From spokensanskrit at gmail.com Fri Jan 1 22:17:39 2021 From: spokensanskrit at gmail.com (Sadananda Das) Date: Fri, 01 Jan 21 23:17:39 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Best Wishes for 2021. Message-ID: ? ???? - ????????? ????????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???????? ????? ??????????????? ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????????????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ????????? ??????? ? sarve vai sukhino bhavantu nitar?? rogai?ca mukt?? sad? koron? bhayad?yin? navada?? d?r?bhavetsarvad? ye ye yatra vasanti tatra sakal?sti??hantu lok? mud? n?tna? var?amida? same jagati no bh?y?t sad? ma?galam. - ???????? With this verse I wish you all a very happy, healthy, delightful and promising New Year 2021. Sadananda Das *Dear all,* *Wishing you a good start in 2021 and best wishes for a happy, healthy, and promising year ahead.* *Sadananda Das * ***************************************** Dr. Sadananda Das Institute of Indology and Central Asian Studies Leipzig University Schillerstrasse 6, 04109 Leipzig, Germany Tel. 0341-97 37 132 (Off.) Fax. 0341-97 37 148 (Off.) sdas at uni-leipzig.de http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~indzaw/doc/staff/das -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de Sat Jan 2 09:00:34 2021 From: wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de (wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 21 10:00:34 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] temple gold: ritual, sociology, economics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20210102100034.Horde.q7kjSHB2qGHtwt2OIB3orCn@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Dear list members, a friend of mine (not a member of indology-list) is working on the sociology and economics of gold in India. She is interested in the ritual and economic significance of gold, in particular temple gold. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you and all the best for 2021! Yours Harald Wiese University of Leipzig wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Jan 2 13:47:40 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 21 13:47:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search Message-ID: Best greetings to all for the new year! Might any of your kind folk have a scan of, or access to: "What is Avijnapti-rupa?" Author Gokhale, V. V. Source New Indian Antiquary Volume v.1 Date 1938-1939 Pages 69 - 73 with thanks as always, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Jan 2 16:52:47 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 21 16:52:47 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gokhale article [Indology List] In-Reply-To: <232249967.820447.1609601359424@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Sven, Peter, Lubomir and C.A. Handy, Many thanks for your kind responses. I should have thought to have checked archive! best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Sven Ekelin Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 9:29 AM To: Matthew Kapstein Subject: Gokhale article [Indology List] Dear Matthew, Here it is. All the best for the new year, Sven (Not a list member) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern1948 at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 02:45:21 2021 From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern) Date: Sat, 02 Jan 21 21:45:21 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003020CE-2A0D-435B-9B68-9B73B557CEA9@gmail.com> Dear Matthew, The article should be available here: https://archive.org/details/NewIndianAntiquaryVol.1September/page/n3/mode/2up Please contact me if you cannot download it. Best wishes in the new year Elliot > On Jan 2, 2021, at 8:47 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Best greetings to all for the new year! > > Might any of your kind folk have a scan of, or access to: > > "What is Avijnapti-rupa?" > Author > Gokhale, V. V. > Source > New Indian Antiquary > Volume > v.1 > Date > 1938-1939 > Pages > 69 - 73 > > with thanks as always, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 emstern1948 at gmail.com 267-240-8418 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 15:15:56 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 21 20:45:56 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Happy New Year greetings2021 Message-ID: Dear Indology Colleagues Pranamami. ?????? ?????????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???????????? ??? ?????????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ????????? ??????? ????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? Please accept my very best wishes for a happy,healthy and terrorless New Year 2021. Kindest regards Girish K. Jha University Professor(Retd) Dept of Sanskrit Patna University, India Residence: Kolkata -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 15:51:07 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 21 21:21:07 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?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?= =?utf-8?B?SmFuIDIwMjEsIDIwOjQ1IEdpcmlzaCBKaGEsIDxqaGFrZ2lyaXNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 20:45 Girish Jha, wrote: > Dear Indology Colleagues > Pranamami. > ?????? ?????????? ????? ???? ??????? > ???? ???????????? ??? ?????????????? > ???? ???????????? ???? ????????? ??????? > ????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? > Please accept my very best wishes for a happy,healthy and terrorless New > Year 2021. > Kindest regards > Girish K. Jha > University Professor(Retd) > Dept of Sanskrit > Patna University, India > Residence: Kolkata > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 16:09:44 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 21 21:39:44 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Happy New Year 2021 Message-ID: Dear colleagues Please excuse me for 3rd time rectified form of my best wishes for a happy,healthy and terrorless New Year 2021. ?????? ?????????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???????????? ??? ?????????????? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ????????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? Regards Girish K.Jha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au Mon Jan 4 04:14:55 2021 From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 21 04:14:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] abhi-vad Message-ID: Dear all, I am interested in the respect-showing gesture the Pali form of which is bhagavata? abhiv?detv?, ?having paid homage to (/having saluted) the Bhagavat,? which is the form of respect the Buddha?s monks, nuns, lay followers, etc. show him. In Buddhist Sanskrit texts this is replaced by bhagavatpadau ?iras? vanditv? (or some variant of it), ?having honoured the feet of the Bhagavat with his head.? The equivalent phrase bhagavato p?de siras? ?vand is sometimes found in Pali canonical texts, apparently as the equivalent of bhagavata? abhiv?detv?, and in Pali commentaries as a gloss of it. In non-Buddhist Sanskrit texts, abhiv?d- (caus. of abhi-?vad) does not have a sense of bowing down with the head but seems to mean ?salute?, ?greet?, ?introduce oneself,? sometimes with one?s name. The references I have found for this (without doing an exhaustive search) are Manu and its commentaries, MBh, etc. Is abhiv?d- found in pre-Buddhist Sanskrit literature as a form of greeting and if so, in what sense? And is the phrase bhagavatpadau ?iras? ?vand found in non-Buddhist Sanskrit literature, especially as a gloss on abhiv?d-? Any references dealing with this topic would also be appreciated. Best wishes Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies The University of Sydney Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au Mon Jan 4 04:17:02 2021 From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 21 04:17:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] abhi-vad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: that should read bhagavanta? abhiv?detv? From: INDOLOGY On Behalf Of Mark Allon via INDOLOGY Sent: Monday, 4 January 2021 3:15 PM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] abhi-vad Dear all, I am interested in the respect-showing gesture the Pali form of which is bhagavata? abhiv?detv?, ?having paid homage to (/having saluted) the Bhagavat,? which is the form of respect the Buddha?s monks, nuns, lay followers, etc. show him. In Buddhist Sanskrit texts this is replaced by bhagavatpadau ?iras? vanditv? (or some variant of it), ?having honoured the feet of the Bhagavat with his head.? The equivalent phrase bhagavato p?de siras? ?vand is sometimes found in Pali canonical texts, apparently as the equivalent of bhagavata? abhiv?detv?, and in Pali commentaries as a gloss of it. In non-Buddhist Sanskrit texts, abhiv?d- (caus. of abhi-?vad) does not have a sense of bowing down with the head but seems to mean ?salute?, ?greet?, ?introduce oneself,? sometimes with one?s name. The references I have found for this (without doing an exhaustive search) are Manu and its commentaries, MBh, etc. Is abhiv?d- found in pre-Buddhist Sanskrit literature as a form of greeting and if so, in what sense? And is the phrase bhagavatpadau ?iras? ?vand found in non-Buddhist Sanskrit literature, especially as a gloss on abhiv?d-? Any references dealing with this topic would also be appreciated. Best wishes Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies The University of Sydney Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Mon Jan 4 07:07:18 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 21 07:07:18 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <1367095.3642237.1609744038653.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1367095.3642237.1609744038653@mail.yahoo.com> I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! The eleventh chapter of the?Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta, which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. Best, Dean https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata The?Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta?of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of that work. The eleventh chapter of the?Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta, which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work,?Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing from?sm?ti?or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, 8 Brahmagupta names the?Ary???a?ata?as the work of ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43,?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m, seems to refer to the three sections of our Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as Kaye does,[4]?that this section on mathematics is spurious and is a much later addition.[5]?To satisfy the conditions demanded by Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's contention that the?Ga?itap?da?was later than Brahmagupta. His suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of the?Mah?siddh?nta?(published in the "Benares Sanskrit?Series" and to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a comparison of the two texts would have shown. I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading?bh??, as preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to?bham?in order to eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed from?sm?ti?or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of theGa?itap?da?could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the more enigmatical text of??ryabha??ya, II, 32-33, in their statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two rules is earlier. The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to discover in the??ryabha??ya?is the following. Indian astronomy, in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the??ryabha??ya?itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended merely as a statement of the?popular view? Has its wording been changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory solution of the problem. Colebrooke[6]?gives?caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato gacchet?as a quotation by Mun??vara from the??ry???a?ata?of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the equinoxes. No such statement is found in our??ry???a?ata?. The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci which has already been published in the?Pandit. The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta (XI, 43-44) ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m || ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate yasm?t | ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet at the beginning of his?Kha??akh?dyaka, a?kara?agrantha?which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement?vak?y?mi Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam. It is curious that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned so unmercifully by him in?Tantrapar?k???of his?Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta. Moreover, the elements of the Kha??akh?dyaka?seem to differ much from those of the??ryabha??ya.[7]?Is this to be taken as an indication that Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? If so the?Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta?gives no clear indication of the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? According to D?k?it,[8] | | | | | | | | | | | The Aryabhatiya of Aryabhata - Wikisource, the free online library | | | ?the?Kha??akh?dyaka?agrees in all essentials with the old form of the?S?ryasiddh?nta?rather than with the?Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta. Just as Brahmagupta composed two different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which represented two different points of view. The second work may have been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old?S?ryasiddh?nta, or have formed a commentary upon it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 09:52:47 2021 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 21 10:52:47 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] very interesting site Message-ID: Dear All On the always interesting (well, mostly interesting) Language Log one finds this: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=49861#more-49861 The site itself is here: https://en.amarahasa.com/ It seems very interesting, and while it is avowedly a work in progress, I could see this being quite useful for students! (Nota bene: I haven't explored the site yet, so this is not an endorsement [not that I'm in a position to endorse anything, of course!], just information) Jonathan -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands website: www.OpenPhilology.eu copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambapradeep at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 08:41:28 2021 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 14:11:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] 18th WSC: Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities: CFP Message-ID: (* Apologies for Cross-Posting *) Dear list, Due to Pandemic 18th World Sanskrit Conference is postponed and now will be held in Jan 2022. In view of this, the revised deadlines for *section 19 Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities* are as below *Important Dates are:* # *Submission of full papers closes on: 31st March 2021* # Acceptance notification for full papers: 30th May 2021 # Camera Ready copy: 30th Sept 2021 # Proceedings for Publication: 30th Nov 2021 *FULL papers* are invited on original and unpublished research on various aspects of Computational Linguistics and Digital Humanities related to Sanskrit (Classical and Vedic), Prakrit, Pali, Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, etc. Accepted papers are to be published in advance of the WSC 2022 meetings in January 2022, or soon thereafter in ACL Anthology . Scholars interested in participating in Section 19 (Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities) should submit their manuscripts by email to *sanskrit at kaigi.com.au * with a copy to *ambapradeep at gmail.com * and *hellwig7 at gmx.de * with "*Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities NEW SUBMISSION*" in the subject line. It is possible that some of you who have already submitted your manuscript may have advanced your work further and would like to revise your submission. If you would like to do this please email your submission to: *sanskrit at kaigi.com.au * These manuscript submissions will be reviewed by members of the Programme Committee of the section. To prepare your manuscript for submission and to procure the relevant LaTeX style files, you may download the WSC2022 Section 19 Support Package and follow the additional instructions given on the WSC2022 Section 19 Website . The deadline for submitting papers for consideration is March 31, 2021. The areas of interest for this section include, but are not limited to: o Computational linguistics: + Digital lexicons, thesauri and wordnets + Computational phonology and morphology + Syntactic analysis + Prose order normalisation + Parsing + Structural semantics + Machine Translation + Automatic analysis of Sanskrit corpus + Machine Learning approaches to computational processing + Navya Ny?ya technical language processing and semantic analysis + Information extraction o Sh?stric Sanskrit texts and computation + Computer modelling and simulation of Paninian and other traditional grammars + Theories of ???bdabodha and Sanskrit computational processing + Sanskrit digital libraries management: Tools for acquisition and maintenance of Sanskrit digital corpus + Library crawlers or search tools in Sanskrit corpus + Incorporation of grammatical information in Sanskrit corpus + Automated tools for evaluation of Sanskrit poetry, e.g., meter recognition/verification, ala\?k?ra identification, ala?k?ra analysis + Software tools for phylogenic studies, intertextuality management, the establishment of critical editions, and other philological applications + Stylometry and authorship attribution + OCR recognition of ancient Indian scripts + Digital cataloguing of manuscripts + Digital font creation, rendering of phonetic features, etc. o Misc computer applications relevant to Sanskrit: + Software tools for teaching Sanskrit + Sanskrit speech recognition and synthesis + Social media applications for Sanskrit dissemination *Programme Committee:* o Chairs: + Amba Kulkarni (University of Hyderabad) + Oliver Hellwig (University of Zurich) o Members: + Ivan Andrijani?? (University of Zagreb) + Stefan Baums (University of Munich) + Arnab Bhattacharya (IIT Kanpur) + Brendan Gillon (McGill University) + Pawan Goyal (IIT Kharagpur) + Malhar Kulkarni (IIT Bombay) + Dhaval Patel (Ahmedabad) + Wiebke Petersen (University of D??sseldorf) + Pavan Kumar Satuluri (Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad) + Sai Susarla (MIT, Pune) + Peter Scharf (IIIT Hyderabad) + Srinivasa Varakhedi (KKSU, Ramtek) More information about Section 19, Computational Linguistics and Digital Humanities, as well as the specific package to help you prepare your full papers, can be found on the WSC2022 Section 19 Website . The instructions for typesetting and the latex style files are available here for download. *G?rard Huet, Amba Kulkarni and Ian McCrabb* *Convenors* *Section 19 Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities* *18th World Sanskrit Conference* -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Professor & Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://scl.samsaadhanii.in http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl http://tdil-dc.in/san/ http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmdelire at ulb.ac.be Tue Jan 5 15:00:38 2021 From: jmdelire at ulb.ac.be (jmdelire) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 16:00:38 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <1367095.3642237.1609744038653@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > > the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Tue Jan 5 15:11:24 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 15:11:24 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <157580240.4493657.1609859484169@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's not generally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > >? the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 19:03:13 2021 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 13:03:13 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication announcement: this year's MCLI volumes Message-ID: Dear list members, I would like to announce that four new books have been published in the Murty Classical Library of India this year (officially released today I believe). The texts are translated from Persian, Hindi, Sanskrit, and Prakrit. MCLI 26 : The History of Akbar, Volume 7, by Abu?l-Fazl, edited and translated by Wheeler M. Thackston MCLI 27 : Poems from the Satsai, by Biharilal, translated by Rupert Snell MCLI 28 : The Essence of Politics, by Kamandaki, edited and translated by Jesse Ross Knutson MCLI 29 : Lilavai, by Kouhala, edited and translated by Andrew Ollett anum?d?mahe! Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr Tue Jan 5 20:11:20 2021 From: kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Agathe Keller) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 20:11:20 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <157580240.4493657.1609859484169@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B7B40B7-AA98-4E3F-93EA-85EC2CDAE7B8@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Dean, I fear that there is no English Translation of the 11th chapter of the BSS. Colebrooke translated chapter 12 and 18, Setsuro Ikeyama, edited and translated into English Chapter 21 with P?th?daka?s commentary, and you can find also some parts of the BSS translated in Kim Plofker?s chapter called ? mathematics in India ? of a volume edited by Katz in 2007, but she skips over chapter 11. I?m quite sure that S.N. Sen must have translated some parts of chapter 11 and discussed them, maybe in his History of Astronomy in India, a source book he co-published with K. S. Shukla in 1985 published by the INSA of which I do not have an accessible copy (I think it is out of print, and I admit i?d love to have a pdf of this text if anybody has one of it). I was told that among his many projects, M. Yano wanted to publish a manuscript of D. Pingree which contained an English translation of the BSS, translation that M. Yano wanted to correct and enhance, but I?m not sure whether this publication is on its way or not. Chapter 21 contains some criticism of ?ryabha?a (and of the Jains), by Brahmagupta expounded by P?th?daka for which then there is thus Setsuro?s translation. Pingree wrote indirectly and not too technically about these criticism in his 1983 article in the JAOS . As for secondary litterature, a bit of Brahmagupta?s criticism is discussed also in Bongard-Levin, Grigorij M. ? ?ryabha?a and Lok?yatas ?. Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute 58 (1977): 69-77. But maybe some colleagues working on the history of astronomy can help pinch in some additional references on this question? best Agathe Ikeyama, Setsuro. Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta (Ch. 21) of Brahmagupta with Commentary of P?th?daka, Critically Ed. with Eng. Tr. and Notes. Reprinted from IJHS [Indian journal of history of science] 38. 1-4 (2003). New Delhi, India: Indian National Comission for the History of Science, Indian National Science Academy, 2003. Pingree, David. ? Brahmagupta, Balabhadra, P?th?daka and Al-B?r?n? ? Journal of JAOS 103, no 2 (1983): 353?60. Plofker, Kim. ? Mathematics in India ?. In The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India and Islam. A Sourcebook., ?dit? par Victor J. Katz, 385?514. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2007. Le 5 janv. 2021 ? 16:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's not generally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > > the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 00:41:51 2021 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 21 19:41:51 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Astronomical Ephemeris Message-ID: Dear list members, By any remote chance, does anyone have a pdf of the Indian Astronomical Ephemeris. For the year 1982 is best for me, but any other year will still be useful. Why I need this. Years ago I wrote a computer program to calculate the Indian lunar calendar for different years and locations, but I need to update this to take account of k?aya-masa which I've been told occurs in 2024. I use the Indian Astronomical Ephemeris to check my calculations. 1982 is best because 1982-83 has a k?aya-m?sa but any other year will be almost as useful. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Wed Jan 6 05:54:07 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 21 05:54:07 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <5B7B40B7-AA98-4E3F-93EA-85EC2CDAE7B8@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <419514138.4684075.1609912447734@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Agathe and those who replied off-list. My interest is less in the actual astronomical details as the fact that there was not universal agreement among the ancient scholars. In this particular case, it pertains to various claims about the beginning of Kali Yuga, although that just happened to catch my interest as one among many such similar questions. As we have seen with the reaction against the existence of multiple versions of the Ramayana, there is a tendency in some quarters to ignore the diversity of opinions even within Hinduism, which I think is one of the things that makes India so fascinating. Best, Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:42:06 AM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller wrote: Dear Dean, I fear that there is no English Translation of the 11th chapter of the BSS. Colebrooke translated chapter 12 and 18, Setsuro Ikeyama, edited and translated into English Chapter 21 with P?th?daka?s commentary, and you can find also some parts of the BSS translated in Kim Plofker?s chapter called ? mathematics in India ? of a volume edited by Katz in 2007, but she skips over chapter 11. ? I?m quite sure that S.N. Sen must have translated some parts of chapter 11 and discussed them, maybe in his?History of Astronomy in India, a source book he co-published with K. S. Shukla in 1985 published by the INSA of which I do not have an accessible copy (I think it is out of print, and I admit i?d love to have a pdf of this text if anybody has one of it). I was told that among his many projects, M. Yano wanted to publish a manuscript of D. Pingree which contained an English? translation of the BSS, translation that M. Yano wanted to correct and enhance, but I?m not sure whether this publication is on its way or not. Chapter 21 contains some criticism of ?ryabha?a (and of the Jains), by Brahmagupta expounded by P?th?daka for which then there is thus Setsuro?s translation. Pingree wrote indirectly and not too technically about these criticism in his 1983 article in the JAOS . As for secondary litterature, a bit of Brahmagupta?s criticism is discussed also in?Bongard-Levin, Grigorij M. ???ryabha?a and Lok?yatas??.Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute 58 (1977): 69-77. But maybe some colleagues working on the history of astronomy can help pinch in some additional references on this question? best Agathe Ikeyama, Setsuro.Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta (Ch. 21) of Brahmagupta with Commentary of P?th?daka, Critically Ed. with Eng. Tr. and Notes. Reprinted from IJHS [Indian journal of history of science] 38. 1-4 (2003). New Delhi, India: Indian National Comission for the History of Science, Indian National Science Academy, 2003. Pingree, David. ??Brahmagupta, Balabhadra, P?th?daka and Al-B?r?n??? Journal of JAOS 103, no 2 (1983): 353?60. Plofker, Kim. ??Mathematics in India??. InThe Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India and Islam. A Sourcebook., ?dit? par Victor J. Katz, 385?514. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2007. Le 5 janv. 2021 ? 16:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit : Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's notgenerally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > >? the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr Wed Jan 6 08:00:01 2021 From: kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Agathe Keller) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 21 08:00:01 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <419514138.4684075.1609912447734@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A32C3B5-1770-4AEF-A296-221BDE9B5BCE@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear all, A correction gently given to me off list by Eric Gurevitch, I conflated two books in my message none of which have any translations of parts of chapter 11 of the BSS? Subbarayappa and K. V. Sarma. Indian astronomy: a source-book, based primarily on Sanskrit texts. INSA, 1985. (which is on archive as others have noticed: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.205661/page/n3/mode/2up) and Sen and Shukla. ? History of astronomy in India ?. New Delhi?: Indian National Science Academy, 1985, which is actually a the acts of a conference on Oriental Astronomy (https://archive.org/details/IndianAstronomyASourcebook) And indeed astronomy and mathematics also had its sometimes quite harsh debates, one of which has been well chronicled by C. Minkowski in ? The Pandit as Public Intellectual: The Controversy over Virodha or Inconsistency in the Astronomical Sciences ?. In The Pandit: Traditional Scholarship in India. Edited by Axel Michaels. Delhi, Manohar, 2001:79-97, over the consistency of siddh?ntic cosmology vss puranic ones. In Chapter 21 of the BSS as explained by Pingree and Ikeyama, the debate is precisely over some of the points of that debate also in which Jain cosmology plays its part? best Agathe Le 6 janv. 2021 ? 06:54, Dean Michael Anderson > a ?crit : Thanks Agathe and those who replied off-list. My interest is less in the actual astronomical details as the fact that there was not universal agreement among the ancient scholars. In this particular case, it pertains to various claims about the beginning of Kali Yuga, although that just happened to catch my interest as one among many such similar questions. As we have seen with the reaction against the existence of multiple versions of the Ramayana, there is a tendency in some quarters to ignore the diversity of opinions even within Hinduism, which I think is one of the things that makes India so fascinating. Best, Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:42:06 AM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller > wrote: Dear Dean, I fear that there is no English Translation of the 11th chapter of the BSS. Colebrooke translated chapter 12 and 18, Setsuro Ikeyama, edited and translated into English Chapter 21 with P?th?daka?s commentary, and you can find also some parts of the BSS translated in Kim Plofker?s chapter called ? mathematics in India ? of a volume edited by Katz in 2007, but she skips over chapter 11. I?m quite sure that S.N. Sen must have translated some parts of chapter 11 and discussed them, maybe in his History of Astronomy in India, a source book he co-published with K. S. Shukla in 1985 published by the INSA of which I do not have an accessible copy (I think it is out of print, and I admit i?d love to have a pdf of this text if anybody has one of it). I was told that among his many projects, M. Yano wanted to publish a manuscript of D. Pingree which contained an English translation of the BSS, translation that M. Yano wanted to correct and enhance, but I?m not sure whether this publication is on its way or not. Chapter 21 contains some criticism of ?ryabha?a (and of the Jains), by Brahmagupta expounded by P?th?daka for which then there is thus Setsuro?s translation. Pingree wrote indirectly and not too technically about these criticism in his 1983 article in the JAOS . As for secondary litterature, a bit of Brahmagupta?s criticism is discussed also in Bongard-Levin, Grigorij M. ? ?ryabha?a and Lok?yatas ?. Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute 58 (1977): 69-77. But maybe some colleagues working on the history of astronomy can help pinch in some additional references on this question? best Agathe Ikeyama, Setsuro. Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta (Ch. 21) of Brahmagupta with Commentary of P?th?daka, Critically Ed. with Eng. Tr. and Notes. Reprinted from IJHS [Indian journal of history of science] 38. 1-4 (2003). New Delhi, India: Indian National Comission for the History of Science, Indian National Science Academy, 2003. Pingree, David. ? Brahmagupta, Balabhadra, P?th?daka and Al-B?r?n? ? Journal of JAOS 103, no 2 (1983): 353?60. Plofker, Kim. ? Mathematics in India ?. In The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India and Islam. A Sourcebook., ?dit? par Victor J. Katz, 385?514. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2007. Le 5 janv. 2021 ? 16:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's not generally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > > the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Wed Jan 6 09:08:53 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 21 09:08:53 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <4A32C3B5-1770-4AEF-A296-221BDE9B5BCE@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <638691918.4696340.1609924133288@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for those additional resources. Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:30:48 PM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear all, A correction gently given to me off list by Eric Gurevitch, I conflated two books in my message none of which have any translations of parts of chapter 11 of the BSS? Subbarayappa and K. V. Sarma.Indian astronomy: a source-book, based primarily on Sanskrit texts. INSA, 1985.(which is on archive as others have noticed:?https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.205661/page/n3/mode/2up) and Sen and Shukla. ??History of astronomy in India??. New Delhi?: Indian National Science Academy,?1985, which is actually a the acts of a conference on Oriental Astronomy (https://archive.org/details/IndianAstronomyASourcebook) And indeed astronomy and mathematics also had its sometimes quite harsh debates, one of which has been well chronicled by C. Minkowski in????The Pandit as Public Intellectual: The Controversy over Virodha or Inconsistency in the Astronomical Sciences??. In The Pandit: Traditional Scholarship in India. Edited by Axel Michaels. Delhi, Manohar, 2001:79-97, ?over the consistency of siddh?ntic cosmology vss puranic ones.? In Chapter 21 of the BSS as explained by Pingree and Ikeyama, the debate is precisely over some of the points of that debate also in which Jain cosmology plays its part? best Agathe Le 6 janv. 2021 ? 06:54, Dean Michael Anderson a ?crit : Thanks Agathe and those who replied off-list. My interest is less in the actual astronomical details as the fact that there was not universal agreement among the ancient scholars. In this particular case, it pertains to various claims about the beginning of Kali Yuga, although that just happened to catch my interest as one among many such similar questions. As we have seen with the reaction against the existence of multiple versions of the Ramayana, there is a tendency in some quarters to ignore the diversity of opinions even within Hinduism, which I think is one of the things that makes India so fascinating. Best, Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:42:06 AM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller wrote: Dear Dean, I fear that there is no English Translation of the 11th chapter of the BSS. Colebrooke translated chapter 12 and 18, Setsuro Ikeyama, edited and translated into English Chapter 21 with P?th?daka?s commentary, and you can find also some parts of the BSS translated in Kim Plofker?s chapter called ? mathematics in India ? of a volume edited by Katz in 2007, but she skips over chapter 11. ? I?m quite sure that S.N. Sen must have translated some parts of chapter 11 and discussed them, maybe in his?History of Astronomy in India, a source book he co-published with K. S. Shukla in 1985 published by the INSA of which I do not have an accessible copy (I think it is out of print, and I admit i?d love to have a pdf of this text if anybody has one of it). I was told that among his many projects, M. Yano wanted to publish a manuscript of D. Pingree which contained an English? translation of the BSS, translation that M. Yano wanted to correct and enhance, but I?m not sure whether this publication is on its way or not. Chapter 21 contains some criticism of ?ryabha?a (and of the Jains), by Brahmagupta expounded by P?th?daka for which then there is thus Setsuro?s translation. Pingree wrote indirectly and not too technically about these criticism in his 1983 article in the JAOS . As for secondary litterature, a bit of Brahmagupta?s criticism is discussed also in?Bongard-Levin, Grigorij M. ???ryabha?a and Lok?yatas??.Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute 58 (1977): 69-77. But maybe some colleagues working on the history of astronomy can help pinch in some additional references on this question? best Agathe Ikeyama, Setsuro. Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta (Ch. 21) of Brahmagupta with Commentary of P?th?daka, Critically Ed. with Eng. Tr. and Notes. Reprinted from IJHS [Indian journal of history of science] 38. 1-4 (2003). New Delhi, India: Indian National Comission for the History of Science, Indian National Science Academy, 2003. Pingree, David. ??Brahmagupta, Balabhadra, P?th?daka and Al-B?r?n??? Journal of JAOS 103, no 2 (1983): 353?60. Plofker, Kim. ??Mathematics in India??. In The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India and Islam. A Sourcebook., ?dit? par Victor J. Katz, 385?514. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2007. Le 5 janv. 2021 ? 16:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit : Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's notgenerally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > >? the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Jan 6 12:54:04 2021 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 21 12:54:04 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Brahmagupta's_Tantrapar=C4=ABk=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_in_Br=C4=81hmasphu=E1=B9=ADasiddh=C4=81nta?= In-Reply-To: <638691918.4696340.1609924133288@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <64FA9DE0-9362-4CFA-B285-E58A6304BD02@uclouvain.be> At least one stanza of the Tantrapari?ks?a?dhya?ya refuting ?ryabha?a's thesis on the rotation of the earth is translated (in French) by P.S. Filliozat in his article "Is the earth stationary? The debate on ?ryabha??ya, golap?da 9-10", which has just now appear in the volume ?milie Aussant et G?rard Colas (eds.). 2020. Les scolastiques indiennes : gen?ses, d?veloppements, interactions. Paris : ?cole Fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient. (?tudes th?matiques, 32). 326 p. ISBN : 9782855392707 https://carnetshtl.hypotheses.org/4506 Here the Table of Contents Abstract The classical type of a ??stra debate can be illustrated by many examples in Jyoti?a. In India, as in Europe, the relative movement of the earth has been a source of severe controversy. The ?ryabha??ya of ?ryabha?a, born in 476 CE, is composed in versified k?rik?-s and by his position in the history of Jyoti?a literature takes the role of a fundamental s?tra, starting point of a chain of debating comments. This contribution presents the debate raised by the well-known k?rik?-s 9-10 of Golap?da stating the idea of a rotation of Earth on itself in the centre of a non-moving sphere of stars and of the orbits of Sun, Moon and five Planets. Var?ha Mihira at the end of the 6th century, Brahmagupta in 628 and others have strongly opposed this concept and argued in favour of an immobile Earth and a rotating sphere of stars. The opponents criticise or, with typical ??stric methods, reinterpret the words of ?ryabhha?a as it suits them. Le 6 janv. 2021 ? 10:08, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Thanks for those additional resources. Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:30:48 PM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear all, A correction gently given to me off list by Eric Gurevitch, I conflated two books in my message none of which have any translations of parts of chapter 11 of the BSS? Subbarayappa and K. V. Sarma. Indian astronomy: a source-book, based primarily on Sanskrit texts. INSA, 1985. (which is on archive as others have noticed: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.205661/page/n3/mode/2up) and Sen and Shukla. ? History of astronomy in India ?. New Delhi?: Indian National Science Academy, 1985, which is actually a the acts of a conference on Oriental Astronomy (https://archive.org/details/IndianAstronomyASourcebook) And indeed astronomy and mathematics also had its sometimes quite harsh debates, one of which has been well chronicled by C. Minkowski in ? The Pandit as Public Intellectual: The Controversy over Virodha or Inconsistency in the Astronomical Sciences ?. In The Pandit: Traditional Scholarship in India. Edited by Axel Michaels. Delhi, Manohar, 2001:79-97, over the consistency of siddh?ntic cosmology vss puranic ones. In Chapter 21 of the BSS as explained by Pingree and Ikeyama, the debate is precisely over some of the points of that debate also in which Jain cosmology plays its part? best Agathe Le 6 janv. 2021 ? 