[INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta

Wed May 12 12:36:04 UTC 2021

Hi everyone,

I am reminded by Professor Paul Dundas of a few other points that might be
relevant to this discussion:

   - Paul Dundas (“Somnolent Sūtras: Scriptural Commentary in Śvetāmbara
   Jainism," *Journal of Indian Philosophy* 24: 73–101, 1996) says the
   following (p. 78: see the notes for the sources):
      - The Jain position with regard to scripture and commentary upon
      it, of whatever type or period, is strongly predicated upon the
      acceptance of meaning as being superior to word.  This can be
seen clearly
      from the standard Jain etymology for the term “sūtra” which
would derive it
      from the root sūc, “indicate.” A sūtra “indicates” many meanings
which the
      teacher explicates through commentary, obtaining the sense from the root
      text in the same manner as a potter creates shapes from a lump of clay.
      - Mari Jvyärsjärvi (“Retrieving the Hidden Meaning: Jain Commentarial
   Techniques and the Art of Memory,” *Journal of Indian Philosophy *38.2:
   133–162, 2010), cites Saṅghadāsa’s commentary on the *Br̥hatkalpa *(p.
   138):
      - Sutra [becomes sutta] just like supta; or sūtra has a double
      meaning [ 'sūtra is a thread']. Or it becomes sutta because it indicates
      [sūcana] the meaning, or is well-spoken [sūkta]. These are its
etymologies:
      it 'indicates' or it 'sews,' or also 'it is produced,' or 'it follows.'
      These are the divisions [of etymology], and these are its names. Sūtra is
      like a person who is slumbering: unless it is "awakened" by meaning,
      it cannot be known. Or due to the similarity in [words that have]
      double meanings, many meanings are joined together. A needle, even when
      broken, can be traced by the thread as long as it is threaded. Likewise
      meaning [is pointed out] by the sūtra. It 'sews together' words and
      meanings like a thread [sews together] jackets and so on.13
      - The name of one of the older texts in the Śvētāmbara canon,
   Sūyagaḍa-, is often rendered as Sūtrakr̥ta-, but the first part doesn't
   correspond to the usual development of the Old Indic word sūtra-. Willem
   Bollée suggested that it might come from *sūca-kr̥ta- or *sūca-gata- (in
   his glossary to *Studien zum Sūyagaḍa*, vol. 1, p. 197). Compare the
   Sanskrit word *sūcā*.

Andrew

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:45 PM Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Since Rupert asked about the "wider Prakrit evidence," I can just cite the
> following verse that is included in the "late canonical" Anuyōgadvāra of
> the Śvētāmbara Jains (p. 91 of vol. 1 of Jambūvijayajī's edition):
>
> Sūtram (giving a list of synonyms for suya, i.e., śruta, learning):
>     suya-sutta-gantha-siddhanta-sāsaṇē āṇa-vayaṇa-uvadēsē
>     paṇṇavaṇa-āgamē yā ēgaṭṭhā pajjavā-suttē
>
> Cūrṇiḥ of Jinadāsa: gurūhiṁ aṇakkhātaṁ jamhā ṇō bujjhati tamhā
> pāsuttasamaṁ suttaṁ (i.e. deriving *sutta*- from *supta-*)
> Vivr̥tiḥ of Haribhadra: sūcanāt sūtram.
> Vr̥tti of Hēmacandra: arthānāṁ sūcanāt sūtram.
>
> The idea of taking *suttam* from the verbal root √*sūc *is clever (via
> something like *sūk-tra-*), but of course √*sūc *is secondary from √*sū* (via
> the noun *sū-cī́-*), so maybe it doesn't work.
>
> Sanskrit of uktá- usually corresponds to vutta- in Middle Indic (including
> Ardhamagadhi), and although utta- is used too under the influence of
> Sanskrit at a later period.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:15 PM Dan Lusthaus <lusthaus at g.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Dominik,
>>
>> The Aṅguttara passage contrasting sutta with vinaya would appear to pose
>> sutta and vinaya as referring to two of what became three piṭakas
>> (abhidhamma had yet to appear).
>>
>> Bhikkhu Bodhi translates that passage (and the following one) this way.
>>
>> “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say: ‘In the presence of the Blessed One
>> I heard this; in his presence I learned this: “This is the Dhamma; this is
>> the discipline; this is the Teacher’s teaching!”’ That bhikkhu’s statement
>> should neither be approved nor rejected. Without approving or rejecting it,
>> you should thoroughly learn those words and phrases and then check for them
>> in the discourses and seek them in the discipline.{893} If, when you check
>> for them in the discourses and seek them in the discipline, [you find that]
>> they are not included among the discourses and are not to be seen in the
>> discipline, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Surely, this is not the word
>> of the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One. It has been
>> badly learned by this bhikkhu.’ Thus you should discard it.
>>
>> “But a bhikkhu might say: ‘In the presence of the Blessed One I heard
>> this; in his presence I learned this: “This is the Dhamma; this is the
>> discipline; this is the Teacher’s teaching!”’ That bhikkhu’s statement
>> should neither be approved nor rejected. Without approving or rejecting it,
>> you should thoroughly learn those words and phrases and then check for them
>> in the discourses and seek them in the discipline. If, when you check for
>> them in the discourses and seek them in the discipline, [you find that]
>> they are included among the discourses and are to be seen in the
>> discipline, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Surely, this is the word of
>> the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One. It has been
>> learned well by this bhikkhu.’ You should remember this first great
>> reference.
>>
>> Bhikkhu Bodhi’s note {893} is interesting:
>> Tāni padabyañjanāni . . . sutte otāretabbāni vinaye sandassetabbāni. Mp
>> gives various meanings of sutte and vinaye here, some improbable. Clearly,
>> this instruction presupposes that there already existed a body of
>> discourses and a systematic Vinaya that could be used to evaluate other
>> texts proposed for inclusion as authentic utterances of the Buddha.
>> Otāretabbāni is gerundive plural of otārenti, “make descend, put down or
>> put into,” and otaranti, just below, means “descend, come down, go into.”
>> My renderings, respectively, as “check for them” and “are included among”
>> are adapted to the context. Sandassetabbāni is gerundive plural of
>> sandassenti, “show, make seen,” and sandissanti means “are seen.”
>>
>> Like Woodward, Bodhi will on occasion indicate when he finds the
>> commentaries unhelpful or misleading.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On May 11, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting that in some of those citations, Dan, sutta is in the
>> singular.  That suggests, to me, a genre rather than "texts".  (I'm not on
>> secure ground here;  my Pali grammar is a bit rusty.)
>>
>> On another topic, my teacher Richard Gombrich also taught me that sutta
>> could be *<sūkta .  But I'd like to note that he wasn't dogmatic about it.
>> It was represented as a possibility.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
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