[INDOLOGY] [External] Re: Whitney and doubling of "ch"

Sat Oct 21 18:13:12 UTC 2023

I like dutchess vs dutch chess

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From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Collins, Brian via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2023 2:01:43 PM
To: Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com>
Cc: indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] [External] Re: Whitney and doubling of "ch"

Except for our internal sandhi makes “heatable” sound like “heedable.”

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2023, at 1:38 PM, Royce Wiles via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Use caution with links and attachments.
For English speakers an example (made up) could be how we would pronounce these

heatable (i.e., able to be heated)
heat+table

On 22 Oct 2023, at 05:54, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

In geminates like क्क, according to the Pratishakhyas, the contact in the first consonant is not released, and the same contact as the first consonant continues to be held longer till it is released slightly later. In such cases, the first consonant is called अभिनिधान. [स्पर्शस्य स्पर्शेऽभिनिधान:]

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 9:49 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Very clear. Thanks.

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023, 12:36 Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY, <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Somewhere along the line something seems to have gone wrong with the email address for the Indology List. This is an attempt to get the correct info back into the conversation thread.

HHH

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Whitney and doubling of "ch"
Date: October 21, 2023 at 11:28:56 CDT
To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com<mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>>
Cc: McComas Taylor via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, "ndology at list.indology.info<mailto:ndology at list.indology.info>" <ndology at list.indology.info<mailto:ndology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: "Hock, Hans Henrich" <hhhock at illinois.edu<mailto:hhhock at illinois.edu>>

In a geminate, the consonant duration is longer and is distributed over two syllables; the first part forms the coda of the preceding syllable (and, if the vowel of that syllable is short, make the syllable heavy), the second part is the onset of the following syllable. (A geminate, however, is not a double consonant, in the sense that each part is released; rather the articulatory gesture for the consonant is held constant during the geminate.)

I hope this helps; please excuse the somewhat technical language.

HHH

On Oct 21, 2023, at 03:44, Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com<mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>> wrote:

I asked if in the Rg-veda as chanted today, it is gachati or gacchati that is chanted and Madhav answered that in this youtube recording https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvk2JxmD7zI<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvk2JxmD7zI__;!!DZ3fjg!8FlAwo5r4YEjyYFgm1CcNqmAImPqcnnRcZhHLIdakLyfW9oZDgQ1ONi8tRyhN-hyXQKW8bWU61DBm4e9JEEPJOiAUT4$> he  heard gacchati.  But then I realized I'm not clear what the difference in pronounciation between a geminate and a non-geminate is.  In other words is the difference in pronounciation between gachati / gacchati ,  patra / pattra ,  karma / karmma etc. just that the geminated syllable is held longer than if it was non-geminated or is it more like gach-ati / gach-chati , pa-tra /pat-tra , kar-ma /karm-ma
Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 6:16 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
In this recitation, I hear गच्छति, rather than गछति.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvk2JxmD7zI<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvk2JxmD7zI__;!!DZ3fjg!8FlAwo5r4YEjyYFgm1CcNqmAImPqcnnRcZhHLIdakLyfW9oZDgQ1ONi8tRyhN-hyXQKW8bWU61DBm4e9JEEPJOiAUT4$>

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:57 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
To clarify one point. In the Rg-veda  as its chanted today, is whats chanted gacchati or gachati.
Harry Spier

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