> But, are there specific discussions of how the protestant-educated Hindus may have seen the missionary emphasis on literary culture (meaning the Bible) as leading to a "new" valuation of the Indian "textual" tradition (by this I refer to both oral and written text), favoring the literary (in the sense of a "written" text)?

                                                                                                                                                                             --Herman Tull

------ Researchers on the history of Telugu language particularly of inscriptions discussed how the 'literacy' of the stone-inscriber and illiteracy of the inscription-dictating-scholar/officer lead to 'mistakes' / irregularities / inconsistencies /hyperstandardisations in the inscriptions. While teaching these to the present post-literate generation , it turns out to be very hard to make the students imagine illetarate scholars and literate non-scholars situation of those times. 

Equating literacy with education and vice-versa is a well established tendency almost without exception among modern Indians. Expressions like 'illiterate masses' are used in the sense of 'ignorant common people' in the modern Indian discourse. This has its influence on the modern Indian's imagination of the pre-modern India. The influence of messianic attitude that it is the responsibility of the knowledgeable to spread his knowledge to all the 'masses', acquired as part of modernity added to this new imagination of pre-modern India, modern Indians frequently allege that the illiteracy of the pre-modern Indian masses was because of the scholars keeping them illiterate with a conspiracy that the masses wouldn't know the secrets of knowledge hidden in the (written) books of the scholars. They refuse to believe that the scholars themselves were illiterate , their 'studies' in their 'schools' were through oral tradition and that there was no tendency, as today, of one pitying others for not having one's knowledge, in that milieu and that is the reason they did not try to 'convert' everyone else into their knowledge. 

My own colleagues in the university /academia refuse to accept that literacy was not an index of development of society or progress of an Individual in pre-modern India. 

With verse particularly metrical verse being gradually looking to be a frightening wild animal from the past to the general modern  Indian students getting educated in the spoken (non-classical) versions of their mother tongue through prose texts, these students take it for granted that the ancient Indian works being in verse was part of the conspiracy that the masses wouldn't know the secrets of knowledge hidden in the (written) books of the scholars. The fact that the books being in verse was part of the culture of the oral societies, having, among other things, the memorising facility, as the purpose, is neither explained by the educators nor attempted to be learnt by the educated.   
 

     

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 1:19 AM, Herman Tull via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
I've been following this discussion with great interest, not the least because I am just now writing a short piece on the effect of the Bible on literacy in India. Of course, the introduction of the printing press into India (to ensure distribution of Indian language bibles) is one obvious route into this. But, are there specific discussions of how the protestant-educated Hindus may have seen the missionary emphasis on literary culture (meaning the Bible) as leading to a "new" valuation of the Indian "textual" tradition (by this I refer to both oral and written text), favoring the literary (in the sense of a "written" text)? I have collected some bits and pieces about this (especially Blackburn's work and Oddie's), but if there are specific studies available, I would appreciate hearing about them.

Herman Tull
Lafayette College

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Another significant aspect she might want to focus on is "textualism" by which I mean:  to conclude about the reality outside the texts, purely on the basis of words in the texts. 

In other words apart from the connections /interface / comparison / study of relative significance - between oral and written texts, a similar focus on connections /interface / comparison / study of relative significance - between texts and the reality of life, rituals, and other facts also needs to be taken up. 

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:25 PM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
In the margin of this thread, or as a very special case, following this article just issued in the Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/strings-attached/article19982142.ece

attention can be drawn to the traditional shadow-puppetry performed in several Bhagavati temples of Palakkad, Malappuram and Thrissur Distr. of Kerala, called Tōlpāvakūttu. See, with a focus on the relationship between oral and literary traditions, the work of Stuart Blackburn, Inside the Drama-House: Rāma Stories and Shadow Puppets in South India, Berkeley: University of California Press, 1996 – e-version here: http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft5q2nb449;brand=ucpress (cf. also Gopal Venu, Tolpava Koothu: Shadow Puppets in Kerala, New Delhi: Sangeet Natak Akademi, 1990; Laurent Aubert, Les Feux de la Déesse: Rituels villageois du Kerala (Inde du Sud), Lausanne: Payot, 2004, pp. 107-121). Here attached the picture no. 2 in the article, showing the manuscripts (in Malayalam script for the one readable) attached to the oral performances (on the basis of the Kampan Rm stanzas, with written and free amplifications, the former called āṭalpāṭṭu, mixing Tamil, Malayalam and Sanskrit), preserved (?...) by the puppeteers.



