15f12
Dear
All,
I am
reluctantly intervening just to add some links in the debate.
The
written archetypal book is not an original Indian concept. I just remind of the
Golden Quran in heaven that served as the model for the holy book on earth. No
such concept existed in India. What existed is the concept of the pristine Dharman..
See Nirukta 1.20. The sages knew the Dharman directly and made them into sermons.
It is the decay of the age that made them compile the sermons into (oral) books
called Veda and Vedāṅga.
A
heavenly book has not come into picture. And the written book is not a thing recognized
by the scriptures.
The
concept of an unedited undivided Veda do make itself felt. That is a common
concept among traditional scholars. But that is more the oral vidyās
than the oral book. The Nirukta idea is not different.
The fate
of another concept too is not a much discussed thing. The three heavenly and one
earthly quarter of speech (and Puruṣa,
Virāṭ etc)
gave way to one heavenly and three lower quarters. The metamorphosis started in
the Bhadāraṇyaka and Chāndogya and was complete in the
Maitrī.
The older idea persisted till the Gītā but the Māṇḍūkya’s lucid description, richly
influenced by late Mahāyāna ideas, gave the inverted one a
shape acceptable to Gauḍapāda and later to Śaṅkara. This may sound like heresy but is true (JIP
1978: 1-34).
Sorry
for the long lecture.
Best
DB
From: Robert Goldman <rpg@CALMAIL.BERKELEY.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY@liverpool.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2012 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu idea of "hidden" verses in heaven
I believe the idea may be traced back as far as Rgveda 1.164.45 where it is said that sacred speech is divided into four quarters three of which are hidden while only the fourth is spoken by humans.
Cheers.
On Feb 14, 2012,
at 7:38 AM, Michael Slouber wrote:
Dear Dean and others,
This idea reminds me of the Purusa-sukta too, where it says that ¾ of him is in heaven and only ¼ on earth, but perhaps this is a tenuous connection.
All the best,
Michael Slouber
Visiting Adjunct Instructor
Religious Studies
Brown University
On Feb 14, 2012,
at 10:16 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
I first ran across this idea when reading the Kathasaritsagara of Somadeva.
It says that the number of verses in the extant text are only a subset of a larger text that exists in heaven. Depending on the situation on earth a different number of verses might manifest.
I've since run across it in passing in some tantric writings as well.
Does anyone know the origin of this idea of a large heavenly corpus in contrast to a smaller earthly one? Or have any citations for texts that mention it?
Best,
Dean
|
Dr. R. P. Goldman
Professor of Sanskrit
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies
MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409