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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Article about the politics surrounding indology at the
IHRC (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
2. Re: Article about the politics surrounding indology at the
IHRC (George Thompson)
3. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Nagaraj Paturi)
4. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Nagaraj Paturi)
5. request (Dan Lusthaus)
6. request (Nagaraj Paturi)
7. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Arlo Griffiths)
8. Re: request (Dan Lusthaus)
9. Re: request (Dan Lusthaus)
10. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Dominik Wujastyk)
11. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Valerie Roebuck)
12. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Christophe Vielle)
13. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Jonathan Silk)
14. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Dominik Wujastyk)
15. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Simon Brodbeck)
16. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Patrick Olivelle)
17. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Shyam Ranganathan)
18. Re: prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name (Dominik Wujastyk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 15:43:46 -0700
From: Luis Gonzalez-Reimann <reimann@berkeley.edu>
To: indology@list.indology.info
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Article about the politics surrounding
indology at the IHRC
Message-ID: <5580A6A2.9070008@berkeley.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
Dear all,
As part of this thread, the clear differences between the IVC and the
culture of the /Rg Veda/ have been briefly mentioned. Veeranarayana
Pandurangi brought up another issue, the genetic evidence regarding the
entrance of peoples into India during the Rgvedic period. He attached an
article (Metspalu et al.) which, he said, "disproves the influx of
people into India."
In a new article called "Population Genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia
(Allentoft et al.)," published in /Nature/ only five day ago, the
authors conclude that their "analyses support that migrations during the
Early Bronze Age is a probable scenario for the spread of Indo-European
languages." This goes in the opposite direction of the article by
Metspalu et al., and gives strong genetic support to the notion of an
influx into the Sub Continent between 3000-1000 BCE. The authors of the
new article used a very large data set for their study.
Here is the abstract.
The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000?1000 BC) was a period of major
cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes
resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations,
potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain
phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods
to sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across
Eurasia. We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period
involving large-scale population migrations and replacements,
responsible for shaping major parts of present-day demographic structure
in both Europe and Asia. Our findings are consistent with the
hypothesized spread of Indo-European languages during the Early Bronze
Age. We also demonstrate that light skin pigmentation in Europeans was
already present at high frequency in the Bronze Age, but not lactose
tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of positive selection on
lactose tolerance than previously thought.
And this is the link to the article:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/pdf/nature14507.pdf
Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:25:23 -0400
From: George Thompson <gthomgt@gmail.com>
To: Luis Gonzalez-Reimann <reimann@berkeley.edu>
Cc: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Article about the politics surrounding
indology at the IHRC
Message-ID:
<CAP1Y1zt2-LnH2zWNRBGV2NNfJgO-u=DK+09FjcJL3Hx0C-ZeVA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Luis,
Thanks for this reference.
George
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Luis Gonzalez-Reimann <reimann@berkeley.edu
> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> As part of this thread, the clear differences between the IVC and the
> culture of the *Rg Veda* have been briefly mentioned. Veeranarayana
> Pandurangi brought up another issue, the genetic evidence regarding the
> entrance of peoples into India during the Rgvedic period. He attached an
> article (Metspalu et al.) which, he said, "disproves the influx of people
> into India."
>
> In a new article called "Population Genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia
> (Allentoft et al.)," published in *Nature* only five day ago, the authors
> conclude that their "analyses support that migrations during the Early
> Bronze Age is a probable scenario for the spread of Indo-European
> languages." This goes in the opposite direction of the article by Metspalu
> et al., and gives strong genetic support to the notion of an influx into
> the Sub Continent between 3000-1000 BCE. The authors of the new article
> used a very large data set for their study.
>
> Here is the abstract.
>
> The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000?1000 BC) was a period of major
> cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes
> resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations,
> potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain
> phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods to
> sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across Eurasia.
> We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period involving
> large-scale population migrations and replacements, responsible for shaping
> major parts of present-day demographic structure in both Europe and Asia.
> Our findings are consistent with the hypothesized spread of Indo-European
> languages during the Early Bronze Age. We also demonstrate that light skin
> pigmentation in Europeans was already present at high frequency in the
> Bronze Age, but not lactose tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of
> positive selection on lactose tolerance than previously thought.
> And this is the link to the article:
>
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/pdf/nature14507.pdf
>
> Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:56:16 +0530
From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
Cc: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAJGj9eY=SWELfjXyj_BH-viH=R9o=SY5T4+MB20202ze+ZiNzw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Its alright. These oversights happen with everyone of us.
Now ,coming to the point of discussion in the thread, when I went through
Prof. Pandurangi's mail, for an analysis in terms of this title in front of
first name or second name or no title at all, I was not able to see any
system or hierarchy in this matter in the mail.