Le 6 nov. 2017 à 13:19, Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken@hum.leidenuniv.nl> a écrit :

Dear List members,
I am not sure if it is relevant to the topic at hand, but in the introductions of, for instance, the Harṣacarita, Raghuvaṃśa and the Sanskrit plays the respective authors of the texts play with the idea of live performances of royal panegyric, vaṃśas and dramas (see my "On Beginnings: Introductions and Prefaces in Kāvya", in: Bronner-Shulman-Tubb, Innovations and Turningpoints, Oxford-Delhi 2014, pp. 86-108).
Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces@list.indology.info] namens Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY [indology@list.indology.info]
Verzonden: maandag 6 november 2017 8:45
Aan: markasha@gmail.com
CC: indology@list.indology.info
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sources on Relationship btw Oral/Literary Traditions

The periodical "Oral Tradition" might have relevant papers:
See Issues
  • Transmissions and Transitions in Indian Oral Traditions
List of several articles by searching s.v. "India"
Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle

Le 5 nov. 2017 à 20:18, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> a écrit :

It is Lauri Honko, the Finnish Folklorist who uses the word "textualization" in the sense of bringing an oral text into a written form:


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 12:33 AM, Tyler Williams via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
One could also add:

Wilke, Annette, and Oliver. Moebus. Sound and Communication: An Aesthetic Cultural History of Sanskrit Hinduism. Vol. v. 41. Religion and Society,. Berlin: De Gruyter, 2011.

Brown, C. Mackenzie. “Purāṇa as Scripture: From Sound to Image of the Holy Word in the Hindu Tradition.”History of Religions 26, no. 1 (August 1, 1986): 68–86.https://doi.org/10.2307/1062388.

Hess, Linda. Bodies of Song: Kabir Oral Traditions and Performative Worlds in North India. New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2015.

Lutgendorf, Philip. The Life of a Text: Performing the Rāmcaritmānas of Tulsidas. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1991.

Orsini, Francesca, and Katherine Butler Schofield.Tellings and Texts: Music, Literature and Performance in North India. Place of publication not identified: Open Book Publishers, 2015. http://public.eblib.com/choice/publicfullrecord.aspx?p=4386697.

A short but thoughtful overview of some of the difficulties of characterizing the relationship between written texts and oral culture has been given by Orsini and Schofield inTellings... And then of course Pollock compares the relationship between 'literacy' and writing in S. Asia and Europe in Language of the Gods. 

And, at the risk of self-promotion, I discuss these issues in the context of early modern North India in my dissertation, which is available through Columbia U's website.

All best,
Tyler



On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Mark McLaughlin via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Indology mind-hive,

 

I have an undergraduate student who is interested in writing a paper on questions of oral and literary traditions. I would like to solicit your opinions on potential sources for her. Please see her message below for a more detailed delineation of her questioning.

 

Many thanks in advance!

Mark

 
 

Professor McLaughlin,

 

I read through a little more of the Pollock book last night to get a better feel for some questions. I think generally this is what I'm thinking: 

 

What is the difference and relationship between the oral and literary tradition? How has that relationship evolved with the emergence of written texts, vernacularization, and the subsequent privileging of textual sources by the colonial West and the Academy? Who is excluded and/or included by the privileging of one kind of knowledge over the other? For scholars, what kind of nuanced understanding of literacy should be sought or acknowledged given that "to be literate" can mean different things in different cultures? 

 

Let me know if this sounds like what I was talking about the other day! 

 

Best,

Emma


-- 
Mark McLaughlin
Visiting Assistant Professor of South Asian Religions
Department of Religious Studies
College of William and Mary
Williamsburg, VA

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BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

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Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
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Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
 
 
 

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--
Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
 
(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )