Friends,

I have not read all the useful references you have mentioned, so forgive me if I am bringing coals to Newcastle. But I recall that in Pāli and BHS texts ´ti is ubiquitous at the end of verses. Might not the MIA angle be worth exploring ? (And please forgive my ignorance if there is well-known work that does this already. )

Matthew Kapstein 
EPHE, Paris 

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From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of George L. HART via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 8:12:25 PM
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit
 
V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George Hart

On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <rajam@earthlink.net> wrote:

Dear List Members, 

George Hart said: 

/// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// 

Just to kindle your memory … 

Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” 

Thanks and regards,
V.S. Rajam 



On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart

On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

I do not know if the question was about iti as an areal phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well, he compares Skt iti with Tamil eṉṟu.
Herman

Herman Tieken
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2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
Van: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> namens Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34
Aan: Olivelle, Joseph P <jpo@austin.utexas.edu>
CC: indology@list.indology.info <indology@list.indology.info>
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit
 
If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" constructions being an areal phenomena have been discussed  for many decades. The best person to provide information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I will see if I can locate any of these older publications.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”.

Patrick




> On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in 
> Sanskrit.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Brendan
> 
> -- 
> 
> Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon@mcgill.ca
> Department of Linguistics
> McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
> 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
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> 
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