Just curious to learn from the list members who speak English as their
mother tongue: is it considered insulting inside the English speaking
culture, if the title such as Mr or Prof is kept in front of the first
name? This was seriously an interesting piece of cultural information from
me. Learning such cultural nuances of English language appears to be a
never ending process for English learners like me.
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm terribly sorry! You're absolutely right! I was looking at the wrong
> email header. Please accept my apologies.
> ?
> ?Dominik Wujastyk?
>
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:01:47 +0530
From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
Cc: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAJGj9ebKTyiQ2aXOh1jAue+XNhkvvznpTYe5BmD5OYgYOdF2MA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
A small correction of a typo:
I did not want to type
This was seriously an interesting piece of cultural information *from* me
It wanted to type
This was seriously an interesting piece of cultural information *for* me.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Its alright. These oversights happen with everyone of us.
>
> Now ,coming to the point of discussion in the thread, when I went through
> Prof. Pandurangi's mail, for an analysis in terms of this title in front of
> first name or second name or no title at all, I was not able to see any
> system or hierarchy in this matter in the mail.
>
> Just curious to learn from the list members who speak English as their
> mother tongue: is it considered insulting inside the English speaking
> culture, if the title such as Mr or Prof is kept in front of the first
> name? This was seriously an interesting piece of cultural information from
> me. Learning such cultural nuances of English language appears to be a
> never ending process for English learners like me.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm terribly sorry! You're absolutely right! I was looking at the wrong
>> email header. Please accept my apologies.
>> ?
>> ?Dominik Wujastyk?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
> Hyderabad-500044
>
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 00:47:43 -0400
From: "Dan Lusthaus" <yogacara@gmail.com>
To: "Indology" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request
Message-ID: <629A796E3A4541E38192C344BC507F65@Dan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear list,
Would anyone happen to have a PDF they are willing to share of
Pra?astap?d?c?rya.: Pad?rthadharmasa?graha of Pra?astap?da : with the Ny?yakandal? of ?r?dhara / translated into English by Ga?gan?tha Jh?.. Varanasi : Chaukhambha Orientalia, 1982
or know where one is accessible? I have tried numerous times, unsuccessfully, to purchase a hardcopy from various Indian booksellers, and the library is now recalling this volume from me.
I have the Sanskrit texts, but would like my own copy of G. Jha's translation.
Many thanks in advance.
Dan Lusthaus
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:12:46 +0530
From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
To: indology@list.indology.info
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request
Message-ID:
<CAJGj9eapYxPU0+tqjc6itXryRZ6+oWyRocriZ+r_55X6znEPPA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The book is available for download at
http://www.southasiaarchive.com/Content/sarf.144864/213373.
But there are conditions for getting access to download.
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 05:45:47 +0000
From: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com>
To: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>, Dominik Wujastyk
<wujastyk@gmail.com>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID: <DUB114-W56CCB0AD48046991DD7018A5A60@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Prof. Paturi,
As so often in life, everything depends on context. I don't think one can generalize about English as a whole, because attitudes on forms of address are different for instance between the USA and the UK, and within those countries will depend on many factors such as class and education. Use of titles can be a form of politeness but it can also be a strategy of distancing, for instance when the speaker disapproves of the person he's speaking about. I believe that for most native English speakers it sounds strange to see an academic title combined with a first name rather than the surname, and strangeness may be experienced as unpleasantness by some. I personally don't like it when people address me with both given name and surname, but this happens frequently, and I suppose it doesn't help that most people can't tell from my given name Arlo whether I am a "Mr." or a "Mrs.". Then again, people from other parts of the world than my own may not even be able to determine which is my given name and which is my surname. People may come from parts of the world where no distinction between surnames and given names parallel to the one made in many (all?) English-speaking parts of the world is made. Many (geographic and social) parts of India do not know such a distinction. Hence I was, frankly, a bit surprised to see colleagues take offense in this forum at such a common feature of intercultural communication as the one that has caught your interest.
Some more attention to and respect for diversity in naming practices among Indologists would in my opinion be salutary. How often have I had to correct bibliographies where authors such as "Raghu Vira" and "Lokesh Chandra" with unitary but bipartite names were dissected to become "Vira, Raghu" and "Chandra, Lokesh" and placed under V and C? How often have I seen Dutch names with "van (der/den)" arranged under V in bibliographies?
Best wishes,
Arlo Griffiths
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:56:16 +0530
From: nagarajpaturi@gmail.com
To: wujastyk@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
CC: indology@list.indology.info
Its alright. These oversights happen with everyone of us. Now ,coming to the point of discussion in the thread, when I went through Prof. Pandurangi's mail, for an analysis in terms of this title in front of first name or second name or no title at all, I was not able to see any system or hierarchy in this matter in the mail. Just curious to learn from the list members who speak English as their mother tongue: is it considered insulting inside the English speaking culture, if the title such as Mr or Prof is kept in front of the first name? This was seriously an interesting piece of cultural information from me. Learning such cultural nuances of English language appears to be a never ending process for English learners like me.
