From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Sep  1 08:31:48 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 20 10:31:48 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: The Sanskrit Library offers courses
In-Reply-To: <ba0c17f6cb0744d5920a5f413123a08e_CAPb71FKpCm2Z+ozaqYHJYnKUkZftqZX9YNCGsG-h-MODUh4i4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5619518C-1491-49A1-97D4-00B59475D92F@uclouvain.be>


> De: Peter Scharf <scharf at sanskritlibrary.org>
> Objet: The Sanskrit Library offers courses
> Date: 1 septembre 2020 ? 00:23:48 UTC+2
> 
> 
> Dear Sanskrit Library patron,
> 	The Sanskrit Library would like to announce that it is beginning to offer courses in Sanskrit and Sanskrit literature on-line.  We will be offering courses of two types: continuing education courses for casual learning consisting of ten one-hour lessons once a week for ten weeks, and university equivalent courses which expect student homework consisting of a few hours per week for fifteen weeks.  I will begin teaching a first-year Sanskrit course on 11 September, and Assistant Professor Tanuja Ajotikar will begin teaching an introduction to the Paninian tradition as a casual learning course on 12 September.  We plan to offer a dozen courses over the next year which are described in detail on the courses pages of the Sanskrit Library website.  Please take a look at our offerings and share the news and the link below with anyone and everyone you think might be interested.
> 
>  https://www.sanskritlibrary.org/courses.html <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sanskritlibrary.org%2Fcourses.html&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C28edb83d81c9478f2e9008d84dfc89a0%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637345094319910047&sdata=FVZSSW36gwcjZkoPD3PHOp8QebW0KMQqf0r%2B48tcMLg%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> 	Yours,
> 	Peter
> 
> -- 
> *****************************************
> Peter M. Scharf, President
> The Sanskrit Library
> sanskritlibrary.org <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fec2-52-26-194-35.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com%2Fx%2Fd%3Fc%3D8599759%26l%3D4b74b5f8-c027-4b69-9a5a-51754cff38f3%26r%3De164edf6-90ec-4857-9f12-376e22a47573&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C28edb83d81c9478f2e9008d84dfc89a0%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637345094319910047&sdata=oa0y8jWPYojVNHjCE2AJbJVoKcxikGK4i64Ge4QzCjM%3D&reserved=0>
> http://www.sanskritlibrary.org <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sanskritlibrary.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C28edb83d81c9478f2e9008d84dfc89a0%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637345094319920046&sdata=6VbtzLfoO4Us2VaHlkjOijttUVrIHJvXGvkHIYgxKNQ%3D&reserved=0>
> *****************************************
> 
> How this email was sent <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fec2-52-26-194-35.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com%2Fx%2Fd%3Fc%3D8599759%26l%3Dd8775775-8bfb-4985-bd0b-41744904a84a%26r%3De164edf6-90ec-4857-9f12-376e22a47573&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C28edb83d81c9478f2e9008d84dfc89a0%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637345094319920046&sdata=qFCTwvcqk5bEmohPfRhyT3FbncceGy9qGhrM51NwIZc%3D&reserved=0>
???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 08:49:07 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 20 10:49:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Richard Pischel's Kleine Schriften [Publication Announcement]
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nXPxBP530tToH-+2eb2iMkMS3gPR_TM+pk+brHcN2i-Kg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

it is my pleasure to draw your attention to a new publication in the series
"Kleine Schriften" edited by the Helmuth-von-Glasenapp-Foundation (
https://www.glasenapp-stiftung.de/):

Nalini, Balbir; Pinault, Georges-Jean (eds.):
Richard Pischel, Kleine Schriften. 2 vols.
Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz Verlag 2020. pp. XCII, 1269.
(Ver?ffentlichungen der Glasenapp-Stiftung; 48).
ISBN: 978-3-447-11445-5
EUR 198.00

For more details, see:
https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/Richard_Pischel._Kleine_Schriften/title_6590.ahtml

Kindly regarding,
Walter Slaje


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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Wed Sep  2 00:50:27 2020
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 00:50:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 'Teaching South Asian Languages in 2020'
Message-ID: <ME2P282MB0065E89008D2B7BD7DC23A5EAE2F0@ME2P282MB0065.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Colleagues,

We would be delighted if you could join us for this free online event:

'The many tumultuous and globally consequential events of 2020 have encouraged educators to reconsider resources, methods, and practices in their foreign language classrooms. While many online and global discussions on these topics are broadly applicable to classrooms teaching any language, this group endeavours to highlight those topics which are of special interest to those involved in teaching the classical and modern languages of South Asia in Australia and globally.'

