[INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood

Sun Sep 6 08:14:10 UTC 2020

> No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically
or in terms of maturation

The facts of the present speak against such an apodictically made
biological assertion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#cite_note-Teen_pregnancies_higher_in_India_than_even_UK,_US-115

[“In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage sometimes results in
adolescent pregnancy, particularly in rural regions where the rate is much
higher than it is in urbanized areas. Latest data suggests that teen
pregnancy in India is high with 62 pregnant teens out of every 1,000
women.“]

I sense a classic strategy of appropriation, which unconsciously subjects
everything to the yardstick of one's own, namely Western, culturally shaped
view and personal experience made in such environments. Especially when it
comes to historical issues, one can only warn against this. Views grounded
in our everyday experience in the West of the 21st century must not be
projected uncritically onto “all cultures and epochs”. Studying ancient
India means studying the distant past of a very distant culture, which had
developed entirely independent of whatever ideas, values and lifestyle the
west might entertain today.

The topic of fertility in particular was – understandably – particularly
central in the older epochs of India, and the best sources for such
historical questions are not the normative legal texts, but the numerous
old Indian Gṛhyasūtras, which tradition counts among the Vedic auxiliary
literature. Together with the rich and extensive commentaries from the
Middle Ages, studied without bias, the broadly spread evidence can lead to
insights that may not necessarily meet modern expectations and wishful
thinking, but at least allow us to get closer to a reality that lies far
behind.

Kind regards,

WS

Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 23:53 Uhr schrieb Amy Langenberg <
langenap at eckerd.edu>:

> Dear colleagues,
> If I may, although it is important that we have a deep and thorough
> understanding of textual claims, simply compiling textual authorizations
> for how young girls can or ought to be "married" doesn't really answer the
> question of how female adulthood is understood and constituted in any real
> way. I would argue that the category of adulthood has not really applied to
> women in many historical and social contexts -- or only in a way that is so
> gendered as to be a different concept altogether. In particular,
> reproductive viability is often constitutive of female "adulthood" in a way
> that is not true of male "adulthood". And obviously the measure of
> reproductive viability mentioned in legal texts is highly androcentric to
> the point of fantasy. No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real
> way -- physically or in terms of maturation, no matter what epoch we are
> speaking of.
>
> best,
> apl
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their
>> husbands until after menarche
>>
>> As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources
>> as I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation
>> of marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second'
>> marriage (*punar-vivāha*) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent
>> girl. Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her
>> first menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her
>> husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the *garbhādhāna
>> saṃskāra *(the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of
>> making the optimum use of her fertility.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> WS
>>
>>
>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <
>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.
>>>
>>> Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is
>>> driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here
>>> is relevant, which quoted Kauṭilya’s Arthaśāstra 3.3.1 (his translation):
>>>
>>> "A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavahāra), as also a man 16 years old."
>>>
>>>
>>> To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able
>>> to enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of
>>> legal adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal
>>> contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For
>>> example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them
>>> resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by
>>> caste/class/etc.)
>>>
>>> Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation
>>> of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped
>>> over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live
>>> with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here
>>> in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or
>>> judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been
>>> married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it
>>> most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If
>>> married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're
>>> not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of
>>> their guardian... which is their spouse.)
>>>
>>> All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read
>>> a long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting
>>> information on all of this in *Indian Puberty Rites *(p. 37-38)
>>> *:*
>>>
>>> “In the Dharmasūtra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be
>>> given in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her
>>> third menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Parāśara says:
>>>
>>> ‘A girl of eight is called Gaurī; but one who is nine years old is a
>>> Rohinī; one who is ten years old is a Kanyā; beyond this one is Rajasvalā
>>> (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not
>>> give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pitṛs
>>> (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The
>>> parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl
>>> becoming Rajasvalā.’ [citation: Parāśara Smṛti, VII.6-9]
>>>
>>>
>>> “The same is also stated in other Smṛtis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66;
>>> Bṛhad-yama, III.19-22, Aṅgiras, 126-28] The Vāyu Purāṇa [citation:
>>> LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaurī by remarking that her son
>>> purifies 21 ancestors on his father’s side and six male ancestors of his
>>> mother’s side. In a later work it is stated that a Brāhmaṇa should marry a
>>> Brāhmaṇa girl who is a Nagnikā or Gaurī, the former being a girl over eight
>>> years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and
>>> twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikhānasa, VI.12] As the
>>> marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturthīkarma
>>> naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained
>>> maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as
>>> Garbhādhāna.”
>>>
>>> Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of
>>> human history in most cultures been very different for women than for
>>> men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal
>>> implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as
>>> well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this—not to hijack my own
>>> thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children,
>>> children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and
>>> public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the
>>> similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that
>>> may be another post!
>>>
>>> Thank you all so far!
>>> -s
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com | she/her
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and
>>>> whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual
>>>> status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.
>>>>
>>>> These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this
>>>> needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Listening in with interest!
>>>> Amy Langenberg
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Another recommendation:
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
>>>>> Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
>>>>> Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY
>>>>> <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One small addition: On kaumārī cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
>>>>>> Zeitschrift für vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
>>>>>> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Martin Straube
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > course of your research.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Kind regards,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > WS
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beiträge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
>>>>>> Berlin
>>>>>> > 1922: 645–649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
>>>>>> > pubescence).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpasūtras*. Delhi
>>>>>> 21983: 212
>>>>>> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term
>>>>>> *nagnikā*
>>>>>> > („naked“) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *nagnikām* [=] *aprāptastrībhāvām* *ayauvanarasām* *upayaccheta*
>>>>>> (“let him
>>>>>> > approach a *nagnikā* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
>>>>>> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
>>>>>> menstrual
>>>>>> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.”).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *nagnikā*, defined as the “best” (*śreṣṭhā*) in the above passage of
>>>>>> > *Mānavagṛhyasūtra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
>>>>>> > absence of pubic hair (*ajātalomnī*) as also discussed, e.g., by
>>>>>> > Bhaṭṭanārāyaṇa on *Gobhilagṛhyasūtra* 2.5.7. According to the
>>>>>> latter’s
>>>>>> > testimony there were Ācāryas who stipulated intercourse with
>>>>>> prepubescent
>>>>>> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired
>>>>>> so:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *yady ajātalomny evātīva puruṣābhogārthinī syāt, tathā sati, *[…]
>>>>>> *maithunaṃ