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm terribly sorry! You're absolutely right! I was looking at the wrong email header. Please accept my apologies.
??Dominik Wujastyk?
--
Prof.Nagaraj PaturiHyderabad-500044
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 03:47:48 -0400
From: "Dan Lusthaus" <yogacara@gmail.com>
To: "Indology" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] request
Message-ID: <0206E7D61CFF437FA18B536DC180C200@Dan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I thank Prof. Paturi for his suggestion, but the "conditions for getting access" make this option non-viable (basically one has to get an institutional librarian to subscribe to their service).
Does anyone have a less daunting way of acquiring a PDF of Jha's Pra?astap?da translation?
Thanks, again.
Dan Lusthaus
----- Original Message -----
The book is available for download at
http://www.southasiaarchive.com/Content/sarf.144864/213373.
But there are conditions for getting access to download.
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 06:33:04 -0400
From: "Dan Lusthaus" <yogacara@gmail.com>
To: "Indology" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] request
Message-ID: <F91F1ED2359C47688587B591F992036F@Dan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks to someone who may prefer to remain anonymous, I now have Jha's translation.
The generosity and helpfulness of this list is a wonderful boon.
best,
Dan Lusthaus
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:25:55 +0200
From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com>
Cc: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>, INDOLOGY
<indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAKdt-CfxCyPZKW2Z+JgS+WqwD+CLMAjh3HUQu2Rghn8sCb5XCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On 17 June 2015 at 07:45, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Prof. Paturi,
>
> ?... I believe that for most native English speakers it sounds strange to
> see an academic title combined with a first name rather than the surname,
>
?As a native speaker of British English, I would agree with that. Nobody
actually does it, as far as I know. If I heard it, in a UK context, I
would assume it was an error, and reply,
"No, 'Dominik' is my first name. My family name is 'Wujastyk'."
Best,
?Dr Dominik? :-)
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 13:32:58 +0100
From: Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck@btinternet.com>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
Cc: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com>, Nagaraj Paturi
<nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>, indology List List
<indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID: <5CF99E2B-13FF-4148-B797-FCE049511ED8@btinternet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Quite so. The only situation in which I can imagine anyone saying ?Dr Valerie? would be if a family member or close friend were teasing me about my academic pretensions. Otherwise it would be an error.
Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK
> On 17 Jun 2015, at 13:25, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 17 June 2015 at 07:45, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com <mailto:arlogriffiths@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Prof. Paturi,
>
> ?... I believe that for most native English speakers it sounds strange to see an academic title combined with a first name rather than the surname,
>
> ?As a native speaker of British English, I would agree with that. Nobody actually does it, as far as I know. If I heard it, in a UK context, I would assume it was an error, and reply,
> "No, 'Dominik' is my first name. My family name is 'Wujastyk'."
>
> Best,
> ?Dr Dominik? :-)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:47:31 +0200
From: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle@uclouvain.be>
To: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID: <E1B2F012-501E-4462-A648-71807C33EA47@uclouvain.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The R.P. Jo(h)annes Ernestus Hanxleden and Paulinus a Sancto Bartholomaeo are remembered in Malayalam tradition as, respectively, ar???s? p?tiri (?Father Ernest(o)?) and paulin?s? p?tiri ('Father Paulinos'). I suppose that their Indian name was something accepted and used by themselves in the local context.
Le 17 juin 2015 ? 14:25, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com> a ?crit :
> On 17 June 2015 at 07:45, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Prof. Paturi,
>
> ?... I believe that for most native English speakers it sounds strange to see an academic title combined with a first name rather than the surname,
>
> ?As a native speaker of British English, I would agree with that. Nobody actually does it, as far as I know. If I heard it, in a UK context, I would assume it was an error, and reply,
> "No, 'Dominik' is my first name. My family name is 'Wujastyk'."
>
> Best,
> ?Dr Dominik? :-)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:27:28 +0200
From: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya@gmail.com>
To: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle@uclouvain.be>
Cc: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAMGmO4K-sk8Nj-t9Rswuxc_VDSYt53Q4XKVdEmgOJp27o3Usgg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I wonder if this is more akin to the (as far as I know, only British) usage
such as Sir William, Sir James, with no mention made of family name?
A quick and entirely unscientific google research (you know, like how our
students often 'do research') yielded plenty of ghits of "Father + [first
name only]"
so... (as with much 'research', no conclusion)
jonathan
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Christophe Vielle <
christophe.vielle@uclouvain.be> wrote:
> The R.P. Jo(h)annes Ernestus Hanxleden and Paulinus a Sancto Bartholomaeo
> are remembered in Malayalam tradition as, respectively, *ar???s? p?tiri * (?Father
> Ernest(o)?) and *paulin?s? p?tiri* ('Father Paulinos'). I suppose that
> their Indian name was something accepted and used by themselves in the
> local context.
