[INDOLOGY] Anaysis of ecstasy

Tue Aug 20 20:20:44 UTC 2024

Thanks again Lyne for your valuable help and scholarship.

Best,
Howard

> On Aug 20, 2024, at 5:43 AM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard and other list members interested by the question,
> 
> I knew nothing, until now, about Prof.'s Ithamar recently published book. I hope to have access to it soon.
> 
> However, the question of the 5th Veda has already been long examined and I hope to have made my contribution to this, to the extent that the NS and the aesthetic theory which is constructed according to its rules (and AG's commentary) were at the center of my first research, and continue to nourish my thinking when I deal with Non-dual Śaivism of Kaśmīr.
>  
> Therefore, I would like to suggest, besides my Poétique du théâtre indien (EFEO 1992) a few titles, mostly in English:
> (2001). « Drama and Dharma in Indian Speculations ». In : Indologica Taurinensia 17-18, p. 35-62.
> (2020). « Theatre as Religious Practice ». In : Hindu Practice. Sous la dir. de Gavin Flood. Oxford University Press, p. 311-341.
> (2022). « “Satisfied with the performance”. An embryonic aesthetics in the Indian theater’s myth of origin ». In : Poetry, Drama, and Aesthetics. Papers of the 12th World Sanskrit Conference held in Helsinki, Finland, 13-18 July 2003. Sous la dir. d’Albion M. Butters. Studia Orientalia 123. Helsinki : Finish Oriental Society, p. 5-17.
> (2023). « Quand le dharma s’illustre au théâtre ». In : Visages du Dharma. Sous la dir. de Silvia D’Intino et Christèle Barois. Puruṣārtha 39. Paris : Éditions de l’École des hautes études en sciences sociales, p. 141-230.
>  And in French (if I may!):
> (1994). « Le mythe d’origine du théâtre indien ». In : Théâtre et cité. Séminaire du CRATA 1992-1994. Sous la dir. de Michel Menu. Toulouse : Centre de Recherches appliquées au Théâtre Antique [CRATA], p. 107-119.
> (2012). « Æsthetica in nuce dans le mythe d’origine du théâtre indien ». In : Aux abords de la clairière. Études indiennes et comparées en l’honneur de Charles Mala- moud. Actes du colloque international, Collège de France, 7-8 octobre 2010. Sous la dir. de Sylvia D’Intino et Caterina Guenzi. Bibliothèque de l’École des hautes études, Sciences religieuses 154. Histoire et prosopographie 7. Turnhout : Brepols, p. 209-234.
> You could also find my my up-to-date (or almost) bibliography on my page on Academia.
>  
> All the best,
> 
> Lyne
> 
> Lyne Bansat-Boudon
> Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde
> Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses
> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France
> 
> De : Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu <mailto:hr at ivs.edu>>
> Envoyé : mardi 20 août 2024 01:54
> À : Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu <mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>>
> Cc : Isvara Krishna <theodor at orange.net.il <mailto:theodor at orange.net.il>>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Anaysis of ecstasy
>  
> Dear Lyne,
> 
> Many thanks for your very kind help. Your list of personal publications is most impressive and valuable.
> 
> All the best,
> Howard
> 
> On Aug 19, 2024, at 3:24 AM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu <mailto:Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu>> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard,
> 
> I have not investigated  Rūpa’s theory.  But, what I can say is that, from the point of view of theNāṭyaśāstra and Abhinavagupta thereon, sthāyibhāvas and sāttvikabhāvas are by no means "ecstatic states". They are  elements of the mechanics of passions which serves as the foundation of the rasa theory.
> 
> More, perhaps, in
> 
> my book "Poétique  du théâtre indien" (EFEO 1992).
> 
>  2. (2004) Pourquoi le théâtre ? La réponse indienne. Les Quarante piliers. Paris : Mille et une nuits. 293 p.
> 
> 3. (1992). « Le sentiment contemplé. Remarques sur la poésie dans les spéculations indiennes ». In :Poétique 92, p. 419-425.
> 
> 4. You can see also, for another category: « Les sāttvikāl̇ankāra.Un théâtre de la séduction ». In : Journal asiatique 279 (1-2), p. 199-226 —provided you have the courage to read French!
> 
> As for the "ecstatic states" (what is the sanskrit word in Rūpa?), I would rather suggest you have a look on an English paper of mine, in which I deal with "extreme experiences", or "hyperesthesia".  There I also deal  with the elements of the rasa theory, p. 84, n. 27). Here is the reference:
> (2022). « The Surprise of Spanda. An Aesthetic Approach to a Phenomenology of Transcendence (Rāmakaṇṭha ad Spandakārikā 2.6 [1.22/22]) ». In : ‘Verità e bellezza’. Essays in Honour of Raffaele Torella. Sous la dir. de Francesco Sferra et Vincenzo Vergiani. Napoli : UniorPress, p. 73-101.
> If you have difficulty finding these articles, and if you are in any way interested, let me know, I will manage to send you their pdf.
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Lyne 
> 
> 
> 
> Lyne Bansat-Boudon
> Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde
> Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses
> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France
> 
> De : INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> de la part de Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Envoyé : lundi 19 août 2024 00:09
> À : Isvara Krishna <theodor at orange.net.il <mailto:theodor at orange.net.il>>
> Cc : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Anaysis of ecstasy
>  
> Thank you! Very helpful.
> 
> I’m still interested to know if there are close analogies in earlier writing with Rupa’s method of analyzing ecstatic states, for example comparing various emotional states to the physical elements, such as earth, water, fire, air etc. Or, are there analogies to his categories of sāttvika-bhāva and sthālyi-bhava? Etc.
> 
> I am distinguishing here between two related but discrete systems: that of rasa, and that of ecstatic states.
> 
> Any help here is welcome.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Howard
> 
> > On Aug 18, 2024, at 11:59 AM, theodor at orange.net.il <mailto:theodor at orange.net.il> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Howard,
> >
> > You write:
> >
> > "Rūpa borrowed an analytic structure that is traced first to Bharata Muni, at least 1500 years before Rupa, and then to Abhinavagupta who significantly developed and refined rasa-vicāra at least 500 years before Rūpa. "
> >
> > According to my research, there were two parallel versions of medieval rasa schools; Abhinavagupta representing the Vivarta version and Bhoja representing the parinama version. Clearly, Rupa has developed his theories based upon Bhoja's parinama version of aesthetics.
> >
> > More on this in my book "The Fifth Veda in Hinduism; Poetry, Philosophy and Devotion in the Bhagavata Purana:  
> > https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/fifth-veda-of-hinduism-9781784531997/
> >
> > I hope it helps and all the very best,
> >                                                                          Ithamar
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Prof. Ithamar Theodor
> > Indian Studies
> > Zefat Academic College
> > itamart at zefat.ac.il <mailto:itamart at zefat.ac.il>
> > Recent Publication: Special Issue on Gandhi, Israel and the Jews
> > https://link.springer.com/journal/11407/volumes-and-issues/27-3
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----הודעה מקורית-----
> > מאת: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> בשם Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY
> > נשלח: יום א 18 אוגוסט 2024 05:29
> > אל: Indology List‏ <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> > נושא: [INDOLOGY] Anaysis of ecstasy
> >
> > Dear Scholars,
> >
> > I would appreciate help with the following. In the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava tradition, especially in works of Rūpa Gosvāmī (1489–1564) such as Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, but elsewhere too, there are systematic, technical descriptions of ecstatic states, such as the aṣṭa-sāttvika-bhāvas etc.
> >
> > We know that in another, related analytic system, that of rasa-vicāra, analysis of primary and secondary ‘rasas’ or mood/flavor of personal relationship, Rūpa borrowed an analytic structure that is traced first to Bharata Muni, at least 1500 years before Rupa, and then to Abhinavagupta who significantly developed and refined rasa-vicāra at least 500 years before Rūpa. Yet, as Gary Tubb once said to me, Rūpa, with real genius, applied to Kṛṣṇa this already ancient system of rasa analysis and classification.
> >
> > So, finally my question: in his elaborate analysis and classification of ecstatic spiritual states, such as sāttvika-bhāvas and sthāyi bhāvas, is Rūpa again applying to Kṛṣṇa-bhakti an analytic system that already existed for the analysis of non-Vaiṣṇava, or even Vaiṣṇava, literature? Or was the technical analysis of ecstatic states an original contribution of Rūpa? I ask because I suspect that once again Rūpa may have been applying to Kṛṣṇa-bhakti an analytic system already current.
> >
> > Many thanks for any help with this!
> >
> > Howard
> >
> >
> >
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