[INDOLOGY] Important point about online manuscripts

Fri Jul 28 23:13:18 UTC 2023

Jonathan Silk brought up an important point about on-line manuscripts when
he showed how spelling affects whether an online manuscript is found or
not. Of course his example "Bauddha Gamartha Samgraha" showed how a title
prevented finding a manuscript.  But those of us who work in putting
manuscripts on-line do so, not just so they'll be found by members of lists
we make announcements to, but hopefully that they may be found many years
in the future, so to me the question is how do we title on-line manuscripts
and what metadata do we associate with them so they will be found in
searchs (perhaps decades in the future)..

For example picking a manuscript title at random *aṃśumatkāśyapāgama* .
Should the title be the exact title in IAST i.e*. **aṃśumatkāśyapāgama.txt*
Should the title be the exact title but without diacriticals i.e*. *
*amsumatkasyapagama.txt*
Does header data within the text file and written at its beginning such as
exact title or alternate title affect whether it is found in searchs?
Should the file have metadata? I.e. should the text file have an html or
xml wrapper with metadata of its title in HK, Velthuis, devanagari? And in
this case its alternate title aṃśumadāgama .?
Are there other ways that will help the etext to be found even if the
search itself is mispelled?

Note: I'm asking these questions not in the context of "best manuscript
transcription practices" but just in what will help an etext be found in
google searchs. Does Google even say anything about how to maximize this?
Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 3:34 PM Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Ron is not kidding. I searched for "Buddhist," nothing, then "bauddha" and
> got --I'm not making this up:
> Bauddha Gamartha Samgraha.
>
> bauddhāgama... okaaay
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 9:20 PM Davidson, Ronald M. <
> RDavidson at fairfield.edu> wrote:
>
>> I appreciate everyone’s input on manuscript collections.
>>
>> Perhaps I overlooked it’s notice by others, but this rather idiosyncratic
>> collection came to my attention some time ago:
>> http://indianmanuscripts.com/
>>
>> It bills itself as the largest collection of Indian manuscripts and
>> antique books. There are some valuable items, but the romanization is via
>> the North Indian/Hindi pronunciation one sometimes finds in Archive.org as
>> well. Consequently, items are a bit challenging to spot from time to time.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Ron
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Ronald M. Davidson, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Religious Studies
>> 345 Donnarumma Hall
>> Fairfield University, 1073 North Benson Road
>> Fairfield CT 06824-5195, U.S.A.
>> 203-254-4000 x 2489
>>
>>
>>
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Reply-To: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 1:19 PM
>> To: Timothy Cahill <tccahill at loyno.edu>
>> Cc: "Indology (indology at list.indology.info)" <indology at list.indology.info
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manuscript collections on archive.org
>>
>> Thanks for this Tim. Links to the resources you mention are already there
>> in the listing at http: //indology. info/external-resources, afaik. The way
>> information is presented is far from clear: I'm trying to get an upgrade to
>> the Wordpress
>>
>> Thanks for this Tim.  Links to the resources you mention are already
>> there in the listing at http://indology.info/external-resources<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/indology.info/external-resources__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSllw06S9$>,
>> afaik.  The way information is presented is far from clear: I'm trying to
>> get an upgrade to the Wordpress plugin, in the hope of improving
>> presentation.
>>
>> About the Asiatic Society of Mumbai, some of their MSS could be found at
>> archive.org<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/archive.org__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSuTMMfsO$>
>> by searching in Devanagari, but I think they have been taken down.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 17:37, Timothy Cahill <tccahill at loyno.edu<mailto:
>> tccahill at loyno.edu>> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>    The  Lalcand Research Library (originally in Lāhore) of D.A.V.
>> College, Chandigarh has a large collection, some of which was previously
>> available on archive.org<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/archive.org__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSuTMMfsO$>.
>> The manuscripts that I downloaded a few years back came with a full roman
>> transcription as well as translations. Current web site:
>> https://www.davchd.ac.in/lcrl<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.davchd.ac.in/lcrl__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSpaa1g5t$
>> >
>>     A MS from the Asiatic Society of Mumbai was also available on
>> archive.org<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/archive.org__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSuTMMfsO$>
>> some years back, but it too has disappeared from there and (likely) been
>> integrated into their new site at:
>> https://www.asiaticsociety.org.in/index.php/holdings/manuscripts<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.asiaticsociety.org.in/index.php/holdings/manuscripts__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSvyP8Ipm$
>> >
>> This site requires registration and the payment of a fee as an annual
>> subscription.
>>    One note about the Penn collection: it is integrated into the worldcat
>> site, so a search for a book will also bring up notices of the Penn
>> collection, plus links that bring you directly to the digitized images.
>> Best wishes,
>> Tim Cahill
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 3:25 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Deepest thanks to everyone who has sent me further links for the list of
>> "Online Libraries of Scanned Manuscripts" at INDOLOGY.info.  I'm using a
>> cheap-and-cheerful plugin for Wordpress that doesn't allow manual
>> rearrangement of the list items.  So it's a bit of a grab-bag.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>> Dominik Wujastyk
>> INDOLOGY list<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/indology.info__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSq1FwWDK$>
>> committee member
>> Please do not reply to me personally: reply to
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info>
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 13:23, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com
>> <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> already there, via Colenda.  What is the relationship between UPenn's
