[INDOLOGY] Tantrapāla

[Martin Gansten]

Dear Christian,

I'm afraid I can't answer either question at the moment. The 
history/etymology of the term was the first thing I wondered about too, 
and one may speculate that the underlying idea is line of marching 
soldiers stretching out (tan-), but I don't know for sure. Perhaps 
others do?

Best wishes,
Martin



Den 2022-07-04 kl. 08:17, skrev Christian Ferstl:
> Dear Martin,
>
> is the meaning 'army' for tantra (and 'soldier' for tantrin) 
> explainable on historical or etymological grounds, or is it even 
> explained by Sanskrit commentators?
>
> Christian
>
> Am 04.07.2022 05:52, schrieb Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY:
>> Thank you, Patricia, that's one place I hadn't looked. The meaning
>> 'commander of (a subdvision of) an army', particularly the infantry,
>> was also suggested privately by Walter Slaje and is almost certainly
>> correct. The meaning 'army' for tantra (and 'soldier' for tantrin) is
>> found in most dictionaries, but Walter tells me it is very common in
>> the Rājataraṅgiṇīs of Kalhaṇa, Jonarāja, Śrīvara and Śuka,
>> the first of which is roughly right for the period and geographic area
>> that I'm interested in. Thanks to all who replied to my query!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Martin
>>
>> Den 2022-07-04 kl. 03:17, skrev Patricia Sauthoff:
>>
>>> The Indian Epigraphical Glossary [1] gives tantrapāla [2] as "chief
>>> of the army" and other high level positions of protector of kings,
>>> which seems to fit your verse.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 1:40 AM Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY
>>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if anyone knowledgeable about (north)western India
>>>> around the 13th century might have an idea about how the epithet
>>>> tantrapāla should be understood in that context? I am looking at
>>>> these two verses from an astrological text:
>>>>
>>>> kasya samīpe candro ravimuthaśilage nṛpatipārśve |
>>>> śaninā ca muthaśile ’smin nīcānām ijyamuthaśile ca satām
>>>> ||
>>>> śukreṇa ca yuvatīnāṃ jñena vyavahāripaṇḍitānāṃ ca
>>>> |
>>>> bhaumena <ca> śatrūṇāṃ krūreśānāṃ ca tantrapālānām
>>>> ||
>>>>
>>>> 'In whose company is the moon? If it forms a _muthaśila _[Ar.
>>>> _muttaṣil_, applying aspect] with the sun, [the querent travels]
>>>> at the side of the king; if it has a _muthaśila _with Saturn, [at
>>>> the side] of low people, and if a _muthaśila _with Jupiter, of
>>>> good people; with Venus, of women; with Mercury, with merchants
>>>> and scholars; with Mars, of his enemies, cruel lords and
>>>> _tantrapālas_.'
>>>>
>>>> The standard dictionaries failling me, I did a simple web search,
>>>> which turned up some suggestions; but the present context seems to
>>>> call for something more warlike, violent and/or sinister than just
>>>> 'high official' or 'secretary of council'.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any thoughts,
>>>>
>>>> Martin Gansten
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Patricia Sauthoff, PhD
>>>
>>> Assistant Lecturer
>>> Department of History, Classics, and Religion
>>> University of Alberta
>>>
>>> Edmonton, Canada
>>>
>>> (I will respond as quickly as I can. In the meantime, here is a pdf
>>> [3] of some of my favorite simple guided meditations.)
>>>
>>> Author: Illness and Immortality: mantra, maṇḍala, and meditation
>>> in the Netra Tantra [4]
>>>
>>> UAlberta resources
>>> Sexual assault centre: sexualassaultcentre at ualberta.ca
>>> Office of Safe Disclosure and Human Rights: osdhr at ualberta.ca The
>>> Landing: thelanding at su.ualberta.ca
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1] 
>> https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/IEGScan/2020/web/webtc/indexcaller.php
>> [2] 
>> https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/csl-apidev/servepdf.php?dict=IEG&page=337
>> [3] https://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/med-guided2.pdf
>> [4] 
>> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/illness-and-immortality-9780197553268?cc=us&lang=en&#:~:text=Patricia%20Sauthoff%20examines%20the%20role,to%20alleviate%20illness%20and%20death.&text=It%20asks%20how%20ritual%20alleviates,rites%20described%20within%20the%20text.
>>
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