On Monday, November 16, 2020, 8:02:44 PM GMT+5:30, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Dean,
another aspect may be helpful:

because I am doing some research on the concept of karman and hell, I see that already in the Gilgit-manuscripts (Āyuḥparyantasūtra) a systematically composed description (Sanskrit-Śloka) connects specific actions (karman) with the rebirth in certain hells.
When someone kills his mother his rebirth takes place in hell 1. If he is a robber in hell 8 etc.
This description is adapted in several later works and found also his way, probably via Burmese monks, in the later Pali-literature and is still observed in Thailand, Sri Lanka etc.

I did not translate the complete Āyuḥparyantasūtra. If you can read Sanskrit (there is also a Tibetan translation) you may find the answer of your question beyond the rebirth in a hell.

Best
Heiner

Am 16.11.2020 um 13:50 schrieb Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY:

Dear Dean,

Not sure if the following is relevant to you query.

The idea that good karman doesn’t invariably immediately lead to pleasant rebirth and bad karman doesn’t invariably immediately lead to unpleasant rebirth is discussed in the Mahakammavibhaṅga-sutta (MN III 207–15, with parallels surviving in Chinese and Tibetan translation).

Later Buddhist systematic thought in the Abhidharma traditions of both the Theravāda and Sarvāstivāda refers to the following categories of karman in the context of determining which of a being's infinite past actions might determine rebirth:

weighty (garuka/guru)
near to death (āsanna)
habitual (āciṇṇa/abhyasta)

something previously done (kaṭattākamma/pūrvakṛta)

See e.g. Vism 601–602 (XIX.14–16), Abhidh-k-bh (Pradhan) 477, Abhidh-k-vy (Wogihara) 719.

In other words, if you have done something really ‘weighty' in this life (killed your mother or father, etc.) you're going to experience the unpleasant results in your next rebirth come what may. If you haven’t done anything weighty (most of us?), then either something done close to the time of death or something done habitually will tend to come into play (there is some hesitation in the sources on whether to give precedence to near-death actions or habitual actions). Failing these two, then any past action from any past life may, depending on a variety of conditions, come into play. The sources add that only buddhas can really see and understand the complex of conditions that govern which karman ripens when. Thus from the perspective of ordinary folk it may appear random, but from the perspective of a buddha it is not.

Best wishes,

Rupert

Rupert Gethin
Professor of Buddhist Studies
University of Bristol

Email: Rupert.Gethin@bristol.ac.uk

On 15 Nov 2020, at 23:53, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear fellow members of the Indology list,

Most people think of reincarnation being a somewhat deterministic process based on past karma.

I read someplace, however, that Tibetans, and maybe other Buddhists, consider the process of assigning one's karma for the next life as something akin to reaching into a box of chips and grabbing a random collection of karmas that set in motion the next life. Thus, it is not so strictly deterministic.

I'm sorry if I'm not describing this accurately.

Can anyone point me to some original sources or commentaries for this idea ?

Also, is this something that is mentioned in Hinduism or other reincarnation-based religions?

Best,

Dean Anderson

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

-- 
Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)