[INDOLOGY] Where can you do a BA in Sanskrit?

Sat Jul 3 17:25:02 UTC 2021

Thanks so much, you are quite right, Shelly's chapter
<http://www.sheldonpollock.org/archive/pollock_indian_2019.pdf> has the
title page as you describe.
I wouldn't be able to track down any of this material, sitting here in
Delhi. If anyone has electronic access and wouldn't mind sharing, please do
send it along.
Best,
AV.

On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 10:43 PM Jim Mallinson <jim at khecari.com> wrote:

> Dear Ananya,
>
> A further clarification, in case colleagues are having difficulty tracking
> down this excellent volume: it was published by the Collège de France in
> 2018 and has the twin titles L’Espace du Sens: Approches de la Philologie
> Indienne and The Space of Meaning: Approaches to Indian Philology. The
> title you have given is that of the conference, not the published
> proceedings.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jim
>
> On 3 Jul 2021, at 16:13, Ananya Vajpeyi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Prof. Lyne Bansat-Boudon alerts me that the volume I mentioned --
>
> d’Intino, Silvia, and Sheldon I. Pollock, eds. Enjeux De La Philologie
> Indienne: Traditions, Éditions, Traductions/Transferts. Paris: Institute de
> Civilisation Indienne, Collège de France, (2019)
>
> -- is not about the history of Indology in the sense I had surmised.
> Rather, it collects the proceedings of this conference --
>
> https://www.ephe.psl.eu/node/7484
>
> Issues in Indian Philology: Traditions, Editions, Translations/Transfers
> International Conference
> December 5-7, 2016 - Paris, Collège de France
> Conference Committee: Lyne Bansat-Boudon (EPHE), Silvia D’Intino (CNRS),
> Jean-Noël Robert (Collège de France)
>
> Thanks and best,
>
> AV.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 4:42 PM Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, some of the embedded links dropped out of my earlier mail:
>>
>> A similar exercise was undertaken comparatively for India and China and
>> the study of classical Chinese
>> <http://www.sheldonpollock.org/archive/pollock_what_2018.pdf>. Some
>> aspects of the history of Indology in France is here, I think:
>>
>> d’Intino, Silvia, and Sheldon I. Pollock, eds. *Enjeux De La Philologie
>> Indienne: Traditions, Éditions, Traductions/Transferts*. Paris:
>> Institute de Civilisation Indienne, Collège de France, 2019.
>>
>> Thanks and best,
>>
>> AV.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 12:20 PM Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Dominik, Antonia, Prof. Rocher, and Colleagues,
>>>
>>> On a different trajectory than Schwab, and apart from the history of
>>> area studies in the US which is by now pretty thoroughly known, Pollock has
>>> explored the antecedents and inter-connections of Philology, Classics,
>>> Sanskrit, Oriental Studies, Indology and the Humanities in the
>>> post-Enlightenment Western university quite consistently over the past
>>> decade and a half.
>>>
>>> You may find many articles of interest on this broad theme -- how the
>>> disciplines are organized and departmentalized; how chairs, syllabi and
>>> degrees emerge; what role the study of Sanskrit plays in the definition and
>>> evolution of the modern humanities -- in a repository of his writings,
>>> here <http://www.sheldonpollock.org/>:
>>>
>>> http://www.sheldonpollock.org/texts/articles/
>>>
>>> There are also reflections on the relationship -- or disjunction --
>>> between intellectual cultures, philological methods, reading practices,
>>> pedagogy, translation, transmission etc. in India and in the West, before
>>> the colonial university (largely) supplanted more "traditional" forms of
>>> Sanskrit teaching and learning in colonial and post-colonial India.
>>>
>>> A similar exercise was undertaken comparatively for China and the study
>>> of classical Chinese. Some aspects of the history of Indology in France
>>> is here, I think, though I haven't seen this work yet, except for
>>> Shelly's chapter
>>> <http://www.sheldonpollock.org/archive/pollock_indian_2019.pdf>.
>>> Professors Isabelle Ratie, Matthew Kapstein or Jan Houben would know more
>>> (about the French case).
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ananya.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 10:43 PM Antonia Ruppel via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Dominik,
>>>>
>>>> My personal impression concerning Sanskrit (and all the other subjects
>>>> Germans would call 'breadless') at university, at least in Anglophone
>>>> countries, is that, with the exorbitant fees students are paying, they and
>>>> their parents want something in return. Spending a life paying off student
>>>> debt is no fun, and so the understandable tendency would be to take/major
>>>> in a subject that offers a slightly clearer path towards gainful
>>>> employment. Taking an online Sanskrit course that costs around $300 is a
>>>> much smaller commitment, and almost all my Yogic Studies students are
>>>> adults. (If you take all three terms of my intro course for $800, you get
>>>> the same from me that my Cornell and Munich students in Intro Sanskrit
>>>> got/are currently getting, and with much better tech support, a TA and
>>>> thriving online communities. But Yogic Studies, unlike universities, are
>>>> the ones considered by some as being ‘for profit’:-)…)
>>>>
>>>> Another factor likely is that most students in Europe or North America
>>>> don't really know about subjects that they don't encounter in secondary
>>>> school (I at least first heard the name 'Sanskrit' mentioned when I was
>>>> already a Classics undergrad). Combine that with the attitude (which I
>>>> believe is stronger where I currently am than in e.g. the US) that the task
>>>> of a department of Indology, Indo-European etc is to educate the next
>>>> generation of Indologists, Indo-Europeanists etc., and you find an
>>>> environment that could be made more inviting for students who (wisely!)