>>>>>> > kartavyam ity eke ācāryā manyante*.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 3) The Kashmirian *Kāṭhakagṛhyasūtra* determines the age of
>>>>>> marriage of
>>>>>> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*daśavārṣikaṃ**
>>>>>> brahmacaryaṃ
>>>>>> > kumārīṇāṃ dvādaśavārṣikaṃ vā *KGS 19.2), on which Devapāla comments:
>>>>>> > *varṣadaśakād
>>>>>> > ūrdhvaṃ **brahmacarye kumārī **na** sthāpayitavyā pitrā **।*
>>>>>> *agatyā **vā
>>>>>> > dvādaśa **varṣāṇi nātikramaṇīyāni* ॥ (Devapālabhāṣya *ad* 19.2. ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 4) *Manusmṛti*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *triṃśadvarṣo vahet kanyāṃ hṛdyāṃ dvādaśavārṣikīm | tryaṣṭavarṣo
>>>>>> 'ṣṭavarṣāṃ
>>>>>> > vā dharme sīdati satvaraḥ* || MDhŚ 9.94 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > “A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
>>>>>> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the
>>>>>> Law
>>>>>> > would suffer.” (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for
>>>>>> girls aged
>>>>>> > 8 (*a**ṣṭ**avar**ṣ**ā*): To start with Pārvatī, Śiva’s wife, it is
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > technical term for which is *gaurī* (significantly also used as an
>>>>>> epithet
>>>>>> > for her):
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 5) Jayadratha’s *Haracaritacint**ā**ma**ṇ**i*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *dev**ī** himavata**ḥ** putr**ī** k**ā**l**ī**
>>>>>> n**ī**lotpalacchavi**ḥ** | *
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *a**ṣṭ**avar**ṣ**ā** tapoyukt**ā** bhart**ā**ra**ṃ** pr**ā**pa
>>>>>> dh**ū**rja*
>>>>>> > *ṭ**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *sā krīḍantī pitṛgehe śambhunā saha pārvatī* |
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *dṛṣṭvā dṛṣṭvā vapuḥ śyāmaṃ nāhaṃ gaurīty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 6) *gaurī* = *aṣṭavarṣā* = prepubescent:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Parāśarasmṛti* 7.4):
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *aṣṭavarṣā** bhaved gaurī navavarṣā ca rohiṇī |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *daśavarṣā bhavet kanyā  ata ūrdhvaṃ rajasvalā* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 7) *Aṣṭavarṣā* marriage in the *Revākhaṇḍa* of the *Vāyupurāṇa*:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *puṇyāham adya saṃjātam ahaṃ tvaddarśanotsukaḥ |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *kanyā** madīyā rājendra hy aṣṭavarṣā vyajāyata* || RKV 142.18 ||
>>>>>> > […]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *caturbhujo mama sutas triṣu lokeṣu viśrutaḥ | tasyeyaṃ dīyatāṃ
>>>>>> kanyā
>>>>>> > śiśupālasya bhīṣmaka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 8) *Rāmāyaṇa*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Sītā, too, was married before the age of puberty as a “*kaumārī*”:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *svayaṃ tu bhāryāṃ kaumārīṃ ciram adhyuṣitāṃ satīm |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *śailūṣa iva māṃ rāma parebhyo dātum icchasi* || Rām 2.27.8 (CE)||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The Gītā Press translates from an emic insight point of view: „who
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> > married to you before puberty”.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The commentaries *Rāmāyaṇaśiromaṇi* und *Bhūṣaṇa* on this passage
>>>>>> (Rām
>>>>>> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaumārī* as “*kumārāvasthāyāṃ eva vivāhitā*”
>>>>>> (“married
>>>>>> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden”).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *kumārī* = 1. “A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old“ (Apte)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> > *prauḍhā* (cp., eg., *Bhāgavatapurāṇa *4.25.21 (*a-prauḍhā* – “not
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>> > fully developed”), or *ūḍhā* (cp. *nava-ūḍhā* – “having just
>>>>>> attained
>>>>>> > puberty”, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via
>>>>>> INDOLOGY <
>>>>>> > indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Hello Sundari,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
>>>>>> commentary
>>>>>> >> Tattvabodhinī on Bhaṭṭoji's Siddhānta-Kaumudī, on rule 3168 of SK
>>>>>> [p. 531,
>>>>>> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhinī, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>>>>>> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:
>>>>>> These are
>>>>>> >> comments on the word *gaurī:*
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> "गौरी त्वसञ्जातरज:कन्याशङ्करभार्ययो:" ... इति मेदिनी
>>>>>> ।..."अष्टवर्षा तु या
>>>>>> >> दत्ता श्रुतशीलसमन्विते । सा गौरी तत्सुतो यस्तु स गौर: परिकीर्तित:
>>>>>> ।।" इति
>>>>>> >> ब्रह्माण्डवचनं श्राद्धकाण्डे हेमाद्रिणोद्धृतम् । एतेन "गौर:
>>>>>> शुच्याचार:"
>>>>>> >> इत्यादि भाष्यं व्याख्यातम् ।
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe
>>>>>> Brahmāṇḍa-Purāṇa to
>>>>>> >> argue that the word *gauraḥ *used by Patañjali in defining a
>>>>>> Brāhmaṇa
>>>>>> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharmaśāstric
>>>>>> significance
>>>>>> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a
>>>>>> learned and
>>>>>> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great
>>>>>> Nāgeśabhaṭṭa in
>>>>>> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my
>>>>>> publications, and I
>>>>>> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same
>>>>>> argument.
>>>>>> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the
>>>>>> gradual
>>>>>> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My
>>>>>> grandmother was
>>>>>> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the
>>>>>> age of
>>>>>> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
>>>>>> married
>>>>>> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>>>>> >>     With best wishes,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>>> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>>> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>>> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>>>>>> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kauṭilya’s Arthaśāstra
>>>>>> 3.3.1:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>>>>> >>> (vyavahāra), as also
>>>>>> >>> a man 16 years old.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Best,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Patrick
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Hi all,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>>>>> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions
>>>>>> into defacto
>>>>>> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior
>>>>>> to the 19th
>>>>>> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the
>>>>>> age of
>>>>>> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the
>>>>>> history
>>>>>> >>> following that.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers
>>>>>> of that
>>>>>> >>> transition to adulthood.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Many thanks!
>>>>>> >>> -sundari
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>>>>> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>>>>> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>>>>> >>> she/her
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>>>> managing
>>>>>> >>> committee)
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>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why
>>>>>> this <<
>>>>>> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.
>>>>>>   <<
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> >> committee)
>>>>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or
>>>>>> >> unsubscribe)
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Martin Straube
>>>>>> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
>>>>>> Pali Text Society
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Philipps-Universität Marburg
>>>>>> Indologie und Tibetologie
>>>>>> Deutschhausstrasse 12
>>>>>> 35032 Marburg
>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>>>> committee)
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>>>>>>
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