Dear colleagues,
After hearing arguments of both sides on “Sanskrit can or can not tackle the climate change”, we seem to be much worried about 'what Sanskrit can or can NOT do’, but not about ‘how to tackle the climate change’.
Anyway let me place my point here.
In one of the postings I read a very careful reading of the phrase “Sanskrit can tackle the climate change”. All statements need not be interpreted on their face-value. At the same time, without a meaningful purpose such lAkShaNika expressions are not worth to consider. In such case, we will have to analyse such statements carefully. As some opine it is true that “Sanskrit is just a language as any other language”. So, as a language it can not bring any changes in external climate. However, the statement has something special to offer. That is - Sanskrit has some special characteristics which will help us to bring some changes in climate by bringing changes in human behaviour…..let us examine this how it is possible.
Aspect one : Sanskrit, even as a language, employed in proper way, produces some purifying properties (Dhrma) in thoughts according to Patanjali. (See MahaBhashya). This ‘PURE’ Sanskrit employed in particular way by a team of people can tackle the climate change. Many a times it is tested and attested by conducting Varuna Japa (by chanting of Vedic hymns) (Nobody knows how is this possible) In India it is still practiced. (No matter even if Nonbeliveres may reject it, it happens and believed by people in India and many other places). I am not arguing in favour of this belief. But, academicians can not reject also without verifying if someone (tradition) says so. We should not in fact believe in either side without testing. Nor we can reject either side. Thus, “Sanskrit can tackle the climate change” is still valid for some and invalid for some others. When we (including myself) do not possess the tools to explore such supernormal ideas, we can not say anything if we are honest. Logically also if someone does not have smelling sense, he can not deny the existence of the fragrance in the sandal wood.
Second aspect : As someone said - In India the term ‘Sanskrit’ stands for ‘the thought or knowledge that is embedded in sanskrit language’. With this notion, Sanskrit is always identified with its content for which it is regarded as special. Some languages are meant for some particular purpose. They will have certain impact on the mental behaviour. Sanskrit it is believed that it can influence the mind to develop certain thoughts, which will govern human behaviour towards the objects that we perceive. In this sense, Sanskrit can influence the thought by virtue of its content which will in turn can tackle the climate change through the human behaviour. Some factors are so powerful that can inevitably influence human behaviour without human interventions. In this sense, Sanskrit is said to be an instrument to tackle the climate change, though climate change is not directly achievable.
Lastly : It is just a linguistic expression in secondary sense. Many a times we say “This highway goes to Delhi”, which is ridiculous or illogical if we analyse it. For, way Never moves from one place to another. It helps other to move from one place to another. Notwithstanding this fact, the people say in this way. Nobody objects this. Similarly, Sanskrit helps us to tackle the climate change by its literature. The expression is to be taken in secondary sense.
I don’t see any serious problem here unless we see it with particular colour.
Warm regards,
Shrinivasa Varakhedi
“So, understood in this very specific way, yes, Sanskrit can help us tackle climate change.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but “can help” is not the same as “can tackle”. This means that only mankind can tackle climate change, not Sanskrit, pretty much as Henry David Thoreau’s writings or any other naturalist literature cannot per se tackle climate change, but only mankind can. Bottom line, either way, be it specific or general, Sanskrit cannot tackle climate change.
Again, am I right or not?
Best wishes,
Camillo
Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street, Oxford
OX1 3BG
GROW YOUR MIND
in Oxford University’s
Gardens, Libraries and Museums
So, understood in this very specific way, yes, Sanskrit can help us tackle climate change.
Dear Nagaraj,
I beg to differ. I quote from Dr Ruppel’s answer:
“What is needed to tackle climate change is for people to live moderately and treat their environment (human and non-human) with respect, and for companies to do that even more so. […] Sanskrit - the language - cannot help us with that. Sanskrit literature, and many other literatures and literary cultures all over the world,present us with us with centuries and sometimes even millennia of careful thoughts on how to live happily without greed and with respect for others. There are many texts that furthermore encourage careful inquiry, i.e. the kind that is the necessary basis of climatological research. As such, knowledge of (some of) the thoughts presented to us by Sanskrit literature can indeed help us with climate change, as it can with many other aspects of our modern lives.” [emphasis mine]
Bottom line, Sanskrit as a language cannot help us with climate change and some ideas expressed in Sanskrit literature, as well as in “many other literatures and literary cultures all over the world”, can help humankind in tackling climate change. This means that Sanskrit itself and not even Sanskrit literature can tackle climate change, as much as Henry David Thoreau’s books cannot either, because “[w]hat is needed to tackle climate change is for people to live moderately and treat their environment (human and non-human) with respect”, and not simply read Sanskrit texts.
Again, am I wrong in this interpretation?
Best wishes,
Camillo
Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street, Oxford
OX1 3BG
GROW YOUR MIND
in Oxford University’s
Gardens, Libraries and Museums
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit can tackle climate change
Prof. Antonia Ruppel -ji was very clear in saying that texts in Sanskrit can help human kind to tackle climate change. In that sense, Sanskrit can tackle climate change.
can not ' was not used by her alongside Sanskrit.
Dear Colleagues,
Many thanks, you have provided an answer to my question. Basically, Sanskrit cannot tackle climate change, only humankind can. Or have I misunderstood something?
Best wishes,
Camillo
Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street, Oxford
OX1 3BG
GROW YOUR MIND
in Oxford University’s
Gardens, Libraries and Museums
Thanks, Prof. Antonia Ruppel.
We have an expression in Hindi, आप मेरी मुह की बात छीन ली । You snatched words words from my mouth. meaning you said what I wanted to say.
You articulated it better than I would have.
Dear Camillo, dear all,
What I find most striking in these debates is the lack of definition/understanding of what people mean when they say 'Sanskrit'. The author of the article at the basis of this thread does not seem to have had a good idea of what they or the speakers they talk about were thinking of; as Nagaraj pointed out further down in this thread, Sanskrit *literature* contains numerous passages that might be relevant in the climate change debate.
What is needed to tackle climate change is for people to live moderately and treat their environment (human and non-human) with respect, and for companies to do that even more so. What also is needed is research that leads to understanding of what the factors are that are the most damaging to the environment.
Sanskrit - the language - cannot help us with that. Sanskrit literature, and many other literatures and literary cultures all over the world, present us with us with centuries and sometimes even millennia of careful thoughts on how to live happily without greed and with respect for others. There are many texts that furthermore encourage careful inquiry, i.e. the kind that is the necessary basis of climatological research. As such, knowledge of (some of) the thoughts presented to us by Sanskrit literature can indeed help us with climate change, as it can with many other aspects of our modern lives.
So, understood in this very specific way, yes, Sanskrit can help us tackle climate change.
But to phrase it in this stand-alone way is misleading: knowledge of the thoughts people have thought in the past, of the ways in which people in the past have dealt with very human problems, and of the ways in which those problems actually remain very relevant today: this is what helps us deal with climate change (among other things).
So up with Sanskrit scholarship, up with ALL the humanities! We just need to make this point more clearly and probably more repeatedly; maybe then they'll stop cutting our funding.
Dear Nagaraj and colleagues,
I followed with great interest this discussion, but I still can’t decide whether Sanskrit can tackle climate change for real or not.
What do you all think? Because if this is true, we should all plead for the use of Sanskrit to stop one of the greatest challenges for humankind and many other living beings.
Best wishes,
Cammillo
Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street, Oxford
OX1 3BG
GROW YOUR MIND
in Oxford University’s
Gardens, Libraries and Museums
> I don't defend "German Indology" because I am German. I defend it because German Indology has been good Indology.
-- If you defend German Indology because you are German, there is no anauchitya in it. You might be saying this to say that your statement German Indology is a good Indology is not a subjective or biased statement but an objective and unbiased one. that intention is well taken. But at the same time, reacting or responding to statements about our respective countries/nations as members of those nations has no anouchitya.
Trying to appear as though we have overcame our love for our own individual prestige, prestige of our family, prestige of our educational institute of our affiliation, nation of our origin, nation of our current belonging etc. is unnecessary.
Expressions such as का ते कांता? कस्ते पुत्रः ? suit a संन्यासी, a renounced ascetic , not a संसारी , a family person. Within the reference frame of संसारी , expressions such as का ते कांता? कस्ते पुत्रः ? are not only anauchitya but even infidelity and treachery to that system. In Telugu there is an idiom meaning "dry Vedanta" used in reference to such usages of extreme level ascetic Vedanta used by family people with mundane interests.
-----------------------------
Coming to the word German Indology, I must confess that my understanding of -logy of -logy in the case of Indology is not adavanced enough to distinctly identify German Indology from other strands of Indology. Prof.s Vishwa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee even talk of German Indology of 18th and 19th centuries as their focus. That is too much of a minute nuance to my level of understanding. Some time ago, some people asked me to respond to their posts and responses to their posts. I responded to them saying that the issues such as antisemitism in German Indology (of 18th and 19th centuries) etc. raised by them are not studied by me so well.
