[INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

[Caley Smith]

It seems to me speaking of an Indic diminishing of a dyaus pitar as maybe
jumping the gun. There are plenty of heavenly figures (tvastr and savitar
are often characterized as deva/divya) but the importance of a dyaus pitar
can't even really be reconstructed to the indo-Iranian level. Important
father figures are the Father Asura from RV 10.124, Kuiper has some
interesting thoughts on this. And of course there is a heavenly mother in
Aditi, I think it's first in Breretons the Rgvedic Adityas he suggests an
adj a-diti "unbound" that applied to heavenly could be reanalyzed as the
femimine partner of Heaven and become a goddess in her own right. If I
misremember these things please forgive, I'm on my phone bouncing my
newborn currently.

It seems to me a particulary important part of Indra's character that he is
not a biological father, and thus perhaps any study of the figure of a
dyaus pitar might have to really re think what the family as an in situ
political unit means in PIE and IIr. It's not really obvious to me that a
steppe clan based family in a segmentation society should in any way have a
similar concept of family and paternity as the fixed field agrarian Greek
or Roman one. Sorry is not more helpful.

Best,
Caley

On Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:27 PM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thanks Hans Henrich,
>
> I was aware that he was not widely mentioned in RV but I hadn't thought of
> the ramifications of that until your post.
>
> I realize this may be the wrong place to ask this, but are you aware of
> any studies on the origin and fate of Dyaus/Zeus/Tiu across or within the
> other Indo-European languages?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Monday, May 30, 2022, 10:21:02 PM GMT+5:30, Hock, Hans Henrich <
> hhhock at illinois.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Dean,
>
> Even in the RigVeda *dyauṣ pitṛ *appears only six times; *dyauḥ *by
> itself, of course, occurs frequently, but often in feminine gender. In
> addition, there is the compound *dyāvāpṛthivī. *
>
> So, while *dyauṣ pitṛ* (and his relation to *pṛthivī mātṛ*) may be
> important from the perspective of comparative Indo-European mythology, his
> role in the Vedic tradition is highly diminished from the beginning. Other
> deities (Agni, Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, etc.) play a more important role, and
> in Vedic Prose, Viṣṇu, as personification of the sacrifice, becomes more
> important (as well as Rudra), and of course Prajāpati, the ‘lord of
> creatures’.
>
> I hope this at least partly answers your query.
>
> All the best,
>
> Hans Henrich
>
>
>
> On 30 May2022, at 08:43, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Indology List,
>
> Can anyone point me to any studies that discuss what happened to the Vedic
> Dyaus Pater who was important in the Rig Veda but who seems to have been
> supplanted in later times?
>
> It's particularly interesting for Indo-European studies because Dyaus is
> related to the Greek Zeus and the Germanic Tyr/Tius and Dyaus Pater to the
> Roman Ju-piter.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
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