[INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta

Tue May 11 14:06:30 UTC 2021

If I remember, the term *sutta *is found in a passage describing the views
of one of the Ājīvikas (*suttagul̥e khitte*), where it clearly refers to a
thread. Is the term *sutta *as a kind of text found anywhere other than in
the titles of texts? In other words, does the word *sutta *as a kind of
text belong to the oldest stratum of Pali, or is it only a sort of
editorial usage?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 6:52 AM Uskokov, Aleksandar via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Interestingly Śaṅkara gives a similar illustration in his BSBh
> 1.1.2: vedānta-vākya-kusuma-grathanārthatvāt sūtrāṇām; vedānta-vākyāni hi
> sūtrair udāhṛtya vicāryante; "The sūtras ae for knitting the flowers that
> are the Upaniṣadic passages; for, the Upaniṣadic passages themselves are
> examined through the sūtras."
>
> One benefit of reading *sutta* as *sūkta* is that it is no longer
> mysterious why Brahmanical sūtras are so economical and Buddhist having so
> much repetition. Later Brahmanical definitions all associate *sūtra* with
> being short and having few worlds and syllables.
>
> Best wishes
> Aleksandar
>
> Aleksandar Uskokov
>
> Lector in Sanskrit
>
> South Asian Studies Council, Yale University
>
> 203-432-1972 | aleksandar.uskokov at yale.edu
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:22 AM
> *To:* Rupert Gethin <Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk>;
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta
>
>
> But this is not really much to support *sutta* < *sūkta*, since the
> regular Pāli form parallel to *sūkta* includes the glide -v-, as Skt
> *ukta* ~ Pāli *vutta* and similarly in other MIA languages, which all
> seem to preserve the initial v- of the verbal root **vac*- (Pischel
> §337), despite the vowel change a > u before a labial (§104).
>
>
> And anyway, Buddhaghosa here is offering multiple exegetical “etymologies”
> (an old technique beginning already in the Vedic *brāhmaṇa-*prose), which
> are alternative or mutually complementary.  The last of the six offered
> here relies on the “thread” meaning, explained using *two* distinct
> analogies which, if anything  about the author’s sense of the basic literal
> meaning of the term is to be inferred from that fact, would point rather to
> a stronger awareness of *sutta* as connected with threads:
>
>
>
> *… suttasabhāgañ c’etaṃ yathā hi tacchakānaṃ suttaṃ pamāṇaṃ hoti evaṃ etam
> pi viññūnaṃ, yathā ca suttena saṅgahītāni pupphāni na vikirīyanti na
> viddhaṃsiyanti evam etena saṅgahītā atthā.*
>
>
>
> The trans. of the whole passage:
>
>
>
> This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies,
>
> Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise
>
> A plumb-line; therefore *Sutta* is its name.
>
>
>
> For it shows what is good for the good of self and others.
>
> It is well expressed to suit the wishes of the audience. It has
>
> been said that it fructifies the Good, as crops fructify their
>
> fruit; that it yields the Good as a cow yields milk; and that
>
> it well protects and guards the Good. *It is a measure to the*
>
> *wise as the plumb-line is to carpenters*. And *just as flowers*
>
> *strung together are not scattered nor destroyed, so the Good*
>
> *strung together by it does not peris*h. Hence it has been said,
>
> to facilitate the study of the word-definition:
>
>
>
> This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies,
>
> Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise
>
> A plumb-line; therefore *Sutta* is its name.
>
> (tr. Maung Tin, *The Expositor*, v. 1, PTE (1920), p. 24
>
>
>
> Best,
> Tim
>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> Timothy Lubin
> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> 204 Tucker Hall
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>
> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020–21
> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020–21
>
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>
>
> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Reply-To: *Rupert Gethin <Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk>
> *Date: *Monday, May 10, 2021 at 7:29 PM
> *To: *INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta
>
>
>
> Oskar von Hinüber suggests here that the Theravāda tradition offers no
> support for a derivation of *sutta* from *sūkta*. (In
> der Theravāda-Überlieferung findet die Annahme, daß *sutta*- eigentlich
> *sūkta*- entspräche, nirgends eine Stütze, wie die
> lange Erörterung  zu sutta-, As 19, 15–26 mit aller Deutlichkeit zeigt.)
>
>
>
> However, the Atthasālini passage cited here (= Sp I 19 = Sv I 17) quotes
> and explains a mnemonic verse that offers 6 ways of taking *sutta;* the
> second of these is precisely *sūkta* (Pali *suvutta*):
>
>
>
> "As revealing benefits, as well spoken (*suvutta*), as productive,
> as yielding,
>
> as sheltering well, as a universal measuring cord, it is called *sutta*.”
>
>
> "For a *sutta* reveals various benefits for ourselves and others. And in
> it these benefits are spoken well (*suvutta*) since they are spoken
> in accordance with the disposition of those who are to be trained …"
>
>
>
> atthānaṃ sūcanato suvuttato savanato ’tha sūdanato |
> suttāṇā suttasabhāgato ca suttan ti akkhātaṃ ||
>
>
>
> taṃ hi attatthaparatthādibhede atthe sūceti. suvuttā c’ ettha
> atthā veneyyajjhāsayānulomena vuttattā ...
>
>
>
> Rupert Gethin
>
> --
>
> *Rupert Gethin*
>
> Professor of Buddhist Studies
> University of Bristol
>
> Department of Religion and Theology
>
> 3 Woodland Road ● Bristol BS8 1TB ● UK
>
>
>
> Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk <Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk>
>
>
>
> On 10 May 2021, at 21:13, Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Oskar von Hinüber (1994: “Die Neun Aṅgas,” p. 132) approvingly cites
> Mayrhofer’s judgment (EWA III/ 492) that the derivation from *sūkta* is
> “entbehrlich”; he cites a long discussion of the term in Buddhaghosa’s
> *Atthasālinī* 19.15–26 as evidence against it.
>
>
>
> Tim Lubin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> INDOLOGY <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Reply-To: *Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, May 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM
> *To: *Jim Ryan <jim_ryan at comcast.net>
> *Cc: *INDOLOGY <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta
>
>
>
> Dear Jim,
>
>
>
> See Max Walleser's 1914 book, footnote on p. 4:
>
>
>
> https://archive.org/details/dli.granth.87981/page/4/mode/2up
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fdli.granth.87981%2Fpage%2F4%2Fmode%2F2up&data=04%7C01%7Caleksandar.uskokov%40yale.edu%7C988aad0e5b1b4a42373e08d9147ff166%7Cdd8cbebb21394df8b4114e3e87abeb5c%7C0%7C0%7C637563362017297191%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=A1pgPgLqB0ZEzM7W0xTHl2FiPSACu1hYQIAwDphCObg%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> K. R. Norman and Gombrich accepted this suggestion. I suppose Pollock got
> it from Gombrich.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 2:22 PM Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Sheldon Pollock in *The Language of the Gods in the World of Men *(p. 52)
> suggests that the Buddhist term “sutta” does not derive from the Sanskrit
> *sūtra,* but rather from *sūkta. *Sanskrit double consonant clusters do
> show regular assimilation, regressively and progressively, in Prakrit,
> where two different consonants become a double of one of them. I’m
> interested in hearing learned opinion on Pollock’s suggestion. I had not
> noticed this interesting detail, when I first read this book some years ago.
>
>
>
> James Ryan
>
> Asian Philosophies and Cultures (Emeritus)
>
> California Institute of Integral Studies
>
>
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