06:54, Dean Michael Anderson > a ?crit : Thanks Agathe and those who replied off-list. My interest is less in the actual astronomical details as the fact that there was not universal agreement among the ancient scholars. In this particular case, it pertains to various claims about the beginning of Kali Yuga, although that just happened to catch my interest as one among many such similar questions. As we have seen with the reaction against the existence of multiple versions of the Ramayana, there is a tendency in some quarters to ignore the diversity of opinions even within Hinduism, which I think is one of the things that makes India so fascinating. Best, Dean On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 1:42:06 AM GMT+5:30, Agathe Keller > wrote: Dear Dean, I fear that there is no English Translation of the 11th chapter of the BSS. Colebrooke translated chapter 12 and 18, Setsuro Ikeyama, edited and translated into English Chapter 21 with P?th?daka?s commentary, and you can find also some parts of the BSS translated in Kim Plofker?s chapter called ? mathematics in India ? of a volume edited by Katz in 2007, but she skips over chapter 11. I?m quite sure that S.N. Sen must have translated some parts of chapter 11 and discussed them, maybe in his History of Astronomy in India, a source book he co-published with K. S. Shukla in 1985 published by the INSA of which I do not have an accessible copy (I think it is out of print, and I admit i?d love to have a pdf of this text if anybody has one of it). I was told that among his many projects, M. Yano wanted to publish a manuscript of D. Pingree which contained an English translation of the BSS, translation that M. Yano wanted to correct and enhance, but I?m not sure whether this publication is on its way or not. Chapter 21 contains some criticism of ?ryabha?a (and of the Jains), by Brahmagupta expounded by P?th?daka for which then there is thus Setsuro?s translation. Pingree wrote indirectly and not too technically about these criticism in his 1983 article in the JAOS . As for secondary litterature, a bit of Brahmagupta?s criticism is discussed also in Bongard-Levin, Grigorij M. ? ?ryabha?a and Lok?yatas ?. Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute 58 (1977): 69-77. But maybe some colleagues working on the history of astronomy can help pinch in some additional references on this question? best Agathe Ikeyama, Setsuro. Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta (Ch. 21) of Brahmagupta with Commentary of P?th?daka, Critically Ed. with Eng. Tr. and Notes. Reprinted from IJHS [Indian journal of history of science] 38. 1-4 (2003). New Delhi, India: Indian National Comission for the History of Science, Indian National Science Academy, 2003. Pingree, David. ? Brahmagupta, Balabhadra, P?th?daka and Al-B?r?n? ? Journal of JAOS 103, no 2 (1983): 353?60. Plofker, Kim. ? Mathematics in India ?. In The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India and Islam. A Sourcebook., ?dit? par Victor J. Katz, 385?514. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 2007. Le 5 janv. 2021 ? 16:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Thanks! I would greatly appreciate the photos of just the English pages. If I need to go deeper, I can try to find the originals. Yes, my first name is Dean and my middle name is Michael. Actually, you just solved a mystery for me: why I am occasionally called Michael. People must assume it's the academic title. Dean is a not uncommon name in the US ... regardless of educational qualifications. In fact, sometimes I wonder if there's not generally an inverse correlation. :-) Best, Dean On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:31:36 PM GMT+5:30, jmdelire via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Michael (or is Dean also your name ?), I have at my disposal a discussion of the 11th chapter in an edition of the BSS by "A Board of Editors headed by ACHARYAVARA RAM SWARUP SHARMA, Chief Editor and Director of the Indian Institute of Astronomical and Sanskrit Research" in 1966. The edition is accompanied by the Vasana, Vijnana and Hindi Commentaries. Are you interested by a scan, or rather photos because the (bulky) book is uneasy to scan. I also have the edition (without translation nor discussion) by M.S.Dvivedin, Banaras, 1902. Best regards, J.M.Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit Texts, IHEB (University of Brussels, Belgium) Le 04.01.2021 08:07, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > I ran across this mention of Brahmagupta criticizing ?ryabha?a > > Does anyone know where I might find an English translation or > discussion of this? I fear I would soon be lost in a sea of technical > mathematical and astronomical terms if I tried to read it in Sanskrit! > > The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, which is called > "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism of previous > works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of ?ryabhata. > > Best, > > Dean > > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata [1] > > The _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_ of Brahmagupta was composed in 628 A.D., > just 129 years after the ?ryabhat?ya, if we accept 499 A.D., the > date given in III, 10, as being actually the date of composition of > that work. The eleventh chapter of the _Br?hmasphutasiddh?nta_, > which is called "Tantrapar?ks?," and is devoted to severe criticism > of previous works on astronomy, is chiefly devoted to criticism of > ?ryabhata. In this chapter, and in other parts of his work, > Brahmagupta refers to ?ryabha?a some sixty times. Most of these > passages contain very general criticism of ?ryabha?a as departing > from _sm?ti_ or being ignorant of astronomy, but for some 30 stanzas > it can be shown that the identical stanzas or stanzas of identical > content were known to Brahmagupta and ascribed to ?ryabha?a. In XI, > 8 Brahmagupta names the _Ary???a?ata_ as the work of > ?ryabha?a, and XI, 43, _j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o > ga?itak?lagol?n?m_, seems to refer to the three sections of our > Ary???a?ata. These three sections contain exactly 108 stanzas. > No stanza from the section on mathematics has been quoted or > criticized by Brahmagupta, but it is hazardous to deduce from that, as > Kaye does,[4] [2] that this section on mathematics is spurious and is > a much later addition.[5] [3] To satisfy the conditions demanded by > Brahmagupta's name Ary???a?ata there must have been in the work > of ?ryabha?a known to him exactly 33 other stanzas forming a more > primitive and less developed mathematics, or these 33 other stanzas > must have been astronomical in character, either forming a separate > chapter or scattered through the present third and fourth sections. > This seems to be most unlikely. I doubt the validity of Kaye's > contention that the _Ga?itap?da_ was later than Brahmagupta. His > suggestion that it is by the later ?ryabha?a who was the author of > the _Mah?siddh?nta_ (published in the "Benares Sanskrit Series" and > to be ascribed to the tenth century or even later) is impossible, as a > comparison of the two texts would have shown. > > I feel justified in assuming that the ?ryahha??ya on the whole is > genuine. It is, of course, possible that at a later period some few > stanzas may have been changed in wording or even supplanted by other > stanzas. Noteworthy is I, 4, of which the true reading _bh??_, as > preserved in a quotation of Brahmagupta, has been changed by > Parame?vara or by some preceding commentator to _bham_ in order to > eliminate ?ryabha?a's theory of the rotation of the Earth. > > Brahmagupta criticizes some astronomical matters in which ?ryabha?a > is wrong or in regard to which ?ryabha?a's method differs from his > own, but his bitterest and most frequent criticisms are directed > against points in which ?ryabha?a was an innovator and differed > from _sm?ti_ or tradition. Such criticism would not arise in regard > to mathematical matters which had nothing to do with theological > tradition. The silence of Brahmagupta here may merely indicate that he > found nothing to criticize or thought criticism unnecessary. > Noteworthy is the fact that Brahmagupta does not give rules for the > volume of a pyramid and for the volume of a sphere, which are both > given incorrectly by ?ryabha?a (II, 6-7) . This is as likely to > prove ignorance of the true values on Brahmagupta's part as lateness > of the rules of ?ryabha?a. What other rules of the_Ga?itap?da_ > could be open to adverse criticism? On the positive side may be > pointed out the very close correspondence in terminology and > expression between the fuller text of Brahmagupta, XVIII, 3-5 and the > more enigmatical text of _?ryabha??ya_, II, 32-33, in their > statements of the famous Indian method (kuttaka) of solving > indeterminate equations of the first degree. It seems probable to me > that Brahmagupta had before him these two stanzas in their present > form. It must be left to the mathematicians to decide which of the two > rules is earlier. > > The only serious internal discrepancy which I have been able to > discover in the _?ryabha??ya_ is the following. Indian astronomy, > in general, maintains that the Earth is stationary and that the > heavenly bodies revolve about it, but there is evidence in the > _?ryabha??ya_ itself and in the accounts of ?ryabha?a given by > later writers to prove that ?ryabha?a maintained that the Earth, > which is situated in the center of space, revolves on its axis, and > that the asterisms are stationary. Later writers attack him bitterly > on this point. Even most of his own followers, notably Lalla, refused > to follow him in this matter and reverted to the common Indian > tradition. Stanza IV, 9, in spite of Parame?vara, must be interpreted > as maintaining that the asterisms are stationary and that the Earth > revolves. And yet the very next stanza (IV, 10) seems to describe a > stationary Earth around which the asterisms revolve. Quotations by > Bha??otpala, the V?san?v?rttika, and the Mar?ci indicate that > this stanza was known in its present form from the eleventh century > on. Is it capable of some different interpretation? Is it intended > merely as a statement of the popular view? Has its wording been > changed as has been done with I, 4? I see at present no satisfactory > solution of the problem. > > Colebrooke[6] [4] gives _caturvi??aty a??ai? cakram ubhayato > gacchet_ as a quotation by Mun??vara from the _?ry???a?ata_ > of ?ryabha?a. This would indicate a knowledge of a libration of the > equinoxes. No such statement is found in our _?ry???a?ata_ . > The quotation should be verified in the unpublished text in order to > determine whether Colebrooke was mistaken or whether we are faced by a > real discrepancy. The words are not found in the part of the Mar?ci > which has already been published in the _Pandit_. > > The following problem also needs elucidation. Although Brahmagupta > (XI, 43-44) > > ?j?n?ty ekam api yato n?ryabha?o ga?itak?lagol?n?m | > ?na may? prokt?ni tata? p?thak p?thag d??a??ny e??m > || > ??ryabha?ad??a??n?m sa?khy? vaktu? na ?akyate > yasm?t | > ?tasm?d ayam udde?o buddhimat?ny?ni yojy?ni || > > sums up his criticism of Aryabhata in the severest possible way, yet > at the beginning of his _Kha??akh?dyaka_, a _kara?agrantha_ > which has recently been edited by Babua Misra Jyotishacharyya > (University of Calcutta, 1925), we find the statement _vak?y?mi > Kha??akh?dyakam ?c?ry?ryabha?atulyaphalam_. It is curious > that Brahmagupta in his Kha??akh?dyaka should use such respectful > language and should follow the authority of an author who was damned > so unmercifully by him in _Tantrapar?k??_ of his > _Br?hmasphu?asiddh?nta_. Moreover, the elements of the > Kha?_?akh?dyaka_ seem to differ much from those of the > _?ryabha??ya_.[7] [5] Is this to be taken as an indication that > Brahmagupta here is following an older and a different ?ryabha?a? > If so the _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_ gives no clear indication of > the fact. Or is he following another work by the same ?ryabha?a? > According to D?k?it,[8] [6] > > THE ARYABHATIYA OF ARYABHATA - WIKISOURCE, THE FREE ONLINE LIBRARY > > the _Kha??akh?dyaka_ agrees in all essentials with the old form > of the _S?ryasiddh?nta_ rather than with the > _Br?hmasphua?asiddh?nta_. Just as Brahmagupta composed two > different works so ?ryabha?a may have composed two works which > represented two different points of view. The second work may have > been cast in a traditional mold, may have been based on the old > _S?ryasiddh?nta_, or have formed a commentary upon it. > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata > [2] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-4 > [3] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-5 > [4] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-6 > [5] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-7 > [6] > https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Aryabhatiya_of_Aryabhata#cite_note-8 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ScolastiquesTableContents.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 513703 bytes Desc: not available URL: From evadeclercq at hotmail.com Thu Jan 7 11:34:55 2021 From: evadeclercq at hotmail.com (eva de clercq) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 21 11:34:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for applications for doctoral fellowship Message-ID: *Apologies for cross-posting* Dear colleagues, My best wishes for the new year. The South Asian Network Ghent Research group at Ghent University (https://research.flw.ugent.be/en/sangh) invites applications for a doctoral fellowship from students wishing to pursue a doctoral degree at our department. In addition to Jain Studies, our research group currently also hosts expertise in Indian Buddhism, South Asian literature (Sanskrit, Prakrit, Apabhramsha, Hindi) Indo-Aryan linguistics, and Indian Philosophy. As per the specialization of our research group, the envisaged doctoral project must engage with primary source material. Interested students are invited to send their CV and a short abstract describing their doctoral project. The candidates will apply for a doctoral fellowship through the Fund for Scientific Research ? Flanders (www.fwo.be), with a deadline of March 1st. Note that only candidates holding a Master?s degree from a university in the EEA and Switzerland can apply. Others will first need to seek recognition of their foreign qualifications through NARIC (https://www.naricvlaanderen.be/en/naric-vlaanderen). Please feel free to forward this information to any interested parties. Best regards, Eva Eva De Clercq Associate Professor South Asian languages and cultures Ghent University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scharfpm7 at gmail.com Fri Jan 8 04:14:56 2021 From: scharfpm7 at gmail.com (Peter Scharf) Date: Fri, 08 Jan 21 09:44:56 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Course_on_the_retelling_of_Ra=CC=84ma's_story_in_Sanskrit_literature,_and_course_in_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87inian_sandhi.?= Message-ID: Dear Indology list member, The Sanskrit Library is excited to announce two new courses beginning in mid-January: The retelling of ???'s story in Sanskrit literature. UG101. The epic ?????? is one of the two most celebrated epics in Indian tradition. It was composed by ???????? and consists of 24,000 verses. However, ????????'s ?????? is not the only version of the story of ???. The story appears in several versions in Sanskrit as well as in the regional language of India. The story of ??? is told as episodes in the ??????? and in ?????s. There are also independent compositions that retell the story in Sanskrit. There are Jain and Buddhist versions of the ?????? in Prakrit and Pali too. The story of ??? spread not only throughout India but also across South-east Asia. Taking into consideration the vast number of retellings of the story of ???, we will study only the Sanskrit versions in this course. It is important to study the various narrations of the story of ??? with reference to the original Sanskrit texts rather than translations and secondary sources. Doing so will help us re-examine popular opinions about the story and reveal the complexity of the transmission of this story and texts in general in Sanskrit. This will also help us understand the importance of and need to undertake philological analysis of Sanskrit literature. Instructor: Anuja Ajotikar and Tanuja Ajotikar . Prerequisite: familiarity with Sanskrit would be good. Familiarity with Sanskrit literature will also be sufficient. Schedule: 17th January 2021--8th April 2021 Course meeting times: Sunday and Thursday 9:00-10.30 am U.S. Central Time (IST 8.30pm-10.00pm). Course fee: $2000. Syllabus . Register . ??????an ????? rules CG21. This course offers an introduction to detailed study of ??????'s grammar with the study of five ????? rules beginning with reading the ??????????????? on these rules. Those who have learnt basics of ????????? grammar will enjoy this course by reading rules with the help of a commentary. A detailed description of each rule will be discussed in the course. The course will meet for an hour once a week for 10 weeks. The topics covered in the course are as follows Instructor: Tanuja P. Ajotikar . Prerequisite: US101?102 or equivalent introduction to Sanskrit, or CG20 Introduction to the ?????????tradition, or equivalent. Schedule: 16 January ? 20 March 2021 Course meeting times: Saturday 9:00-10:00am U.S. Central Time (IST 8:30pm-9:30pm). Course fee: $400. Syllabus . Register . Also see our other new courses beginning?this winter . To see the whole range of offerings please take a look at our course web page . Yours, Peter Scharf ****************************** Peter M. Scharf, President The Sanskrit Library scharf at sanskritlibrary.org https://sanskritlibrary.org ****************************** Peter Scharf scharfpm7 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danilov.dmitry.an at gmail.com Sat Jan 9 16:24:08 2021 From: danilov.dmitry.an at gmail.com (Danilov Dmitry) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 21 18:24:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Message-ID: Dear list members, I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the Western concept of "chaos". Best to all, Dmitry Danilov danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Jan 9 16:36:26 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 21 08:36:26 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear DAnilov, How about looking at the usage of the terms ??????? and ?????????? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied > the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the > Western concept of "chaos". > > Best to all, > Dmitry Danilov > danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon.peterson at mail.utoronto.ca Sat Jan 9 17:32:40 2021 From: jon.peterson at mail.utoronto.ca (Jonathan Peterson) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 21 17:32:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Re. Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Message-ID: Dear Dimitry, I can?t imagine this is the chaos you?re looking for, but for what it?s worth, the anti-M?dhva polemics of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries frequently accuse M?dhvas of engaging in a kind of exegetical chaos, evident in various phrases like ?vedavipl?vana,? ?m?m?m?s?vy?karan??dim?ry?dollan?ghanam,? and ?vedaved?n?g?di?u ucchr?n?khalam valgyate.? Best wishes, Jonathan Peterson University of Toronto From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Jan 9 17:40:48 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 21 17:40:48 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Re. Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dmitry, Putting aside the lexical question, for relevant mythology you may wish to consult Wendy O'Flaherty's The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology. The issue must also be broached in work on the Mahabharata and Bhagavadgita, where the collapse of social order is a paramount concern. Perhaps some others who are more familiar with epic studies than I might have some recommendations for you. good luck, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Jonathan Peterson via INDOLOGY Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 11:32 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] Re. Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Dear Dimitry, I can?t imagine this is the chaos you?re looking for, but for what it?s worth, the anti-M?dhva polemics of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries frequently accuse M?dhvas of engaging in a kind of exegetical chaos, evident in various phrases like ?vedavipl?vana,? ?m?m?m?s?vy?karan??dim?ry?dollan?ghanam,? and ?vedaved?n?g?di?u ucchr?n?khalam valgyate.? Best wishes, Jonathan Peterson University of Toronto _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sun Jan 10 04:29:18 2021 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 04:29:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Message-ID: <1610252539.S.16644.autosave.drafts.1610252958.30407@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr Dimitry.As far as "chaos" in Indian Philosophy is concerned, concepts   like "Vada , Jalpa , Vitanda" , being the Sanskrit equivalents of Argument and counter-arguement , as propounded in the  Nyay school of Indian Philosophy , may be  an answer to your query. Regards                 Alakendu Das  Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Sat, 9 Jan 2021 21:55:06 GMT+0530 To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Dear list members,  I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the Western concept of "chaos". Best to all, Dmitry Danilovdanilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 04:40:00 2021 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 21 21:40:00 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dmitry, When you refer to the Western concept of "chaos," I wonder if you mean the Greek idea of a primordial chaos from which the cosmos emerged. If so, we would have to think of the primeval "darkness" (tamas) in Sanskrit texts such as Rigveda 10.129. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied > the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the > Western concept of "chaos". > > Best to all, > Dmitry Danilov > danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sun Jan 10 07:58:36 2021 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 07:58:36 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Message-ID: <1610259868.S.5720.autosave.drafts.1610265516.14116@webmail.rediffmail.com> Mr.David and Nancy Riegle. The Primeval darkness which you have spoken of ,by way of referring to the Nasadiya Sukta or the Hymn of Creation(RV 10.129), I am not sure, whether it can be taken in an objective literal manner.The darkness which the hymn speaks of does not indicate "chaos"Rather, it indicates a highly articulated ,omnipresent ,unmanifested entity , beyond this veil of darkness.The hymn states-" Then there was neither Aught ,nor naught, ... neither Earth nor vault of heaven..."This seeming "nothingness" indicates "fullness" and "oneness"of  the cosmic soul variously called "HiranyaGarbha", .On the other hand, "Tamas" is one of the three qualities of "Prakriti" i.e.the Primordial Matter , and is a term used in the Samkhya school of Philosophy. Regards.            Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:10:52 GMT+0530 To: Danilov Dmitry <danilov.dmitry.an at gmail.com>, Indology <indology at list.indology.info> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy Dear Dmitry, When you refer to the Western concept of "chaos," I wonder if you mean the Greek idea of a primordial chaos from which the cosmos emerged. If so, we would have to think of the primeval "darkness" (tamas) in Sanskrit texts such as Rigveda 10.129. Best regards, David ReigleColorado, U.S.A. On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: Dear list members,  I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the Western concept of "chaos". Best to all, Dmitry Danilovdanilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acchoda at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:40:09 2021 From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 09:40:09 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_K=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=87a's_Ratnam=C4=81l=C4=81_(Pr=C4=81k=E1=B9=9Bt=3F_12c=3F_text=3F)?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am urgently seeking the text of a verse in the 2nd chapter (Ratna) of K???a's Ratnam?l?. The first 8 chapters (of 108) are translated by Forbes, JBBRAS IX, pp.20-?100. According to A.K. Majumdar, Chaulukyas of Gujarat, p. 418, this is an unpublished Prakrit text by an author of whom nothing is known other than his name. According to Majumdar, K???a's chronicle ends with Bh?ma II. I would be most grateful for any help in finding this text. Best wishes, David -- Dr David Smith Reader in South Asian Religions (retired) Lancaster University UK https://lancaster.academia.edu/DavidSmith acchoda at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acchoda at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:51:11 2021 From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 09:51:11 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_K=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=87a's_Ratnam=C4=81l=C4=81_(Pr=C4=81k=E1=B9=9Bt=3F_13c=3F_text=3F)?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Trying to be succinct in the heading of my post, I end up having to (again) emend a request. Bh?ma II's reign was of course in the 13c. Cheers, David -- Dr David Smith Reader in South Asian Religions (retired) Lancaster University UK https://lancaster.academia.edu/DavidSmith acchoda at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kingchunglo at cuhk.edu.hk Sun Jan 10 11:52:35 2021 From: kingchunglo at cuhk.edu.hk (King Chung Lo (PHI)) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 11:52:35 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Seek_for_the_roman_transcription_of_Jinendrabuddhi's_Vis=CC=81a=CC=84la=CC=84malavati=CC=84_Prama=CC=84n=CC=A3asamuccayat=CC=A3i=CC=84ka=CC=84?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, May I ask you for a soft copy of the roman transcription of Jinendrabuddhi's Vis?a?la?malavati? Prama?n?asamuccayat?i?ka?? It would be great if the file is in Word format. Thank you in advance! Best regards Lo, King Chung -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 17:25:52 2021 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 18:25:52 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PDF_of_Liebich:_Einf=C3=BChrung_indische_einheimische_Sprachwissenschaft=3F?= Message-ID: Dear all, Would any of you happen to have a pdf of the following? Bruno Liebich (1919) Zur Einf?hrung in die indische einheimische Sprachwissenschaft. Vol. II: Historische Einf?hrung und Dh?tup??ha. (which appeared as part of the Sitzungsberichte der Heidelberger Akademie der Wissenschaften (Philosophisch-historische Klasse).) As far as I can tell, archive.org only has Vols I and IV; and the Hathi Trust supposedly grants access via Harvard, but not to the extent that I can see actual pages. Many thanks, as always, Antonia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 17:35:03 2021 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 18:35:03 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09PDF_of_Liebich:_Einf=C3=BChrung_indische_einheimische_Sprachwissenschaft=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The thankest of thanks go to Victor D'Avella for not only replying to my email with the pdf I needed, but doing so more or less instantaneously! All the best, Antonia On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 at 18:25, Antonia Ruppel wrote: > Dear all, > > Would any of you happen to have a pdf of the following? > > Bruno Liebich (1919) Zur Einf?hrung in die indische einheimische > Sprachwissenschaft. Vol. II: Historische Einf?hrung und Dh?tup??ha. > > (which appeared as part of the Sitzungsberichte der Heidelberger Akademie > der Wissenschaften (Philosophisch-historische Klasse).) > > As far as I can tell, archive.org only has Vols I and IV; and the Hathi > Trust supposedly grants access via Harvard, but not to the extent that I > can see actual pages. > > Many thanks, as always, > Antonia > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at uw.edu Sun Jan 10 23:45:00 2021 From: rsalomon at uw.edu (Richard G. Salomon) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 15:45:00 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just working from memory, I think you might find something relevant in the following article by Harry Falk: 2009. ?Greek Style Dedications to an Indian God in Gandhara.? *Indo?Asiatische Zeitschrift* 13: 25?42. I seem to recall that he posits an identification of "Chaos" in a bilingual (Greek/Gandhari) inscription with Bhava = S'iva - or something along those lines. Rich Salomon On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied > the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the > Western concept of "chaos". > > Best to all, > Dmitry Danilov > danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Mon Jan 11 03:08:52 2021 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 21 19:08:52 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dmitry, If you are interested in social chaos, the obvious notion is the upheaval that arises in the Kali Yuga, but especially at the end of the Kali Yuga. The confusion of social classes, the var?a-sa?kara, where people from one var?a behave like those of a different var?a, is considered the worst offense, especially between the two extremes, when brahmans behave like ??dras and vice versa. There is also moral deterioration. This idea is put forth in the Mah?bh?rata, and later becomes common in the Pur??as. See Mbh 3.188 for a description of the social chaos, and Mbh 3.189 for how Kalki redresses the situation (this is the first mention of Kalki in the literature). The references are to the Critical Edition. You can see van Buitenen's translation in his vol 2, which includes books 2 & 3. Best, Luis UC, Berkeley On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > > I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied > the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the > Western concept of "chaos". > > Best to all, > Dmitry Danilov > danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Mon Jan 11 13:12:02 2021 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 14:12:02 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that not only darkness (tamas), but also flood (salila), beginning with (RV 1, 164.41, 10.129.3), and used, in later texts (up to Smrti cosmogonies) very consequently to conceive and express the pre-creative state of the world, which might correspond to the Greek concept of chaos. Maybe also the concepts of asat (RV 10.72.2, 10.129.4) as opposing to sat, cosmos. Regards, Joanna Jurewicz --- Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Studies Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa , Poland Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages College of Human Sciences UNISA Pretoria, RSA Member of Academia Europaea https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz pon., 11 sty 2021 o 04:09 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a): > Hi Dmitry, > > If you are interested in social chaos, the obvious notion is the upheaval > that arises in the Kali Yuga, but especially at the end of the Kali Yuga. > The confusion of social classes, the var?a-sa?kara, where people from one > var?a behave like those of a different var?a, is considered the worst > offense, especially between the two extremes, when brahmans behave like > ??dras and vice versa. There is also moral deterioration. > > This idea is put forth in the Mah?bh?rata, and later becomes common in the > Pur??as. See Mbh 3.188 for a description of the social chaos, and Mbh 3.189 > for how Kalki redresses the situation (this is the first mention of Kalki > in the literature). The references are to the Critical Edition. You can see > van Buitenen's translation in his vol 2, which includes books 2 & 3. > > Best, > > Luis > > UC, Berkeley > > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear list members, >> >> I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have >> studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar >> to the Western concept of "chaos". >> >> Best to all, >> Dmitry Danilov >> danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diegoloukota at ucla.edu Mon Jan 11 16:37:50 2021 From: diegoloukota at ucla.edu (DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 10:37:50 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Khotanese_S=C4=ABys=C4=81-/S=C4=ABysa=C4=81-:_th/dh_MIA_and_NIA_versions_of_the_name_of_S=C4=ABt=C4=81=3F?= Message-ID: Dear all, Long note here, please read at your own risk. The ca. 5th Century Khotanese Buddhist compendium, the so-called *Book of Zambasta,* contains a short but fascinating tirade against the Sanskrit epics (translation mine): *c? B?rat? py???u kye arth? samu tta?dya pa?jsa na?aune h?????ai p?ra Ka?sad?ysna bi??? ???ra jsat?nd?tt? v? bi??? Vy?ys? ri?ay? n?te K?l?asundhare b?s?hvanaino ?hau ha?baste tcamna lova bitandaR?m? Da?agr?vi S?ysau n?te La?gg? k?nthai b?stettye k???na j?v?tu rruste R?m?y?n? ttand? arthi Valm?ki r??ay? ha?baste ha?tsa dr?gyau h??e cv? lovi m?nya py???e samu ha?daraysa?thva karma* What has been heard by you in the *[Mah?]Bh?rata*, whose point [is] only that five men, Sons of a relative (?), [together] with Ka?sad?sa killed all the heroes, These [things] the seer Vy?sa, the servant of K???sundar?, gathered; He composed a fabulous tale by which the people of the world are misled. [From] R?ma Da?agr?va took S?t?, he led her to the city of La?k?, For this reason he lost his life. Such is the point of the *R?m?ya?a*. The seer Valm?ki composed it but together with lies. That the world listens to him with [any] respect is only [due to] the deeds of [his] other births. Many things are noteworthy here, especially the contemptuous tone that the text strikes by referring to K???a as the "slave of Ka?sa" (cfr. *Mbh* 9.60.27 *ka?sad?sasya d?yada* and *Vi??upur??a* 5.27.13) and by bringing up the Buddhist satirical version of the story of Vy?sa and Ambik?, which involves the former being infatuated with the latter, and the latter kicking him in response (cfr. *Buddhacarita* 4.16; *Saundarananda* 7.30). What interests me here, though, is the form of the name of S?t?. The Khotanese *S?ysau* should be acc.sing. for a *ka*-suffixed stem *S?ysa?*-=/ *si:za.a:*/ (*-a?>ak?*), but conceivably also for a simple thematic stem *S?ys?-=/si:za:/* (these generally end in -o, but even in Old Khotanese there is a noticeable o/au oscillation). In the much later "Khotanese *R?m?ya?a*" (9th Century?) the name appears as *S?js?-=/si:dza:/*, but this is probably an indigenous Khotanese development. To me the most promising way to explain the form S?ys? has to do with the vast number of G?ndh?r? loanwords present in Khotanese: in G?ndh?r? /z/ is, among others, the outcome of intervocalic OIA [th] and [dh], so that OIA *bodhi> *G?ndh?r? *=*/bozi/ *and OIA *?amatha> G?ndh?r? =*/??m?z?/*. The Khotanese form could be made sense of by postulating a source form **S?th?* or **S?dh?* (or **S?thak?*/**S?dhak?*) for a hypothetical G?ndh?r? *<*sisa*>=*/*si:za:*/, neither of which seems to be attested. **S?s?* would of course also be a candidate. However, under entry "13428. *s?t?* f. 'furrow, goddess of agriculture' " Turner's *Comparative Dictionary* mentions a form *sih?* 'furrow' from the Bhalesi language spoken in central Kashmir, which may conceivably act in support of my hypothesis in view of its geographic proximity to ancient Gandh?ra proper: here we would have [th/dh]>/h/ instead of Gandh?r? [th/dh]>/z/. Is anyone aware of (other) Middle Indo-Aryan or New Indo-Aryan versions of the name of S?t? that may point in a similar direction? *namaskaromi*, Diego Loukota - The University of Winnipeg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 11 16:46:04 2021 From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 11:46:04 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13F0D94B-8230-4579-B223-5D46C8339219@yahoo.com> Dear Dmitry, In addition to the excellent suggestions already given, you might also look into the concept of adharma. To the extent that dharma comes to take over the meaning of the Vedic ?ta, or cosmic order, adharma would suggest its opposite (and would fit well with some of the things already mentioned by others, such as the admixture of var?as in the Kali Yuga). All the best, Jeff Dr. Jeffery D. Long Carl W. Zeigler Professor of Religious Studies Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Ethical, Philosophical, and Theological Lexington Books ?One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life.? (Holy Mother Sarada Devi) ?We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.? (Carl Sagan) > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY > wrote: > Dear list members, > > I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar to the Western concept of "chaos". > > Best to all, > Dmitry Danilov > danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at lmu.de Mon Jan 11 17:07:45 2021 From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 18:07:45 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Khotanese_S=C4=ABys=C4=81-/S=C4=ABysa=C4=81-:_th/dh_MIA_and_NIA_versions_of_the_name_of_S=C4=ABt=C4=81=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87mtxffllq.fsf@lmu.de> Dear Diego, > The Khotanese form could be made sense of by postulating a > source form **S?th?* or **S?dh?* (or **S?thak?*/**S?dhak?*) for > a hypothetical G?ndh?r? *<*sisa*>=*/*si:za:*/ it is true that regularly in G between vowels, OIA th and dh develop to [z], while OIA t and d develop to [?]. Note, however, also Brough, G?ndh?r? Dharmapada, ? 43, where he suggests that the development th, dh > [z] proceeded via [?], and that palatal environments (as in S?t?) may have accelerated it. There are some few words in G proper where we have a [z] for expected [?], such as samughasa- < (apparently) OIA samudhgh?ta- in line 11 of the Senavarma inscription: https://gandhari.org/corpus/CKI0249 > " Turner's *Comparative Dictionary* mentions a form *sih?* > 'furrow' from the Bhalesi language spoken in central Kashmir That is interesting. All best, Stefan -- Stefan Baums, Ph.D. Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig?Maximilians?Universit?t M?nchen From diegoloukota at ucla.edu Mon Jan 11 17:59:37 2021 From: diegoloukota at ucla.edu (DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 11:59:37 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Khotanese_S=C4=ABys=C4=81-/S=C4=ABysa=C4=81-:_th/dh_MIA_and_NIA_versions_of_the_name_of_S=C4=ABt=C4=81_(DIEGO_LOUKOTA_SANCLEMENTE)?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Post Scriptum: One point I forgot to mention is the evidently related Tocharian A form *Sis? *(https://www.univie.ac.at/tocharian/?m-a10, b5: *sis??*)*. *D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 18:09:22 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 21 23:39:22 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chaos in Indian mythology and philosophy In-Reply-To: <13F0D94B-8230-4579-B223-5D46C8339219@yahoo.com> Message-ID: In Mircea Eliade, *Cosmos and History. The Myth of the Eternal Return*, trans. Willard R. Trask, New York: Harper & Brothers Publishers, 1954. (in English) , the word 'chaos' occurs 31 times. He repeatedly uses the phrase 'chaos to cosmos' to signify the cycle. He talks of vrtra in connection with chaos pp19-20. For the purposes of a global comparative mythology and philosophy of chaos including the 'Hindu', this book is a very good , a highly elaborate , if not exhaustive source. It discusses many concepts such as 'suffering' as related to chaos, the other 'end' /'side' of cosmos. On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 10:59 PM Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Dmitry, > > In addition to the excellent suggestions already given, you might also > look into the concept of adharma. To the extent that dharma comes to take > over the meaning of the Vedic ?ta, or cosmic order, adharma would suggest > its opposite (and would fit well with some of the things already mentioned > by others, such as the admixture of var?as in the Kali Yuga). > > All the best, > Jeff > > Dr. Jeffery D. Long > Carl W. Zeigler Professor of Religious Studies > Elizabethtown College > Elizabethtown, PA > > https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong > > Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Ethical, > Philosophical, and Theological > Lexington Books > > ?One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome > all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials > of life.? (Holy Mother Sarada Devi) > > ?We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.? (Carl Sagan) > > >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:25 AM Danilov Dmitry via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >>> Dear list members, >>> >>> I would be very thankful for any suggestions and works, which have >>> studied the concepts in Indian philosophy and religion related or similar >>> to the Western concept of "chaos". >>> >>> Best to all, >>> Dmitry Danilov >>> danilov.dmitry.a at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk Tue Jan 12 00:14:46 2021 From: BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk (Simon Brodbeck) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 21 00:14:46 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Seeking Reinvang PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Could anyone oblige me by sending a PDF copy of the following article? I have been unable to obtain it through the usual channels. Reinvang, R. 2000. ?A Critical Survey of the Dialogue between Y?j?avalkya and Maitrey? in B?had?ra?yaka Upani?ad 2.4 and 4.5.? Acta Orientalia (the Scandinavian one) 61: 145?202. Many thanks in advance ... from Simon Brodbeck (Cardiff University). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Jan 12 09:59:31 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 21 09:59:31 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balinese Hinduism Message-ID: Dear friends, Might you be able to shed light on just when it was that the designation "Hindu" first came to be applied to the religion of Bali, and what the local term(s) may have been beforehand? A small number of references would be most welcome as well. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrea.acri at ephe.sorbonne.fr Tue Jan 12 10:25:19 2021 From: andrea.acri at ephe.sorbonne.fr (Andrea Acri) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 21 11:25:19 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balinese Hinduism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, such terms as Agama Bali Hindu, Agama Hindu Bali, Agama Tirtha, etc., start to be attested in Balinese literature from the first two or three decades of the twentieth century. A recent and comprehensive discussion of this issue may be found in the book by Michel Picard, Kebalian : la construction dialogue de l?identity balinaise. Paris : Les Cahiers d?Archipel Vol. 44, 2017. Best, Andrea Andrea ACRI ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE), PSL University www.ephe.fr | www.univ-psl.fr ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient (EFEO) Project DHARMA, ERC Synergy 809994 https://dharma.hypotheses.org Publications at: www.ephe.academia.edu/AndreaAcri > Le 12 janv. 2021 ? 10:59, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > Dear friends, > > Might you be able to shed light on just when it was that the designation "Hindu" first came to be applied to the religion of Bali, and what the local term(s) may have been beforehand? A small number of references would be most welcome as well. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Tue Jan 12 14:20:36 2021 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 21 15:20:36 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balinese Hinduism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, See in this connection also an earlier publication by H. Schulte Nordholt: SCHULTE NORDHOLT, H. 1994. ?The making of traditional Bali: Colonial ethnography and bureaucratic reproduction.? *History and Anthropology*, vol. 8: 89-127. I neither have a scan nor do I have access to my physical photocopy of the article... Best wishes for the new year, Jan On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 11:26, Andrea Acri via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Matthew, > > such terms as Agama Bali Hindu, Agama Hindu Bali, Agama Tirtha, etc., > start to be attested in Balinese literature from the first two or three > decades of the twentieth century. > > A recent and comprehensive discussion of this issue may be found in the > book by Michel Picard, *Kebalian : la construction dialogue de l?identity > balinaise*. Paris : Les Cahiers d?Archipel Vol. 44, 2017. > > Best, > > Andrea > > > *Andrea ACRI* > *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE), PSL University * > www.ephe.fr | www.univ-psl.fr > > *?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient (EFEO)* > Project DHARMA, ERC Synergy 809994 > https://dharma.hypotheses.org > > Publications at: www.ephe.academia.edu/AndreaAcri > > > Le 12 janv. 2021 ? 10:59, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit : > > Dear friends, > > Might you be able to shed light on just when it was that the designation > "Hindu" first came to be applied to the religion of Bali, and what the > local term(s) may have been beforehand? A small number of references would > be most welcome as well. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Tue Jan 12 19:22:14 2021 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 21 20:22:14 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Vikram=C4=81=E1=B9=85k=C4=81bhyudaya?= Message-ID: <3dde5d085e6a5a3631063e49ec00a765@fabularasa.dk> Dear friends and colleagues, I am looking to access a copy of the Vikram??k?bhyudaya by Some?vara III. An edition was published as "Vikram??k?bhyudayam of Some?vara" by M. L. Nagar in Gaekwad?s Oriental Series, no. 150. I have looked in vain in all the usual places online, and would be grateful for any pointers toward a digital copy. Best regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Wed Jan 13 15:27:09 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 15:27:09 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: <196035960.890756.1610551629050.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <196035960.890756.1610551629050@mail.yahoo.com> Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Thanks, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 15:31:22 2021 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 16:31:22 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: <196035960.890756.1610551629050@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dean, This has been my go-to for years: https://keyman.com/keyboards/heidelberginputsolution It is free, works on PC and Mac, and allows you to type nagari and transliteration in exactly the same way. You simply download the transliteration and devanagari 'keyboards', and can define shortcuts with which to activate whichever keyboard you want at any given moment. All best, Antonia On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 at 16:27, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily > create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Thanks, > > Dean > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 15:50:16 2021 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 21:20:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: <196035960.890756.1610551629050@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Namaste Dean, If you are a linux user, Ibus-m17n would work just fine with IAST diacritics for all programs. If I have to convert some small patches to specific transliteration, I write in Devanagari / SLP1 and get it converted at https://learnsanskrit.org/tools/sanscript . Hope this helps. On Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 20:58 Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY, < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily > create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Thanks, > > Dean > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 16:13:38 2021 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 11:13:38 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: <196035960.890756.1610551629050@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Dean, If you use microsoft word its quite easy to create a word template with keyboard shortcuts to create the diacriticals. If you use libreoffice (an open source program like microsoft office) you can create macros to convert from harvard-kyoto to diacriticals. If you need more details then just contact me. Harry Spier On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:27 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily > create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Thanks, > > Dean > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 18:03:18 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 23:33:18 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/sanskrit_latin.htm is an online tool. On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 9:44 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Dean, > If you use microsoft word its quite easy to create a word template with > keyboard shortcuts to create the diacriticals. If you use libreoffice (an > open source program like microsoft office) you can create macros to convert > from harvard-kyoto to diacriticals. If you need more details then just > contact me. > Harry Spier > > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:27 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily >> create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dean >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Wed Jan 13 18:55:44 2021 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 19:55:44 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Vikram=C4=81=E1=B9=85k=C4=81bhyudaya?= In-Reply-To: <3dde5d085e6a5a3631063e49ec00a765@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: Many thanks to everybody who responded to my query offlist! I now have everything I needed and more! Best wishes, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY skrev den 2021-01-12 20:22: > Dear friends and colleagues, > > I am looking to access a copy of the Vikram??k?bhyudaya by Some?vara > III. An edition was published as "Vikram??k?bhyudayam of Some?vara" by > M. L. Nagar in Gaekwad?s Oriental Series, no. 150. I have looked in > vain in all the usual places online, and would be grateful for any > pointers toward a digital copy. > > Best regards, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Denmark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From kushdepala at gmail.com Wed Jan 13 21:49:46 2021 From: kushdepala at gmail.com (Kush Depala) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 21 22:49:46 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CfP Spalding Symposium on Indian Religions, deadline 22 Jan Message-ID: Dear Indology list members, A reminder that the CfP deadline is in ten days' time. Apologies for cross-posting. Call for papers: 2021 Spalding Symposium *Spalding Symposium on Indian Religions* Call for Papers ? Deadline 22 January 2021: We invite proposals for papers for the 46th Spalding Symposium on Indian Religions, which will be held *online*, on 23-25 April 2021. Our purview includes both religions of South Asian origin wherever in the world they are being practised, and those of non South Asian origin present within South Asia. We welcome papers based upon all research methods, including textual, historical, ethnographic, sociological and philosophical. Presenters are allocated forty minutes for their paper and twenty minutes for discussion. There is no conference fee, but all presenters and attendees must register. We also welcome proposals from doctoral students, who will be allocated twenty minutes for their paper and ten minutes for discussion. We are delighted to announce our keynote speakers: - Dr Jacqueline Suthren Hirst, who recently retired from Manchester University, UK - Prof. Oliver Freiberger of the University of Texas at Austin, USA If you would like to give a presentation, please send a title and abstract (maximum 500 words) to the Spalding Symposium committee: spaldingsymposium1 at gmail.com, by 22 January 2021. Best wishes, Kush on behalf of the Spalding Symposium organising committee The Spalding Symposium organising committee: Dr Avni Chag (a.chag at soas.ac.uk), Dr Karen O'Brien-Kop ( Karen.OBrien-Kop at roehampton.ac.uk), Dr Brian Black (b.black at lancaster.ac.uk ), and Kush Depala (kush.depala at stud.uni-heidelberg.de). Kush -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acchoda at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 08:57:44 2021 From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 08:57:44 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Seeking extract from Gustav Roth Festschrift 1998 Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I'm seeking a pdf of an article M.N. Tiwari and Kamal Giri,' Some rare sculptures from Modhera', in Facets of Indian culture: Gustav Roth felicitation volume; published on the occasion of his 82nd birthday, ed. by C. P. Sinha et al. Patna 1998, pp. 326-334, 5 figs. Best wishes, David -- Dr David Smith Reader in South Asian Religions (retired) Lancaster University UK https://lancaster.academia.edu/DavidSmith acchoda at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Thu Jan 14 16:02:49 2021 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:02:49 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= Message-ID: Dear list, Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark From james.hartzell at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 16:24:36 2021 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:24:36 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jacob >From the Sanskrit text translation work I've done on measurements, the a?gula or finger-width measurement is specific to the individual. My finger widths differ from yours or my wife's, etc., but when I measure distances on my body using my finger widths, those will match the same distances on my wife's body using her finger widths. I've tested this quite a few times and was a bit astonished to find it consistently true. Others may differ (I'm very interested to hear if that's so), but the idea as I understand it is that an a?gula is personal measurement, not a standardized measurement like a metre/meter, cm, mm, inch, etc. In this sense there is no uncertainty involved, just inter-individual variation. No doubt there's more to this topic, but this is my bit I can comment on. Cheers James On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list, > > Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric > system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather > take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties > that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the > internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. > > Best, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Denmark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Jan 14 16:42:06 2021 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 16:42:06 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: James: There are numerous instances where a?gula is not personal but an objective measure: See Artha??stra, 2.11.76, 80, 84; 2.19.11, 12 etc. I have assumed it to be approximately 2 cm long. Patrick On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:24 AM, James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > wrote: Hi Jacob >From the Sanskrit text translation work I've done on measurements, the a?gula or finger-width measurement is specific to the individual. My finger widths differ from yours or my wife's, etc., but when I measure distances on my body using my finger widths, those will match the same distances on my wife's body using her finger widths. I've tested this quite a few times and was a bit astonished to find it consistently true. Others may differ (I'm very interested to hear if that's so), but the idea as I understand it is that an a?gula is personal measurement, not a standardized measurement like a metre/meter, cm, mm, inch, etc. In this sense there is no uncertainty involved, just inter-individual variation. No doubt there's more to this topic, but this is my bit I can comment on. Cheers James On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear list, Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 16:41:50 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 22:11:50 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Telugu word for 'inch' is a Sanskrit borrowing angulam. https://www.themysteriousindia.net/ancient-indian-units-of-length-measurement/ has The Indus Inch The Indus civilisation unit of length, widely known as *Indus Inch *was 1.32 Inches which is exactly equal to 2 *Angulas* of 16.764mm each. This is from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315674325_Length_and_area_measurement_system_in_India_through_the_ages https://www.jstor.org/stable/44140603?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents LAND MEASUREMENT IN ANCIENT INDIA (c. 324 B. C.-A. D. 326) (Summary) N. N. Kher On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:55 PM James Hartzell via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Hi Jacob > > From the Sanskrit text translation work I've done on measurements, the > a?gula or finger-width measurement is specific to the individual. My finger > widths differ from yours or my wife's, etc., but when I measure distances > on my body using my finger widths, those will match the same distances on > my wife's body using her finger widths. I've tested this quite a few times > and was a bit astonished to find it consistently true. Others may differ > (I'm very interested to hear if that's so), but the idea as I understand it > is that an a?gula is personal measurement, not a standardized measurement > like a metre/meter, cm, mm, inch, etc. In this sense there is no > uncertainty involved, just inter-individual variation. > > No doubt there's more to this topic, but this is my bit I can comment on. > > Cheers > James > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear list, >> >> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric >> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather >> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties >> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the >> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. >> >> Best, >> Jacob >> >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Denmark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD (2x) > Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy > Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 16:52:32 2021 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:52:32 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patrick: Very interesting, thanks. Do you think in the 'objective'-use instances of the terms the tradition somehow developed an 'average' version of the personal measurements? I've worked mostly on yogic-tradition related texts, where the term a?gula was used mostly for personal body measurements (length of arm, elbow to wrist, distance between cakras, etc). James On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:42 PM Olivelle, J P wrote: > James: > > There are numerous instances where a?gula is not personal but an objective > measure: > > See Artha??stra, 2.11.76, 80, 84; 2.19.11, 12 etc. I have assumed it to be > approximately 2 cm long. > > > Patrick > > > > > On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:24 AM, James Hartzell via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Hi Jacob > > From the Sanskrit text translation work I've done on measurements, the > a?gula or finger-width measurement is specific to the individual. My finger > widths differ from yours or my wife's, etc., but when I measure distances > on my body using my finger widths, those will match the same distances on > my wife's body using her finger widths. I've tested this quite a few times > and was a bit astonished to find it consistently true. Others may differ > (I'm very interested to hear if that's so), but the idea as I understand it > is that an a?gula is personal measurement, not a standardized measurement > like a metre/meter, cm, mm, inch, etc. In this sense there is no > uncertainty involved, just inter-individual variation. > > No doubt there's more to this topic, but this is my bit I can comment on. > > Cheers > James > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear list, >> >> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric >> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather >> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties >> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the >> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. >> >> Best, >> Jacob >> >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Denmark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD (2x) > Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy > Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << > matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << > > > -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de Thu Jan 14 17:15:17 2021 From: michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:15:17 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, If a?gula would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (puru?a) would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 approx. 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate anthropometrically in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male was between 160 and 175 cm, a?gula would be approx. 1,6 cm. This implies that a?gula might not be the breadth of a thumb but of the middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (a?gulaparvan). Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In the ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 a?gula is often equal to 34 tila (Sesamum indicum) or 14 a?u (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 resp. 8 yava (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a better result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present seeds are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. More on this in my Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. Best, Axel Michaels From: INDOLOGY on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info" Reply to: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" Date: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 To: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: [INDOLOGY] A?gula Dear list, Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rembert at ochs.org.uk Thu Jan 14 17:16:44 2021 From: rembert at ochs.org.uk (Rembert Lutjeharms) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:16:44 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Am=E1=B9=9Btam_and_vi=E1=B9=A3am_letters?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, In his "Hindu Manners, Customs and Ceremonies", J.A. Dubois (pp. 395-96, of the 1906 third edition), while writing about "The Poetry of the Hindus", states the following: "In an idolatrous country everything necessarily tends towards superstition. The poets of India, therefore, hold some letters to be of good and others of ill omen. The ambrosial letters (amritam) come under the head of the former, while the poisonous letters (visham) belong to the latter class. This distinction, however, is not observed in the poems in praise of the gods, who are supposed to be beyond such influences. But in verses which concern simple mortals the case is very different. Particular care must be taken never to begin any verse addressed to them with a visham or unlucky letter. In the Telugu and Canarese languages, the letters ke, ki, pe, pi, te, ti, etc. are of this number, because these letters when written have the point turned downwards. On the other hand, the letters ko, po, to, etc. are considered to be lucky letters (amritam), because they have the point turned upwards." I was intrigued by this comment, since it is rare to find discussions on the visual aspect of language compared to how often language is treated as essentially aural, in a Sanskrit or Hindu context. The distinction Dubois mentions seems purely based on the visual appearance of these syllables in Telugu and Kannada scripts, not on their sounds (and is thus quite different from the discussion, common in Sanskrit poetics, about the importance in poetry of specific syllables based on their sound, as in the concept of rasa-related gu?as). As is common, Dubois gives no reference for this distinction and its use in poetry, and has nothing further to say about it than what I have copied above. Presumably he was informed about this by the people he knew. Is this distinction between vi?am and am?tam letters made in any other source? I'd be interested in finding out more about this. I have so far been unable to find anything else on this, though my search has been constrained by my lack of knowledge of either Telugu or Kannada. I would appreciate any references, whether to primary texts or academic works. Best wishes, Rembert -- Dr. Rembert Lutjeharms Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies 13-15 Magdalen Street Oxford OX1 3AE United Kingdom Tel.: +44 (0)1865 304300 From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Jan 14 17:20:04 2021 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 17:20:04 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <50B200DE-5F49-4BE1-9BEF-A9732232369D@austin.utexas.edu> Yes ? like foot ? probably developed an objective length from a previous subjective measurement. Even today, I have seen workers take a rough measurement outdoors for fences etc but putting one foot after the other to arrive at X number of feet. But I think in many ??stric works ?a?gula? has a specific meaning. On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:52 AM, James Hartzell > wrote: Patrick: Very interesting, thanks. Do you think in the 'objective'-use instances of the terms the tradition somehow developed an 'average' version of the personal measurements? I've worked mostly on yogic-tradition related texts, where the term a?gula was used mostly for personal body measurements (length of arm, elbow to wrist, distance between cakras, etc). James On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:42 PM Olivelle, J P > wrote: James: There are numerous instances where a?gula is not personal but an objective measure: See Artha??stra, 2.11.76, 80, 84; 2.19.11, 12 etc. I have assumed it to be approximately 2 cm long. Patrick On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:24 AM, James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > wrote: Hi Jacob >From the Sanskrit text translation work I've done on measurements, the a?gula or finger-width measurement is specific to the individual. My finger widths differ from yours or my wife's, etc., but when I measure distances on my body using my finger widths, those will match the same distances on my wife's body using her finger widths. I've tested this quite a few times and was a bit astonished to find it consistently true. Others may differ (I'm very interested to hear if that's so), but the idea as I understand it is that an a?gula is personal measurement, not a standardized measurement like a metre/meter, cm, mm, inch, etc. In this sense there is no uncertainty involved, just inter-individual variation. No doubt there's more to this topic, but this is my bit I can comment on. Cheers James On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear list, Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmdelire at ulb.ac.be Thu Jan 14 18:05:17 2021 From: jmdelire at ulb.ac.be (jmdelire) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 19:05:17 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <99ab29776de1ee7c6c6dfa47b12f42c4@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Hi, Everybody, First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very happy year 2021. The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u (I,3-4 Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too seriously. The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern view) as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb 10.1.2.6-7 (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped all this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, 2016) and in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the approximation of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. All the best, Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB (University of Brussels) Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, > > If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) > would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 approx. > 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate anthropometrically > in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male was > between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This > implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of the > middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). > > Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In the > ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 > _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 resp. > 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a better > result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, > whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present seeds > are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. > > More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie_ > (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. > > Best, > > Axel Michaels > > FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of > "indology at list.indology.info" > REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" > DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 > TO: "indology at list.indology.info" > SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula > > Dear list, > > Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the > metric > > system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather > > take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the > uncertainties > > that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the > > internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. > > Best, > > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > > Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > Denmark > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From brahmilipi at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 18:38:09 2021 From: brahmilipi at gmail.com (Anirban Dash) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 00:08:09 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jacob ji saptaparam??uyog?d a?urebhi?341 saptabhi? ca s?k?maraja?342 / saptarajobhi? ?a?arajas tat saptabhir e?ak???aka? sadbhi? // [2] An a?u (atom) is the combination of seven param??u, a combination of seven a?u (is) one s?k?maraja (molecule), with (combination of) seven s?k?marajas (there is) one ?a?arajas, with the combination of seven ?a?arajas (there is) one e?akarajas. ?????? ???????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ? ???????????? ?? ??? ????????????? ?? [?] saptai?akarajobhir goraja iti saptabhi? ca y?k? sy?t / y?k?saptasameto yava iti sa?khy?nam ?y?ti // [3] With the (union) of seven e?akarajas, (there is) one goraja, in this manner (the union of seven gorajas) is one y?k? and union of seven y?k?s is one yava. 338 N2: lak?a?amantrai? ?ubha? 339 N2: ?gamak?su 340 N1: Verses from 1 to 9 are missing 341 L: a??aribhyo? 342 N2: suraja? The Buddha, who has a compassionate mind (bodhicitta), clearly communicated the proper measurements for dwellings and auspicious characteristics of the ma??alas sections of traditional doctrine. 101 | P a g e ???????????????? ???????????????? ????????? ???????? ?? ?????????????????????? ???????? ???????? ???? ??[?] saptayavair a?gulik? madhy????ayavais tu s???gul? jye??h? / pa?cayavagu?it???gulik? vikhy?t? kanyas? bhadr?343/ / [4] A madhy??gul? (middle finger ), is, seven yavas while a combination of eight yavas is one jye?????gul? (index finger), An a?gulik? (ring finger) is considered small and auspicious, which is five times of a yava and also auspicious. ?????? ???????????? ???????????? ???????????? ????? ?????? ? ????????????????????? ?????? ????????? ????????? ??[?] t?bhi? dv?da?abhir v? vitastir iti dvigu?itena hasta? sy?t / kanyasamadhyamajye??h?? trividh? hast?s tu var?abhedena // [5] A vitasti is a (combination of) these twelve (a?gul?), (and) twice (a vitasti) is called a hasta (palm to elbow length). The hand is three-folds with distinction in size i.e. short, medium and long. On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 9:33 PM, Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list, > > Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the metric > system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather > take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the uncertainties > that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the > internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. > > Best, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Denmark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- With best regards, Anirban Dash Department of Pali and Buddhist Studies University of Pune, Ganeshkhind, Pune - 411007, Maharashtra, India Mobile : 91 + 7769 934157 (PUNE) 91 + 9839 482298 (VARANASI) Skype: brahmilipi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Thu Jan 14 18:42:34 2021 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 19:42:34 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: <99ab29776de1ee7c6c6dfa47b12f42c4@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Message-ID: A?gulim?la A murderous robber "wearing a necklace of [human] fingers", known from Buddhist sources. Question: Apart from Angulimala, is there any mention in ancient Indian texts of someone wearing a finger necklace? Is there - perhaps - any mention of someone wearing a measuring tape around their neck? With New Year's Greetings, Artur Karp University of Warsaw Retired Senior Lecturer Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> czw., 14 sty 2021 o 19:06 jmdelire via INDOLOGY napisa?(a): > Hi, Everybody, > > First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very > happy year 2021. > The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u (I,3-4 > Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too seriously. > The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by > Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern view) > as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb 10.1.2.6-7 > (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped all > this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, 2016) and > in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the approximation > of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus > (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and > Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. > > All the best, > > Jean Michel Delire, > Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB > (University of Brussels) > > > Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, > > > > If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) > > would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 approx. > > 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate anthropometrically > > in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male was > > between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This > > implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of the > > middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). > > > > Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In the > > ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 > > _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 resp. > > 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a better > > result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, > > whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present seeds > > are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. > > > > More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen Sakralgeometrie_ > > (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. > > > > Best, > > > > Axel Michaels > > > > FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of > > "indology at list.indology.info" > > REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" > > DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 > > TO: "indology at list.indology.info" > > SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula > > > > Dear list, > > > > Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the > > metric > > > > system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but rather > > > > take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the > > uncertainties > > > > that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on the > > > > internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. > > > > Best, > > > > Jacob > > > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > > > > Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > > > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > > > > University of Copenhagen > > > > Denmark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > > > http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > > > Links: > > ------ > > [1] http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > > or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Thu Jan 14 19:10:04 2021 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 20:10:04 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow, thanks to everybody for the overwhelming response to my query on- and offlist! I now feel on much better footing when evaluating the use of a?gula in the text I'm currently reading. Best wishes to all, Jacob Artur Karp via INDOLOGY skrev den 2021-01-14 19:42: > A?gulim?la > > A murderous robber "wearing a necklace of [human] fingers", known from > Buddhist sources. > > Question: Apart from Angulimala, is there any mention in ancient > Indian texts of someone wearing a finger necklace? > > Is there - perhaps - any mention of someone wearing a measuring tape > around their neck? > > With New Year's Greetings, > > Artur Karp > > University of Warsaw > Retired Senior Lecturer > > [1] > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] > > czw., 14 sty 2021 o 19:06 jmdelire via INDOLOGY > napisa?(a): > >> Hi, Everybody, >> >> First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very >> happy year 2021. >> The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u >> (I,3-4 >> Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too >> seriously. >> The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by >> >> Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern >> view) >> as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb >> 10.1.2.6-7 >> (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped >> all >> this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, >> 2016) and >> in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the >> approximation >> of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus >> (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and >> Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. >> >> All the best, >> >> Jean Michel Delire, >> Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB >> >> (University of Brussels) >> >> Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit : >>> Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, >>> >>> If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) >>> would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 >> approx. >>> 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate >> anthropometrically >>> in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male >> was >>> between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This >>> implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of >> the >>> middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). >>> >>> Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In >> the >>> ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 >>> _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 >> resp. >>> 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a >> better >>> result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, >>> whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present >> seeds >>> are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. >>> >>> More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen >> Sakralgeometrie_ >>> (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Axel Michaels >>> >>> FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of >>> "indology at list.indology.info" >>> REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" >>> DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 >>> TO: "indology at list.indology.info" >>> SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula >>> >>> Dear list, >>> >>> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the >>> metric >>> >>> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but >> rather >>> >>> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the >>> uncertainties >>> >>> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on >> the >>> >>> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Jacob >>> >>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>> >>> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology >>> >>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>> >>> University of Copenhagen >>> >>> Denmark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options >>> or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options or unsubscribe) > > [1] > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From karp at uw.edu.pl Thu Jan 14 20:06:35 2021 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 21:06:35 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any term, please, for 'tape measure' / 'measuring tape'? Artur Karp Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> czw., 14 sty 2021 o 20:10 Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a): > Wow, thanks to everybody for the overwhelming response to my query on- > and offlist! > > I now feel on much better footing when evaluating the use of a?gula in > the text I'm currently reading. > > Best wishes to all, > > Jacob > > Artur Karp via INDOLOGY skrev den 2021-01-14 19:42: > > A?gulim?la > > > > A murderous robber "wearing a necklace of [human] fingers", known from > > Buddhist sources. > > > > Question: Apart from Angulimala, is there any mention in ancient > > Indian texts of someone wearing a finger necklace? > > > > Is there - perhaps - any mention of someone wearing a measuring tape > > around their neck? > > > > With New Year's Greetings, > > > > Artur Karp > > > > University of Warsaw > > Retired Senior Lecturer > > > > [1] > > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] > > > > czw., 14 sty 2021 o 19:06 jmdelire via INDOLOGY > > napisa?(a): > > > >> Hi, Everybody, > >> > >> First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very > >> happy year 2021. > >> The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u > >> (I,3-4 > >> Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too > >> seriously. > >> The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by > >> > >> Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern > >> view) > >> as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb > >> 10.1.2.6-7 > >> (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped > >> all > >> this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, > >> 2016) and > >> in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the > >> approximation > >> of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus > >> (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and > >> Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Jean Michel Delire, > >> Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB > >> > >> (University of Brussels) > >> > >> Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > >>> Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, > >>> > >>> If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) > >>> would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 > >> approx. > >>> 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate > >> anthropometrically > >>> in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male > >> was > >>> between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This > >>> implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of > >> the > >>> middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). > >>> > >>> Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In > >> the > >>> ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 > >>> _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 > >> resp. > >>> 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a > >> better > >>> result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, > >>> whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present > >> seeds > >>> are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. > >>> > >>> More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen > >> Sakralgeometrie_ > >>> (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Axel Michaels > >>> > >>> FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of > >>> "indology at list.indology.info" > >>> REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" > >>> DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 > >>> TO: "indology at list.indology.info" > >>> SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula > >>> > >>> Dear list, > >>> > >>> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the > >>> metric > >>> > >>> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but > >> rather > >>> > >>> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the > >>> uncertainties > >>> > >>> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on > >> the > >>> > >>> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Jacob > >>> > >>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > >>> > >>> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology > >>> > >>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > >>> > >>> University of Copenhagen > >>> > >>> Denmark > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>> > >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>> > >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > >>> committee) > >>> > >>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list > >>> options or unsubscribe) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Links: > >>> ------ > >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > >> > >>> committee) > >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > >> options > >>> or unsubscribe) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> INDOLOGY mailing list > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > >> committee) > >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > >> options or unsubscribe) > > > > [1] > > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] > > > > > > > > Links: > > ------ > > [1] > > > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > > or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyler.g.neill at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 00:10:01 2021 From: tyler.g.neill at gmail.com (Tyler Neill) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 21 19:10:01 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] contacting Shodo Yamakami, learning about Swami Yogindrananda Message-ID: Dear List, I am interested in asking Shodo YAMAKAMI about certain of his work on Bh?sarvaj?a's Ny?yabh??a?a. I'm familiar with his personal website, but I cannot find his contact info anywhere. If anyone happens to know him personally, could I please request that my email address be passed on to him with a message that I am interested in being in touch? This concerns a certain e-text of the Ny?yabh??a?a, based on the edition by Yogindrananda, that I have been working with for the last few years. If anyone else ever involved in producing such an e-text is also listening, I'd also be interested in talking with you. My hope is to get a working version of this text in general circulation soon. Finally, if anyone has suggestions for learning more biographical details about Swami Yogindrananda himself, I'd appreciate that very much, too. With thanks in advance, Tyler Neill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in Fri Jan 15 03:16:59 2021 From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 08:46:59 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit position at Ashoka University In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All Ashoka University is seeking to appoint a Sanskritist, at either the Assistant Professor or Associate Professor level. The application deadline is two months from now: March 15th. Application details are given here: https://facultypositions.ashoka.edu.in/JD/Sanskrit_JD_20-21.pdf Note that this is a different position from the one in Indian Philosophy that I posted about recently. Yours Alex -- Alex Watson Professor of Indian Philosophy Ashoka University *https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik at haas.asia Fri Jan 15 03:46:09 2021 From: dominik at haas.asia (Dominik Haas) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 04:46:09 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] REMINDER: CfP IIGRS12 Message-ID: <77a38b2f-592c-4e20-0b77-bac216869fc5@haas.asia> Dear colleagues, we would kindly like to remind you of the CfP for the *12th International Indology Graduate Research Symposium* (IIGRS 12), which will be held in Vienna, Austria, from July 22nd to 24th, 2021. The deadline for submissions is *January 31st*. Please find the full CfP attached. Moreover, we are delighted to announce our keynote speaker: Prof. Dr. J?rgen Hanneder of the Philipps University of Marburg Best regards, D. Haas on behalf of the IIGRS12 team __________________ *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA* DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences | PhD Candidate, University of Vienna dominik at haas.asia | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 follow my work on univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences Hollandstra?e 11?13, 1020 Vienna, Austria oeaw.ac.at/ikga 12th International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS 12) July 22?24, 2021, Vienna, Austria iigrs.wordpress.com iigrsuk at googlemail.com The Initiative for Fair Open Access Publishing in South Asian Studies | foasas.org contact at foasas.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: iigrs12_cfp.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 223620 bytes Desc: not available URL: From piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 07:30:46 2021 From: piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 08:30:46 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Message-ID: Dear Dean, I am not sure which OS you use. If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with *IBUS* for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus), as a sub-part of the *m17n* library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://balcerowicz.eu/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dean Michael Anderson To: Indology List Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:27:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Thanks, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acchoda at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 11:15:21 2021 From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 11:15:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Seeking extract from Gustav Roth Festschrift 1998 Message-ID: M.N. Tiwari and Kamal Giri,' Some rare sculptures from Modhera', in Facets of Indian culture: Gustav Roth felicitation volume; published on the occasion of his 82nd birthday, ed. by C. P. Sinha et al. Patna 1998, pp. 326-334, 5 figs. A colleague has very kindly just sent me the pdf. David -- Dr David Smith Reader in South Asian Religions (retired) Lancaster University UK https://lancaster.academia.edu/DavidSmith acchoda at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Fri Jan 15 11:20:33 2021 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 11:20:33 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1534764075.1331874.1610709633224@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 17:08:25 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 22:38:25 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ???????? , ???????? , ?????????? , ?????????? 1) ?????, ?????? da??a?, da??am (p. 799 ) ...on MS.10.5.83; ???? ind. in the manner of a *measuring* *rod.* -????? Infliction of punishment; ????????????? ????????? Kau. A.4. -???? a raven. -??????? a wooden club or staff; ????????????????? ?????? ?2. -??????? assumption of the staff... 2) ???? m?na? (p. 1261 ) ...Object, purpose. -??? [??-??????] 1 *Measuring.* -2 A measure, standard; ????- ???? ?????????? M?m??s?; ?????????????????????????????? A. R?m.7.5.57. -3 Dimension, computation. -4 A standard of measure, *measuring* *rod,* rule; ??????? ????????? ??????- ??????????????? ?ukra.2.344. 3) ?????? ?a?ku? (p. 1528 ) -5 The trunk (of a lopped tree), stump, pollard. -6 The pin of a dial. -7 A measure of twelve fingers. -8 A *measuring-rod.* -9 The sine of altitude (in astr.). -10 Ten billions. -11 The fibres of a leaf; ??? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? Ch. Up... On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 1:40 AM Artur Karp via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Any term, please, for 'tape measure' / 'measuring tape'? > > Artur Karp > > > Wolny > od wirus?w. www.avast.com > > <#m_-5337425703442148610_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > czw., 14 sty 2021 o 20:10 Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a): > >> Wow, thanks to everybody for the overwhelming response to my query on- >> and offlist! >> >> I now feel on much better footing when evaluating the use of a?gula in >> the text I'm currently reading. >> >> Best wishes to all, >> >> Jacob >> >> Artur Karp via INDOLOGY skrev den 2021-01-14 19:42: >> > A?gulim?la >> > >> > A murderous robber "wearing a necklace of [human] fingers", known from >> > Buddhist sources. >> > >> > Question: Apart from Angulimala, is there any mention in ancient >> > Indian texts of someone wearing a finger necklace? >> > >> > Is there - perhaps - any mention of someone wearing a measuring tape >> > around their neck? >> > >> > With New Year's Greetings, >> > >> > Artur Karp >> > >> > University of Warsaw >> > Retired Senior Lecturer >> > >> > [1] >> > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] >> > >> > czw., 14 sty 2021 o 19:06 jmdelire via INDOLOGY >> > napisa?(a): >> > >> >> Hi, Everybody, >> >> >> >> First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very >> >> happy year 2021. >> >> The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u >> >> (I,3-4 >> >> Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too >> >> seriously. >> >> The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by >> >> >> >> Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern >> >> view) >> >> as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb >> >> 10.1.2.6-7 >> >> (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped >> >> all >> >> this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, >> >> 2016) and >> >> in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the >> >> approximation >> >> of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus >> >> (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and >> >> Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. >> >> >> >> All the best, >> >> >> >> Jean Michel Delire, >> >> Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB >> >> >> >> (University of Brussels) >> >> >> >> Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit : >> >>> Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, >> >>> >> >>> If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) >> >>> would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 >> >> approx. >> >>> 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate >> >> anthropometrically >> >>> in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male >> >> was >> >>> between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This >> >>> implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of >> >> the >> >>> middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). >> >>> >> >>> Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In >> >> the >> >>> ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 >> >>> _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 >> >> resp. >> >>> 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a >> >> better >> >>> result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, >> >>> whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present >> >> seeds >> >>> are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. >> >>> >> >>> More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen >> >> Sakralgeometrie_ >> >>> (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> >> >>> Axel Michaels >> >>> >> >>> FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of >> >>> "indology at list.indology.info" >> >>> REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" >> >>> DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 >> >>> TO: "indology at list.indology.info" >> >>> SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula >> >>> >> >>> Dear list, >> >>> >> >>> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the >> >>> metric >> >>> >> >>> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but >> >> rather >> >>> >> >>> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the >> >>> uncertainties >> >>> >> >>> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on >> >> the >> >>> >> >>> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> >> >>> Jacob >> >>> >> >>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> >>> >> >>> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology >> >>> >> >>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> >>> >> >>> University of Copenhagen >> >>> >> >>> Denmark >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >> >>> >> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >>> >> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> >>> committee) >> >>> >> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list >> >>> options or unsubscribe) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Links: >> >>> ------ >> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> >> >> >>> committee) >> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> >> options >> >>> or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> >> committee) >> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> >> options or unsubscribe) >> > >> > [1] >> > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] >> > >> > >> > >> > Links: >> > ------ >> > [1] >> > >> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail >> > _______________________________________________ >> > INDOLOGY mailing list >> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> > committee) >> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> > or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > Wolny > od wirus?w. www.avast.com > > <#m_-5337425703442148610_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 17:18:04 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 22:48:04 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ???????????????? ???? ????????? ??????? ??? ?????????* ?* ????????? ????????????? ?????? ???????? ?? *????????* ? On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:38 PM Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > ???????? , ???????? , ?????????? , ?????????? > > 1) ?????, ?????? > da??a?, > da??am (p. 799 > ) > > ...on MS.10.5.83; ???? ind. in the manner of a *measuring* *rod.* -????? > Infliction of punishment; ????????????? ????????? Kau. A.4. -???? a raven. > -??????? a wooden club or staff; ????????????????? ?????? ?2. -??????? > assumption of the staff... > > 2) ???? > m?na? > (p. 1261 ) > > ...Object, purpose. -??? [??-??????] 1 *Measuring.* -2 A measure, > standard; ????- ???? ?????????? M?m??s?; ?????????????????????????????? A. > R?m.7.5.57. -3 Dimension, computation. -4 A standard of measure, > *measuring* *rod,* rule; ??????? ????????? ??????- ??????????????? > ?ukra.2.344. > > 3) ?????? > ?a?ku? > (p. 1528 ) > > -5 The trunk (of a lopped tree), stump, pollard. -6 The pin of a dial. -7 > A measure of twelve fingers. -8 A *measuring-rod.* -9 The sine of > altitude (in astr.). -10 Ten billions. -11 The fibres of a leaf; ??? > ??????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? Ch. Up... > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 1:40 AM Artur Karp via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Any term, please, for 'tape measure' / 'measuring tape'? >> >> Artur Karp >> >> >> Wolny >> od wirus?w. www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-2188263009295220362_m_-5337425703442148610_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> czw., 14 sty 2021 o 20:10 Jacob Schmidt-Madsen via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a): >> >>> Wow, thanks to everybody for the overwhelming response to my query on- >>> and offlist! >>> >>> I now feel on much better footing when evaluating the use of a?gula in >>> the text I'm currently reading. >>> >>> Best wishes to all, >>> >>> Jacob >>> >>> Artur Karp via INDOLOGY skrev den 2021-01-14 19:42: >>> > A?gulim?la >>> > >>> > A murderous robber "wearing a necklace of [human] fingers", known from >>> > Buddhist sources. >>> > >>> > Question: Apart from Angulimala, is there any mention in ancient >>> > Indian texts of someone wearing a finger necklace? >>> > >>> > Is there - perhaps - any mention of someone wearing a measuring tape >>> > around their neck? >>> > >>> > With New Year's Greetings, >>> > >>> > Artur Karp >>> > >>> > University of Warsaw >>> > Retired Senior Lecturer >>> > >>> > [1] >>> > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] >>> > >>> > czw., 14 sty 2021 o 19:06 jmdelire via INDOLOGY >>> > napisa?(a): >>> > >>> >> Hi, Everybody, >>> >> >>> >> First of all, I wish all the colleagues on the Indology list a very >>> >> happy year 2021. >>> >> The fact that a?gula is defined in the Baudh?ulb. as 14 a?u >>> >> (I,3-4 >>> >> Thibaut numbering) or 34 tila (I,5) is not to be taken too >>> >> seriously. >>> >> The last one has something to do with the approximate value given by >>> >> >>> >> Baudh?ulb. I,62 to the dvikara?ii (square root of 2, in a modern >>> >> view) >>> >> as 1 + 1/3 + 1/12 - 1/(12.34) and the first one with M?n?ulb >>> >> 10.1.2.6-7 >>> >> (Van Gelder), that implies an approximate value of 7/5. I developped >>> >> all >>> >> this in my book "Les math?matiques de l'autel v?dique" (Droz, >>> >> 2016) and >>> >> in a previous article : ? Quadratures, circulature and the >>> >> approximation >>> >> of square root of 2 in the Indian ?ulba-s?tras ?, Centaurus >>> >> (International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and >>> >> Technology), vol.47 (2005), pp.60-71. >>> >> >>> >> All the best, >>> >> >>> >> Jean Michel Delire, >>> >> Lecturer on Science and civilization in India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB >>> >> >>> >> (University of Brussels) >>> >> >>> >> Le 14.01.2021 18:15, Michaels, Axel via INDOLOGY a ?crit : >>> >>> Dear Patrick,Jacob and all, >>> >>> >>> >>> If _a?gula_ would be ca. 2 cm, the length of a man (_puru?a_) >>> >>> would be acc. to Baudh?ulvS I,19 together with I,16 and 1,7 >>> >> approx. >>> >>> 190 cm, which might be too much. If you calculate >>> >> anthropometrically >>> >>> in a realistic way, assuming that the average length of the male >>> >> was >>> >>> between 160 and 175 cm, _a?gula_ would be approx. 1,6 cm. This >>> >>> implies that _a?gula_ might not be the breadth of a thumb but of >>> >> the >>> >>> middle fingertip, see also M?n?S VIII,13,7 (_a?gulaparvan_). >>> >>> >>> >>> Another calculation could be based on palaeobotanic grounds: In >>> >> the >>> >>> ?ulvas?tras and other texts, 1 _a?gula_ is often equal to 34 >>> >>> _tila_ (Sesamum indicum) or 14 _a?u_ (Panicum miliaceum) or 6 >>> >> resp. >>> >>> 8 _yava_ (prob. Hordeum hexastichon). Whether this leads to a >>> >> better >>> >>> result, depends on whether it is measured broadside or longside, >>> >>> whether the seeds are shucked or not, and whether the present >>> >> seeds >>> >>> are genetically manipulated or not. No easy task. >>> >>> >>> >>> More on this in my _ Beweisverfahren in der vedischen >>> >> Sakralgeometrie_ >>> >>> (Wiesbaden 1978), pp. 156-7. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Axel Michaels >>> >>> >>> >>> FROM: INDOLOGY on behalf of >>> >>> "indology at list.indology.info" >>> >>> REPLY TO: "jacob at fabularasa.dk" >>> >>> DATE: Thursday, 14. January 2021 at 17:03 >>> >>> TO: "indology at list.indology.info" >>> >>> SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] A?gula >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear list, >>> >>> >>> >>> Is there any consensus on what an a?gula corresponds to in the >>> >>> metric >>> >>> >>> >>> system? Or should we not consider it an absolute standard, but >>> >> rather >>> >>> >>> >>> take it literally as the breadth of a finger (with all the >>> >>> uncertainties >>> >>> >>> >>> that follow)? There are a lot of suggestions floating around on >>> >> the >>> >>> >>> >>> internet, but I would be interested in any scholarly references. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jacob >>> >>> >>> >>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>> >>> >>> >>> Postdoctoral Researcher in Indology >>> >>> >>> >>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>> >>> >>> >>> University of Copenhagen >>> >>> >>> >>> Denmark >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >>> >>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> >>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> >>> committee) >>> >>> >>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your list >>> >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> >>> ------ >>> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> >> >>> >>> committee) >>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> >> options >>> >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> >> committee) >>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> >> options or unsubscribe) >>> > >>> > [1] >>> > Wolny od wirus?w. www.avast.com [1] >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Links: >>> > ------ >>> > [1] >>> > >>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > INDOLOGY mailing list >>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> > committee) >>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> > or unsubscribe) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> Wolny >> od wirus?w. www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-2188263009295220362_m_-5337425703442148610_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > > Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy > BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra > BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala > BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. > Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > > > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martingansten at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 20:10:18 2021 From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 21:10:18 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A_definition_of_dhy=C4=81na?= Message-ID: <31073cee-ebb7-1375-e57e-7f41ee535882@gmail.com> On behalf of M?ns Broo, who is unable to post to the list, I should like to know if anyone is able to provide a source for this definition of dhy?na, cited in a 16th-century bhakti text: /kevalamana?sa?yogam?trar?pa? smara?a? lak?yate dhy?nam/? Thanks in advance, Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Jan 15 22:13:54 2021 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 21 15:13:54 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A=E1=B9=85gula?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's the m?nada??a of v.1 of the *Kum?rasa?bhava*. On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 13:10, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Any term, please, for 'tape measure' / 'measuring tape'? > > Artur Karp > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 22:50:25 2021 From: piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 21 23:50:25 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I have been requested to resend the previous message from which the attached file was removed. I hope this time the attachment will go through. If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with *IBUS* for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus), as a sub-part of the *m17n* library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://balcerowicz.eu/ ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Piotr Balcerowicz Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 08:30 Subject: Re: recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? To: Indology List Dear Dean, I am not sure which OS you use. If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with *IBUS* for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus), as a sub-part of the *m17n* library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://balcerowicz.eu/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dean Michael Anderson To: Indology List Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:27:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? Thanks, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ph2046 at columbia.edu Sat Jan 16 23:11:54 2021 From: ph2046 at columbia.edu (Paul Hackett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 21 18:11:54 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1B8629A2-87F0-4F68-9D5C-0033DEB844BD@columbia.edu> Dear Piotr, You cannot send a ?.zip? file through a Listserv; it will be deleted as a security precaution (some systems will automatically execute them, which makes them a vector for malware & viruses). Instead, you should upload the .zip file to a file-sharing website and provide the download link in your email. Regards, Paul Hackett > On Jan 16, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Piotr Balcerowicz via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > I have been requested to resend the previous message from which the attached file was removed. I hope this time the attachment will go through. > If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with IBUS for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus ), as a sub-part of the m17n library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). > The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip > > In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: > "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , > and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons > run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". > It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. > > Best regards, > Piotr Balcerowicz > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://balcerowicz.eu/ > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Piotr Balcerowicz > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 08:30 > Subject: Re: recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > To: Indology List > > > > Dear Dean, > I am not sure which OS you use. If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with IBUS for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus ), as a sub-part of the m17n library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). > The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip > > In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: > "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , > and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons > run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". > It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. > > Best regards, > Piotr Balcerowicz > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://balcerowicz.eu/ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Dean Michael Anderson > > To: Indology List > > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:27:09 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Thanks, > > Dean > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 23:21:15 2021 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 21 17:21:15 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Piotr, The file didn't go through: maybe upload it somewhere and send a link? If anyone else uses Linux (how many of us could there be?) I wrote up some instructions on typing transliteration/Devanagari on Ubuntu, using xkb (part of the X windows system common to most Linux distributions, here: http://prakrit.info/keyboard.html Andrew On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 5:10 PM Piotr Balcerowicz via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I have been requested to resend the previous message from which the > attached file was removed. I hope this time the attachment will go through. > > If you happen to work with Linux, you may use the keyboard I designed for > Sanskrit and many other South Asian languages to be used with *IBUS* for > Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus), as a sub-part of > the *m17n* library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In > fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the > file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). > > The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip > > In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: > > "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , > > and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons > > run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". > > It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr > Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. > > Best regards, > > Piotr Balcerowicz > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://balcerowicz.eu/ > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Piotr Balcerowicz > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 at 08:30 > Subject: Re: recommended software for diacritical marks in Romanized > Sanskrit transliteration? > To: Indology List > > > Dear Dean, > > I am not sure which OS you use. If you happen to work with Linux, you may > use the keyboard I designed for Sanskrit and many other South Asian > languages to be used with *IBUS* for Linux (Intelligent Input Bus, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Input_Bus), as a sub-part of > the *m17n* library. The keyboard follows both ISO 15919 and IAST. In > fact, as you will see, it handles almost all possible diacritics (see the > file "keyboard for IBus description.pdf"). > > The details are in the zipped file: sa-iast-iso.zip > > In Linux, you just copy the files the m17n library: > > "sa-iast-iso.mim" to usr/share/m17n/ , > > and "sa-iast-iso.png" to usr/share/m17n/icons > > run IBus, in IBus preferences ? Input method, add "Sanskrit - iast-iso". > > It is free to use, but please retain the source / designer name: "? Piotr > Balcerowicz", also when you modify the file. > > Best regards, > > Piotr Balcerowicz > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://balcerowicz.eu/ > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Dean Michael Anderson > > To: Indology List > > Cc: > > Bcc: > > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 15:27:09 +0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] recommended software for diacritical marks in > Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Can anyone recommend a web site or program that allows one to easily > create diacritical marks in Romanized Sanskrit transliteration? > > Thanks, > > Dean > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 06:31:18 2021 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 15:31:18 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] fire Message-ID: Dear Friends, During these winter months where I've been making a nightly fire to stare into and keep warm I became curious about textual references to the use of fire. I'm generally wondering if there is any focused discussion around the following verses in Manusm?ti pertaining to permitted uses of fire? I find this collection of verses interesting. In 6.4 the 'forest dweller' is permitted to take 1 sacrificial fire and utensils with him. In 6.23 he is instructed to use 5 fires and endure pa?catapa during summer. In 6.23 he is instructed to increase the level of discomfort, leading to the instruction in 6.25 to internalise the 3 sacred fires and then subsist without fire (he brought from home). agnihotra? sam?d?ya g?hya? c?gniparicchadam gr?m?d ara?ya? ni?s?tya nivasen niyatendriya? // Manu_6.4 gr??me pa?catap?s tu sy?d var??sv abhr?vak??ika? ?rdrav?s?s tu hemante krama?o vardhaya?s tapa? // Manu_6.23 upasp??a?s tri?ava?a? pit?n dev??? ca tarpayet tapa? cara?? cogratara? ?o?ayed deham ?tmana? // Manu_6.24 agn?n ?tmani vait?n?n sam?ropya yath?vidhi anagnir aniketa? sy?n munir m?laphal??ana? // Manu_6.25 I'm specifically wondering if there is instruction made explicit (somewhere) about the route through which fire is internalised and how one might measure success of the process by which internalisation occurs. Thank you. All the best, ????? ??????? Patrick McCartney, PhD Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aparpola at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 07:56:45 2021 From: aparpola at gmail.com (Asko Parpola) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 09:56:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E531249-AAD8-49D6-B1AA-C4BCD072EA5A@gmail.com> Dear Patrick, The following studies discuss interiorized fire sacrifice: Bentor, Yael, 2000. Interiorized fire rituals in India and in Tibet. Journal of the American Oriental Society 230 (4): 594-613. Bodewitz, H.W., 1973. Jaimin?ya Br?hma?a I, 1-65. Translation and commentary, with a study Agnihotra and Pr???gnihotra. (Orientalia Rheno-Traiectina, 17.) Leiden: E.J. Brill. 376 pp. Gupta, Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208 in: Teun Goudriaan (ed.), Ritual and speculation in early Tantrism: Studies in honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric studies.) Albany: State University of New York Press. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 163), Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1993. With best wishes, Asko Asko Parpola Professor emeritus of Indology University of Helsinki > On 17 Jan 2021, at 8.31, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > During these winter months where I've been making a nightly fire to stare into and keep warm I became curious about textual references to the use of fire. > I'm generally wondering if there is any focused discussion around the following > verses in Manusm?ti pertaining to permitted uses of fire? I find this collection of verses interesting. > > In 6.4 the 'forest dweller' is permitted to take > 1 sacrificial fire and utensils with him. > In 6.23 he is instructed to use 5 fires and endure pa?catapa during summer. > In 6.23 he is instructed to increase the level of discomfort, leading to > the instruction in 6.25 to internalise the 3 sacred fires and then subsist without fire (he brought from home). > > agnihotra? sam?d?ya g?hya? c?gniparicchadam > gr?m?d ara?ya? ni?s?tya nivasen niyatendriya? // Manu_6.4 > > gr??me pa?catap?s tu sy?d var??sv abhr?vak??ika? > ?rdrav?s?s tu hemante krama?o vardhaya?s tapa? // Manu_6.23 > > upasp??a?s tri?ava?a? pit?n dev??? ca tarpayet > tapa? cara?? cogratara? ?o?ayed deham ?tmana? // Manu_6.24 > > agn?n ?tmani vait?n?n sam?ropya yath?vidhi > anagnir aniketa? sy?n munir m?laphal??ana? // Manu_6.25 > > I'm specifically wondering if there is instruction made explicit (somewhere) about the route through which fire is internalised and how one might measure success of the process by which internalisation occurs. > > Thank you. > > > All the best, > > ????????????? > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto > Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan > Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University > Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University > > Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 > Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap > Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research > > bodhap?rvam calema ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu Sun Jan 17 10:43:52 2021 From: Lyne.Bansat-Boudon at ephe.psl.eu (Lyne Bansat-Boudon) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 10:43:52 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] fire In-Reply-To: <6E531249-AAD8-49D6-B1AA-C4BCD072EA5A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Patrick, You can also have a look into the Parama?rthasa?ra of Abhinavagupta, verses 68 and 76, where the antarya?ga is referred to, according to S?aiva speculations, in the context of bha?vana? and that of the theme (and doctrine) of ji?vanmukti. In my annotated translation of the text (see Bansat-Boudon and Tripathi, An Introduction to Tantric Philosophy, Routledge Studies in Tantric Traditions, 3, 2011, pp. 50, 243, 258), you will find references to other S?aiva texts, especially to Tantra?loka. With best wishes, Lyne Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France ________________________________ De : INDOLOGY de la part de Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY Envoy? : dimanche 17 janvier 2021 08:56 ? : patrick mccartney Cc : Indology List Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] fire Dear Patrick, The following studies discuss interiorized fire sacrifice: Bentor, Yael, 2000. Interiorized fire rituals in India and in Tibet. Journal of the American Oriental Society 230 (4): 594-613. Bodewitz, H.W., 1973. Jaimin?ya Br?hma?a I, 1-65. Translation and commentary, with a study Agnihotra and Pr???gnihotra. (Orientalia Rheno-Traiectina, 17.) Leiden: E.J. Brill. 376 pp. Gupta, Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208 in: Teun Goudriaan (ed.), Ritual and speculation in early Tantrism: Studies in honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric studies.) Albany: State University of New York Press. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 163), Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1993. With best wishes, Asko Asko Parpola Professor emeritus of Indology University of Helsinki On 17 Jan 2021, at 8.31, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Friends, During these winter months where I've been making a nightly fire to stare into and keep warm I became curious about textual references to the use of fire. I'm generally wondering if there is any focused discussion around the following verses in Manusm?ti pertaining to permitted uses of fire? I find this collection of verses interesting. In 6.4 the 'forest dweller' is permitted to take 1 sacrificial fire and utensils with him. In 6.23 he is instructed to use 5 fires and endure pa?catapa during summer. In 6.23 he is instructed to increase the level of discomfort, leading to the instruction in 6.25 to internalise the 3 sacred fires and then subsist without fire (he brought from home). agnihotra? sam?d?ya g?hya? c?gniparicchadam gr?m?d ara?ya? ni?s?tya nivasen niyatendriya? // Manu_6.4 gr??me pa?catap?s tu sy?d var??sv abhr?vak??ika? ?rdrav?s?s tu hemante krama?o vardhaya?s tapa? // Manu_6.23 upasp??a?s tri?ava?a? pit?n dev??? ca tarpayet tapa? cara?? cogratara? ?o?ayed deham ?tmana? // Manu_6.24 agn?n ?tmani vait?n?n sam?ropya yath?vidhi anagnir aniketa? sy?n munir m?laphal??ana? // Manu_6.25 I'm specifically wondering if there is instruction made explicit (somewhere) about the route through which fire is internalised and how one might measure success of the process by which internalisation occurs. Thank you. All the best, ????????????? Patrick McCartney, PhD Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research bodhap?rvam calema ;-) [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=19R8Cikbi8EiQ5UYFEBkervRVqXt-_Plr&revid=0B0ONiOO-EUx-TW1CYjlVQzhaeDVReUhFRzdubWdBLzRxaTlvPQ] * _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Jan 17 10:47:45 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 16:17:45 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] fire In-Reply-To: <6E531249-AAD8-49D6-B1AA-C4BCD072EA5A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Prof. Asko Parpola for these references. On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:27 PM Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > The following studies discuss interiorized fire sacrifice: > > Bentor, Yael, 2000. Interiorized fire rituals in India and in Tibet. > Journal of the American Oriental Society 230 (4): 594-613. > > Bodewitz, H.W., 1973. Jaimin?ya Br?hma?a I, 1-65. Translation and > commentary, with a study Agnihotra and Pr???gnihotra. (Orientalia > Rheno-Traiectina, 17.) Leiden: E.J. Brill. 376 pp. > > Gupta, Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208 in: > Teun Goudriaan (ed.), Ritual and speculation in early Tantrism: Studies in > honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric studies.) Albany: State > University of New York Press. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, > 163), Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1993. > > With best wishes, Asko > > Asko Parpola > Professor emeritus of Indology > University of Helsinki > > > > On 17 Jan 2021, at 8.31, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > During these winter months where I've been making a nightly fire to stare > into and keep warm I became curious about textual references to the use of > fire. > I'm generally wondering if there is any focused discussion around the > following > verses in Manusm?ti pertaining to permitted uses of fire? I find this > collection of verses interesting. > > In 6.4 the 'forest dweller' is permitted to take > 1 sacrificial fire and utensils with him. > In 6.23 he is instructed to use 5 fires and endure pa?catapa during > summer. > In 6.23 he is instructed to increase the level of discomfort, leading to > the instruction in 6.25 to internalise the 3 sacred fires and then subsist > without fire (he brought from home). > > agnihotra? sam?d?ya g?hya? c?gniparicchadam > gr?m?d ara?ya? ni?s?tya nivasen niyatendriya? // Manu_6.4 > > gr??me pa?catap?s tu sy?d var??sv abhr?vak??ika? > ?rdrav?s?s tu hemante krama?o vardhaya?s tapa? // Manu_6.23 > > upasp??a?s tri?ava?a? pit?n dev??? ca tarpayet > tapa? cara?? cogratara? ?o?ayed deham ?tmana? // Manu_6.24 > > agn?n ?tmani vait?n?n sam?ropya yath?vidhi > anagnir aniketa? sy?n munir m?laphal??ana? // Manu_6.25 > > I'm specifically wondering if there is instruction made explicit > (somewhere) about the route through which fire is internalised and how one > might measure success of the process by which internalisation occurs. > > Thank you. > > > All the best, > > ????? ??????? > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development > (OICD), Kyoto > Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, > Japan > Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian > National University > Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National > University > > Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 > Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap > Yogascapes in Japan Academia > Linkedin > > Modern Yoga Research > > *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Sun Jan 17 12:37:47 2021 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 13:37:47 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] fire In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20210117133747.Horde.3_6DtkcIbE3lZKgFkp3N0Wd@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Patrick, See also chapters VI.42-43 of the /Mok?op?ya/ (MU) in which ?iva expounds to the sage Vasi??ha that /both /forms of worship, namely the "outward/outer"/ (b?hya)/ and "interior/inner" /(antar)/ or "mental" /(m?nasa)/ "worship"/ (p?j?)/, are actually and exclusively realized as ongoing /?tmadhy?na/. [According to his own words (MU VI.33.12), ?iva teaches here the "excellent" /(vara)/ or "very best" /(anuttama)/ form of /dev?rcana/, which, when performed, will lead immediately to liberation.] Best wishes, Roland Steiner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sun Jan 17 21:19:37 2021 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 21:19:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sunil Kumar Message-ID: <9EEE4702-93D3-4C13-9900-892ECF523B85@austin.utexas.edu> Just read on Indian Express that Prof. Sunil Kumar, the Chair of History at Delhi University, passed away due to COPD complications (not Covid). I did not know him well, but interacted with him when I published a paper in Indian Economic and Social History Review, and gave a talk in his department a couple of years ago. He was a very friendly person, and a fine medieval historian; did his doctoral work at Duke. Patrick From rpg at berkeley.edu Sun Jan 17 21:30:12 2021 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 21 13:30:12 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sunil Kumar In-Reply-To: <9EEE4702-93D3-4C13-9900-892ECF523B85@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <15E12759-656F-4CCD-A9C8-347416F9DAD8@berkeley.edu> Very sorry to hear of this, Patrick. I knew Sunil reasonably well and met and spoke with him at various conferences and at the DU History Dept. . He was a resident fellow at our Townsend Center for the Humanities in 2007?08. A very nice persona and an outstanding scholar. A very sad and significant loss. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > On Jan 17, 2021, at 1:19 PM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Just read on Indian Express that Prof. Sunil Kumar, the Chair of History at Delhi University, passed away due to COPD complications (not Covid). I did not know him well, but interacted with him when I published a paper in Indian Economic and Social History Review, and gave a talk in his department a couple of years ago. He was a very friendly person, and a fine medieval historian; did his doctoral work at Duke. > > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Heleen.DeJonckheere at UGent.be Tue Jan 19 01:19:56 2021 From: Heleen.DeJonckheere at UGent.be (Heleen De Jonckheere) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 01:19:56 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for participants "Yes we Jain" (deadline 31st Jan) In-Reply-To: <4341069c589a4f55a49a74e211f9d3a7@UGent.be> Message-ID: Call for Participants "Yes we Jain" As part of the EASR 2021 conference in Pisa this summer, we (Heleen De Jonckheere, University of Chicago; Basile Lecl?re, Universit? de Lyon; and Tine Vekemans, Ghent University) are convening a panel for which you can find the abstract below. Our "Yes we Jain!" panel can accommodate a wide range of topics relating to Jainism and resilience. Please consider submitting a paper proposal through the EASR website, before January 31st. https://www.easr2021.org/how-to-submit-a-proposal/ (don't forget to include our panel title in your abstract!). We hope to meet you (virtually or live) in Pisa this summer! Heleen, Basile, and Tine Panel Abstract: "Yes we Jain!" - Overcoming crises in the Jain tradition Throughout its long history, Jainism has endured as a relatively small religious movement in the intricate and often choppy currents of the South Asian cultural and religious ocean. Although Jainism has often been stereotyped as austere, unyielding, and difficult to practice, this panel proposes to see this endurance as indicative of Jainism's ability to transform and adapt to changing circumstances while always guarding continuity within the tradition. It will therefore foreground the adaptive capacities which have enabled the Jain tradition to continue to thrive, and successfully support and engage with its followers, even in less than ideal circumstances. Under the affirmative title 'Yes we Jain!', this multi session open panel will accommodate - and seek to attract - contributions from scholars approaching Jainism from a broad range of perspectives and disciplines, focusing on moments of crisis or adversity in the history of the tradition and in the lives of its practitioners. We explicitly invite both textual and sociological case studies discussing instances of adaptation within a specific context, as well as theoretical approaches examining the DNA of Jain resilience more generally. The panel will be organized in sessions focusing on different types of challenges Jainism and its followers have faced. Although this division in sessions is subject to change depending on the number and content of the papers submitted, we tentatively expect to present three sessions: the first session will focus on ways in which Jainism has dealt with and continues to deal with the fundamental issues of human existence. Contributions to this session may include discussions of specific transformations of Jain praxis prompted by changes in circumstances related to pandemics, famine, or migration, as well as more general examinations of Jain teachings on issues such as (re)birth, disease, and death. The second session will examine concrete moments of crisis located within the tradition itself, such as a sectarian split or the death of a preceptor, which present a potential threat to the continuity and unity of the Jain (sub)tradition that needs to be mitigated. The third session will look at challenges emerging from Jainism's interactions with its religious others, be it in the form of religious and philosophical polemics with Hindu and Buddhist thinkers or in the form of political power brokerage under non-Jain rulers. Such interactions have prompted Jainism to redefine and profile itself within the given context. Together, the papers included in this multi session panel will present a diachronic and multimodal exploration of resilience in the Jain tradition; it will feed into discussions on the adaptive capacities of Jainism, the ways the tradition can inspire resilience in the face of adversity, and the dynamics of religion in times of crisis in general. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From helene.debrux at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 09:30:02 2021 From: helene.debrux at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?H=C3=A9l=C3=A8ne_de_Brux?=) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 10:30:02 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CfP workshop "Buddhism and Language - A Twofold Perspective", LMU, Munich, Oct. 22-23, 2021 Message-ID: Dear list members, The Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies at the Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t, M?nchen, is pleased to announce a call for papers for the workshop "*Buddhism and Language - A Twofold Perspective: The Role of Language in Buddhist Teachings and the Role of Buddhist Sources in Linguistic Research*", to be held on October 22-23, 2021 in Munich, Germany, with keynote addresses by *Prof. Dr. Christoph Anderl* (Ghent University) and *Prof. Dr. Steffen D?ll* (Hamburg University). Due to the dynamic situation of the pandemic, the workshop will probably be held in hybrid format (in presence *and* online) . We encourage abstract submission from early career scholars, especially PhD students, but also from established scholars. The deadline for applications is March 20, 2021. For the CfP, please see the following links or the attachment: https://www.en.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/currentissues/cfp_workshop2021/index.html https://www.en.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/currentissues/cfp_workshop2021/workshop_buddhism_and_language.pdf H?l?ne de Brux - on behalf of the Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies, LMU, Munich PhD student LMU, Munich & EPHE, Paris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: workshop_buddhism_and_language.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1801247 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tyler.g.neill at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 15:41:39 2021 From: tyler.g.neill at gmail.com (Tyler Neill) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 10:41:39 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] skrutable for transliteration, scansion, and meter identification Message-ID: Dear all, I wrote a month ago mentioning a tool I've been working on, which I said could be used to analyze the meter of whole texts (the R?m?ya?a, for example). Fortunately, I was able to give it more time since then, and I'm pleased to say that it's finally in good shape and ready to be used more widely. Access it online here: skrutable.pythonanywhere.com The web app should hopefully be easy to use, even on mobile devices, and it also gives point-and-click access to whole-file analysis. Meter identification was already able to give good detail on such things as anu??ubh vipul?s and unmetrical p?das, but now it's also able to handle even more difficult cases like tri??ubh upaj?tis. As a nice bonus, I was also able to optimize it for speed in a major way, such that where it was taking 20 minutes to finish the R?m?ya?a before, now it can do it in just 10 or so seconds(!) I'm hoping that this tool will come in handy not only for research but also for helping students learn about and enjoy Sanskrit meter. Please do give it a try and also pass it on. I'm interested to follow up with people on their experiences with it. Kind wishes, Tyler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com Tue Jan 19 20:56:18 2021 From: marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 21:56:18 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Diacritics on MacOS (with Italian keyboard) Message-ID: <6C005E32-7EC5-4154-A157-E54128FED181@gmail.com> Dear friends and colleagues, I have prepared two keyboard layouts for Italian keyboards in Mac OS (10.4 and later): ?ITA diacritici? and ?ITAdia+?. ?ITA diacritici? is a keyboard layout designed for typing all the (latin) base characters with diacritics used for the transliteration of Indic, Arabic and Perso-Arabic scripts together with text in Italian (or English etc.). Its main features are: ? diacritics are produced by means of ?dead keys? (21 of them are available!); ? up to four diacritics can be added to a single base character; ? diacritics can be typed in whatever order (but the base character must be typed last). ?ITAdia+? is especially thought for typing in IAST quickly. Basically, it works on two levels: 1) Caps Lock off: it works the same as ?ITA diacritici?; 2) Caps Lock on: a special scheme is activated which allows you to type trasliterated Sanskrit (IAST) and/or Tamil texts fast, since no combined key-strokes are required (i.e. you never have to press more then one key at a time). Both the keyboard layouts are licensed under Creative Commons BY-NC 4.0 (Attribution-NonCommercial) and can be freely dowloaded from the website of the "Associazione italiana studi sanscriti? (Italian Association for Sanskrit Studies): http://www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org/risorse/page/3/ Feedbacks (to be sent to me: marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it ) will be extremely appreciated. Best wishes, Marco --- Marco Franceschini ??????????? Senior Assistant Professor University of Bologna Department of History and Cultures marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Jan 20 00:57:53 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 16:57:53 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lecture Series on Indian Linguistics, Deccan College, Pune Message-ID: For your information: https://www.facebook.com/dc.pune.3 Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luther.obrock at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 01:47:58 2021 From: luther.obrock at gmail.com (luther obrock) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 20:47:58 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Message-ID: Dear All, I was wondering if anyone might have a pdf of this article: Verardi, Giovanni. "Osservazioni sulle sculture in argilla e su alcuni ambienti dei complessi templari I e II di Pendzikent." Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 42,1982. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Luther -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 04:22:25 2021 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 21 21:22:25 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] skrutable for transliteration, scansion, and meter identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fantastic tool, Tyler. Thank you! On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 08:43, Tyler Neill via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear all, > > I wrote a month ago mentioning a tool I've been working on, which I said > could be used to analyze the meter of whole texts (the R?m?ya?a, for > example). Fortunately, I was able to give it more time since then, and I'm > pleased to say that it's finally in good shape and ready to be used more > widely. > > Access it online here: skrutable.pythonanywhere.com > > The web app should hopefully be easy to use, even on mobile devices, and > it also gives point-and-click access to whole-file analysis. Meter > identification was already able to give good detail on such things as > anu??ubh vipul?s and unmetrical p?das, but now it's also able to handle > even more difficult cases like tri??ubh upaj?tis. As a nice bonus, I was > also able to optimize it for speed in a major way, such that where it was > taking 20 minutes to finish the R?m?ya?a before, now it can do it in just > 10 or so seconds(!) > > I'm hoping that this tool will come in handy not only for research but > also for helping students learn about and enjoy Sanskrit meter. Please do > give it a try and also pass it on. I'm interested to follow up with people > on their experiences with it. > > Kind wishes, > Tyler > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 08:16:11 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 13:46:11 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The link to the Samksepa shariraka sara sangraha authored by Acharya Madhusudan Sarasvati for free download. Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Could anyone give me the link to the above book for my present need. An early response will be appreciated. Kindest regards Girish K.Jha University Professor(Retd.) Dept of Sanskrit Patna UnIversity Residence: Kolkata -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 08:33:27 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 14:03:27 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The link to the Samksepa shariraka sara sangraha authored by Acharya Madhusudan Sarasvati for free download. Message-ID: Dear colleagues Could anyone give me the link to the above book for my present need.An early reply will be appreciated. Kindest regards Girish K.Jha University Professor(Retd) Dept of sanskrit Patna University Residence: Kolkata -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Jan 20 09:54:04 2021 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 10:54:04 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The link to the Samksepa shariraka sara sangraha authored by Acharya Madhusudan Sarasvati for free download. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sarvaj??tman's Sa?k?epa??r?raka with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha EIPH 592.3.5 Edited, with Madhus?dana's S?rasa?graha, by B.S. Vajhe. Two volumes. KSS 18, 1924 vol.1 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.407371 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.408311 vol. 2 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.553619 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEUGlMZGt6aGdhZlk [should be : https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.495498, but error] In manuscript form: https://archive.org/details/947SamkshepaSharirakamWithMadhusudaniOfSarvajnatmaMuniManuscriptsByIAMVISIONARYTUNES/mode/2up Not found: 592.3.1 Edited, with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha, by H.S. Dviveda. Pan n.s. 4, 1882 - 10, 1888. 592.3.2 Edited, with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha, by Govinda Dasgupta. Banaras 1887 592.3.14 Edited with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha and editor's Lalita, by Vidyananda Giri. Hardwar, Rishikesh 1999 > Le 20 janv. 2021 ? 09:33, Girish Jha via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > Dear colleagues > Could anyone give me the link to the above book for my present need.An early reply will be appreciated. > Kindest regards > Girish K.Jha > University Professor(Retd) > Dept of sanskrit > Patna University > Residence: Kolkata > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 11:11:14 2021 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 12:11:14 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] video Buddhacarita murals Sri Lanka Message-ID: <8efda755-d3e3-43bb-e037-dbc4de87d013@gmail.com> Dear listmembers, for about two or three decades, starting at the end of the 19th century, it was very popular in Sri Lanka monasteries to visualize buddhist themes in a style which is reminiscent of theater performances. I came across a monastery in Colombo where the complete Buddhacarita is depicted in this painting style and I decided now to make a video with (german accented) englisch eplanations. If you are interested, please follow this link and let me know what you are missing https://youtu.be/g7ujWzPKxmY Best Rolf Heinrich Koch -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com From bclough9377 at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 11:59:08 2021 From: bclough9377 at gmail.com (Bradley Clough) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 06:59:08 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] video Buddhacarita murals Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <8efda755-d3e3-43bb-e037-dbc4de87d013@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Rolf, What a wonderful contribution you have made here, with this remarkable footage of this rarely seen artwork and your informed, reliable narration! Many Thanks, Brad Clough On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 6:12 AM Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear listmembers, > > for about two or three decades, starting at the end of the 19th century, > it was very popular in Sri Lanka monasteries to visualize buddhist > themes in a style which is reminiscent of theater performances. > I came across a monastery in Colombo where the complete Buddhacarita is > depicted in this painting style and I decided now to make a video with > (german accented) englisch eplanations. > If you are interested, please follow this link and let me know what you > are missing > > https://youtu.be/g7ujWzPKxmY > > Best > > Rolf Heinrich Koch > > -- > Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu Wed Jan 20 14:58:13 2021 From: V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu (Vanessa Sasson) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 14:58:13 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] video Buddhacarita murals Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <8efda755-d3e3-43bb-e037-dbc4de87d013@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0c6dc824c87e4573a8cc3a938d807d51@marianopolis.edu> This is wonderful! Thank you so much for sharing! -----Original Message----- From: INDOLOGY On Behalf Of Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY Sent: January 20, 2021 6:11 AM To: indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] video Buddhacarita murals Sri Lanka Dear listmembers, for about two or three decades, starting at the end of the 19th century, it was very popular in Sri Lanka monasteries to visualize buddhist themes in a style which is reminiscent of theater performances. I came across a monastery in Colombo where the complete Buddhacarita is depicted in this painting style and I decided now to make a video with (german accented) englisch eplanations. If you are interested, please follow this link and let me know what you are missing https://youtu.be/g7ujWzPKxmY Best Rolf Heinrich Koch -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From jknutson at hawaii.edu Wed Jan 20 19:12:38 2021 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 21 09:12:38 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] video Buddhacarita murals Sri Lanka In-Reply-To: <8efda755-d3e3-43bb-e037-dbc4de87d013@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is amazing. Thank you so much On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 1:12 AM Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear listmembers, > > for about two or three decades, starting at the end of the 19th century, > it was very popular in Sri Lanka monasteries to visualize buddhist > themes in a style which is reminiscent of theater performances. > I came across a monastery in Colombo where the complete Buddhacarita is > depicted in this painting style and I decided now to make a video with > (german accented) englisch eplanations. > If you are interested, please follow this link and let me know what you > are missing > > https://youtu.be/g7ujWzPKxmY > > Best > > Rolf Heinrich Koch > > -- > Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- ------------------------------------------------------- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature & Chair Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i, M?noa 461 Spalding It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, *Playing and Reality* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at gmail.com Wed Jan 20 23:16:48 2021 From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 04:46:48 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The link to the Samksepa shariraka sara sangraha authored by Acharya Madhusudan Sarasvati for free download. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: DearProfessor Vielle, ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????????????? ??????s???? ?????s???? ????????? ????????????????????????????? Girish K. Jha University Professor(Retd) Dept of Sanskrit Patna University Residence: Kolkata On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, 15:48 Christophe Vielle, < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.553619 > > has the two vols together in fact (in good quality) > > > D?but du message r?exp?di? : > > *De: *Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > *Objet: **R?p : [INDOLOGY] The link to the Samksepa shariraka sara > sangraha authored by Acharya Madhusudan Sarasvati for free download.* > *Date: *20 janvier 2021 ? 10:54:04 UTC+1 > *?: *Girish Jha > *Cc: *Indology > *R?pondre ?: *Christophe Vielle > > Sarvaj??tman's Sa?k?epa??r?raka with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha > > EIPH > > 592.3.5 Edited, with Madhus?dana's S?rasa?graha, by B.S. Vajhe. Two > volumes. KSS 18, 1924 > > vol.1 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.407371 > > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.408311 > > > vol. 2 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.553619 > > > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEUGlMZGt6aGdhZlk > > > [should be : https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.495498 > , > but error] > > > In manuscript form: > > https://archive.org/details/947SamkshepaSharirakamWithMadhusudaniOfSarvajnatmaMuniManuscriptsByIAMVISIONARYTUNES/mode/2up > > > > Not found: > > 592.3.1 Edited, with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha, by H.S. > Dviveda. Pan n.s. 4, 1882 - 10, 1888. > > 592.3.2 Edited, with Madhus?dana Sarasvat?'s S?rasa?graha, by Govinda > Dasgupta. Banaras 1887 > wrote: I have got a link here which is from Ohio US Library. If any one confirms this edition has the commentary I would initiate a request for scan. Thanks https://search.clevnet.org/client/en_US/clevnet/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ILS$002f0$002fSD_ILS:1096498/one On 21-Sep-2017 6:39 PM, "Krishnaprasad G" wrote: > Dear all > I am searching for the Commentary of Jivananda Vidyasagara on Kadambari of > Bana Bhatta. From long time With lot of search having no succes. > > If anyone is having or can get access to your near by libraries would scan > will be a great favor for me. > Thanks > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bihanisarkar at googlemail.com Thu Jan 21 12:38:06 2021 From: bihanisarkar at googlemail.com (Bihani Sarkar) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 12:38:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Publication: Classical Sanskrit Tragedy Message-ID: Dear All, I am pleased to announce the publication of my next book *Classical Sanskrit Tragedy: The Concept of Suffering and Pathos in Medieval India* (Bloomsbury-IB Tauris): https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/classical-sanskrit-tragedy-9781788311113/ I express my heartfelt gratitude to the anonymous peer-reviewer for her/his pertinent and knowledgeable suggestions in improving the book. I am also grateful to Professor Sheldon Pollock and Dr. Csaba Dezso for kindly endorsing the book. Gratitude is expressed in the book's Acknowledgement to many invaluable *sah?daya*s and* hitai??*s, who poured assistance like the *megha* in the *Meghad?ta* pours nourishing rain. Details regarding content as follows: *Book description* It is often assumed that classical Sanskrit poetry and drama (*k?vya*) lack a concern with the tragic. However, as made clear in this book, this is far from the case. This re-evaluation of 'tragedy' in classical Sanskrit literature draws on a wide range of Sanskrit dramas, poems and treatises ? many passages among which are translated for the first time into English ? to provide a fuller history and re-conceptualization of the tragic in Indian literature from the second to the fourth centuries. Looking at K?lid?sa, the most celebrated writer of Sanskrit poetry and drama (*k?vya*), this book argues that constructions of absence and grief are central to K?lid?sa?s compositions and that these ?tragic middles? are much more sophisticated than previously understood. For K?lid?sa, tragic middles are modes of thinking, in which he confronts theological and philosophical issues. Through a close literary analysis of the tragic middle in five of his works, the *Abhij??na?akuntal?*, the *Raghuva??a,* the *Kum?rasambhava,* the *Vikramorva??ya* and the *Meghad?ta,* the book demonstrates the importance of tragedy for classical Indian poetry and drama in the early centuries of the common era. These depictions from the Indian literary sphere, by their particular function and interest in the phenomenology of grief, challenge and reshape in a wholly new way our received understanding of tragedy. *Chapters and sub-headings:* *Preamble: A note on the Indian 'Medieval'* *Introduction Part I. The Tragic Middle* The Legacy of Looking The Cry of the Krau?ca The Politics of Looking George Eliot and Endings William James and the 'Second Birth' Northrop Frye and unfinished comedy K?lid?sa and 'the second birth' Pathos in Indian Aesthetics Looking Elsewhere *Introduction Part II. Doubt, Obstacle, Deliberation, Death, Disaster: the Trial in Indian Aesthetics* Introducing the Trial An overview of the theory of narrative structure The *avasth?*s The *prak?ti*s The *sandhi*s Abhinavagupta and controversies over the *avamar?a*/*vimar?a* Character, survival and a universe of hazard The Trial in the works of K?lid?sa A pr?cis of plots *Chapter 1. K?lid?sa and his Inheritance of Grief* Why K?lid?sa? Bharata and K?lid?sa The *Vi?vantaraj?taka *of ?rya??ra The *Saundarananda* of A?vagho?a The *R?m?ya?a* Fate in the *R?m?ya?a* The curse in the *R?m?ya?a* Fate (*vidhi*), cure (*??pa*), retribution (*karma*), God (??vara): tragic agency in K?lid?sa *Chapter 2. The Map of Melancholy: Lamentation and the Philosophical Pause* The joyous* k?rya*s of the Raghuva??a and the Kum?rasambhava Lamentation (*vil?pa*) and the 'tragic middle' in the* Raghuva??a* and the *Kum?rasambhava* Purposes of the tragic middle Kinship between Aja's lament (*Ajavil?pa*) and Rati's lament (*Rativil?pa)* The map of melancholy *Chapter 3. On Losing and Finding Love: Conflict, Obstacle and Drama* Divided heroes in the *?akuntal?* and the *Vikramorva??ya* The Tragic Middle in the *?akuntal?* The knowledge of the heart Not knowing correctly and doubt in the *?akuntal?* Awareness and the ring Perceiving reality A 'madman' sings and dances: the tragic middle in the *Vikramorva??ya* *Chapter 4. The Altered Heart: Anguish, Entreaty and Lyric* The *Meghad?ta* as a lament The *Meghad?ta *as the tragic middle made independent 'Internally liquid': cloud and* yak?a* as one Love messages and 'insentient' messengers in earlier poetry The tragic middle in the *Meghad?ta* *Conclusion* Thank you. With best wishes, Bihani Sarkar BA (English, First Class Honours), MPhil, D.Phil (Sanskrit), (Oxon.) Lecturer (hourly paid) in Religious Studies: Hinduism and Buddhism, University of Winchester (January-May 2021). Associate Faculty Member Oriental Institute, University of Oxford (2019-2022). Research Member of Common Room, Wolfson College, University of Oxford (2020-2022). *Heroic Sh?ktism: The Cult of Durg? in Ancient Indian Kingship*: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/heroic-shktism-9780197266106?cc=gb&lang=en& Alok?: Online Lessons in Ancient Indian Texts and Traditions: https://www.bihanisarkar.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr Thu Jan 21 12:39:05 2021 From: kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Agathe Keller) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 12:39:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Why the Sciences of the Ancient World Matter Message-ID: <7A817D05-98BC-4536-8898-5DF8DD462C54@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Colleagues, I would like to bring to your attention the existence of a Series we co-created a couple of years ago already (with K. Chemla and C. Proust) at Springer called Why the Sciences of the Ancient World Matter. It has published some edited books with contributions of some of our colleagues; thus in the recently published Mathematics, Administrative and Economic Activities in Ancient Worlds. edited by C?cile Michel and Karine Chemla there is a wonderful article by Marc McClish, a philological approach to terms evoking measuring and computation in the Artha??stra, and in Pieces and Parts in Scientific Texts, edited by Florence Bretelle-Establet and St?phane Schmitt in 2018 there is a great chapter by K. Preinsendanz on ?Text Segmentation, Chapter Naming and the Transmission of Embedded Texts in South Asia?. Other books are on the way. If you would like to review any of the books, contact me! Do not hesitate to submit manuscripts to our series, we invite all kind of formats from monographs to collective endeavours. Apart from the usual criteria of rigor and originality, we request that the texts be made sufficiently accessible to scholars who might not be indologists, and that the general interest of the study be well articulated. All submissions will be thoroughly examined and if accepted peer reviewed. with all best, Agathe Keller Universit? de Paris & CNRS Laboratoire SPHERE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Jan 21 13:40:35 2021 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 13:40:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about the publication details of an article Message-ID: <32a30f0f2d8a4ba1b220ab0f369f41e0@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Dear List members, I am looking for an article of which I have forgotten the details. If I remember well it has appeared in BSOAS and was written by Henning or a person with a name like that. It deals with the horror vacui (maybe the words are in the title), or how missing information in inscriptions is filled in by historians. I am not so much looking for a pdf ? I do have access to the electronic version of BSOAS ? but would like to know where I can find it. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Thu Jan 21 13:56:01 2021 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 14:56:01 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about the publication details of an article In-Reply-To: <32a30f0f2d8a4ba1b220ab0f369f41e0@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: Dear Herman, Could it be this one? Best. Henige, David P. (1975). ? Some Phantom Dynasties of early and medieval India. Epigraphic Evidence and Abhorrence of Vacuum ?. *BSOAS *38, p. 525-549. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture Le jeu. 21 janv. 2021 ? 14:41, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit : > Dear List members, > > I am looking for an article of which I have forgotten the details. If I > remember well it has appeared in BSOAS and was written by Henning or a > person with a name like that. It deals with the horror vacui (maybe the > words are in the title), or how missing information in inscriptions is > filled in by historians. I am not so much looking for a pdf ? I do have > access to the electronic version of BSOAS ? but would like to know where I > can find it. > > Herman > > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Jan 21 14:15:59 2021 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 14:15:59 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about the publication details of an article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Manu, Yes, that is the article. Thank you very much, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: Manu Francis Verzonden: donderdag 21 januari 2021 14:56:01 Aan: Tieken, H.J.H. CC: indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about the publication details of an article Dear Herman, Could it be this one? Best. Henige, David P. (1975). ? Some Phantom Dynasties of early and medieval India. Epigraphic Evidence and Abhorrence of Vacuum ?. BSOAS 38, p. 525-549. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture Le jeu. 21 janv. 2021 ? 14:41, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Dear List members, I am looking for an article of which I have forgotten the details. If I remember well it has appeared in BSOAS and was written by Henning or a person with a name like that. It deals with the horror vacui (maybe the words are in the title), or how missing information in inscriptions is filled in by historians. I am not so much looking for a pdf ? I do have access to the electronic version of BSOAS ? but would like to know where I can find it. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Jan 21 17:38:55 2021 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 21 18:38:55 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kadambari Commentary jivananda Vidasagara PDF req In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94B5C10A-CAD8-4154-BDE6-69A1CADE50F2@uclouvain.be> This 1871 Calcutta edition of Kadambari has a gloss in footnote - could it be the one by Jivananda Vidyasagara? See: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008693988 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433081850665&view=1up&seq=9 It is supposed to be edited by S?ri?ta?ra?na?thatarkava?caspatibhat?t?a?carya who already gave one ed. without gloss in 1849-1850 https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011619290 > Le 21 janv. 2021 ? 13:19, Krishnaprasad G via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > https://search.clevnet.org/client/en_US/clevnet/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ILS$002f0$002fSD_ILS:1096498/one > > I am trying to get this book since 2011. Can anyone help me with this? > > On 21-Sep-2017 8:29 PM, "Krishnaprasad G" > wrote: > I have got a link here which is from Ohio US Library. If any one confirms this edition has the commentary I would initiate a request for scan. > > Thanks > > https://search.clevnet.org/client/en_US/clevnet/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ILS$002f0$002fSD_ILS:1096498/one > > On 21-Sep-2017 6:39 PM, "Krishnaprasad G" > wrote: > Dear all > I am searching for the Commentary of Jivananda Vidyasagara on Kadambari of Bana Bhatta. From long time With lot of search having no succes. > > If anyone is having or can get access to your near by libraries would scan will be a great favor for me. > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rblinderman at g.harvard.edu Fri Jan 22 18:27:16 2021 From: rblinderman at g.harvard.edu (Blinderman, Radha) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 21 19:27:16 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PDF_request:_Jainendravy=C4=81kara=E1=B9=87a,_=C5=9A=C4=81ka=E1=B9=AD=C4=81yana=C5=9Babd=C4=81nu=C5=9B=C4=81sana,_Sa=E1=B9=81k=E1=B9=A3iptas=C4=81ra_Vy=C4=81kara=E1=B9=87a?= Message-ID: Dear All, Does any of you have PDFs of the following grammars? Jainendravy?kara?a, with Jainendra Mah?v?tti ??ka??yana?abd?nu??sana with Amoghav?tti Sa?k?iptas?ra Vy?kara?a (Saini, R. S., Jumaranand?, and Goy?candra. Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?am. 1. ?vr?tti. ed. Dill?, Bh?rata: Bh?rat?ya Vidy? Prak??ana, 1995.) Unfortunately my university library is giving me only limited access to Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?a, does not have the edition of ??ka??yana?abd?nu??sana with Amoghav?tti, and does not give me access to the Jainendravy?kara?a. I will be truly grateful if I could get your help with these texts. Gratefully, Radhika -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rblinderman at g.harvard.edu Fri Jan 22 18:47:44 2021 From: rblinderman at g.harvard.edu (Blinderman, Radha) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 21 19:47:44 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_PDF_request:_Jainendravy=C4=81kara=E1=B9=87a,_=C5=9A=C4=81ka=E1=B9=AD=C4=81yana=C5=9Babd=C4=81nu=C5=9B=C4=81sana,_Sa=E1=B9=81k=E1=B9=A3iptas=C4=81ra_Vy=C4=81kara=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, I just received the Jainendravy?kara?a and the ??ka??yana?abd?nu??sana, so now I only need the Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?a (Saini, R. S., Jumaranand?, and Goy?candra. Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?am. 1. ?vr?tti. ed. Dill?, Bh?rata: Bh?rat?ya Vidy? Prak??ana, 1995). Again, many thanks for your kind help! Gratefully, Radhika On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 7:27 PM Blinderman, Radha wrote: > Dear All, > > Does any of you have PDFs of the following grammars? > > Jainendravy?kara?a, with Jainendra Mah?v?tti > ??ka??yana?abd?nu??sana with Amoghav?tti > Sa?k?iptas?ra Vy?kara?a (Saini, R. S., Jumaranand?, and Goy?candra. > Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?am. 1. ?vr?tti. ed. Dill?, Bh?rata: Bh?rat?ya Vidy? > Prak??ana, 1995.) > > Unfortunately my university library is giving me only limited access > to Sa?k?iptas?ravy?kara?a, does not have the edition > of ??ka??yana?abd?nu??sana with Amoghav?tti, and does not give me access to > the Jainendravy?kara?a. I will be truly grateful if I could get your help > with these texts. > > Gratefully, > Radhika > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.demichelis at ymail.com Fri Jan 22 23:57:29 2021 From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 21 23:57:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Journal of Yoga Studies - publication of Vol. 3 In-Reply-To: <1164021269.1595133.1611359849035.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1164021269.1595133.1611359849035@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Colleagues, It is my pleasure to announce the publication of Volume 3 of the Journal of Yoga Studies; you will find the table of contents here. The Journal remains open access and the whole volume (as well as the individual contributions) can be freely accessed online and downloaded in pdf form. With best regards,Elizabeth De Michelis(info) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Jan 23 00:58:42 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 21 16:58:42 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question about Gandhari Prakrit Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I have a question about the Gandhari Prakrit. From the Gandhari Dharmapada edited by John Brough to recent publications of the Buddhist Gandhari materials, we have come to learn of Gandhari as a variety of Prakrit. To my memory, the Prakrit grammars do not mention Gandhari Prakrit, while they do refer to numerous regional varieties. I am just wondering why the Gandhari Prakrit did not enter into the description of Prakrit varieties by the Prakrit grammarians. If P??ini's grammar coming from the Swat valley survived and prospered in the mainland of India, why did the Gandhari Prakrit remain unknown? Any suggestions? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch Sat Jan 23 08:19:19 2021 From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 08:19:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question about Gandhari Prakrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <43B32D54-7D41-4C74-88F5-FB9F97508F88@unil.ch> Dear Madhav, You raise an interesting question. One factor that must probably be taken into consideration in trying to answer it is the following: Though a center of Vedic culture at the time of P??ini (i.e., presumably before Alexander's invasion and the Maurya Empire), Gandh?ra was no longer Brahmanical territory after the collapse of that empire. This I argue at length in my book How the Brahmins Won (Brill 2016), especially ? I.1.3. Johannes Bronkhorst On 23 Jan 2021, at 00:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Colleagues, I have a question about the Gandhari Prakrit. From the Gandhari Dharmapada edited by John Brough to recent publications of the Buddhist Gandhari materials, we have come to learn of Gandhari as a variety of Prakrit. To my memory, the Prakrit grammars do not mention Gandhari Prakrit, while they do refer to numerous regional varieties. I am just wondering why the Gandhari Prakrit did not enter into the description of Prakrit varieties by the Prakrit grammarians. If P??ini's grammar coming from the Swat valley survived and prospered in the mainland of India, why did the Gandhari Prakrit remain unknown? Any suggestions? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sat Jan 23 11:27:19 2021 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 11:27:19 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_absence_of_G=C4=81ndh=C4=81r=C4=AB_among_the_literary_Pr=C4=81krits?= Message-ID: <4691730092574a2891a8dcc11ec967ed@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Dear Madhav, Pr?krits are literary languages developed within the K?vya literary tradition. They are imitations of the spoken languages (Middle Indic languages) on the basis of Sanskrit. Sanskrit serves as a primer. The tradition started early. However, some of the literary dialects have been developed fairly late: M?h?r???r? on the basis of a kind of a ?aurasen?-like dialect in which intervocalic t had been voiced, Apabhra??a, the language of popular songs sung during festivals on the basis of this M?h?r???r?, the language of the Dhruv? songs .... etc. (see my article in JESHO 51/2 (2008) (pdf on my website). G?ndh?r? was spoken on the fringe and was therefore and for reasons mentioned by Johannes Bronkhorst not included in these linguistic experiments in what basically was a Sanskrit tradition. I think this last argument, that we are dealing with a Sanskrit tradition, is the main point. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Jan 23 13:28:10 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 05:28:10 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question about Gandhari Prakrit In-Reply-To: <43B32D54-7D41-4C74-88F5-FB9F97508F88@unil.ch> Message-ID: Thanks, Johannes and Herman. Your responses are along the lines that I suspected, but I wanted a more authoritative confirmation than my own hunch. I have suggested that P??ini survives in Pata?jali's ?ry?varta, but his homeland is no longer within its limits. Best wishes, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:19 AM Johannes Bronkhorst < johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote: > Dear Madhav, > > You raise an interesting question. One factor that must probably be taken > into consideration in trying to answer it is the following: Though a center > of Vedic culture at the time of P??ini (i.e., presumably before Alexander's > invasion and the Maurya Empire), Gandh?ra was no longer Brahmanical > territory after the collapse of that empire. This I argue at length in my > book *How the Brahmins Won* (Brill 2016), especially ? I.1.3. > > Johannes Bronkhorst > > > On 23 Jan 2021, at 00:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > I have a question about the Gandhari Prakrit. From the Gandhari > Dharmapada edited by John Brough to recent publications of the Buddhist > Gandhari materials, we have come to learn of Gandhari as a variety of > Prakrit. To my memory, the Prakrit grammars do not mention Gandhari > Prakrit, while they do refer to numerous regional varieties. I am just > wondering why the Gandhari Prakrit did not enter into the description of > Prakrit varieties by the Prakrit grammarians. If P??ini's grammar coming > from the Swat valley survived and prospered in the mainland of India, why > did the Gandhari Prakrit remain unknown? Any suggestions? > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rospatt at berkeley.edu Sat Jan 23 16:09:59 2021 From: rospatt at berkeley.edu (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 17:09:59 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Shinjo Ito Postdoctoral Fellowship - Buddhist Studies at UC Berkeley Message-ID: <1FD53887-B1D1-40DC-8D0B-542B0FFD2EBE@berkeley.edu> Dear Colleagues, please note that the call for applications for the Shinjo Ito Postdoctoral Fellowship - Buddhist Studies at UC Berkeley has opened, and forward this to anyone potentially interested and qualified. Please note that this postdoctoral fellowshiop is not for scholar working primarily in the are of Japanese or Chinese Buddhism. Review of applications will begin FEBRUARY 28, 2021. With kind regards, Alexander v. Rospatt ???????? Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Group in Buddhist Studies, Director University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Zoom room # 923 014 7373 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu http://sseas.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/alexander-von-rospatt Shinjo Ito Postdoctoral Fellowship - Buddhist Studies - Center for Buddhist Studies (JPF02828) With the generous support of the Shinnyo-en Foundation, the Program in Buddhist Studies at UC Berkeley is pleased to invite applications for a two-year full-time postdoctoral research-teaching fellowship. The term of the appointment is July 1, 2021 to June 30, 2023. The Fellowship is intended to foster the academic careers of recent Ph.D.'s, providing time to pursue their research along with the opportunity to gain teaching experience. Fellows are expected to teach one course per year as a Lecturer under the auspices of the Group in Buddhist Studies. In addition, Fellows will give a public lecture on their research as part of the Center for Buddhist Studies Colloquium Series, and they are expected to take part in regular Center for Buddhist Studies events and workshops. We particularly welcome applicants whose research and teaching interests complement areas covered by Berkeley's Buddhist Studies faculty. Fellows will be provided with office space, library privileges, salary of approximately $60,000 per annum, benefits, and $2,500 per annum in research/travel funds. Funding and administrative support is also available for Fellows to convene workshops and conferences in their area of research. Applicants whose teaching and research interests are primarily in the area of Japanese Buddhism should apply to the Shinjo Ito Postdoctoral Fellowship in Japanese Buddhism, administered through the Center for Japanese Studies at UC Berkeley, rather than to the Shinjo Ito Fellowship in Buddhist Studies. Applicants whose teaching and research interests are primarily in the area of Chinese Buddhism should apply to the Sheng Yen Postdoctoral Fellowship in Chinese Buddhism, also administered through the Center for Buddhist Studies at UC Berkeley, rather than to the Shinjo Ito Fellowship in Buddhist Studies. Basic Qualifications (at the time of application): ? Completion of all degree requirements other than the dissertation. Additional Qualifications (must be met by the start date of the job): ? Candidates may have no more than three years of post-PhD research experience. ? PhD or equivalent international degree by start date. Preferred Qualifications: ? PhD or equivalent international degree in Buddhist Studies or a closely related field. Application Process: All application materials must be submitted through AP Recruit at https://aprecruit.berkeley.edu/JPF02830 . Review of applications will begin FEBRUARY 28, 2021. The position is open until filled. Please direct any questions to Sanjyot Mehendale at sanjyotm at berkeley.edu . All application materials must be submitted through AP Recruit at https://aprecruit.berkeley.edu/JPF02828 . The position is open until filled. Please direct any questions to Sanjyot Mehendale at sanjyotm at berkeley.edu . All letters of recommendation will be treated as confidential per University of California policy and California state law. Please refer potential referees, including when letters are provided via a third party (i.e., dossier service or career center), to the UC Berkeley statement of confidentiality (http://apo.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html ) prior to submitting their letters. Only complete applications will be considered. It is the applicant's responsibility to ensure that all documentation is complete to ensure full consideration. Awards are anticipated to be announced in March, 2021. For more information about Buddhist Studies at Berkeley, please visit http://buddhiststudies.berkeley.edu . The University of California is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, age or protected veteran status. For the complete University of California nondiscrimination and affirmative action policy see: http://policy.ucop.edu/doc/4000376/NondiscrimAffirmAct . The department is interested in candidates who will contribute to diversity and equal opportunity in higher education through their work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Sat Jan 23 19:33:00 2021 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 13:33:00 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question about Gandhari Prakrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I will not refer to my own book on the history of Prakrit and its forms of knowledge (well, I guess I just did), but I did want to make a few points in this connection and see if anyone has anything to add. (1) "Gandhari Prakrit" is of course a modern designation. The term "Gandhari" was made up by H. W. Bailey in 1946, and we don't know (or at least I don't know) how the speakers of the language referred to it, or whether they knew of "Prakrit" as a designation for a language or a type of language. (2) The earliest Prakrit grammars were grammars of one specific literary language, which they called "Prakrit," and even they were probably composed at a time when Gandhari had ceased to be used as a literary language in the Northwest. (This certainly seems to be true of the earliest grammar that survives in its entirety, the Pr?k?taprak??a, which in its original form only described a single language, as Nitti-Dolci showed 83 years ago.) (3) One exception to the above is the N??ya??stra, which briefly describes a number of notionally regional languages (alongside a more general distinction between Sanskrit and Prakrit). Sylvain L?vi argued 119 years ago that the languages of Indian theater "radiate like a fan around Ujjayin?." Now it doesn't seem that anything like Gandhari is used in any surviving plays. But languages like B?hl?k?, ?ak?r?, and ?bh?r? are mentioned in the N??ya??stra, and it seems likely that they were at least notionally connected to the speech of the Northwest. (Of course the theatrical languages are based on conventions of representation, and not on a premodern "Linguistic Survey of India.") Andrew On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:29 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Thanks, Johannes and Herman. Your responses are along the lines that I > suspected, but I wanted a more authoritative confirmation than my own > hunch. I have suggested that P??ini survives in Pata?jali's ?ry?varta, but > his homeland is no longer within its limits. Best wishes, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:19 AM Johannes Bronkhorst < > johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote: > >> Dear Madhav, >> >> You raise an interesting question. One factor that must probably be taken >> into consideration in trying to answer it is the following: Though a center >> of Vedic culture at the time of P??ini (i.e., presumably before Alexander's >> invasion and the Maurya Empire), Gandh?ra was no longer Brahmanical >> territory after the collapse of that empire. This I argue at length in my >> book *How the Brahmins Won* (Brill 2016), especially ? I.1.3. >> >> Johannes Bronkhorst >> >> >> On 23 Jan 2021, at 00:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I have a question about the Gandhari Prakrit. From the Gandhari >> Dharmapada edited by John Brough to recent publications of the Buddhist >> Gandhari materials, we have come to learn of Gandhari as a variety of >> Prakrit. To my memory, the Prakrit grammars do not mention Gandhari >> Prakrit, while they do refer to numerous regional varieties. I am just >> wondering why the Gandhari Prakrit did not enter into the description of >> Prakrit varieties by the Prakrit grammarians. If P??ini's grammar coming >> from the Swat valley survived and prospered in the mainland of India, why >> did the Gandhari Prakrit remain unknown? Any suggestions? >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, >> India >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Jan 23 19:50:06 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 11:50:06 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question about Gandhari Prakrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Andrew, for providing several clarifications. I am exploring the degree of disconnect of the ?ryavarta centered culture reflected in the Mah?bh??ya of Pata?jali from the northwestern region of P??ini. Pata?jali does occasionally refer to Kashmir. I wonder if the region of Kamboja that is referred to by Pata?jali would include P??ini's ?al?tura. If my memory serves me, Thieme takes Kamboja to refer to the eastern Iranian border regions. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:33 AM Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > I will not refer to my own book on the history of Prakrit and its forms of > knowledge (well, I guess I just did), but I did want to make a few points > in this connection and see if anyone has anything to add. > > (1) "Gandhari Prakrit" is of course a modern designation. The > term "Gandhari" was made up by H. W. Bailey in 1946, and we don't know (or > at least I don't know) how the speakers of the language referred to it, or > whether they knew of "Prakrit" as a designation for a language or a type of > language. > > (2) The earliest Prakrit grammars were grammars of one specific literary > language, which they called "Prakrit," and even they were probably composed > at a time when Gandhari had ceased to be used as a literary language in the > Northwest. (This certainly seems to be true of the earliest grammar that > survives in its entirety, the Pr?k?taprak??a, which in its original form > only described a single language, as Nitti-Dolci showed 83 years ago.) > > (3) One exception to the above is the N??ya??stra, which briefly describes > a number of notionally regional languages (alongside a more general > distinction between Sanskrit and Prakrit). Sylvain L?vi argued 119 years > ago that the languages of Indian theater "radiate like a fan around > Ujjayin?." Now it doesn't seem that anything like Gandhari is used in any > surviving plays. But languages like B?hl?k?, ?ak?r?, and ?bh?r? are > mentioned in the N??ya??stra, and it seems likely that they were at least > notionally connected to the speech of the Northwest. (Of course the > theatrical languages are based on conventions of representation, and not on > a premodern "Linguistic Survey of India.") > > Andrew > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:29 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Thanks, Johannes and Herman. Your responses are along the lines that I >> suspected, but I wanted a more authoritative confirmation than my own >> hunch. I have suggested that P??ini survives in Pata?jali's ?ry?varta, but >> his homeland is no longer within its limits. Best wishes, >> >> Madhav >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, >> India >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:19 AM Johannes Bronkhorst < >> johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote: >> >>> Dear Madhav, >>> >>> You raise an interesting question. One factor that must probably be >>> taken into consideration in trying to answer it is the following: Though a >>> center of Vedic culture at the time of P??ini (i.e., presumably before >>> Alexander's invasion and the Maurya Empire), Gandh?ra was no longer >>> Brahmanical territory after the collapse of that empire. This I argue at >>> length in my book *How the Brahmins Won* (Brill 2016), especially ? >>> I.1.3. >>> >>> Johannes Bronkhorst >>> >>> >>> On 23 Jan 2021, at 00:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I have a question about the Gandhari Prakrit. From the Gandhari >>> Dharmapada edited by John Brough to recent publications of the Buddhist >>> Gandhari materials, we have come to learn of Gandhari as a variety of >>> Prakrit. To my memory, the Prakrit grammars do not mention Gandhari >>> Prakrit, while they do refer to numerous regional varieties. I am just >>> wondering why the Gandhari Prakrit did not enter into the description of >>> Prakrit varieties by the Prakrit grammarians. If P??ini's grammar coming >>> from the Swat valley survived and prospered in the mainland of India, why >>> did the Gandhari Prakrit remain unknown? Any suggestions? >>> >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, >>> India >>> >>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Sun Jan 24 00:30:01 2021 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 17:30:01 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= Message-ID: Dear all, I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Sun Jan 24 01:00:32 2021 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 19:00:32 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4534A5AB-6764-43C9-8645-762C3F76C550@aol.com> I recently came across Auvai Turaic?mip Pi??ai?s interpretation of some key details of Akam 113, and Akam 226. He makes these comments in his introduction to the decad called P??a? Pattu of his commentary on Ai?ku?un??u (1958: 1028-29). (See attachment.) I do not know if he has provided detailed commentaries for the two poems. With respect to Akam 113, Pillai says that the ruler P??a? belonged to a section of the bardic community of the P??ar that did not engage in music and dance but excelled in wrestling and ruling the land. He refers to Perump??app??i, etc., which we had discussed earlier in the thread. Pillai adds that the descendants of that P???? were later called V??ar, V???tir?yar, V??ataraiyar, and V??ak?varaiyar. Pillai?s interpretation has been accepted by many later scholars such as Ve. Varatar?can (1973: 15) and Ir?. I?a?kumara? (1987: 141). This confirms my interpretation of e??a in Akam 113.17 as 'not making music?. (For the affirmative use of e??i in the sense of music making, see Pati??uppattu 29.7-8.) In this context, it should be noted that the critical edition of Akan????u by Eva Wilden (2018) interprets the text ?e??[a]p p??a?? as ?the bard who does not rise?. In my view, Wilden got only half of it right. She is right to translate p??a? as ?the bard?. But, Wilden has interpreted e?? as deriving from DEDR 851 e?u- 'to rise'. It should be related to DEDR 5156 y??, ???, stringed musical instrument; e?u- 'to emit sound?? The correct interpretation is ?the bard who does not play the lute/make music?. This usage is the converse of 'por?ap porunar' in Pu?am 386.19, where 'non-fighting warriors? is used to refer to bards, where both the bards and warriors can be denoted by the word ?porunar?. One may argue that the fact Akam 113 uses ?e??[a]? to describe ?P??a?? may simply indicate the homophonous nature of the name of the ruler ?P??a?? and the word for the bard, ?p??a?,? and not necessarily the fact that the ruler was of bardic origin. But, we know that the bards had received villages as gifts from Pu?am 302. But, with respect to bards receiving a bigger territory, we have that possibility supported by Ci?up?????uppa?ai 109 according to which the chief ?ri gave ?the good country with small hills to K??iyar?. Pillai (1958: 1030) states that depending on what they did, P??ar were known by several names such as P??ar, Akavunar, K?ttar, K??iyar, Iyavar, and Porunar. In a similar manner, the P??ar could have received some territory in the northern border area of the Tamil region, which could have become the base of the P??ar, who later became the B??as. As for the bards becoming warriors, it is not impossible for one to have both skills. In the famous Tanjavur temple inscription South Indian Inscriptions, vol 2, no.66, there are several members of the crack troops of ??jar?ja I (Terinta Vala?kai V??aikk?rar, Terinta Parikk?rar) who have been given grants as musicians (pp.299-300). The dynastic drift of the B??as from the northern Tamil border area into Telugu or Kannada regions is nothing unusual. As I already noted in an earlier post, a branch of C??as settled in the Cudappah district of the Telugu region in the 7th century can be seen to drift all the way to Sonepur in South Kosala (Orissa) in the 12th century Mahad? plates of Somesvaradevavarman. In Akam 226, Pillai does not interpret P??a? as an ally of Ka??i who fled without fighting in the court of the C??a king Titta? Ve?iya?. Rather, it was P??a?, who was in the court of the Ch??a king, the intended adversary of Ka??i. Modern scholars like V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai (1946: 454) unnecessarily add a word ?k?ti? meaning ?having joined? to ?P??a?o?u? to come up with the misinterpreted meaning. The verb ?poru? ?to fight? is preceded by the adversary being fought/intended to be fought by the subject of the verb with the case marker ?o?u'. Perhaps N????r was influenced by R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r (1923: 1670), who interpreted P??a? as an ally of Ka??i in his earlier edition. Hart (2015: 232) has followed N?tt?r?s interpretation. George L. Hart, 2015. The Four Hundred Songs of Love. Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Ir?. I?a?kumara?, 1987. P??ar. Ma?iv?cakar Patippakam, Citamparam. R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r, 1923. E??uttokaiyu? Ne?untokai ?kum Akan????u Mulamum Uraiyum. V?. Ir?jak?p?laiya?k?r Patippu, Mayil?pp?r. Na. Mu. V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai, 1946. E??uttokaiyil O????a Akan????u Ma?imi?ai P?va?am. Tirunelv?li, Tennintiya Caiva Citt??ta Nu?patippuk Ka?akam, Ce??ai. Auvai Turaic?mip Pillai, 1958. E??uttokaiyil O???kiya Ai?ku?un??u Mulamum Vi?akkavuraiyum. Part III. Mullai. A???malaip palkalaik ka?akatt?r?l ve?iyi?appe??atu. Ve. Varatar?ca?, 1973. Tami?pp??ar V??vum Varal??um. P???a? Patippakam, Ce??ai. Eva Wilden, 2018. A Critical Edition and an Annotated Translation of the Akan????u, 3 volumes. ?cole Fran?aise D?Extr?me-Orient and Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Regards, Palaniappan On Oct 22, 2012, at 11:13 PM, palaniappa at aol.com wrote: Dear George, I appreciate your comments. As for the fonts, I like to use the diacritic fonts too whenever possible. In my first post, I did use the diacritic fonts. But, when Dr. Tieken replied to my post the diacritic fonts in my earlier post showed up as question marks in my Mac. Since there were not too many participants in the thread, to be safe, I resorted to the transliteration I used. Thanks Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AinkurunuruandPanarbyAuvaiTuraicamipPillai.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1601834 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Sun Jan 24 01:08:14 2021 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 21 19:08:14 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <4534A5AB-6764-43C9-8645-762C3F76C550@aol.com> Message-ID: <1E38A238-0EEC-4D8E-8C44-46A737547735@aol.com> I am reposting after correcting some typos. I recently came across Auvai Turaic?mip Pi??ai?s interpretation of some key details of Akam 113, and Akam 226. He makes these comments in his introduction to the decad called P??a? Pattu of his commentary on Ai?ku?un??u (1958: 1028-29). (See attachment.) I do not know if he has provided detailed commentaries for the two poems. With respect to Akam 113, Pillai says that the ruler P??a? belonged to a section of the bardic community of the P??ar that did not engage in music and dance but excelled in wrestling and ruling the land. He refers to Perump??app??i, etc., which we had discussed earlier in the thread. Pillai adds that the descendants of that P???? were later called V??ar, V???tir?yar, V??ataraiyar, and V??ak?varaiyar. Pillai?s interpretation has been accepted by many later scholars such as Ve. Varatar?can (1973: 15) and Ir?. I?a?kumara? (1987: 141). This confirms my interpretation of e??a in Akam 113.17 as 'not making music?. (For the affirmative use of e??i in the sense of music making, see Pati??uppattu 29.7-8.) In this context, it should be noted that the critical edition of Akan????u by Eva Wilden (2018) interprets the text ?e??[a]p p??a?? as ?the bard who does not rise?. In my view, Wilden got only half of it right. She is right to translate p??a? as ?the bard?. But, Wilden has interpreted e?? as deriving from DEDR 851 e?u- 'to rise'. It should be related to DEDR 5156 y??, ???, stringed musical instrument; e?u- 'to emit sound?? The correct interpretation is ?the bard who does not play the lute/make music?. This usage is the converse of 'por?ap porunar' in Pu?am 386.19, where 'non-fighting warriors? is used to refer to bards, where both the bards and warriors can be denoted by the word ?porunar?. One may argue that the fact Akam 113 uses ?e??[a]? to describe ?P??a?? may simply indicate the homophonous nature of the name of the ruler ?P??a?? and the word for the bard, ?p??a?,? and not necessarily show that the ruler was of bardic origin. But, we know that the bards had received villages as gifts from Pu?am 302. But, with respect to bards receiving a bigger territory, we have that possibility supported by Ci?up?????uppa?ai 109 according to which the chief ?ri gave ?the good country with small hills to K??iyar?. Pillai (1958: 1030) states that depending on what they did, P??ar were known by several names such as P??ar, Akavunar, K?ttar, K??iyar, Iyavar, and Porunar. In a similar manner, the P??ar could have received some territory in the northern border area of the Tamil region, which could have become the base of the P??ar, who later became the B??as. As for the bards becoming warriors, it is not impossible for one to have both skills. In the famous Tanjavur temple inscription South Indian Inscriptions, vol 2, no.66, there are several members of the crack troops of ??jar?ja I (Terinta Vala?kai V??aikk?rar, Terinta Parikk?rar) who have been given grants as musicians (pp.299-300). The dynastic drift of the B??as from the northern Tamil border area into Telugu or Kannada regions is nothing unusual. As I already noted in an earlier post, a branch of C??as settled in the Cudappah district of the Telugu region in the 7th century can be seen to drift all the way to Sonepur in South Kosala (Orissa) in the 12th century Mahad? plates of Somesvaradevavarman. In Akam 226, Pillai does not interpret P??a? as an ally of Ka??i who fled without fighting in the court of the C??a king Titta? Ve?iya?. Rather, it was P??a?, who was in the court of the Ch??a king, the intended adversary of Ka??i. Modern scholars like V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai (1946: 454) unnecessarily add a word ?k??i? meaning ?having joined? to ?P??a?o?u? to come up with the misinterpreted meaning. The verb ?poru? ?to fight? is preceded by the adversary being fought/intended to be fought by the subject of the verb with the case marker ?o?u'. Perhaps N????r was influenced by R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r (1923: 1670), who interpreted P??a? as an ally of Ka??i in his earlier edition. Hart (2015: 232) has followed N?tt?r?s interpretation. George L. Hart, 2015. The Four Hundred Songs of Love. Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Ir?. I?a?kumara?, 1987. P??ar. Ma?iv?cakar Patippakam, Citamparam. R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r, 1923. E??uttokaiyu? Ne?untokai ?kum Akan????u Mulamum Uraiyum. V?. Ir?jak?p?laiya?k?r Patippu, Mayil?pp?r. Na. Mu. V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai, 1946. E??uttokaiyil O????a Akan????u Ma?imi?ai P?va?am. Tirunelv?li, Tennintiya Caiva Citt??ta Nu?patippuk Ka?akam, Ce??ai. Auvai Turaic?mip Pillai, 1958. E??uttokaiyil O???kiya Ai?ku?un??u Mulamum Vi?akkavuraiyum. Part III. Mullai. A???malaip palkalaik ka?akatt?r?l ve?iyi?appe??atu. Ve. Varatar?ca?, 1973. Tami?pp??ar V??vum Varal??um. P???a? Patippakam, Ce??ai. Eva Wilden, 2018. A Critical Edition and an Annotated Translation of the Akan????u, 3 volumes. ?cole Fran?aise D?Extr?me-Orient and Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Regards, Palaniappan On Oct 22, 2012, at 11:13 PM, palaniappa at aol.com wrote: Dear George, I appreciate your comments. As for the fonts, I like to use the diacritic fonts too whenever possible. In my first post, I did use the diacritic fonts. But, when Dr. Tieken replied to my post the diacritic fonts in my earlier post showed up as question marks in my Mac. Since there were not too many participants in the thread, to be safe, I resorted to the transliteration I used. Thanks Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Sun Jan 24 04:41:45 2021 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 13:41:45 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Message-ID: Dear Friends, Might anyone have a copy of or access to this pdf? I've looked, but seem unable to find it in full. Shakespear, J. 1820. "Observations Regarding Badheks and T'hegs J Shakespeare." Asiatick Researches, Vol. 13. It is mentioned in the (footnote) of the following article: Stevenson, J.A.R. "Some Account of the P'hansig?rs, or Gang-robbers, and of the Sh?dgarshids, or Tribe of Jugglers." The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Vol. 1, No. 2 (1834), pp. 280-284. I'm wondering if this mention of the Vij??ne?v?ra??stra and "G?r?di (juggler )" can be taken to mean Mit?k?ar?'s Vij??ne?vara . Or is there are another similarly named text? I don't notice the term in this file on GRETIL. I wonder how it comes to mean juggler if in the Tulu/Kannada dictionary gives garo?i the meaning of gymnasium (????? garoo?i / ???? (gara?i). [image: shudgarshid_jijnaneswara_sastra_garodi.png] Thanks Patrick All the best, ????? ??????? Patrick McCartney, PhD Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) - [image: shudgarshid_jijnaneswara_sastra_garodi.png] All the best, ????? ??????? Patrick McCartney, PhD Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +61410644259 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sun Jan 24 08:34:26 2021 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 08:34:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <1E38A238-0EEC-4D8E-8C44-46A737547735@aol.com> Message-ID: <80fef4a5c9be452ca8c03e92ac1c8af5@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Dear Palaniappan, I think your interpretation of e?? p??a? is correct, as is that of por?a porunar. I like to add another instance of this type of compound (about this, more below), from AN 24: v?l??p p?rppa? Wilden's (ad hoc) interpretation of this compound runs as follows: we would have to do with a non-sacrificing brahmin (p?rppa?) making a living by, in this case, cutting bangles, when he is unable to do so by officiating at sacrifices. Also here, your interpretation applies: we have to do with a craftsman referred by the same name as a brahmin priest. The craftsman is distinguished from the latter by v?l??. I have dealt with the passage in "Translating Tamil Ca?kam Poetry: Taking Stock" (OLZ 118 (4-5) (2020), pp. 287-303, esp. p. 294-5 and ftn 60) (By contract I am not allowed to place a pdf link on my website) As to the type of compound, I do not have the article at hand, but I think it is precisely the one dealt with by Leendert van Daalen in "A Note on vidh?ma or sadh?ma iva p?vaka at R?m?ya?a ...." in IT 7 (1979), 171-189. With kind regards Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY namens Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2021 02:08:14 Aan: Indology List Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems I am reposting after correcting some typos. I recently came across Auvai Turaic?mip Pi??ai?s interpretation of some key details of Akam 113, and Akam 226. He makes these comments in his introduction to the decad called P??a? Pattu of his commentary on Ai?ku?un??u (1958: 1028-29). (See attachment.) I do not know if he has provided detailed commentaries for the two poems. With respect to Akam 113, Pillai says that the ruler P??a? belonged to a section of the bardic community of the P??ar that did not engage in music and dance but excelled in wrestling and ruling the land. He refers to Perump??app??i, etc., which we had discussed earlier in the thread. Pillai adds that the descendants of that P???? were later called V??ar, V???tir?yar, V??ataraiyar, and V??ak?varaiyar. Pillai?s interpretation has been accepted by many later scholars such as Ve. Varatar?can (1973: 15) and Ir?. I?a?kumara? (1987: 141). This confirms my interpretation of e??a in Akam 113.17 as 'not making music?. (For the affirmative use of e??i in the sense of music making, see Pati??uppattu 29.7-8.) In this context, it should be noted that the critical edition of Akan????u by Eva Wilden (2018) interprets the text ?e??[a]p p??a?? as ?the bard who does not rise?. In my view, Wilden got only half of it right. She is right to translate p??a? as ?the bard?. But, Wilden has interpreted e?? as deriving from DEDR 851 e?u- 'to rise'. It should be related to DEDR 5156 y??, ???, stringed musical instrument; e?u- 'to emit sound?? The correct interpretation is ?the bard who does not play the lute/make music?. This usage is the converse of 'por?ap porunar' in Pu?am 386.19, where 'non-fighting warriors? is used to refer to bards, where both the bards and warriors can be denoted by the word ?porunar?. One may argue that the fact Akam 113 uses ?e??[a]? to describe ?P??a?? may simply indicate the homophonous nature of the name of the ruler ?P??a?? and the word for the bard, ?p??a?,? and not necessarily show that the ruler was of bardic origin. But, we know that the bards had received villages as gifts from Pu?am 302. But, with respect to bards receiving a bigger territory, we have that possibility supported by Ci?up?????uppa?ai 109 according to which the chief ?ri gave ?the good country with small hills to K??iyar?. Pillai (1958: 1030) states that depending on what they did, P??ar were known by several names such as P??ar, Akavunar, K?ttar, K??iyar, Iyavar, and Porunar. In a similar manner, the P??ar could have received some territory in the northern border area of the Tamil region, which could have become the base of the P??ar, who later became the B??as. As for the bards becoming warriors, it is not impossible for one to have both skills. In the famous Tanjavur temple inscription South Indian Inscriptions, vol 2, no.66, there are several members of the crack troops of ??jar?ja I (Terinta Vala?kai V??aikk?rar, Terinta Parikk?rar) who have been given grants as musicians (pp.299-300). The dynastic drift of the B??as from the northern Tamil border area into Telugu or Kannada regions is nothing unusual. As I already noted in an earlier post, a branch of C??as settled in the Cudappah district of the Telugu region in the 7th century can be seen to drift all the way to Sonepur in South Kosala (Orissa) in the 12th century Mahad? plates of Somesvaradevavarman. In Akam 226, Pillai does not interpret P??a? as an ally of Ka??i who fled without fighting in the court of the C??a king Titta? Ve?iya?. Rather, it was P??a?, who was in the court of the Ch??a king, the intended adversary of Ka??i. Modern scholars like V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai (1946: 454) unnecessarily add a word ?k??i? meaning ?having joined? to ?P??a?o?u? to come up with the misinterpreted meaning. The verb ?poru? ?to fight? is preceded by the adversary being fought/intended to be fought by the subject of the verb with the case marker ?o?u'. Perhaps N????r was influenced by R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r (1923: 1670), who interpreted P??a? as an ally of Ka??i in his earlier edition. Hart (2015: 232) has followed N?tt?r?s interpretation. George L. Hart, 2015. The Four Hundred Songs of Love. Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Ir?. I?a?kumara?, 1987. P??ar. Ma?iv?cakar Patippakam, Citamparam. R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r, 1923. E??uttokaiyu? Ne?untokai ?kum Akan????u Mulamum Uraiyum. V?. Ir?jak?p?laiya?k?r Patippu, Mayil?pp?r. Na. Mu. V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai, 1946. E??uttokaiyil O????a Akan????u Ma?imi?ai P?va?am. Tirunelv?li, Tennintiya Caiva Citt??ta Nu?patippuk Ka?akam, Ce??ai. Auvai Turaic?mip Pillai, 1958. E??uttokaiyil O???kiya Ai?ku?un??u Mulamum Vi?akkavuraiyum. Part III. Mullai. A???malaip palkalaik ka?akatt?r?l ve?iyi?appe??atu. Ve. Varatar?ca?, 1973. Tami?pp??ar V??vum Varal??um. P???a? Patippakam, Ce??ai. Eva Wilden, 2018. A Critical Edition and an Annotated Translation of the Akan????u, 3 volumes. ?cole Fran?aise D?Extr?me-Orient and Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Regards, Palaniappan On Oct 22, 2012, at 11:13 PM, palaniappa at aol.com wrote: Dear George, I appreciate your comments. As for the fonts, I like to use the diacritic fonts too whenever possible. In my first post, I did use the diacritic fonts. But, when Dr. Tieken replied to my post the diacritic fonts in my earlier post showed up as question marks in my Mac. Since there were not too many participants in the thread, to be safe, I resorted to the transliteration I used. Thanks Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > wrote: Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at gmx.de Sun Jan 24 08:55:12 2021 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 09:55:12 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New version of the DCS Message-ID: <7a8fea2b-6dd5-f32f-04e6-67af7c8a1ee2@gmx.de> Dear all, after quite a while, a new version of the DCS has been released (http://sanskrit-linguistics.org/dcs/). Most changes took place in the Vedic subcorpus where new texts were added and existing ones corrected. The Pancavimsabr., for example, though one of the less exciting texts imo, has largely been reworked and should now be usable; same for many of the Grhyasutras. The corpus also shows syntactic annotations if available which were added by Erica Biagetti (Pavia), Salvatore Scarlata (Z?rich), Elia Ackermann (Z?rich) and me (see the first few suktas of the AV, for example). As always, updated source data can be found at github: https://github.com/OliverHellwig/sanskrit/tree/master/dcs/data Best, Oliver --- Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sun Jan 24 11:32:35 2021 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 11:32:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <80fef4a5c9be452ca8c03e92ac1c8af5@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: Dear Palaniappan, One more remark on the v?l??p p?rppa? and the other examples given mentione by you. From these constructions it would appear that the terms p?rppa?, porunar and p??a? refer to something like a (sub)caste called p?r?ppa? etc, whose members are not restricted to brahmins performing sacrificial duties. However, before being able to say something more in this line we have to have more examples of this type of compound. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY namens Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2021 09:34:26 Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan; indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think your interpretation of e?? p??a? is correct, as is that of por?a porunar. I like to add another instance of this type of compound (about this, more below), from AN 24: v?l??p p?rppa? Wilden's (ad hoc) interpretation of this compound runs as follows: we would have to do with a non-sacrificing brahmin (p?rppa?) making a living by, in this case, cutting bangles, when he is unable to do so by officiating at sacrifices. Also here, your interpretation applies: we have to do with a craftsman referred by the same name as a brahmin priest. The craftsman is distinguished from the latter by v?l??. I have dealt with the passage in "Translating Tamil Ca?kam Poetry: Taking Stock" (OLZ 118 (4-5) (2020), pp. 287-303, esp. p. 294-5 and ftn 60) (By contract I am not allowed to place a pdf link on my website) As to the type of compound, I do not have the article at hand, but I think it is precisely the one dealt with by Leendert van Daalen in "A Note on vidh?ma or sadh?ma iva p?vaka at R?m?ya?a ...." in IT 7 (1979), 171-189. With kind regards Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY namens Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2021 02:08:14 Aan: Indology List Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems I am reposting after correcting some typos. I recently came across Auvai Turaic?mip Pi??ai?s interpretation of some key details of Akam 113, and Akam 226. He makes these comments in his introduction to the decad called P??a? Pattu of his commentary on Ai?ku?un??u (1958: 1028-29). (See attachment.) I do not know if he has provided detailed commentaries for the two poems. With respect to Akam 113, Pillai says that the ruler P??a? belonged to a section of the bardic community of the P??ar that did not engage in music and dance but excelled in wrestling and ruling the land. He refers to Perump??app??i, etc., which we had discussed earlier in the thread. Pillai adds that the descendants of that P???? were later called V??ar, V???tir?yar, V??ataraiyar, and V??ak?varaiyar. Pillai?s interpretation has been accepted by many later scholars such as Ve. Varatar?can (1973: 15) and Ir?. I?a?kumara? (1987: 141). This confirms my interpretation of e??a in Akam 113.17 as 'not making music?. (For the affirmative use of e??i in the sense of music making, see Pati??uppattu 29.7-8.) In this context, it should be noted that the critical edition of Akan????u by Eva Wilden (2018) interprets the text ?e??[a]p p??a?? as ?the bard who does not rise?. In my view, Wilden got only half of it right. She is right to translate p??a? as ?the bard?. But, Wilden has interpreted e?? as deriving from DEDR 851 e?u- 'to rise'. It should be related to DEDR 5156 y??, ???, stringed musical instrument; e?u- 'to emit sound?? The correct interpretation is ?the bard who does not play the lute/make music?. This usage is the converse of 'por?ap porunar' in Pu?am 386.19, where 'non-fighting warriors? is used to refer to bards, where both the bards and warriors can be denoted by the word ?porunar?. One may argue that the fact Akam 113 uses ?e??[a]? to describe ?P??a?? may simply indicate the homophonous nature of the name of the ruler ?P??a?? and the word for the bard, ?p??a?,? and not necessarily show that the ruler was of bardic origin. But, we know that the bards had received villages as gifts from Pu?am 302. But, with respect to bards receiving a bigger territory, we have that possibility supported by Ci?up?????uppa?ai 109 according to which the chief ?ri gave ?the good country with small hills to K??iyar?. Pillai (1958: 1030) states that depending on what they did, P??ar were known by several names such as P??ar, Akavunar, K?ttar, K??iyar, Iyavar, and Porunar. In a similar manner, the P??ar could have received some territory in the northern border area of the Tamil region, which could have become the base of the P??ar, who later became the B??as. As for the bards becoming warriors, it is not impossible for one to have both skills. In the famous Tanjavur temple inscription South Indian Inscriptions, vol 2, no.66, there are several members of the crack troops of ??jar?ja I (Terinta Vala?kai V??aikk?rar, Terinta Parikk?rar) who have been given grants as musicians (pp.299-300). The dynastic drift of the B??as from the northern Tamil border area into Telugu or Kannada regions is nothing unusual. As I already noted in an earlier post, a branch of C??as settled in the Cudappah district of the Telugu region in the 7th century can be seen to drift all the way to Sonepur in South Kosala (Orissa) in the 12th century Mahad? plates of Somesvaradevavarman. In Akam 226, Pillai does not interpret P??a? as an ally of Ka??i who fled without fighting in the court of the C??a king Titta? Ve?iya?. Rather, it was P??a?, who was in the court of the Ch??a king, the intended adversary of Ka??i. Modern scholars like V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai (1946: 454) unnecessarily add a word ?k??i? meaning ?having joined? to ?P??a?o?u? to come up with the misinterpreted meaning. The verb ?poru? ?to fight? is preceded by the adversary being fought/intended to be fought by the subject of the verb with the case marker ?o?u'. Perhaps N????r was influenced by R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r (1923: 1670), who interpreted P??a? as an ally of Ka??i in his earlier edition. Hart (2015: 232) has followed N?tt?r?s interpretation. George L. Hart, 2015. The Four Hundred Songs of Love. Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Ir?. I?a?kumara?, 1987. P??ar. Ma?iv?cakar Patippakam, Citamparam. R?. Ir?kavaiya?k?r, 1923. E??uttokaiyu? Ne?untokai ?kum Akan????u Mulamum Uraiyum. V?. Ir?jak?p?laiya?k?r Patippu, Mayil?pp?r. Na. Mu. V??ka?ac?mi N????r and R. V??ka??calam P?llai, 1946. E??uttokaiyil O????a Akan????u Ma?imi?ai P?va?am. Tirunelv?li, Tennintiya Caiva Citt??ta Nu?patippuk Ka?akam, Ce??ai. Auvai Turaic?mip Pillai, 1958. E??uttokaiyil O???kiya Ai?ku?un??u Mulamum Vi?akkavuraiyum. Part III. Mullai. A???malaip palkalaik ka?akatt?r?l ve?iyi?appe??atu. Ve. Varatar?ca?, 1973. Tami?pp??ar V??vum Varal??um. P???a? Patippakam, Ce??ai. Eva Wilden, 2018. A Critical Edition and an Annotated Translation of the Akan????u, 3 volumes. ?cole Fran?aise D?Extr?me-Orient and Institut Fran?ais De Pondich?ry, Pondicherry. Regards, Palaniappan On Oct 22, 2012, at 11:13 PM, palaniappa at aol.com wrote: Dear George, I appreciate your comments. As for the fonts, I like to use the diacritic fonts too whenever possible. In my first post, I did use the diacritic fonts. But, when Dr. Tieken replied to my post the diacritic fonts in my earlier post showed up as question marks in my Mac. Since there were not too many participants in the thread, to be safe, I resorted to the transliteration I used. Thanks Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > wrote: Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sun Jan 24 13:08:19 2021 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 13:08:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vigyanvikshu Message-ID: <20210124130819.13144.qmail@f4mail-235-216.rediffmail.com> To All,Can anybody , may kindly , provide me a link or site , which may help me to access Prof.Andrew Nicholson's book on Vigyanvikshu, the author of Samkhya Karika. Regards                Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Sun Jan 24 13:17:13 2021 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 18:47:13 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bombay University Journal Vol- VIII-part IV Message-ID: Dear List members I am searching for the Bombay University Journal Vol- VIII-part IV, (year of publication not available). Is available as a pdf online? please guide best Rupali Mokashi *http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bclough9377 at gmail.com Sun Jan 24 14:00:55 2021 From: bclough9377 at gmail.com (Bradley Clough) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 09:00:55 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vigyanvikshu In-Reply-To: <20210124130819.13144.qmail@f4mail-235-216.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Sir, I'm not aware of Professor Nicholson having a whole book on just Vijnanabhiksu (colleagues, please forgive the absence of diacritics) alone, but the following book by Andrew does deal with that figure substantially, among others: https://www.amazon.com/Unifying-Hinduism-Philosophy-Intellectual-Disciplines/dp/0231149875/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1285954557#reader_0231149875 Dr. Bradley S. Clough On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 8:09 AM alakendu das via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > To All, > Can anybody , may kindly , provide me a link or site , which may help me > to access Prof.Andrew Nicholson's book on Vigyanvikshu, the author of > Samkhya Karika. > Regards > Alakendu Das > > > > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 24 14:22:27 2021 From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 09:22:27 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vigyanvikshu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B624534-457F-4258-9DFA-5D2FC46AFA0E@yahoo.com> Hello! A PDF of the introduction to the book that Dr. Clough has mentioned can be found here: https://www.academia.edu/288764/Unifying_Hinduism_Philosophy_and_Identity_in_Indian_Intellectual_History All the best! Dr. Jeffery D. Long Carl W. Zeigler Professor of Religious Studies Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Ethical, Philosophical, and Theological Lexington Books ?One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life.? (Holy Mother Sarada Devi) ?We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.? (Carl Sagan) > On Jan 24, 2021, at 9:00 AM, Bradley Clough via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > I'm not aware of Professor Nicholson having a whole book on just Vijnanabhiksu (colleagues, please forgive the absence of diacritics) alone, but the following book by Andrew does deal with that figure substantially, among others: > > https://www.amazon.com/Unifying-Hinduism-Philosophy-Intellectual-Disciplines/dp/0231149875/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1285954557#reader_0231149875 > > Dr. Bradley S. Clough > > On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 8:09 AM alakendu das via INDOLOGY > wrote: > To All, > Can anybody , may kindly , provide me a link or site , which may help me to access Prof.Andrew Nicholson's book on Vigyanvikshu, the author of Samkhya Karika. > Regards > Alakendu Das > > > > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Sun Jan 24 21:44:30 2021 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 14:44:30 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era Message-ID: Dear Friends, A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books that cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate account of life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or non-scholarly work is fine.) Many thanks in advance -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History and Classics University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmdelire at ulb.ac.be Sun Jan 24 22:07:55 2021 From: jmdelire at ulb.ac.be (jmdelire) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 21 23:07:55 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04e8f0562bf7306cf112d5b276b7e0e2@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Dear Patricia, Charles Allen or William Dalrymple are names you can look for. Dalrymple's books, while written for the layman, are usually full of very useful footnotes. Dr Jean Michel Delire, Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB (University of Brussels) Le 24.01.2021 22:44, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > Dear Friends, > > A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books > that cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate > account of life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or > non-scholarly work is fine.) > > Many thanks in advance > > -- > > Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org [1] > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://AyurYog.org > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Mon Jan 25 09:20:31 2021 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 09:20:31 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: <04e8f0562bf7306cf112d5b276b7e0e2@imapproxy.vub.ac.be> Message-ID: <5B104114-625F-4479-B58F-0B211B7165C5@btinternet.com> The Rites of the Twice-Born, by Sinclair Stevenson. Mrs Stevenson was a missionary trying to bring Christianity to Hindu women, so her account obviously reflects her prejudices. But she clearly loved the women themselves, and the book tells you a great deal about both sides of the colonial story and the way of life of upper class Hindus at the time. And it?s by and about women! Hooray! Valerie J Roebuck Sent from my iPhone > On 24 Jan 2021, at 22:08, jmdelire via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ?Dear Patricia, > > Charles Allen or William Dalrymple are names you can look for. Dalrymple's books, while written for the layman, are usually full of very useful footnotes. > > Dr Jean Michel Delire, > Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB (University of Brussels) > > > Le 24.01.2021 22:44, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY a ?crit : >> Dear Friends, >> A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books >> that cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate >> account of life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or >> non-scholarly work is fine.) >> Many thanks in advance >> -- >> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD >> Postdoctoral Fellow >> AyurYog.org [1] >> Department of History and Classics >> University of Alberta >> Edmonton, Canada >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://AyurYog.org >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Mon Jan 25 09:44:15 2021 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 10:44:15 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: <5B104114-625F-4479-B58F-0B211B7165C5@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <20210125104415.cdb38a6961b2929fd1693d98@ff.cuni.cz> I would recommend this book: J. Abbott, The Keys of Power: A Study of Indian Ritual and Belief, London: Methuen, 1932. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219400 It is a treasure that I consult quite often. There are several Indian reprints (under the title: Indian ritual and belief: The keys of power), I have this one (from Manohar, it costs only 750 Rs): https://www.manoharbooks.com/BookDetails.asp?Id=2835&isbn=9788173043390 The book will be reprinted this year by Routledge (and will cost ?130!): https://www.routledge.com/The-Keys-of-Power-A-Study-of-Indian-Ritual-and-Belief/Abbott/p/book/9781032005645 Best Lubomir On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 09:20:31 +0000 Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY wrote: > The Rites of the Twice-Born, by Sinclair Stevenson. Mrs Stevenson was a missionary trying to bring Christianity to Hindu women, so her account obviously reflects her prejudices. But she clearly loved the women themselves, and the book tells you a great deal about both sides of the colonial story and the way of life of upper class Hindus at the time. And it?s by and about women! Hooray! > > Valerie J Roebuck > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 24 Jan 2021, at 22:08, jmdelire via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > ?Dear Patricia, > > > > Charles Allen or William Dalrymple are names you can look for. Dalrymple's books, while written for the layman, are usually full of very useful footnotes. > > > > Dr Jean Michel Delire, > > Lecturer on Science and Civilization of India - Sanskrit texts, IHEB (University of Brussels) > > > > > > Le 24.01.2021 22:44, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > >> Dear Friends, > >> A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books > >> that cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate > >> account of life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or > >> non-scholarly work is fine.) > >> Many thanks in advance > >> -- > >> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > >> Postdoctoral Fellow > >> AyurYog.org [1] > >> Department of History and Classics > >> University of Alberta > >> Edmonton, Canada > >> Links: > >> ------ > >> [1] http://AyurYog.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> INDOLOGY mailing list > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > >> or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Mon Jan 25 11:20:19 2021 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 11:20:19 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7A462159-5BAB-4C39-8FFD-CC11F9A70D33@btinternet.com> Thank you very much for this. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK Sent from my iPad > On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ? > Dear all, > > I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. > > https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI > > > -- > Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org > Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Jan 25 11:50:39 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 11:50:39 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <7A462159-5BAB-4C39-8FFD-CC11F9A70D33@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. To the list more generally - There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, but about K. R. Norman's translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his recent translation of the same work https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit usage. I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via INDOLOGY Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM To: Patricia Sauthoff Cc: Indology List ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? Thank you very much for this. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK Sent from my iPad On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY wrote: ? Dear all, I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk Mon Jan 25 12:08:17 2021 From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 12:08:17 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4DF4EE05-288D-4489-AD12-606871163646@bristol.ac.uk> Dear Matthew, The following reviews some of the relevant issues: Pontillo, Tiziana and Chiara Neri, ?The Case of Yogak?ema/yogakkhema in Vedic and Suttapi?aka Sources: In Response to Norman?, Journal of Indian Philosophy, 47 (2019), 527?63. Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin Professor of Buddhist Studies University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Phone: +44 117 928 8169 Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 25 Jan 2021, at 11:50, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. To the list more generally - There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, but about K. R. Norman's translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his recent translation of the same work https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit usage. I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via INDOLOGY > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM To: Patricia Sauthoff > Cc: Indology List >; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? Thank you very much for this. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK Sent from my iPad On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY > wrote: ? Dear all, I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 13:25:08 2021 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 08:25:08 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <4DF4EE05-288D-4489-AD12-606871163646@bristol.ac.uk> Message-ID: Matthew, See also Neri, Chiara & Pontillo, Tiziana. ?On the Boundary between "Yogakkhema" in the "Suttapi?aka" and "Yogak?ema" in the "Upani?ads" and "Bhagavadg?t?.? Cracow Indological Studies, 2019-12-31, Vol.21 (2) Summary The combination of the stems yoga- and khema-/k?ema- occurs in phrases or compounds in both ancient and in middle Indo-Aryan sources but what is intriguing is that such a combination is generally interpreted as coordinating in the former occurrences and as subordinating in the latter ones. In particular, yogakkhema- within the Buddhist Therav?da Canon and its commentarial literature is regularly analysed as a tatpuru?a and often translated as ?freedom from bondage or safety?.We recently presented a part of the Vedic and Pali documentation collected in the context of more broadly shared research on this subject during the 18th Conference of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (Section: ?Buddhism and Its relation to other religions?) held at the University of Toronto on August 20th?25th, 2017, now published as Pontillo and Neri 2019. The case of yogak?ema/yogakkhema in Vedic and Suttapi?aka sources. In response to Norman. In: Journal of Indian Philosophy 47(3): 527?563. Here, we shall take a further step in the above-mentioned comparison by concentrating on the occurrences of the compound yogak?ema/yogakkhema as found in the upani?ads and in the Bhagavadg?t? and in some comparable Suttapi?aka passages with the aim of understanding what might have been the boundary that this word historically crossed in the framework of an assumed dialogue between different traditions. best, Dan > On Jan 25, 2021, at 7:08 AM, Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Matthew, > > The following reviews some of the relevant issues: > > Pontillo, Tiziana and Chiara Neri, ?The Case of Yogak?ema/yogakkhema in Vedic and Suttapi?aka Sources: In Response to Norman?, Journal of Indian Philosophy, 47 (2019), 527?63. > > Best wishes, > > Rupert > -- > Rupert Gethin > Professor of Buddhist Studies > > University of Bristol > Department of Religion and Theology > 3 Woodland Road > Bristol BS8 1TB, UK > > Phone: +44 117 928 8169 > Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk > >> On 25 Jan 2021, at 11:50, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: >> >> Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. >> >> To the list more generally - >> >> There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, but about K. R. Norman's >> translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his recent translation of the same work https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 >> gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit usage. >> >> I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). >> >> best to all, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via INDOLOGY > >> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM >> To: Patricia Sauthoff > >> Cc: Indology List >; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ > >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? >> >> Thank you very much for this. >> >> Valerie J Roebuck >> Manchester, UK >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. >>> >>> https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD >>> Postdoctoral Fellow >>> AyurYog.org >>> Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies >>> University of Alberta >>> Edmonton, Canada >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Mon Jan 25 13:30:15 2021 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 13:30:15 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vigyanvikshu Message-ID: <1611581192.S.92471.autosave.drafts.1611581415.32321@webmail.rediffmail.com> Thank you very much Dr.Clough and Dr.Long.I believe the link , as provided , by you ,shall help me to access my topic of interest.Regards.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com> Sent: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:52:39 GMT+0530 To: Bradley Clough <bclough9377 at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vigyanvikshu Hello! A PDF of the introduction to the book that Dr. Clough has mentioned can be found here: https://www.academia.edu/288764/Unifying_Hinduism_Philosophy_and_Identity_in_Indian_Intellectual_History All the best! Dr. Jeffery D. Long Carl W. Zeigler Professor of Religious Studies Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA   https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong   Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Ethical, Philosophical, and Theological Lexington Books   ?One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life.?  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)   ?We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.? (Carl Sagan) On Jan 24, 2021, at 9:00 AM, Bradley Clough via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: Dear Sir, I'm not aware of Professor Nicholson having a whole book on just Vijnanabhiksu (colleagues, please forgive the absence of diacritics) alone, but the following book by Andrew does deal with that figure substantially, among others: https://www.amazon.com/Unifying-Hinduism-Philosophy-Intellectual-Disciplines/dp/0231149875/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1285954557#reader_0231149875 Dr. Bradley S. Clough On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 8:09 AM alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: To All,Can anybody , may kindly , provide me a link or site , which may help me to access Prof.Andrew Nicholson's book on Vigyanvikshu, the author of Samkhya Karika. Regards                Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 13:48:24 2021 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 14:48:24 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16135642-43d0-db97-8835-8797f51e1498@gmail.com> Dear Matthew, For several excerpts from the Pali Kanon which are compared with Sanskrit sources (on /yogakkhema///yogak?ema/) see also: Shozen Kumoi, The Concept of Yoga in the Nik?yas. Studies in Honour of Heinz Bechert on the Occasion of His 65^th Birthday, Indica et Tibetica, vol. 30, p. 407-420. Best Heiner Am 25.01.2021 um 12:50 schrieb Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY: > Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. > > To the list more generally - > > There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's > fantasies, but about K. R. Norman's > translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders > yogakkhema (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles > Hallisey, in his recent translation of the same work > https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 > > gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the > Sanskrit usage. > > I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's > treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of > the curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, > treated it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) > and "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). > > best to all, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Valerie J Roebuck via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM > *To:* Patricia Sauthoff > *Cc:* Indology List ; +++RISA ACADEMIC > DISCUSSION LIST+++ > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? > Thank you very much for this. > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY >> wrote: >> >> ? >> Dear all, >> >> I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a >> recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. >> >> https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD >> Postdoctoral Fellow >> AyurYog.org >> Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies >> University of Alberta >> Edmonton, Canada >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Mon Jan 25 18:19:23 2021 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 18:19:23 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <16135642-43d0-db97-8835-8797f51e1498@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3352EFB0-4ADB-45DF-BEB5-C26A0D11568D@wlu.edu> Dear all, Outside of Pali contexts, it is normally treated as a dvandva, and indeed k?ema is understood as safe-guarding or securing (parirak?a?am, parip?lanam). Standard commentarial glosses are of the type: alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparirak?a?a? k?ema? (Madhus?dana on BhG 2.45) yogak?emau = alabdhal?bha-labdhaparip?lane (Anarghar?ghavapa?cik? 2.40) yogo.alabdhal?bha? ? k?ema? labdhaparirak?a?a? (??varapratyabhij??viv?tivimar?in?, p. 240) Kau?ilya 6.2.1 provides a definition: KA?06.2.01/ ?amavy?y?mau yogak?emayor yoni? // KA?06.2.02/ karm?rambh???? yog?r?dhano vy?y?ma? // KA?06.2.03/ karmaphalopabhog?n?? k?em?r?dhana? ?ama? // KA?06.2.04/ ?amavy?y?mayor yoni? ???gu?yam // KA?06.2.05/ k?aya? sth?na? v?ddhir ity uday?s tasya // 1. Rest and exertion form the basis of enterprise and security.* 2. Exertion consists of the enterprise that one furnishes to activities that are being undertaken. 3. Rest consists of the security that one furnishes to the enjoyment of the fruits of one?s activities. 4. The basis of rest and exertion is the sixfold strategy (> 7.1.2). 5. Its outcomes are decline, stability, and prosperity. (tr. Olivelle 2013) Olivelle?s note thereon: ?Rest . . . security : The translation of the compound yogak?ema poses several problems. As a single concept, it often refers to security or security measures. Thus, at MDh 9.219, yogak?ema is one of the items that cannot be divided during the partitioning of an inheritance, and there it clearly refers to security measures, such as fences for fields and houses. In the Vedic usage, yoga referred to the trek, when the people were on the move in search of wealth, while k?ema referred to a time of encampment and rest in a defensive position. I think this dual meaning of the compound is prominent in the A?. In this passage, rest (?ama) is connected to k?ema, and exertion (vy?y?ma) to yoga. I have regularly translated the compound as a dual, unless the context dictates otherwise (e.g., 1.13.7, 8; 3.11.3).? And 1.4.3 suggests that the compound provides the basis (the first half) of da??an?ti: ?nv?k?ik?tray?v?rtt?n?? yogak?emas?dhano da??a?, tasya n?tir da??an?ti?, alabdhal?bh?rth? labdhaparirak?a?? rak?itavivardhan? v?ddhasya t?rthe pratip?dan? ca // 3. What provides enterprise and security (6.2.1 n.) to critical inquiry, the Triple [i.e., Veda], and economics is punishment (da??a); its administration (n?ti) is government (da??a-n?ti). Government seeks to acquire what has not been acquired, to safeguard what has been acquired, to augment what has been safeguarded, and to bestow what has been augmented on worthy recipients It is thus the king?s duty is to provide an environment in which those complementary goals can be pursued: Hence yogak?ema?abdena yogak?emak?ri?o r?jamantripurohit?daya ucyante iti kecit? (Mit. ad Y?j?Dh 2.119) But the deity may also be appealed to for success: Y?j?avalkyaDh 1.100ab (99ab in Olivelle?s edition): upey?d ??vara? caiva yogak?em?rthasiddhaye | ?He may, furthermore, approach the lord for success in the aims of acquiring and safeguarding.? Mit?k?ar? thereon: alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparip?lana? k?ema, tadartham upey?d up?s?ta | N?r?ya?a on the N?larudra Up. 1.3, speaking of Rudra?s activities: anena k?emak?ritvam uktam | alabdhal?bho yogas ? so ?pi te tav?p?rval?bhakaro ?py etv ?gacchatu yogak?emakaro ?bhi?ekajale sa?nihito bhavatv ity arthah. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://ssrn.com/author=930949 https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: Rolf Heinrich Koch Date: Monday, January 25, 2021 at 8:49 AM To: INDOLOGY Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? Dear Matthew, For several excerpts from the Pali Kanon which are compared with Sanskrit sources (on yogakkhema/yogak?ema) see also: Shozen Kumoi, The Concept of Yoga in the Nik?yas. Studies in Honour of Heinz Bechert on the Occasion of His 65th Birthday, Indica et Tibetica, vol. 30, p. 407-420. Best Heiner Am 25.01.2021 um 12:50 schrieb Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY: Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. To the list more generally - There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, but about K. R. Norman's translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his recent translation of the same work https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit usage. I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via INDOLOGY Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM To: Patricia Sauthoff Cc: Indology List ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? Thank you very much for this. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK Sent from my iPad On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear all, I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.stuhrmann at t-online.de Mon Jan 25 18:28:03 2021 From: r.stuhrmann at t-online.de (rainer stuhrmann) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 19:28:03 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <226ec098-a805-1855-90b8-c4d26f3dea93@t-online.de> Rudyard Kipling: Plain Tales from the Hills -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 04:50:23 2021 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 05:50:23 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <3352EFB0-4ADB-45DF-BEB5-C26A0D11568D@wlu.edu> Message-ID: Dear All, In continuation of Tim's detailed and valuable discussion and his reference to Patrick Olivelle's note on yoga-k?ema, it may be useful to explain in addition (1) that in this compound yoga, whether from a Vedic or Buddhist point of view, has nothing to do with buddhist or Patanjali's meditation or with difficult seating positions, but it refers, at least originally, to the yoking of bulls to the chariots (probably bulls rather than what we call oxen because castration was rare in ancient India -- as Basham observed, I believe correctly, somewhere in The Wonder That Was India) -- next, from the yoking of the bulls it refers, indeed, to the trek of a family, group or clan; (2) that k?ema as derived from ?k?i 'to reside (safely and undisturbed)' had similarly a very concrete meaning referring to the concrete conditions of a temporary settlement; (3) that yoga-k?ema is thus one of several words/expressions in the language, whether Vedic or Buddhist, that points to a transition from a semi-sedentary mode of life to a more, or to a completely, sedentary mode of life, together with words such as graama 'caravan / village', mahaanasa 'great chariot / kitchen' (the word occurs both in Asoka's inscriptions and in the Paippalaada samhitaa), perhaps also g.rhapati/gehapati 'ritual chief or family chief / farmer'. See further: ?Ecology of Ritual Innovation in Ancient India: Textual and Contextual Evidence.? In: Self, Sacrifice, and Cosmos: Vedic Thought, Ritual, and Philosophy. Essays in Honor of Professor Ganesh Umakant Thite?s Contribution to Vedic Studies, ed. by Lauren M. Bausch, pp. 182-210 (The section ?References? of this article is integrated in id., ?Bibliography,? pp. 223-238.) Delhi: Primus Books, 2019. where, inter alia, I refer to and critically comment on (only the first part of) Gadgil, Madhav and Ramachandra Guha 1992 This Fissured Land : An Ecological History of India. Delhi : Oxford University Press. (Reprint as Oxford Perennial with different pagination, 2013). Best, Jan -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 19:20, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear all, > > > > Outside of Pali contexts, it is normally treated as a dvandva, and indeed > *k?ema* is understood as safe-guarding or securing (*parirak?a?am*, * > parip?lanam*). Standard commentarial glosses are of the type: > > *alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparirak?a?a? k?ema?* (Madhus?dana on *BhG* > 2.45) > > *yogak?emau = alabdhal?bha-labdhaparip?lane* (*Anarghar?ghavapa?cik?* > 2.40) > > *yogo.alabdhal?bha? ? k?ema? labdhaparirak?a?a?* ( > *??varapratyabhij??viv?tivimar?in?*, p. 240) > > > > Kau?ilya 6.2.1 provides a definition: > > *KA?06.2.01/ ?amavy?y?mau yogak?emayor yoni? //* > > *KA?06.2.02/ karm?rambh???? yog?r?dhano vy?y?ma? //* > > *KA?06.2.03/ karmaphalopabhog?n?? k?em?r?dhana? ?ama? //* > > *KA?06.2.04/ ?amavy?y?mayor yoni? ???gu?yam //* > > *KA?06.2.05/ k?aya? sth?na? v?ddhir ity uday?s tasya //* > > > > 1. Rest and exertion form the basis of enterprise and security.* > > 2. Exertion consists of the enterprise that one furnishes to activities > that are being undertaken. > > 3. Rest consists of the security that one furnishes to the enjoyment of > the fruits of one?s activities. > > 4. The basis of rest and exertion is the sixfold strategy (> 7.1.2). > > 5. Its outcomes are decline, stability, and prosperity. (tr. Olivelle > 2013) > > > > Olivelle?s note thereon: > > ?*Rest . . . security* : The translation of the compound *yogak?ema* > poses several problems. As a single concept, it often refers to security or > security measures. Thus, at *MDh* 9.219, *yogak?ema* is one of the items > that cannot be divided during the partitioning of an inheritance, and there > it clearly refers to security measures, such as fences for fields and > houses. In the Vedic usage, *yoga* referred to the trek, when the people > were on the move in search of wealth, while *k?ema* referred to a time of > encampment and rest in a defensive position. I think this dual meaning of > the compound is prominent in the *A?*. In this passage, rest (*?ama*) is > connected to *k?ema*, and exertion (*vy?y?ma*) to *yoga*. I have > regularly translated the compound as a dual, unless the context dictates > otherwise (e.g., 1.13.7, 8; 3.11.3).? > > > > And 1.4.3 suggests that the compound provides the basis (the first half) > of *da??an?ti*: > > *?nv?k?ik?tray?v?rtt?n?? yogak?emas?dhano da??a?, tasya n?tir da??an?ti?, > alabdhal?bh?rth? labdhaparirak?a?? rak?itavivardhan? v?ddhasya t?rthe > pratip?dan? ca //* > > > > 3. What provides *enterprise and security* (6.2.1 n.) to critical > inquiry, the Triple [i.e., Veda], and economics is punishment (*da??a*); > its administration (*n?ti*) is government (*da??a-n?ti*). Government > seeks *to acquire what has not been acquired, to safeguard what has been > acquired*, to augment what has been safeguarded, and to bestow what has > been augmented on worthy recipients > > > > It is thus the king?s duty is to provide an environment in which those > complementary goals can be pursued: > > Hence *yogak?ema?abdena yogak?emak?ri?o r?jamantripurohit?daya ucyante > iti kecit*? (Mit. ad Y?j?Dh 2.119) > > > > But the deity may also be appealed to for success: > > > > *Y?j?avalkyaDh* 1.100ab (99ab in Olivelle?s edition): > > *upey?d ??vara? caiva yogak?em?rthasiddhaye |* > > ?He may, furthermore, approach the lord for success in the aims of > acquiring and safeguarding.? > > > > *Mit?k?ar?* thereon: *alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparip?lana? k?ema, > tadartham upey?d up?s?ta |* > > > > N?r?ya?a on the *N?larudra Up.* 1.3, speaking of Rudra?s activities: > > *anena k?emak?ritvam uktam | alabdhal?bho yogas ? so ?pi te > tav?p?rval?bhakaro ?py etv ?gacchatu yogak?emakaro ?bhi?ekajale sa?nihito > bhavatv ity arthah.* > > > > Best, > > Tim > > > > > > Timothy Lubin > Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > 204 Tucker Hall > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 > National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 > > https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ > > > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > > > https://ssrn.com/author=930949 > > https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of > INDOLOGY > *Reply-To: *Rolf Heinrich Koch > *Date: *Monday, January 25, 2021 at 8:49 AM > *To: *INDOLOGY > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? > > > > Dear Matthew, > > > > For several excerpts from the Pali Kanon which are compared with Sanskrit > sources (on *yogakkhema/yogak?ema*) see also: > > Shozen Kumoi, The Concept of Yoga in the Nik?yas. Studies in Honour of > Heinz Bechert on the Occasion of His 65th Birthday, Indica et Tibetica, > vol. 30, p. 407-420. > > > > Best > > Heiner > > > > > > Am 25.01.2021 um 12:50 schrieb Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY: > > Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. > > > > To the list more generally - > > > > There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, > but about K. R. Norman's > > translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema > (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his > recent translation of the same work > https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 > > > gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit > usage. > > > > I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's > treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the > curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated > it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and > "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). > > > > best to all, > > Matthew > > > > > *Matthew Kapstein *Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > *From:* INDOLOGY > on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via > INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM > *To:* Patricia Sauthoff > *Cc:* Indology List > ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ > > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? > > > > Thank you very much for this. > > > > Valerie J Roebuck > > Manchester, UK > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY > wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent > publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. > > > > > https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org > > Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > -- > > Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch > > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Tue Jan 26 05:09:12 2021 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 21 22:09:12 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: <42199cd0-78f5-f68a-0f6e-5428ebdbf4b0@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: Many thanks for your wonderful suggestions. I have been reading A Corner of a Foreign Field and though I know almost nothing of cricket, the social history is fascinating. Cheers! Please stay safe and healthy. Patricia On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:09 PM a.murugaiyan wrote: > Dear colleague, > Here is another reference: > Charles E. Gover, The folk-songs of Southern India, (first edition 1871), > 1959, The South India Saiva Siddhanta Works Publishing Society, Madras. > Best regards. > A. Murugaiyan > > Le 24/01/2021 ? 22:44, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > Dear Friends, > > A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books that > cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate account of > life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or non-scholarly > work is fine.) > > Many thanks in advance > > -- > Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD (she/her-they/them) Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History and Classics University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 05:27:43 2021 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 10:57:43 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book recommendations? Folklore, British colonial era In-Reply-To: Message-ID: https://archive.org/details/thevillagegodsof00whituoft The village gods of South Indiaby Whitehead, Henry, 1853-1947 The archive.org page has the following: " This book by Henry Whitehead is quite interesting; it details the rituals practiced in villages in South India. However, it should be born in mind that the author was a Christian missionary, whose main objective was to convert people. Hence, the parts of the text where the author makes judgements and comparisons about the rituals, or what they mean, should not be taken too literally. Overall, good information about rituals in South idea; ignore the judgements, comparisons and theories. " On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:40 AM Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Many thanks for your wonderful suggestions. > > I have been reading A Corner of a Foreign Field and though I know almost > nothing of cricket, the social history is fascinating. > > Cheers! Please stay safe and healthy. > > Patricia > > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:09 PM a.murugaiyan > wrote: > >> Dear colleague, >> Here is another reference: >> Charles E. Gover, The folk-songs of Southern India, (first edition 1871), >> 1959, The South India Saiva Siddhanta Works Publishing Society, Madras. >> Best regards. >> A. Murugaiyan >> >> Le 24/01/2021 ? 22:44, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY a ?crit : >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> A former student is looking for some book recommendations on books that >> cover Indian Folklore, magic and mythical tales, and an accurate account of >> life during the era of British colonialism. (Scholarly or non-scholarly >> work is fine.) >> >> Many thanks in advance >> >> -- >> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD >> Postdoctoral Fellow >> AyurYog.org >> Department of History and Classics >> University of Alberta >> Edmonton, Canada >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> > > -- > Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD > (she/her-they/them) > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Director, Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru. Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Jan 26 14:14:42 2021 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 14:14:42 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= Message-ID: Dear friends, Is there a system of proper terms used for the penstrokes of devan?gar? or other Indic scripts? In particular, is there a standard term for the horizontal overbar/overline/headline used in written and printed devan?gar?? We sometimes see da??a not only for the punctuation mark, but for the right-hand vertical bar in kha, ga and other letters. And some ligatures do have distinct names that are well known, e.g. repha. Modern Hindi work on typography does sometimes have ?irorekh? for the headline, but I suspect that this is a recent calque from English and not a traditional scribal term. However, I am uncertain about it and wish to verify the traditional usage. any light will be appreciated, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Jan 26 14:53:51 2021 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 06:53:51 -0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, I have not seen such names for the penstrokes in Sanskrit, but you will need to look for them in the vernacular languages. For example, Marathi has such names. When you add ? to ? to write ??, you are adding a ????. When you are adding ? to ? to write ??, you are adding a ???????. When you are adding an ????????, the dot is called a ????. I am attaching a chart of these from the 1857 Grammar of Marathi by Dadoba Pandurang: [image: image.png] Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 6:15 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear friends, > > Is there a system of proper terms used for the penstrokes of devan?gar? > or other Indic scripts? > > In particular, is there a standard term for the horizontal > overbar/overline/headline used in written and printed devan?gar?? We > sometimes see da??a not only for the punctuation mark, but for the > right-hand vertical bar in kha, ga and other letters. And some ligatures do > have distinct names that are well known, e.g. repha. > > Modern Hindi work on typography does sometimes have ?irorekh? > for the headline, but I suspect that this is a recent calque from English > and not a traditional scribal term. > However, I am uncertain about it and wish to verify the traditional usage. > > any light will be appreciated, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.plukker at ziggo.nl Tue Jan 26 15:43:50 2021 From: d.plukker at ziggo.nl (Dick Plukker) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 16:43:50 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8d5ed720-66a0-1331-4e49-5811dd325c45@ziggo.nl> Dear Matthew, More information on the names of Devanagari penstrokes in: http://www.idc.iitb.ac.in/resources/dt-jan-2009/Anatomy%20of%20Devanagari.pdf Best, Dick Plukker Op 26-1-2021 om 15:14 schreef Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY: > Dear friends, > > Is there a system of proper terms used for the penstrokes of devan?gar? > or other Indic scripts? > > In particular, is there a standard term for the horizontal > overbar/overline/headline used in written and printed devan?gar?? We > sometimes see da??a? not only for the punctuation mark, but for the > right-hand vertical bar in kha, ga and other letters. And some > ligatures do have distinct names that are well known, e.g. repha. > > Modern Hindi work on typography does sometimes have ?irorekh? > for the headline, but I suspect that this is a recent calque from > English and not a traditional scribal term. > However, I am uncertain about it and wish to verify the traditional > usage. > > any light will be appreciated, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 26 17:17:05 2021 From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 17:17:05 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, I believe that the short answer is that there is still no in-depth study of the terminology you mention which is based on sources that precedes the introduction of print. I am working precisely on a study of Sanskrit terminology in early print and if you want, I can tell you more off list. (Incidentally, I would consider reph? as a term rather defining the sound and only by extension used to define the written sign for ra.) Best wishes, Camillo ________________________________ Dr Camillo A. Formigatti Information Analyst ? FAMOUS Project Bodleian Libraries The Weston Library Broad Street, Oxford OX1 3BG Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208 www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk GROW YOUR MIND in Oxford University?s Gardens, Libraries and Museums www.mindgrowing.org ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of indology-request at list.indology.info Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:00 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 96, Issue 28 Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to indology at list.indology.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to indology-request at list.indology.info You can reach the person managing the list at indology-owner at list.indology.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 26 17:26:10 2021 From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 17:26:10 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, I obviously meant repha (typical scribal mistake, I was thinking of rekh?...) ________________________________ Dr Camillo A. Formigatti Information Analyst ? FAMOUS Project Bodleian Libraries The Weston Library Broad Street, Oxford OX1 3BG Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208 www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk GROW YOUR MIND in Oxford University?s Gardens, Libraries and Museums www.mindgrowing.org ________________________________ From: Camillo Formigatti Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:17 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Cc: Matthew Holford ; Madhav Deshpande ; d.plukker at ziggo.nl Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] names of devan?gar? penstrokes Dear Matthew, I believe that the short answer is that there is still no in-depth study of the terminology you mention which is based on sources that precedes the introduction of print. I am working precisely on a study of Sanskrit terminology in early print and if you want, I can tell you more off list. (Incidentally, I would consider reph? as a term rather defining the sound and only by extension used to define the written sign for ra.) Best wishes, Camillo ________________________________ Dr Camillo A. Formigatti Information Analyst ? FAMOUS Project Bodleian Libraries The Weston Library Broad Street, Oxford OX1 3BG Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208 www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk GROW YOUR MIND in Oxford University?s Gardens, Libraries and Museums www.mindgrowing.org ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of indology-request at list.indology.info Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:00 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 96, Issue 28 Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to indology at list.indology.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to indology-request at list.indology.info You can reach the person managing the list at indology-owner at list.indology.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rblinderman at g.harvard.edu Tue Jan 26 21:28:42 2021 From: rblinderman at g.harvard.edu (Blinderman, Radha) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 22:28:42 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PDF_request:_Durgasi=E1=B9=81ha's_=E1=B9=AD=C4=ABk=C4=81?= Message-ID: Dear All, Does any of you have an edition of the K?tantra with Durgasi?ha's ??k?? Unfortunately the 1874 Eggling edition that I have includes only the v?tti. I would be very thankful if you could kindly share this text. Bhavad?y?, R?dhik? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rblinderman at g.harvard.edu Tue Jan 26 21:57:43 2021 From: rblinderman at g.harvard.edu (rblinderman at g.harvard.edu) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 21 22:57:43 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_PDF_request:_Durgasi=E1=B9=81ha's_=E1=B9=AD=C4=ABk=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3393AF12-C165-4A89-BF0B-39C46B34661F@g.harvard.edu> Dear All, I am deeply thankful to Eric Gurevitch for sharing a fantastic edition of the K?tantra, with the t?k? and many other commentaries. Thank you, Eric, for coming to the rescue so quickly! Gratefully, Radhika > On Jan 26, 2021, at 10:28 PM, Blinderman, Radha wrote: > > ? > Dear All, > > Does any of you have an edition of the K?tantra with Durgasi?ha's ??k?? Unfortunately the 1874 Eggling edition that I have includes only the v?tti. I would be very thankful if you could kindly share this text. > > Bhavad?y?, > R?dhik? From bihanisarkar at googlemail.com Wed Jan 27 20:55:16 2021 From: bihanisarkar at googlemail.com (Bihani Sarkar) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 21 20:55:16 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Publication: Classical Sanskrit Tragedy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Apologies for this additional message. My publisher has just now sent me a flyer and order form with a 35% discount code (attached). This brings the price of the book down to 55.25 Great British Pounds. I apologize for the expense, but unfortunately I was not in control of the price. Bloomsbury-IB Tauris were considerate enough, though, to listen to my plea to have a more affordable version of the book for the Indian market, which is where I would like *Classical Sanskrit Tragedy* to be most widely available: I have been told by them that a specially priced Indian paperback will be coming out later. If you order online at www.bloomsbury.com please enter the code *GLR BN3* on the first page at the checkout for the 35% discount to apply. Thank you. Bihani On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 12:38 PM Bihani Sarkar wrote: > Dear All, > > I am pleased to announce the publication of my next book *Classical > Sanskrit Tragedy: The Concept of Suffering and Pathos in Medieval India* > (Bloomsbury-IB Tauris): > https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/classical-sanskrit-tragedy-9781788311113/ > > I express my heartfelt gratitude to the anonymous peer-reviewer for > her/his pertinent and knowledgeable suggestions in improving the book. I am > also grateful to Professor Sheldon Pollock and Dr. Csaba Dezso for kindly > endorsing the book. Gratitude is expressed in the book's Acknowledgement to > many invaluable *sah?daya*s and* hitai??*s, who poured assistance like > the *megha* in the *Meghad?ta* pours nourishing rain. > > Details regarding content as follows: > > *Book description* > > It is often assumed that classical Sanskrit poetry and drama (*k?vya*) > lack a concern with the tragic. However, as made clear in this book, this > is far from the case. This re-evaluation of 'tragedy' in classical Sanskrit > literature draws on a wide range of Sanskrit dramas, poems and treatises ? > many passages among which are translated for the first time into English ? > to provide a fuller history and re-conceptualization of the tragic in > Indian literature from the second to the fourth centuries. > > > > Looking at K?lid?sa, the most celebrated writer of Sanskrit poetry and > drama (*k?vya*), this book argues that constructions of absence and grief > are central to K?lid?sa?s compositions and that these ?tragic middles? are > much more sophisticated than previously understood. For K?lid?sa, tragic > middles are modes of thinking, in which he confronts theological and > philosophical issues. Through a close literary analysis of the tragic > middle in five of his works, the *Abhij??na?akuntal?*, the *Raghuva??a,* > the *Kum?rasambhava,* the *Vikramorva??ya* and the *Meghad?ta,* the book > demonstrates the importance of tragedy for classical Indian poetry and > drama in the early centuries of the common era. These depictions from the > Indian literary sphere, by their particular function and interest in the > phenomenology of grief, challenge and reshape in a wholly new way our > received understanding of tragedy. > > > *Chapters and sub-headings:* > > *Preamble: A note on the Indian 'Medieval'* > > > *Introduction Part I. The Tragic Middle* > > The Legacy of Looking > > The Cry of the Krau?ca > > The Politics of Looking > > George Eliot and Endings > > William James and the 'Second Birth' > > Northrop Frye and unfinished comedy > > K?lid?sa and 'the second birth' > > Pathos in Indian Aesthetics > > Looking Elsewhere > > > *Introduction Part II. Doubt, Obstacle, Deliberation, Death, Disaster: the > Trial in Indian Aesthetics* > > Introducing the Trial > > An overview of the theory of narrative structure > > The *avasth?*s > > The *prak?ti*s > > The *sandhi*s > > Abhinavagupta and controversies over the *avamar?a*/*vimar?a* > > Character, survival and a universe of hazard > > The Trial in the works of K?lid?sa > > A pr?cis of plots > > > *Chapter 1. K?lid?sa and his Inheritance of Grief* > > Why K?lid?sa? > > Bharata and K?lid?sa > > The *Vi?vantaraj?taka *of ?rya??ra > > The *Saundarananda* of A?vagho?a > > The *R?m?ya?a* > > Fate in the *R?m?ya?a* > > The curse in the *R?m?ya?a* > > Fate (*vidhi*), cure (*??pa*), retribution (*karma*), God (??vara): > tragic agency in K?lid?sa > > > *Chapter 2. The Map of Melancholy: Lamentation and the Philosophical Pause* > > The joyous* k?rya*s of the Raghuva??a and the Kum?rasambhava > > Lamentation (*vil?pa*) and the 'tragic middle' in the* Raghuva??a* and > the *Kum?rasambhava* > > Purposes of the tragic middle > > Kinship between Aja's lament (*Ajavil?pa*) and Rati's lament ( > *Rativil?pa)* > > The map of melancholy > > > *Chapter 3. On Losing and Finding Love: Conflict, Obstacle and Drama* > > Divided heroes in the *?akuntal?* and the *Vikramorva??ya* > > The Tragic Middle in the *?akuntal?* > > The knowledge of the heart > > Not knowing correctly and doubt in the *?akuntal?* > > Awareness and the ring > > Perceiving reality > > A 'madman' sings and dances: the tragic middle in the *Vikramorva??ya* > > > *Chapter 4. The Altered Heart: Anguish, Entreaty and Lyric* > > The *Meghad?ta* as a lament > > The *Meghad?ta *as the tragic middle made independent > > 'Internally liquid': cloud and* yak?a* as one > > Love messages and 'insentient' messengers in earlier poetry > > The tragic middle in the *Meghad?ta* > > > *Conclusion* > > > Thank you. > > > With best wishes, > > > Bihani Sarkar BA (English, First Class Honours), MPhil, D.Phil (Sanskrit), > (Oxon.) > Lecturer (hourly paid) in Religious Studies: Hinduism and Buddhism, > University of Winchester (January-May 2021). > Associate Faculty Member Oriental Institute, University of Oxford > (2019-2022). > Research Member of Common Room, Wolfson College, University of Oxford > (2020-2022). > > *Heroic Sh?ktism: The Cult of Durg? in Ancient Indian Kingship*: > > https://global.oup.com/academic/product/heroic-shktism-9780197266106?cc=gb&lang=en& > > Alok?: Online Lessons in Ancient Indian Texts and Traditions: > https://www.bihanisarkar.com/ > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ClassicalSanskritTragedyflyer.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 259045 bytes Desc: not available URL: From franco at uni-leipzig.de Wed Jan 27 22:00:11 2021 From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 21 23:00:11 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Matty_Weingast's_Ther=C4=ABg=C4=81th=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20210127230011.Horde.xHO5bE9GTXgzzL9Fh63XsOF@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Dear Jan and all, On this term see also Schmithausen, Alayavij. n. 184. Schmithausen points out that the term is used as synonym of artha, hita and nirvANa. See also the helpful references therein (AN III, 403, Norman 1969: 28). Best wishes, Eli Zitat von "Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY" : > Dear All, > In continuation of Tim's detailed and valuable discussion and his reference > to Patrick Olivelle's note on yoga-k?ema, it may be useful to explain in > addition (1) that in this compound yoga, whether from a Vedic or Buddhist > point of view, has nothing to do with buddhist or Patanjali's meditation or > with difficult seating positions, but it refers, at least originally, to > the yoking of bulls to the chariots (probably bulls rather than what we > call oxen because castration was rare in ancient India -- as Basham > observed, I believe correctly, somewhere in The Wonder That Was India) -- > next, from the yoking of the bulls it refers, indeed, to the trek of a > family, group or clan; (2) that k?ema as derived from ?k?i 'to reside > (safely and undisturbed)' had similarly a very concrete meaning referring > to the concrete conditions of a temporary settlement; (3) that yoga-k?ema > is thus one of several words/expressions in the language, whether Vedic or > Buddhist, that points to a transition from a semi-sedentary mode of life to > a more, or to a completely, sedentary mode of life, together with words > such as graama 'caravan / village', mahaanasa 'great chariot / kitchen' > (the word occurs both in Asoka's inscriptions and in the Paippalaada > samhitaa), perhaps also g.rhapati/gehapati 'ritual chief or family chief / > farmer'. > See further: > ?Ecology of Ritual Innovation in Ancient India: Textual and Contextual > Evidence.? In: Self, Sacrifice, and Cosmos: Vedic Thought, Ritual, and > Philosophy. Essays in Honor of Professor Ganesh Umakant Thite?s > Contribution to Vedic Studies, ed. by Lauren M. Bausch, pp. 182-210 (The > section ?References? of this article is integrated in id., ?Bibliography,? > pp. 223-238.) Delhi: Primus Books, 2019. > where, inter alia, I refer to and critically comment on (only the first > part of) > Gadgil, Madhav and Ramachandra Guha > 1992 This Fissured Land : An Ecological History of India. Delhi : Oxford > University Press. (Reprint as Oxford Perennial with different pagination, > 2013). > Best, Jan > -- > > *Jan E.M. Houben* > > Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology > > *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* > > ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) > > *Sciences historiques et philologiques * > > *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * > *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben > * > > On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 19:20, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> Outside of Pali contexts, it is normally treated as a dvandva, and indeed >> *k?ema* is understood as safe-guarding or securing (*parirak?a?am*, * >> parip?lanam*). Standard commentarial glosses are of the type: >> >> *alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparirak?a?a? k?ema?* (Madhus?dana on *BhG* >> 2.45) >> >> *yogak?emau = alabdhal?bha-labdhaparip?lane* (*Anarghar?ghavapa?cik?* >> 2.40) >> >> *yogo.alabdhal?bha? ? k?ema? labdhaparirak?a?a?* ( >> *??varapratyabhij??viv?tivimar?in?*, p. 240) >> >> >> >> Kau?ilya 6.2.1 provides a definition: >> >> *KA?06.2.01/ ?amavy?y?mau yogak?emayor yoni? //* >> >> *KA?06.2.02/ karm?rambh???? yog?r?dhano vy?y?ma? //* >> >> *KA?06.2.03/ karmaphalopabhog?n?? k?em?r?dhana? ?ama? //* >> >> *KA?06.2.04/ ?amavy?y?mayor yoni? ???gu?yam //* >> >> *KA?06.2.05/ k?aya? sth?na? v?ddhir ity uday?s tasya //* >> >> >> >> 1. Rest and exertion form the basis of enterprise and security.* >> >> 2. Exertion consists of the enterprise that one furnishes to activities >> that are being undertaken. >> >> 3. Rest consists of the security that one furnishes to the enjoyment of >> the fruits of one?s activities. >> >> 4. The basis of rest and exertion is the sixfold strategy (> 7.1.2). >> >> 5. Its outcomes are decline, stability, and prosperity. (tr. Olivelle >> 2013) >> >> >> >> Olivelle?s note thereon: >> >> ?*Rest . . . security* : The translation of the compound *yogak?ema* >> poses several problems. As a single concept, it often refers to security or >> security measures. Thus, at *MDh* 9.219, *yogak?ema* is one of the items >> that cannot be divided during the partitioning of an inheritance, and there >> it clearly refers to security measures, such as fences for fields and >> houses. In the Vedic usage, *yoga* referred to the trek, when the people >> were on the move in search of wealth, while *k?ema* referred to a time of >> encampment and rest in a defensive position. I think this dual meaning of >> the compound is prominent in the *A?*. In this passage, rest (*?ama*) is >> connected to *k?ema*, and exertion (*vy?y?ma*) to *yoga*. I have >> regularly translated the compound as a dual, unless the context dictates >> otherwise (e.g., 1.13.7, 8; 3.11.3).? >> >> >> >> And 1.4.3 suggests that the compound provides the basis (the first half) >> of *da??an?ti*: >> >> *?nv?k?ik?tray?v?rtt?n?? yogak?emas?dhano da??a?, tasya n?tir da??an?ti?, >> alabdhal?bh?rth? labdhaparirak?a?? rak?itavivardhan? v?ddhasya t?rthe >> pratip?dan? ca //* >> >> >> >> 3. What provides *enterprise and security* (6.2.1 n.) to critical >> inquiry, the Triple [i.e., Veda], and economics is punishment (*da??a*); >> its administration (*n?ti*) is government (*da??a-n?ti*). Government >> seeks *to acquire what has not been acquired, to safeguard what has been >> acquired*, to augment what has been safeguarded, and to bestow what has >> been augmented on worthy recipients >> >> >> >> It is thus the king?s duty is to provide an environment in which those >> complementary goals can be pursued: >> >> Hence *yogak?ema?abdena yogak?emak?ri?o r?jamantripurohit?daya ucyante >> iti kecit*? (Mit. ad Y?j?Dh 2.119) >> >> >> >> But the deity may also be appealed to for success: >> >> >> >> *Y?j?avalkyaDh* 1.100ab (99ab in Olivelle?s edition): >> >> *upey?d ??vara? caiva yogak?em?rthasiddhaye |* >> >> ?He may, furthermore, approach the lord for success in the aims of >> acquiring and safeguarding.? >> >> >> >> *Mit?k?ar?* thereon: *alabdhal?bho yoga?, labdhaparip?lana? k?ema, >> tadartham upey?d up?s?ta |* >> >> >> >> N?r?ya?a on the *N?larudra Up.* 1.3, speaking of Rudra?s activities: >> >> *anena k?emak?ritvam uktam | alabdhal?bho yogas ? so ?pi te >> tav?p?rval?bhakaro ?py etv ?gacchatu yogak?emakaro ?bhi?ekajale sa?nihito >> bhavatv ity arthah.* >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> Timothy Lubin >> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law >> 204 Tucker Hall >> Washington and Lee University >> Lexington, Virginia 24450 >> >> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 >> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 >> >> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ >> >> >> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin >> >> >> https://ssrn.com/author=930949 >> >> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of >> INDOLOGY >> *Reply-To: *Rolf Heinrich Koch >> *Date: *Monday, January 25, 2021 at 8:49 AM >> *To: *INDOLOGY >> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? >> >> >> >> Dear Matthew, >> >> >> >> For several excerpts from the Pali Kanon which are compared with Sanskrit >> sources (on *yogakkhema/yogak?ema*) see also: >> >> Shozen Kumoi, The Concept of Yoga in the Nik?yas. Studies in Honour of >> Heinz Bechert on the Occasion of His 65th Birthday, Indica et Tibetica, >> vol. 30, p. 407-420. >> >> >> >> Best >> >> Heiner >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 25.01.2021 um 12:50 schrieb Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY: >> >> Yes, thank you, Patricia, - it has been widely. >> >> >> >> To the list more generally - >> >> >> >> There is one question it raises for me, not about Weingast's fantasies, >> but about K. R. Norman's >> >> translation cited herein. In the first verse quoted, he renders yogakkhema >> (= Skt. yogak?ema) as "rest-from-exertion". Charles Hallisey, in his >> recent translation of the same work >> https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674427730 >> >> >> gives "safety," which seems more plausible to me in light of the Sanskrit >> usage. >> >> >> >> I would be grateful for any insights you might have into Norman's >> treatment of the term and, more generally, into the semantic range of the >> curious expression yogak?ema. Tibetan lexicographers, by the way, treated >> it as having the meanings "accomplished" (grub-pa = siddha) and >> "comfort/ease/happiness" (bde-ba = sukha). >> >> >> >> best to all, >> >> Matthew >> >> >> >> >> *Matthew Kapstein *Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* INDOLOGY >> on behalf of Valerie J Roebuck via >> INDOLOGY >> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2021 5:20 AM >> *To:* Patricia Sauthoff >> *Cc:* Indology List >> ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ >> >> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Matty Weingast's Ther?g?th? >> >> >> >> Thank you very much for this. >> >> >> >> Valerie J Roebuck >> >> Manchester, UK >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On 24 Jan 2021, at 00:31, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY >> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> I thought you might find this article on the myriad issues with a recent >> publication of the Ther?g?th? of interest. >> >> >> >> >> https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR3A-mrXnNT-1f5ZYLr4OWYe9_i1nZyGko1RdEkeR2Zxao9Bh8Gf8FALeLI >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD >> >> Postdoctoral Fellow >> AyurYog.org >> >> Department of History, Classics, and Religious Studies >> University of Alberta >> Edmonton, Canada >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> -- >> >> Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch >> >> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> -- Prof. Dr. Eli Franco Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Schillerstr. 6 04109 Leipzig Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office) Fax +49 341 9737 148 From drdj at austin.utexas.edu Wed Jan 27 22:20:11 2021 From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 21 22:20:11 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Online Summer Language Programs for Malayalam, Telugu, and Kannada at UT-Austin Message-ID: <36EC4598-D1CD-47E8-8D12-F084D9EF08C6@austin.utexas.edu> Dear Colleagues, Please forward the following announcement to anyone who may be interested in summer language training. Participants from anywhere in the world may register for the courses, potentially inconvenient time differences notwithstanding. Please contact the South Asia Institute directly for further information. Best, Don Davis Dept. of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin [cid:image001.jpg at 01D6F4C8.48FFD290]In cooperation with the South Asia Summer Language Institute at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the South Asia Institute at UT-Austin plans to offer online courses in the South Indian languages Malayalam, Kannada, and Telugu during summer 2021 at the beginner and intermediate levels. All courses will be offered through UT Extension, but administered through SAI and UT?s Department of Asian Studies. The courses will be available subject to sufficient enrollments and hiring. These intensive language summer courses meet FLAS Fellowship guidelines. To learn more and apply, please visit our website. The application deadline is May 8. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 06:12:13 2021 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 21 11:42:13 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpJ/gpYDgpJXgpL7gpLjgpLDgpY3gpLXgpLjgpY3gpLUgb2Yg4KS14KSo4KWN4KSm4KWN4KSv4KSY4KSf4KWA4KSvIOCkuOCksOCljeCkteCkvuCkqOCkqOCljeCkpg==?= Message-ID: Namaste Scholars, It is my privilege to present to you all the following work. ??k?sarvasva of Vandyagha??ya Sarv?nanda https://github.com/sanskrit-kosha/kosha/blob/master/amaratikasarvasva_sarvananda/orig/amaratikasarvasva.txt Credits - The proof reading of this work has been done painstakingly by Mr. Nagabhushana Rao (www.andhrabharati.com). -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Surat www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chakrabortydeepro at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 00:27:07 2021 From: chakrabortydeepro at gmail.com (Deepro Chakraborty) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 21 17:27:07 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request (VOHD Band 2 Teil 19) Message-ID: I'm looking for the *19th part* of the VOHD (Verzeichnisch der orientalischen Handscriften in Deutschland, Volume 2 (Indian manuscripts): Gerhard Ehlers: Die ??rad?-Handschriften der Sammlung Janert der Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin - Preussischer Kulturbesitz. 2016. (VOHD Band 2, *19*) Does anyone have a pdf of it? Deepro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Sun Jan 31 00:50:54 2021 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 21 17:50:54 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request Dash Fundamentals of Ayurvedic Medicine Message-ID: Friends, Would anyone happen to have a scan of Vaidya Bhagwan Dash's Fundamentals of Ayurvedic Medicine? I need pages 142-156 from the chapter "Cannabis in Ancient Medical Texts". The text is on Hathi Trust but I cannot print the relevant pages. Thank you. -- Patricia Sauthoff Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History and Classics University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Sun Jan 31 01:06:34 2021 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 21 18:06:34 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request Dash Fundamentals of Ayurvedic Medicine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As always, this list is amazing. I have what I need. Thank you! On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:50 PM Patricia Sauthoff wrote: > Friends, > > Would anyone happen to have a scan of Vaidya Bhagwan Dash's Fundamentals > of Ayurvedic Medicine? I need pages 142-156 from the chapter "Cannabis in > Ancient Medical Texts". > > The text is on Hathi Trust but I cannot print the relevant pages. Thank > you. > > -- > Patricia Sauthoff > Postdoctoral Fellow > AyurYog.org > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta > Edmonton, Canada > -- Dr. Patricia Sauthoff, PhD (she/her-they/them) Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History and Classics University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 04:56:59 2021 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 21 10:26:59 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request (VOHD Band 2 Teil 19) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Deepro, As far as I am aware this particular volume is not available in PDF yet. All other volumes seem to be available. You might have to take help of someone who has access to the physical volume/s. That is what I did when I wanted to make a reference to a particular Ms from this volume. Sorry if this is not helpful. Best wishes. Mrinal ------ *Mrinal Kaul * (he, him, his) Assistant Professor of Indian Philosophy Department of Humanities and Social Sciences (HSS) Indian Institute of Technology-Bombay (IIT-B) Powai, Mumbai 400076, INDIA Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567 https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/ email: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 at 05:58, Deepro Chakraborty via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > I'm looking for the *19th part* of the VOHD (Verzeichnisch der > orientalischen Handscriften in Deutschland, Volume 2 (Indian manuscripts): > > Gerhard Ehlers: Die ??rad?-Handschriften der Sammlung Janert der > Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin - Preussischer Kulturbesitz. 2016. (VOHD Band 2, > *19*) > > Does anyone have a pdf of it? > > Deepro > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Sun Jan 31 12:07:09 2021 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 21 12:07:09 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_names_of_devan=C4=81gar=C4=AB_penstrokes?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found this thread very interesting. I am sure there is material here for a fairly large-scale comparative research (and a nice conference), because data such as those offered by Madhav from Marathi are certainly far from common knowledge among Indologists, and the fact that character-component-naming is a pronounced feature of the way Indic writing has been received and transmitted in Southeast Asia is probably unknown to most members of this list, while it may be of interest to some of them. Giving some examples just for island Southeast Asia: * see all the names for vowel markers in the final column of the final table at * see the names for various markers mentioned at Speaking of Batak script, if any insightful colleague is able to help me grasp what might be systemic rationale behind the (to me extremely surprising) manner in which vir?ma (Batak: pangolat) interacts with vowel markers in transcribing closed syllables such as tep, top, tip, illustrated in the section 'Diacritic reordering for closed syllables' on that Wikipedia page, I shall be extremely grateful. I have been pondering it for a few years now and haven't gotten anywhere. Arlo Griffiths https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/griffiths-arlo [https://f-origin.hypotheses.org/wp-content/cleo-commons/images/favicon_150x150.png] GRIFFITHS Arlo ? DHARMA project ERC n? 809994 The DHARMA project ERC n ? 809994 has been launched on May 1st 2019. It is a 6-year project (2019-2025) financed on an ERC Synergy Grant 2018 through the European Union?s Research and Innovation Programme Horizon 2020. dharma.hypotheses.org ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:17 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Cc: Matthew Holford Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] names of devan?gar? penstrokes Dear Matthew, I believe that the short answer is that there is still no in-depth study of the terminology you mention which is based on sources that precedes the introduction of print. I am working precisely on a study of Sanskrit terminology in early print and if you want, I can tell you more off list. (Incidentally, I would consider reph? as a term rather defining the sound and only by extension used to define the written sign for ra.) Best wishes, Camillo ________________________________ Dr Camillo A. Formigatti Information Analyst ? FAMOUS Project Bodleian Libraries The Weston Library Broad Street, Oxford OX1 3BG Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208 www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk GROW YOUR MIND in Oxford University?s Gardens, Libraries and Museums www.mindgrowing.org ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of indology-request at list.indology.info Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:00 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 96, Issue 28 Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to indology at list.indology.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to indology-request at list.indology.info You can reach the person managing the list at indology-owner at list.indology.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: