I need Katyayan Srauta sutra by H G Ranade.
Rupali Mokashi
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Traditional/ insider's view of language or dialect status
of Prakrits. IMPROVED TEXT (Ashok Aklujkar)
2. Re: Traditional/ insider's view of language or dialect status
of Prakrits (Hock, Hans Henrich)
3. Re: Traditional/ insider's view of language or dialect status
of Prakrits (Nagaraj Paturi)
4. Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda?? (Rohana Seneviratne)
5. Fwd: Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda?? (Madhav Deshpande)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 10:21:23 -0800
From: Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar@gmail.com>
To: Indology List <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Traditional/ insider's view of language or
dialect status of Prakrits. IMPROVED TEXT
Message-ID: <DD2DEB43-1D1F-440A-A68B-44C1146D56E1@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The message somehow left my computer as I was changing parts of it. There seems to be a problem with the most recent version of Apple?s Mail program. If one is changing a draft selected for sending with the ?Check grammar with spelling? tool or making changes manually one by one, the draft is sent even after only a part of the changes are made. It is not held back for more changes or for another activation of the ?send? command. Anyway, my intended text was:
As far as I could ascertain, there is no word meaning ?dialect? in pre-modern Sanskrit. In ancient and medieval India, the way of looking at linguistic variation and handling it must have been different, at a fundamental level, from the way to which we are now accustomed. In my view, therefore, the questions we should ask before we try to answer the important questions Prof. Paturi has asked should be: (a) Where exactly the difference lay? (b) How did the difference come about? What were its historical causes?
I do not have answers to these questions, at least not answers that can be put forward for discussion, but the following article by Dr. Eivind Kahrs could be taken as a starting point:
Kahrs, Eivind G(eroge). 1992. "What is a tad-bhava word?? Indo-Iranian Journal 35:225-249.
a.a.
.
> On Dec 24, 2014, at 12:55 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> When did the convention of treating Prakrits as 'languages' and not as dialects begin?
>
> Was there such an attitude of 'languages' not 'dialects' towards Prakrits in Sanskrit or Prakrit sources of the ancient or medieval period?
>
> Is there a work dealing with this issue?
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 22:16:56 +0000
From: "Hock, Hans Henrich" <hhhock@illinois.edu>
To: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
Cc: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Traditional/ insider's view of language or
dialect status of Prakrits
Message-ID: <B6C42EC7-6C88-4CB8-A1C4-786DCD3336BA@illinois.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
While there may not have been notions like ?language? and ?dialect? as they are used nowadays, there was the notion of ?correct? and ?incorrect? (apabhra??a) speech, manifested in many different ways; see especially the Mah?bh??ya on this issue. The different use of Sanskrit and Prakrits in Classical drama offers another perspective, with different forms of speech being appropriate for socially different participants in the action; here, linguistic difference is not directly associated with ?correct? and ?incorrect? speech but with social status (although the vid??aka?s use of [stage] Magahi can be correlated with stray statements in the Vedic tradition that associate l-pronunciation, which is characteristic of Magahi, with ?incorrect? speech). What is interesting is that Sanskrit and Prakrit are treated as mutually intelligible. Does that mean they were considered ?dialects? of the ?same language?? Or does it indicate some kind of diglossia?
On this whole issue see also the following publication(s):
Hock, Hans Henrich, and Rajeshwari Pandharipande. 1976. The sociolinguistic position of Sanskrit in pre-Muslim South Asia. Studies in Language Learning 1:2.106-38. (University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign)
Hock, Hans Henrich, and Rajeshwari Pandharipande. 1978. Sanskrit in the pre-Islamic context of South Asia. Aspects of sociolinguistics in South Asia, ed. by B. B. Kachru & S. N. Sridhar, 11-25. (= International Journal of the Sociology of Language, 16.)
Ultimately, a clear distinction between ?language? and ?dialects? eludes even modern linguistics, in spite of long discussions of this issue.
Best wishes for the New Year,
Hans Henrich Hock
On 24-Dec-2014, at 2:55, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com<mailto:nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>> wrote:
When did the convention of treating Prakrits as 'languages' and not as dialects begin?
Was there such an attitude of 'languages' not 'dialects' towards Prakrits in Sanskrit or Prakrit sources of the ancient or medieval period?
Is there a work dealing with this issue?
Thanks in advance for any references in this direction.
[https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif]
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
_______________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 09:42:06 +0530
From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com>
To: "Hock, Hans Henrich" <hhhock@illinois.edu>
Cc: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Traditional/ insider's view of language or
dialect status of Prakrits
Message-ID:
<CAJGj9ebpHLue_ri2Wn8UoPYGfXxfw=Qy-xSTsF+kK9xTtVo_Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
1.What is interesting is that Sanskrit and Prakrit are treated as mutually
intelligible is a good starting point. But one could argue that in an
environment of bilingualism or multilingualism too , two different
languages can be mutually intelligible.
2. Filtering the value-terms such as correct , incorrect, refined
(samskrita), corrupt (apabhrashTa) etc., it can be seen that Sanskrit and
the Prakrits were considered always alternative *forms* of each other.
