[INDOLOGY] Translation of bhagavān / bhagavatī

[Franco]

More than 40 years ago I attended a Talmudic class which discussed the question how a lower being like man can bless a higher being like God. I remember it very vaguely, and may well be mistaken, but I think that blessing in this context was understood to express gratitude. However, I no longer remember the series of steps that took us from blessing to gratitude.
Best wishes, Eli


Sent from my iPad

> On 30.09.2022, at 10:12, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Dr. Haas,
> 
> I should add that the English usage is no doubt based on much older liturgical formulas. The common Hebrew prayers, for instance, often begin:
> baruch atoi adonai elohenu melekh ha-olem
> for which the standard English rendition is "Blessed art thou o Lord, our God, King of the universe..." Similarly, in French
> "Béni sois-tu, Seigneur, notre Dieu, Roi de l'univers," though French tends to use other locutions in varying contexts, for instance, "bien-aimé Seigneur" where English would use "Blessed Lord." 
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Associate, The Divinity School
> The University of Chicago
> 
> https://brill.com/view/title/60949
> 
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2022 2:51 AM
> To: Dr. Dominik A. Haas, BA MA <dominik at haas.asia>; indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translation of bhagavān / bhagavatī
>  
> Dear Dr. Haas,
> 
> In English usage the phrase "Blessed Lord" is current in reference to the deity of the Western monotheisms. I believe that this usage was extended to Indian religions
> during the nineteenth century.
> 
> sincerely,
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'études, émérite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Associate, The Divinity School
> The University of Chicago
> 
> https://brill.com/view/title/60949
> 
> https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Dr. Dominik A. Haas, BA MA <dominik at haas.asia>
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2022 1:18 AM
> To: indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translation of bhagavān / bhagavatī
>  
> Dear native speakers, 
> to me “blessed” implies that someone has pronounced a blessing on a person/object. How does this work with a deity such as Kṛṣṇa? Or can “blessed” be used in a more figurative sense (is this what you have in mind?)? 
> Best regards,
> D. Haas
> 
> 
> __________________
> Dr. Dominik A. Haas, BA MA
> dominik at haas.asia | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 | academia.edu DominikAHaas | twitter DominikAHaas | hcommons DominikAHaas 
> ÖGRW | DMG | SDN | WPU 
> DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences (2020–2022) 
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>   
>   
> 
>> Am 30.09.2022 um 01:41 schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY:
>> Tracy Coleman wrote:
>> Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Blessed Lord Krishna
>> 
>> Thank you Tracy for this.  "Blessed" is exactly what I need. And of course thank you to everyone else who answered, Rajam, Donald Davis, Dean Michael Anderson, and Matthew Kapstein.
>> 
>> "Blessed" is a little more concise than this definition of bhagavat in the Vishnu Purana translated by Sw. Tyagīśānanda
>> "That which is imperceptible, undecaying, inconceivable, unborn,
>> inexhaustible, indestructible; which has neither form, nor hands, nor
>> feet, which is almighty, omnipresent, eternal; the cause of all things
>> and without cause, permeating all, itself unpenetrated, and from which
>> all things proceed, that is the object which the wise behold, that is
>> Brahman, that is the Supreme State, that is the thing spoken of by the
>> Vedas, the infinitely subtle, supreme condition of viSNu.  That Essence
>> of the Supreme is defined by the term Bhagavat;  the word Bhagavat is
>> the denotation of that primeval and eternal God; and he who fully
>> understands the meaning of that expression is possessed of holy wisdom,
>> the sum and substance of the three vedas. The word Bhagavat is a
>> convenient form to be used in the adoration of that Supreme Being, to
>> twhom no term is applicable; and therefore bhagavat expresses that
>> Supreme Spirit which is individual, almighty, and the cause of causes of
>> all things. . . .
>> 
>> Harry Spier
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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