>
> Le 17 juin 2015 ? 14:25, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> On 17 June 2015 at 07:45, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Prof. Paturi,
>>
>> ?... I believe that for most native English speakers it sounds strange to
>> see an academic title combined with a first name rather than the surname,
>>
>
> ?As a native speaker of British English, I would agree with that. Nobody
> actually does it, as far as I know. If I heard it, in a UK context, I
> would assume it was an error, and reply,
> "No, 'Dominik' is my first name. My family name is 'Wujastyk'."
>
> Best,
> ?Dr Dominik? :-)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> indology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
--
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands
copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:47:22 +0200
From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya@gmail.com>
Cc: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle@uclouvain.be>, Indology
<indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAKdt-CfmO2v1dc3Q2cp5TfnZkYhyNq5W7PhUssKPL1G+2kbbhg@mail.gmail.com>
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Ah, yes, ecclesiatical titles. Of course.
"You are old, Father William, the young man said,"
And yet,
"The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown."
And nobility. As in one of our own,
Sir James.
??Isn't it pleasant to speak of inconsequential matter
?s?
?, just for a while?
Dominik?
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:06:48 +0000
From: Simon Brodbeck <BrodbeckSP@cardiff.ac.uk>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>, Jonathan Silk
<kauzeya@gmail.com>
Cc: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<DB3PR02MB0539A2A2E63AB28ACA3B60CC8CA60@DB3PR02MB0539.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In view of recent posts on this thread, I have been wondering about ?Dr Robert?, the eponymous subject of the famous Beatles song (?Ring my friend I said you?d call, Dr Robert / Day or night he?ll be there any time at all, Dr Robert ??). If this were a surname, one would rather expect the genitive patronymic ?Roberts?. Indeed, according to the informative webpage http://www.beatlesebooks.com/dr-robert, it appears that candidates for real-life characters upon whom this Dr Robert might be loosely based include a Charles Roberts; but the writer of that page plumps instead for Dr Robert Freymann ? without, I should add, any indication that this title-plus-first-name moniker was influenced by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or any other acquaintances of subcontinental origin.
Yours, Simon Brodbeck
Cardiff University
From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces@list.indology.info] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk
Sent: 17 June 2015 14:47
To: Jonathan Silk
Cc: Indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Ah, yes, ecclesiatical titles. Of course.
"You are old, Father William, the young man said,"
And yet,
"The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown."
And nobility. As in one of our own,
Sir James.
??Isn't it pleasant to speak of inconsequential matter
?s?
?, just for a while?
Dominik?
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:26:41 -0500
From: Patrick Olivelle <jpo@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
Cc: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya@gmail.com>, Indology
<indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID: <7658B8D5-B3D5-4E4E-B847-CA19DCD10CF1@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
But there is also the typically British titles, where it is Lord + surname; and Sir + first name: Sir Winston, or Sir Winston Churchill, but not Sir Churchill.
So it may be entirely possible for Indians to create a new idiom: Mr. Patrick, as I am so frequently called.
On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:47 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, yes, ecclesiatical titles. Of course.
>
> "You are old, Father William, the young man said,"
>
> And yet,
>
> "The Amazing Adventures of Father Brown."
>
> And nobility. As in one of our own,
>
> Sir James.
>
> ??Isn't it pleasant to speak of inconsequential matter?s??, just for a while?
>
> Dominik?
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:57:55 -0400
From: Shyam Ranganathan <shyamr@yorku.ca>
To: indology@list.indology.info
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID: <55818AF3.70000@yorku.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Dear all,
I'm sure there are others who know more about this than I do, but when I
was growing up I was told that in the South, people's sir names are
typically their father's first name. That's how I got my last name, but
as I was born in North America where I grew up, it sticks (my son for
instance has my father's first name as his last name as its my official
last name).
I'm not sure how common a practice this is, but against this, everyone's
first name seems like a more respectful thing to call them. The
alternative is to refer to someone by way of their father, which is
weird and patriarchal. I've grown a bit comfortable with it for a
different reason. My students can't seem to pronounce my last name, but
are all happy calling me Prof. Shyam (in Toronto!).
Best,
Shyam Ranganathan
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:15:21 +0200
From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk@gmail.com>
To: Indology <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] prof. or mr. or mrs. or ms. etc first name
Message-ID:
<CAKdt-Cehg4RVeYQcQLKop6vtdi-uxrG-OhBdpWKrN6xgbj0XJA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
My understanding of the British Lord/Lady thing is that the new Lord gets
to choose his "name." So Mr Jeff Bloggs, on elevation, could choose to be
"Lord Semster of Netherwallop" or whatever he liked. Usually such names
are related to birthplace, political constituency, or something like that.
DW
?
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