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On Nov 15, 2013 12:15 AM, <indology-request@list.indology.info> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Brahmin Priestesses (Suresh Kolichala)
   2. Re: Brahmin Priestesses (Whitney Cox)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:24:34 -0500
From: Suresh Kolichala <suresh.kolichala@gmail.com>
To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Brahmin Priestesses
Message-ID:
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A more plausible derivation for *t**?vanti*/*t?vantikai *would be from  the
flower name *c**?mant?*/*s**?**mant?*/*s**?mantika *?the Indian white rose
Rosa glandulifera?*.*

The alternation of  the radical vowel between ?- and ?- would point to a
possible presence of palatal.  In Telugu, this flower is known as c?mant?, c
?mant? or c?vanti. Irregular word-initial *c*- > *t*- is not uncommon in
Tamil and other Dravidian languages[1][2], as evident in the
transformations of the following borrowings from Indo-Aryan:

*sattva *?strength? > *cattuvam, tattuvam*
*sn?nam *?bath? > *t?nam*
*samtati *?lineage? >* tantati*
*?sanam *?posture? > *?canam *> *?tanam*

Intervocalic /m/ > /v/ is well-known in South Dravidian.

Therefore, I propose:

**c**?-/**c**?**ma-**nt-i**> c**?**mant? > t**?vanti *?the Indian white
rose Rosa glandulifera?*.*

It goes well with the other flower names used for characters in the
*Cilappatik?ram *such as *m**?tavi *(related to *m**?dhavi*).

Regards,
Suresh.

[1] Emeneau, Murray, Proto-Dravidian *c-:Toda t-" BSOAS 1953
[2] Emeneau, Murray, Proto-Dravidian *c- and Its Developments JAOS1988.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. <
H.J.H.Tieken@hum.leidenuniv.nl> wrote:

>  Instead of devavandhy?, could t?vantikai not correspond to Skt
> dev?ntik?, fem. of dev?nta(ka), a name of a r?k?asa and of a daitya (MW)?
>
>  Herman Tieken
> University of Leiden
> The Netherlands
>  website: hermantieken.com
>    ------------------------------
> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces@list.indology.info] namens
> palaniappa@aol.com [palaniappa@aol.com]
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 14 november 2013 12:11
> *To:* indology@list.indology.info
> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] Brahmin Priestesses
>
>  Dear Indologists,
>
>  The Cilappatik?ram, the Tamil epic, has a character named
> T?vanti/T?vantikai.  She was a brahmin and was a friend of the heroine,
> Ka??aki. She married C?tta?, a god in human form. Eight years after
> marriage, he revealed to her his real nature and left her asking her to
> come to his temple. Accordingly, she worshipped at the temple of C?tta?. At
> the end of the epic, when  the temple to Ka??aki is inaugurated,
> T?vantikai, under possession by C?tta?, T?vantikai entered a trance and
> danced and C?tta? spoke through her. Later, the C?ra king Ce?ku??uva?
> established a grant for worship and daily celebration at the Ka??aki temple
> and appointed her to offer flowers, incense, and fragrances at the temple.
> After worshipping Ka??aki, the king and others including a brahmin named
> M??ala? entered a separate sacrificial hall where T?vantikai again spoke as
> an oracle.
>
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:44:56 -0600
From: Whitney Cox <wmcox@uchicago.edu>
To: Suresh Kolichala <suresh.kolichala@gmail.com>
Cc: "indology@list.indology.info" <indology@list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Brahmin Priestesses
Message-ID:
        <CAHpShbDUN2t2sfXp1nfKOTpd+JBX+DcEdOYxPLPB1qYOqEgDjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Equally, and by a set of sound changes essentially identical to those
described by Palaniappan, the second element in t?vantikai could be
referred to -vandy? ('praiseworthy').  Skt. Devavandy?, I find, occurs in
list of 1008 names of the G?yatr? mantra: this slightly obscure place
notwithstanding, it also makes better sense semantically: "she who is to be
praised by the gods" rather than "a barren woman of [?] the gods", thus "a
divine barren woman".




On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Suresh Kolichala <
suresh.kolichala@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> A more plausible derivation for *t**?vanti*/*t?vantikai *would be from
>  the flower name *c**?mant?*/*s**?**mant?*/*s**?mantika *?the Indian
> white rose Rosa glandulifera?*.*
>
> The alternation of  the radical vowel between ?- and ?- would point to a
> possible presence of palatal.  In Telugu, this flower is known as c?
> mant?, c?mant? or c?vanti. Irregular word-initial *c*- > *t*- is not
> uncommon in Tamil and other Dravidian languages[1][2], as evident in the
> transformations of the following borrowings from Indo-Aryan:
>
> *sattva *?strength? > *cattuvam, tattuvam*
> *sn?nam *?bath? > *t?nam*
> *samtati *?lineage? >* tantati*
> *?sanam *?posture? > *?canam *> *?tanam*
>
> Intervocalic /m/ > /v/ is well-known in South Dravidian.
>
> Therefore, I propose:
>
> **c**?-/**c**?**ma-**nt-i**> c**?**mant? > t**?vanti *?the Indian white
> rose Rosa glandulifera?*.*
>
> It goes well with the other flower names used for characters in the
> *Cilappatik?ram *such as *m**?tavi *(related to *m**?dhavi*).
>
> Regards,
> Suresh.
>
> [1] Emeneau, Murray, Proto-Dravidian *c-:Toda t-" BSOAS 1953
> [2] Emeneau, Murray, Proto-Dravidian *c- and Its Developments JAOS1988.
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. <
> H.J.H.Tieken@hum.leidenuniv.nl> wrote:
>
>>  Instead of devavandhy?, could t?vantikai not correspond to Skt
>> dev?ntik?, fem. of dev?nta(ka), a name of a r?k?asa and of a daitya (MW)?
>>
>>  Herman Tieken
>> University of Leiden
>> The Netherlands
>>  website: hermantieken.com
>>    ------------------------------
>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces@list.indology.info] namens
>> palaniappa@aol.com [palaniappa@aol.com]
>> *Verzonden:* donderdag 14 november 2013 12:11
>> *To:* indology@list.indology.info
>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] Brahmin Priestesses
>>
>>  Dear Indologists,
>>
>>  The Cilappatik?ram, the Tamil epic, has a character named
>> T?vanti/T?vantikai.  She was a brahmin and was a friend of the heroine,
>> Ka??aki. She married C?tta?, a god in human form. Eight years after
>> marriage, he revealed to her his real nature and left her asking her to
>> come to his temple. Accordingly, she worshipped at the temple of C?tta?. At
>> the end of the epic, when  the temple to Ka??aki is inaugurated,
>> T?vantikai, under possession by C?tta?, T?vantikai entered a trance and
>> danced and C?tta? spoke through her. Later, the C?ra king Ce?ku??uva?
>> established a grant for worship and daily celebration at the Ka??aki temple
>> and appointed her to offer flowers, incense, and fragrances at the temple.
>> After worshipping Ka??aki, the king and others including a brahmin named
>> M??ala? entered a separate sacrificial hall where T?vantikai again spoke as
>> an oracle.
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY@list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>



--
Whitney Cox
Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Studies
South Asian Languages and Civilizations
University of Chicago
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