On Nov 6, 2019, at 12:00 PM, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dr.Houben, 

With due respect,If I may just highlight a point ,namely, Dharmashastra is a part of Smriti , or more specifically , a part of Vedanga.Can we term it as "Apauruesheya"? Stuti is "Apauruesheya", but is.Smriti so?

Alakendu Das.

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From: "Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY" <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 19:05:23 GMT+0530
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] origin and discussion that the Vedas are "nitya apaurusheya"

Dear Dean, 

Some quick notes in reaction to your query: 

It is a widely accepted clich�� that "the Vedas are eternal and apauru���eya" and another clich��, equally widely accepted by both traditional and modern, Indian and non-Indian, scholars is that this is essentially (!) THE Indian view on the Vedas. At some point in time, indeed, the "irrational" view of the nitya and apauru���eya Veda became dominant, and the theory of elevated but basically "human" authors disappeared from view in "orthodox" circles (just as the view of an originally basically "human" Jesus Christ advocated by Arius made in the course of time place for more "irrational" positions such as Trinitarianism which implies the an��dinidhanam divinity of Jesus in Christianity?). This means there was an earlier time that the view of a nitya and apauru���eya Veda was not dominant or evident. Even if we limit ourselves to the six so-called "orthodox" schools of Indian philosophy we find that widely divergent views were held about the nature and (extent of) authoritativeness of the Vedas -- and on the question whether the Vedic texts had or did not have authors: S�����khya is severely critical of the Vedas and Vedic ritual (Houben 1999); Ny��ya makes efforts to prove that the Veda is not apauru���eya but pauru���eya: deriving from a Puru���a, namely God (Chemparathy 1983); the school of Aitih��sika interpretation of the Rgveda did not survive but interpreted the subject matter of hymns often in terms of references to human or divine,���historical��� personalities (E. Sieg 1902). Not much of their views is preserved, but it is likely that the authors of the hymns were also regarded as ���historical��� personalities; in Vai��e���ika, although theism overtook later on, there is no early systematic commitment even to God but to the ������is and their knowledge (even Pra��astap��da accepts, apart from pratyak���a, lai���gika and sm���ti, only ��r���a as another category of reliable knowledge, vidy��, in contradistinction to four forms of avidy��) From Vai��e���ika-s��tra (VS)6.1.1 buddhip��rv�� v��kyak���tir vede we can infer the position that the composition of Vedic texts is preceded by thinking, and hence a creation by individuals, esp. the seers, although Candr��nanda���s commentary forcefully tries to interpret the plural as honorific and the reference to the author of the Veda as a reference to Mahe��vara (Houben 2019, pp. 198-199); in the system of Yoga (Yoga-s��tra etc.) the Veda and God have marginal roles, as for the latter i.a. in an optional way to the ultimate Yogic goal (A. Nugteren, God as an alternative, Leuven, Apeldoorn: Garant, 1991). Hence, we are left with only P��rva-m��m�����s�� and Ved��nta as fully and originally committed to the Vedas as sources of ultimate knowledge, an irrational position which M��m�����sakas such as Kum��rila brilliantly tried to defend rationally by arguing for a nitya and apauru���eya Veda. Somewhere in Alexis Pinchard���s Les langues de sagesse dans la Gr��ce et l���Inde anciennes (2009, based on a thesis defended in 2005) the author describes how there is an 'inflation' in the sacred status of Vedic and Sanskrit, an ���inflation��� that can be easily traced back to its earlier stages. At first, the ���secret names or footsteps of the cows��� are preserved in ���human��� hymns addressed to the gods. Subsequently, the entire ���human��� hymns, skillfully composed by trained poets, acquire the status of divine texts which through their metre etc. are demarcated from all other language use, including the comments and explanations of difficulties associated with these divine texts. The next stage is the acquisition of divine status of both the hymns and their explanations, the stage reflected in the dictum mantra-br��hma���ayor veda-n��madheyam ���Mantras and Br��hma���as have the designation ���Veda��� ��� (��pastamba ��rauta-s��tra 24.1.31). The auxiliary disciplines such as grammar, etc., which develop in order to bridge the increasing distance between the language of the Veda and even the polished language of daily life, are the next candidates to receive divine status; the last observed stage is the attribution of divine status not only to Vedic literature and its auxiliary disciplines but to the entire Sanskrit language, a view which we find already clearly formulated by the 5th century grammarian-philosopher Bhart���hari, but which remained in his time far from uncontested (Houben 1996b). This does not detract from the de facto role of classical Sanskrit as a language to the co-production of which Buddhists contributed importantly, a philosophical and literary lingua franca (Houben 2018 ���Linguistic Paradox and Diglossia���).  

Best, 

Jan Houben

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 18:37, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Sorry, I mistitled that earlier thread.

Does anyone know the origin of the term and concept that the Vedas are "nitya apaurusheya", eternal and uncreated by humans?

I have heard it might have originated in Karma Mimamsa.

Also, any information about how it was conceived, discussed and debated would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dean

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--

Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'��tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

��cole Pratique des Hautes ��tudes (EPHE, PSL - Universit�� Paris)

Sciences historiques et philologiques 

54, rue Saint-Jacques, CS 20525 ��� 75005 Paris

johannes.houben@ephe.sorbonne.fr

johannes.houben@ephe.psl.eu

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

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