[INDOLOGY] "Je souris *tristement*" (Re: Sanskrit and letters with nukta

[Jean-Luc Chevillard]

Dear Harry,

this whole situation, about the modern attempted burial of many past 
human endeavours, by means of AI, brings back to my mind the final 
sentence ("Je souris *tristement*" ) in a  story which I heard in 
French, almost sixty years ago.

Un petit garçon assiste à l'enterrement de sa grand-mère et sourit.
Un adulte lui demande: "Pourquoi est-ce que tu souris, mon petit garçon? 
N'es-tu pas triste que ta grand-mère soit morte?"
Le petit garçon répond: "Je souris, oui, mais je souris *tristement*"

-- Jean-Luc


On 05.02.2025 01:32, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Dear list members,
> In fairness to the opposite view, I'm forwarding this off-line reply 
> to the list
>
>
> Dear Harry, it depends WHICH AI do you use. Of course, ANY IA is 
> faultless, but some of them are more performant and exact than others. 
> So I asked the 2 I use "Does sanskrit have nukta", and here are the 
> answers:
>
> *Gemini Ai studio / Gemini 2.0 Flash Experimental*
>
> No, Sanskrit does not have the nukta ( नुक्ता ).
>
> The nukta, a dot placed below a consonant, is a feature of the Persian 
> script and its derivatives, including Urdu and some other languages of 
> the Indian subcontinent. It's used to represent sounds that are not 
> present in the original script but were borrowed from Persian or Arabic.
>
> While some Devanagari scripts used for writing languages other than 
> Sanskrit (like Hindi, Marathi, etc.) /do/ use the nukta to represent 
> foreign sounds (like क़, ख़, ग़, ज़, फ़), it is *not part of the 
> traditional or standard Sanskrit writing system.* Sanskrit's phonology 
> is considered complete and distinct, and it doesn't require the nukta 
> to represent any of its sounds.
>
>
> *Copilot*
>
> No, Sanskrit does not traditionally use the nukta. The nukta is a 
> diacritical mark used in some modern scripts, like Devanagari, to 
> represent additional sounds not originally found in the script. These 
> sounds often come from Persian, Arabic, or other languages and are 
> used in languages such as Hindi and Urdu. However, classical Sanskrit 
> does not incorporate the nukta. If you're curious about more aspects 
> of the Sanskrit script or its linguistic features, feel free to ask!
>
>
> Best regards
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Il giorno mar 4 feb 2025 alle ore 06:06 Harry Spier via INDOLOGY 
> <indology at list.indology.info> ha scritto:
>
>     Thank you Hans.  I just typed in "Does sanskrit have nukta"  and I
>     think the google AI reply below shows the dangers of AI.  It says
>     things that sound reasonable but are completely wrong.
>     Yes, Sanskrit does use "nukta" (also sometimes called "anusvara")
>     which is a small dot placed above a consonant to indicate a
>     different pronunciation; essentially acting as a diacritic to
>     differentiate between similar-looking consonants in the Devanagari
>     script used to write Sanskrit.
>     Key points about nukta in Sanskrit:
>
>      *
>         *Function:*
>         It is used to distinguish between similar-sounding consonants,
>         like "ta" (त) and "tha" (थ) where the nukta above the "th"
>         signifies a different pronunciation.
>      *
>         *Appearance:*
>         In Devanagari, nukta is represented as a small dot placed
>         above the consonant letter.
>
>     Harry Spier
>
>
>     On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 11:14 PM Hock, Hans Henrich
>     <hhhock at illinois.edu> wrote:
>
>         Dear Harry,
>
>         This looks like a transfer from Hindi. What would be
>         comparable in RV, some other Vedic branches, and Pali is the
>         character ळ, which seems to indicate a similar lenition as in
>         Hindi ढ़ but with a different phonetic realization.
>
>         I’m not aware of a nukta being used in Sanskrit
>
>         Best wishes,
>
>         Hans Henrich
>
>
>>         On Feb 3, 2025, at 20:47, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
>>         <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>         Dear list members,
>>         I've noticed in some printed editions sanskrit *ढ* is
>>         sometimes printed with a nukta as *ढ़* . Any explanation. Is
>>         this just a case of regional pronounciation of the editor
>>         leaking into the sanskrit.
>>
>>         As an aside when I typed "Nukta in sanskrit" into my google
>>         browser, its AI overview replied "The nukta is a character in
>>         sanskrit".
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>         Harry Spier
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!DZ3fjg!68HME0actetdAgGo7GgvydpVWWfcTX59pHwG2Cr1sg-fuvolQs7wEM9HF4iAzvDPY0o_-dqIzCnATKpWl2k0VisjauUv$
>>
>
>
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