Dear Dr Ganeshan,

sure. It was not my intention to challenge this well-known fact.

The statement of Maṅkha seems less well-known (except for a paper I am leaving aside here for good reasons).
Except for the overall subject of his poem, which may be called "Purāṇic", the quote as such has in its given context nothing to do with any Vedic or Purāṇic "tradition". It was meant by Maṅkha as a very personal assertion. He reverts to it here and there on occasion because he felt committed to this principle to the degree that he considered himself - and was considered by his fellows - an exception to the ordinary court poet, and even made this attitude part of his authorial intention.
It was therefore that I restricted my words about this interesting fact to "Maṅkha" alone and did not talk about a tradition, as I do not know of such a one.

If you, or someone else, could kindly provide evidence for a Vedic or Purāṇic background of Maṅkhas verdict (~ ~ "Let humans not be praised by humans, man should praise god alone"), which could be classified as a "tradition", it would certainly shed some light on the originality of this Kavi.

Thanks,

-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-Löns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.

2014-09-29 13:09 GMT+02:00 Dr. T. Ganesan <ganesan@ifpindia.org>:

The statement nArudro [= nAshivaH, nAdevo] rudram arcayet / contains the fundamental Agamic/tantric view that one has to visualise oneself as [and thereby become] the God one worships and then proceed to the ritual of worship. This is the underlying theme of all Agamic/tantraic worship which is NOT found in the Vedic/puranic tradition.

Ganesan

On 29-09-2014 15:22, Walter Slaje wrote:
This is interesting, as Maṅkha cherishes the opposite opinion, according to which no human (ruler), but only god, deserves praise - by man, e.g.:

mahat kaṣṭam aho hitvā yac charvaṃ sarvataḥśrutim[1] |

garvānavadhibādhiryo nareṇa stūyate naraḥ || Śrīkaṇṭhacarita 25.6 ||

[1] sarvataḥśrutim (em.)] sarvataḥ śrutim Ed.
Regards,

WS

-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-Löns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.
2014-09-29 11:00 GMT+02:00 Dr. T. Ganesan <ganesan@ifpindia.org>:
nAdevo devamarcayet might be a general statement; but in the ancient unpublished text of Sivadharma, there is a passage:

nārudraḥ saṁsmared rudraṃ nārudro rudram arcayet .

nārudraḥ kīrtayed rudraṃ nārudro rudram āpnuyāt .. (Sivadharma, 1: 25)

This idea and the passage may be the basis for all later views expressed in the same fashion.

Ganesan

On 29-09-2014 02:45, Chiara Policardi wrote:
Dear List members,

what is the source of the citation “nAdevo devam arcayet”?

It is quoted as “vedic saying” (Coomaraswamy) and “tantrik saying” (Eliade and others), but I haven’t ever seen the precise reference.

Thanking you in advance,

Chiara Policardi

PhD student

La Sapienza University of Rome
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