Later, a few months ago, I got the opportunity to meet the two professors in India. That was their talk on Mahabharata. They were doing a poorvapaksha of the view that Mahabharata is full of self-contradictions etc.
---------------------------------
Antisemitism might look to be straw man used by the critiques of early or old German Indology to malign it using the Hitler, Nazis, genocide etc.
But 'Hinduism' and Indian nationalism have been greater victims of this straw man based on Hitler, Nazis and genocide because the symbol of swastika associated with 'Hinduism' and the word nationalism in Indian nationalism are repeatedly invoked to stereotype 'Hinduism', Indian nationalism etc. as fascist, Nazi-like, genocidal in tendency etc. The word German Indology is not popular beyond the readers of the publications of Profs Adluri and Bagchee. But the repeated invoking of stereotypes of 'Hinduism', Indian nationalism etc. as fascist, Nazi-like, genocidal in tendency etc is found almost everywhere including popular political discourse. Connection of German Indology with antisemitism may at least give an impression of being reasonable. But why Hinduism should be bad because Hitler used its sacred symbol or why Indian nationalism should be bad because Hitler and Nazis were 'nationalists' or because they used the unscientific racist term 'Aryan', is beyond the comprehension of any reasonable understanding.
------------------------------
Those knowledgeable in German Indology of 18th and 19th centuries and its connection or lack of it with antisemitism might discuss with Prof.s Adluri and Bagchee.
-------------------------------
I for one, am not in a reference frame of का ते कांता? कस्ते पुत्रः ? or what your nation? , what my nation ? not to respond when I see that misrepresentation of Sanskrit, India and Indian culture is being done particularly by those who are viewed in India as those who chose Sanskrit, India and Indian culture as their subject matter out of love and respect for that subject matter.
I am sorry if I was unclear: mine was not a plea to allow a certain viewpoint (please do not assume that because I use that term I think "there are always two sides to any issue" or make any other assumptions about my position or motivation)--mine was not a plea to allow a certain viewpoint; it was a plea NOT to introduce Trump into the Indology list, and to introduce Modi only insofar as his policies directly relate to Indology (Skt, Tamil, etc).
I may well be astonishingly naive, that obviously is something of which I would be the least qualified judge. And astonishment is naturally an entirely subjective experience, so you are welcome to it. But please please let us keep politics off this list. [Again, simply to make overly clear: this does NOT mean that I think discussion of the theories concerning the MBh propounded by whomever are not fair game. Certainly they are, but just because, for instance, the authors of those theories engage in ad hominem attacks does not mean that the proper response is to respond in kind. "Racist" anything stands or falls on its own merits. [this is a different, although not entirely different, perhaps, issue than whether we should acknowledge and take into account the work of persons whose history is absolutely clear -- eg the studies of Wust, or I would venture to say, although foreign to most of the readers of the Indology list, the research of Miyamoto Shoson, who was an incredible Japanese imperialist--one of his prefaces celebrates the day the Imperial Japanese army entered India, the land of the Buddha's birth. This, to be as polite as possible, turns my stomach, but that does not solve the question whether I should, therefore, stop reading his book at the preface. [you might, all of you, take solace in the fact that this proves that at least one person reads prefaces!]]] (sorry, lost count of my embedded brackets!)
Anyway, back to the point (there was one): I am far from the first person to notice that it hardly makes any sense at all to speak of "German" Indology in the first place, but whatever attacks are made against one approach or another, whether the nature of those attacks makes any sense is not to be determined by the motivation of the attacker. Let's sift the wheat from the chaff, and perhaps, after all, some ideas, even if published as scholarship, are not really worthwhile rebutting at all.
Hoping earnestly that I have clarified my ideas, as poor and unhelpful as they may be,
As long as you all allow this hindutva racist to post to this list, mr joydeep, who has regularly attacked "German Indology" over the years, then I will fight with you. I don't defend "German Indology" because I am German. I defend it because German Indology has been good Indology. Joydeep's Indology is a racist Indology. I think that Jonathan and Nagaraj are astonishingly naïve when it comes to Joydeep's ideology. Have they read Joydeep's papers?
Shame on you both! Please read some of Joydeep's papers, and then get back in touch with the rest of us.
--
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
copies of my publications may be found at
--
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
--
--
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
--
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )