Greetings,
the 2004 paper of mine cited by Andrew is freely available online here
https://books.openedition.org/ifp/7801
« Ideophones in Tamil: a Historical Perspective on the X-eṉal
expressives (Olikkuṟippu Āṟṟuppaṭai) »
Best wishes
அன்புடன்
-- Jean-Luc
https://htl.cnrs.fr/equipe/jl-chevillard/
On 13/11/2022 22:32, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Since Matthew mentioned MIA, I suppose I can share this presentation on
> clausal complements in Middle Indic, which also contains some
> observations on the use of iti in Sanskrit (and eṉ- and its cognates in
> Dravidian languages):
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0>
>
> This is a talk I gave at Chicago in 2018. The work is still unpublished.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY
> <indology@list.indology.info <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
> Indology list archive is a valuable repository of knowledge. But the
> lack of proper search facility makes the information as good as lost
> and we have to repeat questions/discussions that are already in the
> archive. See
> https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html
> <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html>. If a good search feature is enabled, all the past discussions will become accessible.____
>
> __ __
>
> Regards,____
>
> Palaniappan____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology-bounces@list.indology.info>> on behalf of Indology
> List <indology@list.indology.info <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>>
> *Reply-To: *"George L. HART" <glhart@berkeley.edu
> <mailto:glhart@berkeley.edu>>
> *Date: *Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:12 PM
> *To: *Indology List <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>>
> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____
>
> __ __
>
> V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical
> Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that
> to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of
> eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in
> early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl,
> “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti
> cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George
> Hart____
>
>
>
> ____
>
> On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <rajam@earthlink.net
> <mailto:rajam@earthlink.net>> wrote:____
>
> __ __
>
> Dear List Members, ____
>
> __ __
>
> George Hart said: ____
>
> __ __
>
> /// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which
> has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for
> example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in
> various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu),
> finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only
> adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in
> Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// ____
>
> __ __
>
> Just to kindle your memory … ____
>
> __ __
>
> Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil
> Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” ____
>
> __ __
>
> Thanks and regards,____
>
> V.S. Rajam ____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
>
>
> ____
>
> On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY
> <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>> wrote:____
>
> __ __
>
> I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which
> has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu,
> for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It
> occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu),
> noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in
> Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to
> analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure
> anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this
> construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not
> necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due
> to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its
> richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart____
>
>
>
> ____
>
> On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via
> INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>> wrote:____
>
> __ __
>
> I do not know if the question was about /iti/as an areal
> phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a
> Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well,
> he compares Skt/iti/ with Tamil/eṉṟu/.____
>
> Herman____
>
> __ __
>
> Herman Tieken____
>
> Stationsweg 58____
>
> 2515 BP Den Haag____
>
> The Netherlands____
>
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127____
>
> website:hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>____
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Van:*INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology-bounces@list.indology.info>> namens
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
> <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>>
> *Verzonden:*zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34
> *Aan:*Olivelle, Joseph P <jpo@austin.utexas.edu
> <mailto:jpo@austin.utexas.edu>>
> *CC:*indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info><indology@list.indology.info <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>>
> *Onderwerp:*Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____
>
> ____
>
> If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti"
> constructions being an areal phenomena have been
> discussed for many decades. The best person to provide
> information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I
> will see if I can locate any of these older
> publications.____
>
>
> ____
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande____
>
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics____
>
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA____
>
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies____
>
> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced
> Studies, Bangalore, India____
>
> __ __
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]____
>
> __ __
>
> __ __
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via
> INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>> wrote:____
>
> See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and
> Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info
> <mailto:indology@list.indology.info>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in
> > Sanskrit.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Brendan
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brendan S. Gillon email:brendan.gillon@mcgill.ca
> <mailto:brendan.gillon@mcgill.ca>
> > Department of Linguistics
> > McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868
> > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
> > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088
> > H3A 1A7 CANADA
> >
> > webpage:https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHfWYYtZKaf%2FjbNNUQwJhnoaLp8V7WAqPSZGcXaH2xU%3D&reserved=0 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yyUoPrr6Ns2Gi1p2wTJO5kICrdegnoY5Ox6uJigVykk%3D&reserved=0>
> >
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