द्वाविमौ पुरुषौ लोके क्षरश्चाक्षर एव च ।
क्षरः सर्वाणि भूतानि कूटस्थो।अक्षर उच्यते ॥ 15\-16॥
In creation, there are two Purushas. 1. Kshara = perishable ; 2. akshara = imperishable
The portion made up of all the creatures (living and non-living ) is called the Kshara Purusha; The locus mundi of all the creatures is called the Akshara Purusha.
The second one, the location of all the creatures, is only inferred from the existence of the creatures. All the creatures are Vyakta. Their locus mundi is avyakta.
------------------------------
In modern times, (particularly in Physics and Chemistry or Physical Sciences), Creation is divided into Matter and Energy.
Matter is manifest. Energy is unmanifest while its effects are manifest. To use the Bh G terms , we can say, Matter is vyakta. Energy is avyakta while its effects are vyakta.
BhG's vyakta-avyakta classification of creation is similar to but not the same as this.
Correction;Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the dynamised/dynamisable and dynamising aspects of creationnotPrakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creationOn Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?Dear HR-ji,Sorry for not being able to get back to you earlier than this.Answering questions such as "what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?" in a modern context is a little tricky.We need to be careful not to hastily read the concepts of modern sciences into these expressions/ideas of a different space and time; at the same time, it may seem easy to take help of some modern understandings as analogies, equivalents or modern parlance for these ideas of that space and time.As an analogy, let us take the example of forms of energy such as heat. Heat energy is inferred through its effects but is not directly cognised. Its effects are vyakta (manifest) but it itself is avyakta (unmanifest).There are other classifications of creation in Gita:Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation. For example, the body of a living organism that gets left as a corpse after its 'death', is Prakriti aspect of nature. The 'life' that kept it 'alive' while it was 'living' is an example for Purusha aspect of nature. The 'life' itself is avyakta (unmanifest). Its existence is inferred from the cognisable 'vital' functions of the organism.This idea of Purusha is taken to a viraaT ('cosmic') level as in Purusha sUkta.The self-regulated and self-sustained nature of the cosmos makes it to be perceived as 'living' /as organism. This view is what is reflected in Purusha Sukta. But its 'life' , like the life of a living organism is inferred from its self-regulated, self-sustained,l functions and existence. This 'life' of it is avyakta.On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:Dear Howard, and all
My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good (outcome, end, manifest thing). The most procedural theory we have in the Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga," ---deontology. According to this there are good things to do (duties) and they are justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.
Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice. Hence, we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions by their outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an approximation to the Lord which defines the right, and the good automatically follows as a perfection of this practice. In effect, we instantiate Lordliness as we perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.
As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But it can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world devoted to It.
I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:
"Bhagavad Gītā: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories"
Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:
"Patañjali’s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy"
Hope this helps, and best wishes,
Shyam
Shyam Ranganathan
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto
On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
Thank you Naturaj-ji.
My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?
On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear HR-ji,
If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of 8.18. one and the same?",
then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
Whereas the 'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear HR-ji,
The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah nābhāvō vidyatē satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
and
(in fact as a corollary of this),
Time/creation is cyclic.
Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because nābhāvō vidyatē satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah)
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 —avyaktād vyaktayah sarvāḥ prabhavanty ahar-āgame
How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktayaḥ)?
Howard
On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear HR-ji,
noun not adjective.
Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower" is divided.
महाभूतान्यहन्कारो बुद्धिरव्यक्तमेव च ।
इन्द्रियाणि दशैकन् च प~न्च चेन्द्रियगोचराः ॥ 13\-6॥
Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
अव्यक्ताद् व्यक्तयः सर्वाः प्रभवन्त्यहरागमे ।
रात्र्यागमे प्रलीयन्ते तत्रैवाव्यक्तसन्घके ॥ 8\-18॥
परस्तस्मात्तु भावो अन्यो अव्यक्तो अव्यक्तात्सनातनः ।
यः स सर्वेषु भूतेषु नश्यत्सु न विनश्यति ॥ 8\-20॥
The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
mahābhūtāni, indriyagoocarāh are part of the vyakta component. ahankārah, buddhih, indriyāṇi are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta.
This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as
pādōsya viśvābhūtāni tripādasyāmr̥tam divi.
vēdāhamētam puruśam mahāntam ādityavarṇam tamasah parastāt.
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:
Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
Howard
On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas@rediffmail.com > wrote:
Scholar,The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.Alakendu Ds
Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
Dear Scholars,
I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ‘avyakta,’ the ‘unmanifest’ in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
Thanks,
Howard
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Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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Shyam Ranganathan
MA,MA, PhD
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto
The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
Patañjali`s Yoga Sūtras (Translation, Edition and Commentary)
Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin Concepts
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http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )