On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:Dear HR-ji,If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of 8.18. one and the same?",then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.Whereas the 'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:Dear HR-ji,The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah nābhāvō vidyatē satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)and(in fact as a corollary of this),Time/creation is cyclic.Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because nābhāvō vidyatē satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah)On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 —avyaktād vyaktayah sarvāḥ prabhavanty ahar-āgameHow would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktayaḥ)?HowardOn Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:Dear HR-ji,noun not adjective.Yes, that is what I was about to point out.In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower" is divided.महाभूतान्यहन्कारो बुद्धिरव्यक्तमेव च ।
इन्द्रियाणि दशैकन् च प~न्च चेन्द्रियगोचराः ॥ 13\-6॥Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20अव्यक्ताद् व्यक्तयः सर्वाः प्रभवन्त्यहरागमे ।
रात्र्यागमे प्रलीयन्ते तत्रैवाव्यक्तसन्घके ॥ 8\-18॥
परस्तस्मात्तु भावो अन्यो अव्यक्तो अव्यक्तात्सनातनः ।
यः स सर्वेषु भूतेषु नश्यत्सु न विनश्यति ॥ 8\-20॥
The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
mahābhūtāni, indriyagoocarāh are part of the vyakta component. ahankārah, buddhih, indriyāṇi are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta.
This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as
pādōsya viśvābhūtāni tripādasyāmr̥tam divi.
vēdāhamētam puruśam mahāntam ādityavarṇam tamasah parastāt.
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info> wrote:Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.HowardOn Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas@rediffmail.com > wrote:Scholar,The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.Alakendu Ds
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From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
Dear Scholars,
I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ‘avyakta,’ the ‘unmanifest’ in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
Thanks,
Howard
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http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
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http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )--Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, MaharashtraBoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, KeralaFormer Senior Professor of Cultural StudiesFLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )