ न धीरः॒ स्वपा॑ अतक्षम् ।

यदीद॑ग्ने॒ प्रति॒ त्वं दे॑व॒ हर्याः॒ स्व॑र्वतीर॒प ए॑ना जयेम ॥ ५.००२.११

On Oct 19, 2023, at 12:13 PM, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Mr. Spier,

What we have learnt from Indological studies, Vedas were never written. We call it "Apaurasheya"... i. e. not written.

The Vedic Mantras came as revealations to the seers( we call them 'Drashta" i. e. one who sees) while in Meditation.

The hymns or mantras were then recited orally and passed on across generations of disciples. who memorised them.

Finally, sage Vyasa arranged a compilation and  divided them among his 4 disciples namely, Poilo, Boishampayan, Jaimini and Sumanta.

Thus we got the 4 Vedas

In the 19th Century, Max Mueller edited the

Vedas.

Regards 

Alakendu  Das. 

From: indology@list.indology.info
Sent: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 19:40:15
To: "Hock, Hans Henrich" <hhhock@illinois.edu>
Cc: McComas Taylor via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"

Hans Heinrich Hock wrote:

Whatever the motivation may be for the spelling with a single <ch> in the Rig Veda (and let’s keep in mind that the “real” Rig Veda is oral),

1) Can someone point me to some article on when and why the Rg-veda was first written down . what script etc.  Was it a British initiative or was the whole or parts written down before the colonial period?  I've seen in a modern Taittiriya Vedashala the students practicing some of their mantras using  written material.  Did the medieval and later Vedashalas also use written materials to teach their students?

2) Is it possible that this  "Rg-veda written spelling gachati etc." is just a reflection of what was written when the Rg-veda was first written down?

Thanks,

Harry Spier

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--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Senior Director, IndicA

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

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