Whether Samskrita is considered to have been formed through the samskaraNa=
refinement of prAkrita or prAkrita is considered to have been formed
through the apabhrams'a = corrupted form of samskrita , the point is that
in both the perspectives samskrita and prAkrita are considered to have been
formed through the modification of either one from the other.
3. The classical drama's presentation of the two as the social class based
mutually intelligible versions of the same language too matches with the
above mentioned view under no.2.
Thanks to all the colleagues on the list for the references. I shall take
the help of all the books.
Thanks again.
Nagaraj
On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 3:46 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock@illinois.edu>
wrote:
> While there may not have been notions like ?language? and ?dialect? as
> they are used nowadays, there was the notion of ?correct? and ?incorrect?
> (apabhra??a) speech, manifested in many different ways; see especially the
> Mah?bh??ya on this issue. The different use of Sanskrit and Prakrits in
> Classical drama offers another perspective, with different forms of speech
> being appropriate for socially different participants in the action; here,
> linguistic difference is not directly associated with ?correct? and
> ?incorrect? speech but with social status (although the vid??aka?s use of
> [stage] Magahi can be correlated with stray statements in the Vedic
> tradition that associate *l-*pronunciation, which is characteristic of
> Magahi, with ?incorrect? speech). What is interesting is that Sanskrit and
> Prakrit are treated as mutually intelligible. Does that mean they were
> considered ?dialects? of the ?same language?? Or does it indicate some kind
> of diglossia?
>
> On this whole issue see also the following publication(s):
>
> Hock, Hans Henrich, and Rajeshwari Pandharipande. 1976. The
> sociolinguistic position of Sanskrit in pre-Muslim South Asia. *Studies
> in Language Learning *1:2.106-38. (University of Illinois,
> Urbana-Champaign)
>
> Hock, Hans Henrich, and Rajeshwari Pandharipande. 1978. Sanskrit in the
> pre-Islamic context of South Asia. *Aspects of sociolinguistics in South
> Asia*, ed. by B. B. Kachru & S. N. Sridhar, 11-25. (= *International
> Journal of the Sociology of Language*, 16.)
>
> Ultimately, a clear distinction between ?language? and ?dialects? eludes
> even modern linguistics, in spite of long discussions of this issue.
>
> Best wishes for the New Year,
>
> Hans Henrich Hock
>
>
> On 24-Dec-2014, at 2:55, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> When did the convention of treating Prakrits as 'languages' and not as
> dialects begin?
>
> Was there such an attitude of 'languages' not 'dialects' towards Prakrits
> in Sanskrit or Prakrit sources of the ancient or medieval period?
>
> Is there a work dealing with this issue?
>
> Thanks in advance for any references in this direction.
>
> --
> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
> Hyderabad-500044
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
--
Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad-500044
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 12:02:12 +0000
From: Rohana Seneviratne <rohana.seneviratne@orinst.ox.ac.uk>
To: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda??
Message-ID:
<263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B146C41@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear List,
I am looking for the Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda?? by ?e?ak???a, which was published in 1927 as the No. 22 under the Princess of Wales Sarasavati Bhavana series. The usual places we find such texts do not seem to have it. I will be very much grateful if anybody would like to share with me a PDF of it.
Thank you very much in advance.
Best Wishes,
Rohana
------------------------------------------------
Rohana Seneviratne
DPhil Student in Sanskrit
The Oriental Institute
Faculty of Oriental Studies
University of Oxford
Pusey Lane, Oxford
OX1 2LE
United Kingdom
Email: rohana.seneviratne@orinst.ox.ac.uk
Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:22:07 -0500
From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu>
To: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda??
Message-ID:
<CAB3-dzfc=65RqS1AnALFqH7fm6pevGBHwJSnoyp+Uq=kkCCgAA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh@umich.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda??
To: Rohana Seneviratne <rohana.seneviratne@orinst.ox.ac.uk>
Hello Rohana,
The world cat shows that the University of Iowa and Chicago libraries
have this item. Also the University of California (Berkeley) library,
since Hathi Trust has digitized it from there, though it is not available
for downloading. I could order it on interlibrary loan, but I am leaving
for India on Jan 5 and will be there till March 16. In case you cannot get
it from any other source, let me know in March. But if you do get a pdf
from some source, do forward it to me. Best,
Madhav Deshpande
On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Rohana Seneviratne <
rohana.seneviratne@orinst.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Dear List,
>
>
> I am looking for the Dharm?nubandhi?lokacaturda?? by ?e?ak???a, which
> was published in 1927 as the No. 22 under the Princess of Wales
> Sarasavati Bhavana series. The usual places we find such texts do not seem
> to have it. I will be very much grateful if anybody would like to share with
> me a PDF of it.
>
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Rohana
> ------------------------------------------------
> Rohana Seneviratne
> DPhil Student in Sanskrit
> The Oriental Institute
> Faculty of Oriental Studies
> University of Oxford
> Pusey Lane, Oxford
> OX1 2LE
> United Kingdom
>
> Email: rohana.seneviratne@orinst.ox.ac.uk
> Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
--
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
--
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
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