>>>> want to first dip their toe into this new (to them) field before they
>>>> possibly commit to it.
>>>>
>>>> There are many other factors as well, of course. Some things we can do
>>>> that I believe would be productive:
>>>> - Networking as much as we can within our institutions, having our
>>>> courses recognized as elements in as many adjacent departments as possible.
>>>> We have *so much* to offer after all.
>>>> - Becoming better public communicators and advocates of our work. The
>>>> idea of a public intellectual is accepted in some countries, praised in
>>>> few, often looked down on in others. Such communication is difficult and
>>>> needs to be learned, but it *can* be learned. This applies especially to
>>>> all our specialised research that does at first sight not pass an
>>>> interested bystander's 'so what?' test.
>>>> - Give available positions not just to those who excel most at
>>>> research, but also to those who actually care about and are good at
>>>> teaching. (I know this is difficult because there is a limited number of
>>>> posts available, and universities are the only places where research like
>>>> ours can be carried out.) Don't give intro language teaching to
>>>> inexperienced TAs. Intro teaching is *much* more challenging than, say, an
>>>> intermediate reading class.
>>>>
>>>> What would also be helpful, but isn’t in our control: make education
>>>> affordable (again, this doesn’t apply to all countries, but definitely most
>>>> Anglophone ones). Have universities that are fully about education rather
>>>> than accreditation, that are not the playthings of politicians, that are
>>>> not about having a degree from the Most Excellent University of X. (My BA
>>>> certificate from Cambridge states the day on which I received it, written
>>>> out in words (!), but does not mention subject or grade. It took me a while
>>>> to understand the rationale behind this.)
>>>>
>>>> Ultimately, I hope that what is going to happen in future years is that
>>>> the various alt-acc institutions, which arise because there are important
>>>> vacuums to be filled, can be tied in more with universities. That means
>>>> more job opportunities for academics, and for universities the possibility
>>>> to focus on their individual strengths, given who is there, rather than
>>>> having to offer the full breadth of the field. For smaller colleges to be
>>>> able to offer full degree courses specific to South Asia, or maybe even
>>>> ‘classical’ Indology. Imagine being able to have specific offerings that
>>>> you are renowned for, but if you don't have, say, someone focussing on
>>>> yoga, not a problem, because you can offer world-class online courses with
>>>> none other than Jim Mallinson or Phillip Maas (and many others) through a
>>>> place like Yogic Studies. (And now I will stop blowing the YS horn - I
>>>> promise they're not paying me to write this:-).)
>>>>
>>>> We all know that courses in situ, with face-to-face contact, remain an
>>>> absolutely necessary framework; but maybe we can have online offerings
>>>> within that framework, at least when they are well-organised from the start
>>>> and not put on as an afterthought (as they sometimes have been by
>>>> universities in the past).
>>>>
>>>> Public interest in India (past and present) is enormous, far beyond the
>>>> ‘Yoga practitioner who wants to know what the names of āsanas mean’
>>>> stereotype. If we can get many interested in taking a few courses, and then
>>>> a few in pursuing further studies as part of official degree courses, I
>>>> think that would be great for our field. It would also secure us much
>>>> broader support whenever someone decides we are an easy subject to cut.
>>>>
>>>> My two (well, maybe five) Euro cents.
>>>>
>>>> All my best,
>>>>     Antonia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:09, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The rationale was just curiosity.  I was chatting with a colleague
>>>>> about student numbers and wondering why universities can't fill their
>>>>> classes while online courses like yours can.  The question arose out of
>>>>> that.  Perhaps the online options are popular partly becausestudents can't
>>>>> actually do a degree in Sanskrit at a university these days.  Instead of a
>>>>> focus on language - for which there is a student appetite - they see a ton
>>>>> of stuff that might seem irrelevant to them (at least at first impression).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's more to discuss about all this and about how Sanskrit degrees
>>>>> worked in the past and how they might in the future, but email maybe is too
>>>>> pedestrian and monologue-prone a medium.  When I did the Oxford BA, there
>>>>> was the idea in the air that we were catching up with students doing Greats
>>>>> who came to university with eight years of Latin and Greek already, from
>>>>> their school years. I think the idea was that it was premature to dive into
>>>>> culture and history if we didn't have the language.  That was perhaps
>>>>> flawed.  The system was so different anyway, that it's hard to compare.  It
>>>>> was a tutorial system, and there were no lectures.  Not one, in the whole
>>>>> three year degree.  I vividly remember the first lecture on Hinduism I
>>>>> attended, by Richard, and it was wonderful.  But it was in the first or
>>>>> second year of my PhD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dominik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi*
>>> https://www.csds.in/ananya_vajpeyi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Ananya Vajpeyi*
>> https://www.csds.in/ananya_vajpeyi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> *Ananya Vajpeyi*
> https://www.csds.in/ananya_vajpeyi
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>
>
>

-- 
*Ananya Vajpeyi*
https://www.csds.in/ananya_vajpeyi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20210703/ac82bcb5/attachment.htm>