A side note, not directly relevant to the terminological issue: 

I think that the question of what Cunda served the Buddha is not one likely to be decided on ideological grounds. Perhaps it is known what the social status of "truffles" was in Ancient North India, and that vis-a-vis the status of pork, but I do not know it, and I think it is a bit incautious for us to assume that this was necessarily a higher-status food just because it is for us (in general). There is, as I recall, considerable philological investigation of the identification of the Buddha's last meal, although I confess that I don't recall what the latest idea is, or whether it has been generally accepted by specialists. (I recall that Oskar von Hinüber wrote about it relatively recently, or at least I think I recall this...). 

As I said, however, this is a separate issue from that of "cleaning up" translations, and we might, in that sense, extend it to questions about tone and style as well: if something is roughly written, even "ungrammatical," is translating into grammatical and even smooth English/German etc. translation or does it too fall under the category you are discussing? (I recently worked on a Buddhist text in which the grammar in Skt was something of a mess, often impossible, although the meaning was quite clear. If i 'fix' it am I improving / raising its level?)

best, Jonathan

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 10:47 AM, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
> Artur's concern is --- 

--- certain terminological substitutes selected by the translators as 'more elegant' effectively remove the early Buddhist sangha from the original socio-economic context of its aims and activities.

In the already classic example: the shift from 'smith' to 'goldsmith', from 'hog's mincemeat' to 'truffles', locates, effectively, the Buddha and his disciples in the world unknown to them. 

In their world Cunda is a village smith; he offers them shelter and a local delicacy: minced pork.

As a village artisan Cunda seems to represent the main social group addressed by the Buddha's message: the people actively involved in the process of change, civilizational change.

As retold by some of the translators, the story drags the Buddha's name into politics, in its local and, consequently, general manifestations.

Cunda, a rich goldsmith (rare truffles in dishes offered to his noble guests) becomes a natural addressee of the Buddha's message. By accepting his invitation, the Buddha confirms Cunda's high status and, symbolically, separates himself from other, less successful members of the community.

There are many other - although not always so evident - examples of such translatorial practices. 

The need to recognize similar textual traps, with their interpretative temptations, is what makes translating the Mahaparibbana-sutta (in my case - into Polish) a difficult but exciting project.

Thanking for your comments, greetings & regards from over-hot Warsaw, 

Artur Karp





2018-08-08 17:49 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>:

Dear Birgit,


Yes, perhaps I had in mind the way in which Pollock's usage has been extended in subsequent scholarship. E.g., Ashley Thompson, "Engendering the Buddhist State," pp. 32-36, "Hyperglossia and the DevarAja," where it is a question, within Khmer usage, of the replacement of indigenous Khmer names and terms with Sanskrit equivalents. And I think this sort of thing was Artur's concern.


And I don't believe that Pollock's usage excluded this extension.


Matthew


Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'études,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of Birgit Kellner via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:36:13 AM
To: indology@list.indology.info

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A terminological question
 

Pollock uses "hyperglossia" for a relationship between languages, though, as a special hierarchical case of diglossia, not for describing individual acts or habits of linguistic choice (which seems to be what the original question was after).


Birgit Kellner


Am 2018-08-08 um 11:01 schrieb Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY:

I don't recall that Pollock limits it to translation. And it definitely refers to moving from a "lower" to a "higher" linguistic register, which is not quite what we mean by "euphemism".


Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'études,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2018 3:51:25 AM
To: Matthew Kapstein
Cc: Artur Karp; INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A terminological question
 
Does Prof. Pollock use it in the context of translation only?

If it is general context of semantic change, 'euphemism' has similarity with this, except that the replaced word refers to an 'obscene', 'inauspicious', 'unparliamentary' meaning hence is considered to be crude or explicit usage. 

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Artur,


The term "hyperglossia," as introduced by Pollock in his

The Language of the Gods in the World of Men,

refers to this phenomenon, though I am not sure how widespread this usage is. Pollock seems to have treated it as a neologism.


If I understand just what you are talking about, James Strachey's translations of Freud -- e.g. his rendering of "das Ich" as "the ego" -- may serve as a modern example. You may therefore find other terms for what you are looking for by digging into the critical literature on Strachey's translations.


good luck,

Matthew


Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'études,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces@list.indology.info> on behalf of Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 2:48:50 PM
To: indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A terminological question
 
Dear List,

[From my main e-mail address]

In my work with the Pali works - original texts and their translations - I come across traces of a peculiar practice.

The translators tend, not infrequently, to supplant plain, ordinary, common terms with their more elegant, subtler lexical equivalents.

There is a Greek/Latin term for this practice - but I cannot recall it.

May I count on your help re?

Artur Karp
Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)
Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw
Poland

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