Thursday, 17 Sep 2020, 7:00AM Eastern Australian time
Wednesday 16 Sep 2020, 5:00PM New York time
Wednesday 16 Sep 2020, 10:00PM London time
Thursday, 17 Sep 2020, 2:30AM New Delhi time

Details and registration here:

'Teaching South Asian Languages in 2020'<https://globallanguagefest.eventbritestudio.com/117941539319>

Yours,

McComas
[cid:9a859e04-c1fb-46e2-8b1e-3064093d617e]
McComas Taylor
Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University
WSC Website<http://www.wsc2021.com.au>| McC Website<https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/>
Tel: +61 2 6125 3179


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 02:43:20 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 20 20:43:20 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Random Weekend Scrapbook Request: WSC 10, 1997, in Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAA9_Lu2eGaty4CcFSjRfVFcGTznp4MgVVv8QUqgLwvfGDsX_fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcfXQ=AhQPWD4GSx7nkY2isk5KUL6nz=gTQNibyppXwpA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, John, I do remember the interview, now that you mention it.  I was
hustled over to a journalist with zero notice :-)

I don't have any record of any of that, I'm afraid.  However, the
Taralabalu Kendra might have something in their files.  Shivamurti Swamiji
<https://www.google.com/search?q=shivamurthy+swamiji>, who hosted the WSC,
is still the head of that place and he is available by email.

Best,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 at 16:43, Johnrobert Gardner <
johnrobert.gardner at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings -
>
> Working on an archival project related to origins of computer/internet use
> with indology.  WSC 10 (Dominik, please see below) at Teralabalu Kendra was
> a sort of presentation to society for the computer scholarship world.
>
> The press took lots of pictures, there was an opening invocation ceremony
> (see image of program attached) from what I remember I think it was the
> 10am Inaugural at the Vidhana Soudha?  It was not in the main Kendra
> auditorium.
>
> An India paper had a front page with photo of the event (that one or
> another), it was an english language paper - liek India Herald Tribune, or
> such.  Does anyone have a scrap book copy of that photo/front page?  Cell
> picture, whatever is fine.
>
> Dominik - do you remember at that conference there was a TV interview they
> did with you and I in the main auditorium of Teralabalu Kendra? Do you have
> any info you can share with me offline, of course?
>
> Thanks very much in advance ... and I hope all are staying safe and
> healthy ...
>
> jr
>
> John Robert Gardner, Ph.D., NREMTP, I/C, IAEMD
> Clinical Coordinator
> Beauport Ambulance Service; Gloucester, MA
>
> "Love's the only engine of survival ... " - L. Cohen
>
> Views and opinions expressed or implied in this email are independent of
> National EMT Registry, Beauport Ambulance Service, and/or their clients and
> partners.
>
>> n change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 04:06:36 2020
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 13:06:36 +0900
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Brama_:_abhy=C4=81sa?=
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrCtBy_2R+pf71fsUzbxq77uMO6LYd65tj1gptzSJ4Fi2w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

Beyond the ideas of dramaturgy, grammar, poetry, Ayurveda, military
practice, etc. pertaining to the meanings of ?rama and abhy?sa, I'm looking
for some insight into how they might be similar or different within the
specific context of the Mallapur??a's list of 16 ?ramas, which includes the
term abhy?sa. Typically, it seems to replace ?rama.

For instance, here are 2 examples of "?ramas" from the list:
sth?pita-?rama and ?v?saprera?ik?-abhy?sa.

Are ?rama and abhy?sa interchangeable?

Here is the list:

Sandhesara 1948: 37

ra?ga ?rama
sta?bha ?rama
abhrama?ik? ?rama
 ?v?saprera?ik? abhy?sa
sth?pita ?rama
 ?h?poha ?rama
gocintaka
 laghugo?itaka
 pramad? ?rama
?mardak? ?rama
sth?danaka
 ku??akar?a?ak? abhy?sa
 anyak?tkar? ?rama
 jala ?rama
par?n?roha?a
bhojanordhvabhrama?ik?