>> Colenda and OPenn?
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 08:50, Eric Moses Gurevitch via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> In addition to the already-mentioned repositories, Penn Libraries has
>> digitized almost 3000 South Asian manuscripts:
>> https://openn.library.upenn.edu/html/indic_contents.html<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/openn.library.upenn.edu/html/indic_contents.html__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSmm83kw7$
>> >
>>
>> Take care,
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 9:13 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> There's also a nice collection of Sanskrit mss. from Cambridge U. :
>> https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/sanskrit/1<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/sanskrit/1__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CShcl01D3$
>> >
>>
>> The Gallica database of the Bibliotheque nationale de France also
>> includes scans of many Skt. and other Indic mss., but I haven't found an
>> easy way to globally search Skt. alone. Here's the general site:
>> https://gallica.bnf.fr/accueil/en/content/accueil-en?mode=desktop<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/gallica.bnf.fr/accueil/en/content/accueil-en?mode=desktop__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSoB8mRef$
>> >
>>
>> And, if anyone cares to look up the details and post them, the Endangered
>> Archives programme of the British Library (https://eap.bl.uk/<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eap.bl.uk/__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSl4EoJt9$>)
>> has scanned quite a lot of Pali and probably some Sanskrit as well (not to
>> mention Tibetan, Mongolian, etc.).
>>
>> The Buddhist Digital Archives (https://library.bdrc.io/<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/library.bdrc.io/__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSnNHHHR3$>),
>> though specializing in Tibetan, has recently branched out to include Pali,
>> Sanskrit, and SE Asian languages, though I am not yet clear about what part
>> of these additions are redirects to other databases.
>>
>> Matthew T. Kapstein
>> Professor emeritus
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, PSL Research University, Paris
>>
>> Associate
>> The University of Chicago Divinity School
>>
>> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSrNbNEQz$
>> >
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/proton.me/__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CStXUS1wn$>
>> secure email.
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 3:48 PM, Giovanni Ciotti via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I've recently become aware of this one (registration required):
>> https://lucknowdigitallibrary.com/publication-category/manuscripts<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lucknowdigitallibrary.com/publication-category/manuscripts__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSjduIswz$
>> >
>>
>> All best,
>> Giovanni
>>
>> - - -
>> Dr. Giovanni Ciotti
>> Spokesperson
>> The Palm-Leaf Manuscript Profiling Initiative (PLMPI)
>> (
>> https://www.csmc.uni-hamburg.de/written-artefacts/working-groups/plmpi.html
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.csmc.uni-hamburg.de/written-artefacts/working-groups/plmpi.html__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSkdIhime$
>> >)
>> Cluster of Excellence - Understanding Written Artefacts
>> Warburgstraße 26
>> 20354 Hamburg
>> Germany
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Royce Wiles via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Admittedly NOT on archive.org<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/archive.org__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSuTMMfsO$>,
>> however, the Jain elibrary
>>
>> https://jainelibrary.org/<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/jainelibrary.org/__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSjDvUeyZ$
>> >
>>
>> (free registration required for full access)
>>
>> has scanned and uploaded around 800 manuscripts (seemingly exclusively
>> Jain texts) (findable in the category on the left of the site) as well as
>> the 16,899 ‘books’ on the site and 6,000+ ‘articles’
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2023, at 20:25, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>> There is also
>> Chunilal Gandhi Vidyabhavan, Surat, Pandit Shivadatta Shukla collection
>>
>> https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Chunilal+Gandhi+Vidyabhavan+Surat%22
>> <
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/archive.org/search?query=creator*3A*22Chunilal*Gandhi*Vidyabhavan*Surat*22__;JSUrKysl!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSvg4hoGj$
>> >
>>
>>
>> Le 24 juil. 2023 à 22:38, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a écrit
>> :
>>
>> Dear list members,
>> Has anyone compiled a list of manuscript collections on archive.org<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/archive.org/__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSvkhyxNi$>.
>> I'm of course aware of egangotri, but I would appreciate it if members
>> could give me references to other collections of original manuscripts.
>> Thanks,
>> Harry Spier
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSpDM7ZWw$
>> >
>>
>> –––––––––––––––––––
>> Christophe Vielle<
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle__;!!KIFmrYtlezdzESbnm_I!G8N2kAYTlbp44IXQeE_dWSczSMHlu4_dQk7xroKmRRFSNT8rZx8uf2raVorV_Sk8cyA49ulYrhFwovqCowh-Ze5CSvTIz19-$
>> >
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
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>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
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>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eric Moses Gurevitch
>>
>> National Endowment for the Humanities Postdoctoral Fellow
>>
>> Vanderbilt University
>>
>> eric.m.gurevitch at vanderbilt.edu<mailto:eric.m.gurevitch at vanderbilt.edu>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
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>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Timothy C. Cahill, PhD
>> स:, तम्, तेन, तस्मै, तस्मात्, तस्य, तस्मिन्
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Religious Studies
>> Loyola University New Orleans
>> 6363 St. Charles Ave.
>> New Orleans, Louisiana  70118
>> USA
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>>
>
>
> --
> Prof. dr. J.A. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
>
> website: www.OpenPhilology.eu
> copies of my publications may be found at
> https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk
>
> _______________________________________________
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