The following verse sort of helps explain that it is from practice
(abhy?sata?) of the 16 ?ramas of mallavidy? how one can become victorious
in multiple worlds.

*?ramoya?* mallavidy?y?? kathita? ?o?a??tmaka?
yasya *c?bhy?sato* loke trailokyavijay? bhavet || 10.1 ||

But, I'm still left scratching my chin, wondering if I'm overcooking it.
Looking at the list of *?ramas*, particularly at their groupings-- at a
*?loka* and theme/exercise level-- one wonders why various *?rama*-s are
grouped accordingly. Is it for the meter, thematically, arbitrarily, or
something else? It is not the ordinal sequence because they are each ranked
according to be ?re??ha, etc and also intensity, alpa, ardha, p?r?a, ati.

Or, is there possibly a high order of ?rama that groups the lower order
together? There is a pattern, or so it seems, to the verses outlining the
16 exercises. I'm wondering if I'm reading too much into this. Here is a
sort of logical formula I propose to help understand how I see these groups.
[NOTE: Ex. = exercise / Pr. = practice]


Ex.1-*?rama*   +     Ex. 2-*?rama*   ->    Pr. 1-*abhy?sa*  =  *?rama*
Group.

*ra?ga?ramas stambha?ram*astath? *bhrama?ik??rama?*
?v?saprera?ik?bhy?sas tath?ha? (ya?) sth?pita?rama?

[image: Screen Shot 2020-09-02 at 12.00.57.png]
Therefore, the Sth?pita ?rama group includes: grappling, pole climbing, and
walking and focuses on cardio/endurance.



I'm really not sure about this but got to thinking about it and need some
feedback.
Thanks.





All the best,

????? ???????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
(OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian
National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
 Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)







   -


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Sep  2 16:36:09 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 09:36:09 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdELAD46uCJ+bmsx6g3ZXUKOiosBQb+Dn1HCT67yJsoKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara
Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Sep  2 19:48:11 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 12:48:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Open Access to some of my publications
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc3jg1hRRTfi=kmFV4EGPXzUw1JKC6kFObGxfeBpBa8qQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am happy to announce Open Access to some of my publications.

OPEN ACCESS LINKS FOR THREE PUBLICATIONS,

thanks to an initiative by the University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor,
Michigan


1) Aryan and Non-Aryan in India

Madhav M. Deshpande and Peter E. Hook, Editors


OPEN ACCESS, download link:

https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/z603r0512?locale=en


2) Paninian Studies: Professor S. D. Joshi Felicitation Volume

Madhav Deshpande and Saroja Bhate, Editors


OPEN ACCESS, download link:

https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/nv9354860?locale=en


3) Critical Studies in Indian Grammarians I: The Theory of Homogeneity
(S?var?ya)

Madhav M. Deshpande


OPEN ACCESS, download link:

https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/nc580p650?locale=en


With best regards,


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 01:16:11 2020
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 06:46:11 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdELAD46uCJ+bmsx6g3ZXUKOiosBQb+Dn1HCT67yJsoKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_7eB2tUwFLZ4L4cZRz_JvR6mNrxYPN-7u8RGJbyeytQSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Prof Deshpande,

This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the
authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact
Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the
'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point.
So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture.
There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book
of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya
dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question
mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in
the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.

Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
*??ntabrahmav?din*s, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins have
never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a
study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying
this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy
is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching
Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I
can finish it sooner than later.

Best wishes.

Mrinal
------
*Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
email: mrinal.kaul@ <mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org


On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara
> Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Sep  3 01:39:23 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 18:39:23 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAJz4T_7eB2tUwFLZ4L4cZRz_JvR6mNrxYPN-7u8RGJbyeytQSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzexQv6Tv8VojzE4_dCZ1ZcHwSy3=UgehFd5QTs1e2tHSg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.  This question came up because we
have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the
?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is
leading the discussion is mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri
?aivism.  However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with
his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias
Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own elder
brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.  So it appears that
a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha
tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti
traditions.  I am myself just at the beginning stages of sorting all this
out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.  With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Prof Deshpande,
>
> This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the
> authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact
> Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the
> 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point.
> So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture.
> There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book
> of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya
> dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question
> mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in
> the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.
>
> Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
> *??ntabrahmav?din*s, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins
> have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a
> study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying
> this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy
> is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching
> Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I
> can finish it sooner than later.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Mrinal
> ------
> *Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
> Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
> Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
> Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
> Karnataka, INDIA
> Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
> https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
> email: mrinal.kaul@ <mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara
>> Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From lauren.bausch at drbu.edu  Thu Sep  3 01:51:20 2020
From: lauren.bausch at drbu.edu (Lauren Bausch)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 20 18:51:20 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_request_for_articles_on_parisa=E1=B9=83khy=C4=81na?=
Message-ID: <CANz3S9sJxPtvCc3jRFo7wyitiVsi1Qy09gR0rDAZMbi1BC5GyA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I would appreciate it if someone can share a scan of the following
articles. I am unable to access these journals in the library due to the
pandemic.

K. Kunjunni Raja, ?*Parisa**?**khy?na *versus *Prasa**?**khy?na *in
?a?kara?s Philosophy.? *Adyar Library Bulletin *54 (1990): 191-193.

Vidyasankar Sundaresan, ?On *Prasa**?**khy?na *and *Parisa**?**khy?na:
*Meditation
in Advaita Ved?nta and Pre-?a?karan Ved?nta.? *Adyar Library Bulletin *62
(1998): 51-89.
Best wishes,
Lauren

Lauren Bausch
Assistant Professor
Dharma Realm Buddhist University

"Concepts are really monsters that are reborn from their fragments."
--Deleuze and Guattari, *What is Philosophy, *p. 140.


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Sep  3 07:53:48 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 07:53:48 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzexQv6Tv8VojzE4_dCZ1ZcHwSy3=UgehFd5QTs1e2tHSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB439669E30F558EB5A2922468A12C0@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear friends,

Your discussion calls to mind a somewhat broader question: what do we know of the reception of ?a?karaved?nta beyond that tradition itself, particularly during the 9th-11th centuries? The absence of engagement, positive or negative, by others seems puzzling, no?

I will be most interested if you know of any work on this.

Thanks in advance,
Matthew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 3:39:23 AM
To: Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>; Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.  This question came up because we have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is leading the discussion is mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri ?aivism.  However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own elder brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.  So it appears that a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti traditions.  I am myself just at the beginning stages of sorting all this out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.  With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com<mailto:mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Prof Deshpande,

This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point. So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture. There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.

Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to ??ntabrahmav?dins, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I can finish it sooner than later.

Best wishes.

Mrinal
------
Mrinal Kaul, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
email: mrinal.kaul@<mailto:mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org<http://stx.oxon.org>


On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Thu Sep  3 08:03:38 2020
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 10:03:38 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzexQv6Tv8VojzE4_dCZ1ZcHwSy3=UgehFd5QTs1e2tHSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200903100338.11f6e98c84c9f5505ce78c4d@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Madhav,

for a detailed refutation of the Advaitaved?nta position in the ?aivasiddh?nta text, see Paramok?anir?sak?rik?, verses 2b (p?rvapak?a) and 49?52 (pp. 231?236 and 423?441 in Alex Watson's translation).

In the introduction (pp. 23?27), Alex discusses the question of what kind of Advaitaved?nta it is, and develops Alexis Sanderson's argument that while Sadyojyoti? is arguing against pari??mav?da, the commentator R?maka??ha already knows m?y?v?da of Mandanami?ra and ?a?kara. However, Alex demonstrates that R?maka??ha seems to refute some third type of Advaitaved?nta here.

Best
Lubomir



On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 18:39:23 -0700
Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.  This question came up because we
> have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the
> ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is
> leading the discussion is mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri
> ?aivism.  However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with
> his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias
> Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own elder
> brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.  So it appears that
> a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha
> tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti
> traditions.  I am myself just at the beginning stages of sorting all this
> out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.  With best wishes,
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Prof Deshpande,
> >
> > This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the
> > authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact
> > Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the
> > 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point.
> > So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture.
> > There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book
> > of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya
> > dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question
> > mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in
> > the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.
> >
> > Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
> > *??ntabrahmav?din*s, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins
> > have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a
> > study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying
> > this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy
> > is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching
> > Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I
> > can finish it sooner than later.
> >
> > Best wishes.
> >
> > Mrinal
> > ------
> > *Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
> > Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
> > Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
> > Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
> > Karnataka, INDIA
> > Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
> > https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
> > email: mrinal.kaul@ <mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> > indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara
> >> Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.
> >>
> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>
> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> >> unsubscribe)
> >>
> >





From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 08:04:41 2020
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 13:34:41 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzexQv6Tv8VojzE4_dCZ1ZcHwSy3=UgehFd5QTs1e2tHSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_41-Mu4RYwQidU7h6494Mi37YwuNjxH23q47wXyJLjxsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Deshpande Sir,


I am well aware of the problem that you mention. I have come across this
question so many times. Not only the *Anubhav?m?ta*, but also parts of
J??ne?vara's commentary on the BG resonate with a certain non-dual
philosophical notion. But this parallel resonance of ideas and metaphors is
very commonly present in the intellectual history of Sanskrit systems at
large. But I do not have any good reason to create a narrative about why it
should be either influenced by or attached to "Kashmir ?aivism". Whatever
the latter term stands for, we have certainly witnessed it rather becoming
fashionable to attach all non-dual notions either to "Kashmir ?aivism" or
to Abhinavagupta and it also sounds esoterically pleasing to uninformed
quasi-modern sensibilities. In a sense, this is what M?dhav?c?rya (author
of the *Sarvadr?anasa?graha*) was doing, at one point in time, placing the
*sv?tantrya-advaita-v?da* or *pratyabhij??-dar?ana* between the Vai??ava
ved?nta and Ny?ya-vai?e?ika. Even Madhus?dana Saraswati in his commentary
on the *?ivamahimn?stotra* places *sv?tantrya-advaita-v?da* somewhere
between Ny?ya-vai?e?ika and S??khya-yoga. According to them, there ought to
have been only one advaita, and that was Advaita-ved?nta. This is what is
being rhetorically repeated now where all non-dualisms are seen as leading
towards "Kashmir ?aivism" and this is probably what the gentleman in the
Marathi discussion group is doing.


I would rather like to believe that J??ne?vara's non-dualism was "his"
non-dualism influenced by (as you rightly pointed out) by the active N?tha
practicing cults etc. of that time in what is today's Maharashtra. After
all, the non-dual Krama ideas were not confined to Kashmir alone. Even
though I am not completely sure, but at a point in time I thought this
association of J??ne?vara and Kashmir ?aivism was initiated by Dilip Citre
in his English translation of the *Anubhav?m?ta* (Sahitya Academi, 1996),
but the concocted narrative sounds even older. If you read Citre's
introduction, he says "I had begun to realize that the seed of
Anubhavamruta was to be found in Vasugupta/Kallata's Spandakarikas and
Shivasutras and/or to the tradition attributed to Gorakhanatha who in turn
could have been influenced by Kashmir Shaiva doctrines." (p. 7). He further
adds, "I believe that Anubhavamruta is, to a large extent, Jnanadeva's
'philosophical' response to the key texts of Kashmir Shaivism, in
particular, the Shivasutras and the Spandakarikas and the later
commentaries on these. In my view, therefore, the Kashmir Shaivagama texts
and commentaries are essential background reading to determine contextually
the significance of Anubhavamruta" (p. 7-8).


In this light, in the recent past, there have been many attempts of writing
or translating the ?Kashmir ?aivism? works into Marathi. For instance, to
cite only one author, the Marathi translations of the *Tantrava?adh?nik?*
(1997), the *?ivas?tras* (2004), the *Tantr?loka* (Chapter first)
(2005), *Spanda
??stra* (2001), *Mah?rthama?jar?* (2003), and many more texts by Keshav
Ramchandra Joshi who seems to seamlessly interpret and connect everything
with something called Siddha Yoga that in my understanding is the
20th-century construction that seeks legitimacy from some or many of these
archaic Sanskrit texts of Kashmiri origin.


I do not think J??ne?vara, as original as he is in himself, should be
forcefully converted to some ?Kashmir Shaivism?. And I would be happy if
some learned scholars of this list have an opinion on this.


Mrinal
------
*Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
email: mrinal.kaul@ <mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org


On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 07:09, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.  This question came up because we
> have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the
> ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is
> leading the discussion is mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri
> ?aivism.  However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with
> his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias
> Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own elder
> brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.  So it appears that
> a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha
> tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti
> traditions.  I am myself just at the beginning stages of sorting all this
> out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.  With best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Prof Deshpande,
>>
>> This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the
>> authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact
>> Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the
>> 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point.
>> So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture.
>> There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book
>> of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya
>> dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question
>> mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in
>> the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.
>>
>> Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
>> *??ntabrahmav?din*s, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins
>> have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a
>> study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying
>> this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy
>> is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching
>> Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I
>> can finish it sooner than later.
>>
>> Best wishes.
>>
>> Mrinal
>> ------
>> *Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
>> Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
>> Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
>> Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
>> Karnataka, INDIA
>> Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
>> https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/
>> email: mrinal.kaul@ <mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu>stx.oxon.org
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the
>>> Shankara Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>
>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Sep  3 14:05:58 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 07:05:58 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need assistance
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdGmz5oqFsbDvx7083KUifkAMBwEgxJwyEgLJkBstSLYw@mail.gmail.com>

I have joined a Marathi group here in the Bay Area that plans to read
J??ne?vara's Amr?t?nubhava.  The very first verse salutes Nivr?ttin?tha as
his Guru.  I have tried to locate compositions of Nivr?ttin?tha himself,
without any success so far.  I would appreciate any help on sources, and
also on the connection of Nivr?ttin?tha to the N?tha tradition, and the
connection of the N?tha tradition to Kashmiri Shavism.  With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Thu Sep  3 15:16:49 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 17:16:49 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need assistance
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdGmz5oqFsbDvx7083KUifkAMBwEgxJwyEgLJkBstSLYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C04F90A9-EB21-4B11-B40A-ECD83A96E1B1@uclouvain.be>

Panduronga S. S. Pissurlencar, "A prop?sito dos primeiros livros maratas impressos em Goa", Boletim di Instituto da Gama 73, 1956, p. 55-79 ( http://memoria-africa.ua.pt/Library/ShowImage.aspx?q=/BIVG/BIVG-N073&p=1 ), refers to Jesuit manuscripts from Goa preserved at the Library of Braga (Portugal), dated to the end of the 16th century, with texts in Konkani and Marathi languages (in approximative Roman transcription); among the ones in Marathi, there would be a Bhagavadg?t?-??k? (Bhagavata-Guitechi-ttic?, ff? 209-233v) by one Nivr?tti-deva (Nivriti-deva) ? see p. 62 (but different reading of the same manuscript by L. A. Rodrigues, "Glimpses of the Konkani language at the turn of the sixteenth century, XIII: Ramayana and Mahabharata", Boletim do Instituto Menezes Bragan?a 163, 1991, p. 43-72,   https://issuu.com/redmackerel/docs/glimpses_-_xiv    t, p. 65). This Nivr?ttideva could correspond to Nivr?ttin?tha the elder brother and guru of  J??ne?vara.
As for the latter, according to Antonio Rigopoulos in Datt?treya. The immortal Guru, Yogin, and Avatara (State University of NY 1998; Sri Satguru Publ. 2000), p. 99:
 "According to tradition, J??ndev was initiated into the N?tha sect by his elder brother Nivr?tti, a disciple of Gahin?n?th, said to be the third or fourth in the Mar??h? nav-n?th lineage. Gahin?n?th and Gorakhn?th ? to whom the Viveka-darpa?a and the Gorakha-g?t? are attributed ? are considered to be the founders of mystical literature in Mar??h? that was subsequently taken up by J??ndev." 
(Rigopoulos deals also with the connections of Datt?treya's cult with Kashmir Shaivism in several places, e.g. pp. 171-172; there could be also things thereabout in Christian Bouy, Les N?tha-yogin et les Upani?ads: ?tude d'histoire de la litt?rature hindoue,  Paris, 1994, Publications e l'Institut de civilisation indienne, 62).



> Le 3 sept. 2020 ? 16:05, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> I have joined a Marathi group here in the Bay Area that plans to read J??ne?vara's Amr?t?nubhava.  The very first verse salutes Nivr?ttin?tha as his Guru.  I have tried to locate compositions of Nivr?ttin?tha himself, without any success so far.  I would appreciate any help on sources, and also on the connection of Nivr?ttin?tha to the N?tha tradition, and the connection of the N?tha tradition to Kashmiri Shavism.  With best wishes,
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2746e2e9240449b2803108d85012ac1a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637347388720461844&amp;sdata=F7f9OONoOq6A8Ctyzr1NkJPc9kP5NGjZFCzJH5EwF94%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Sep  3 15:33:32 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 08:33:32 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need assistance
In-Reply-To: <C04F90A9-EB21-4B11-B40A-ECD83A96E1B1@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf_DKKzENA1z=gu0ikV4ULf7LMu+3Lpnv3s0BGbUgagyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Christophe.  Will see if I can find this publication online.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 8:17 AM Christophe Vielle <
christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Panduronga S. S. Pissurlencar, "A prop?sito dos primeiros livros maratas
> impressos em Goa", *Boletim di Instituto da Gama* 73, 1956, p. 55-79 (
> http://memoria-africa.ua.pt/Library/ShowImage.aspx?q=/BIVG/BIVG-N073&p=1
> ), refers to Jesuit manuscripts from Goa preserved at the Library of Braga
> (Portugal), dated to the end of the 16th century, with texts in Konkani
> and Marathi languages (in approximative Roman transcription); among the
> ones in Marathi, there would be a *Bhagavadg?t?-??k?* (
> *Bhagavata-Guitechi-ttic?*, ff? 209-233v) by one Nivr?tti-deva (
> *Nivriti-deva*) ? see p. 62 (but different reading of the same manuscript
> by L. A. Rodrigues, "Glimpses of the Konkani language at the turn of the
> sixteenth century, XIII: Ramayana and Mahabharata", *Boletim do Instituto
> Menezes Bragan?a *163, 1991, p. 43-72,
> https://issuu.com/redmackerel/docs/glimpses_-_xiv    t, p. 65)*.*
> This Nivr?ttideva could correspond to Nivr?ttin?tha the elder brother and
> guru of  J??ne?vara.
> As for the latter, according to Antonio Rigopoulos in *Datt**?treya. The
> immortal Guru, Yogin, and Avatara* (State University of NY 1998; Sri
> Satguru Publ. 2000), p. 99:
>
>  "According to tradition, J??ndev was initiated into the N?tha sect by his
> elder brother Nivr?tti, a disciple of Gahin?n?th, said to be the third or
> fourth in the Mar??h? *nav-n**?th *lineage. Gahin?n?th and Gorakhn?th ?
> to whom the *Viveka-darpa?a* and the *Gorakha-**g?t? *are attributed ?
> are considered to be the founders of mystical literature in Mar??h? that
> was subsequently taken up by J??ndev."
>
> (Rigopoulos deals also with the connections of Datt?treya's cult
> with Kashmir Shaivism in several places, e.g. pp. 171-172; there could be
> also things thereabout in Christian Bouy, *Les N?tha-yogin et les
> Upani?ads: ?tude d'histoire de la litt?rature hindoue*,  Paris, 1994,
> Publications e l'Institut de civilisation indienne, 62).
>
>
>
> Le 3 sept. 2020 ? 16:05, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> I have joined a Marathi group here in the Bay Area that plans to read
> J??ne?vara's Amr?t?nubhava.  The very first verse salutes Nivr?ttin?tha as
> his Guru.  I have tried to locate compositions of Nivr?ttin?tha himself,
> without any success so far.  I would appreciate any help on sources, and
> also on the connection of Nivr?ttin?tha to the N?tha tradition, and the
> connection of the N?tha tradition to Kashmiri Shavism.  With best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2746e2e9240449b2803108d85012ac1a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637347388720461844&amp;sdata=F7f9OONoOq6A8Ctyzr1NkJPc9kP5NGjZFCzJH5EwF94%3D&amp;reserved=0
> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
>


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From scharfpm7 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 16:45:58 2020
From: scharfpm7 at gmail.com (Peter Scharf)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 11:45:58 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sanskrit Library offers courses
Message-ID: <1AE25AE6-2951-4431-8FE6-F061F9A6DE0A@gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
	The Sanskrit Library would like to announce that it is beginning to offer courses in Sanskrit and Sanskrit literature on-line.  We will be offering courses of two types: continuing education courses for casual learning consisting of ten one-hour lessons once a week for ten weeks, and university equivalent courses which expect student homework consisting of a few hours per week for fifteen weeks.  I will begin teaching a first-year Sanskrit course on 11 September, and Assistant Professor Tanuja Ajotikar will begin teaching an introduction to the Paninian tradition as a casual learning course on 12 September.  I include here descriptions of these two courses; click the Syllabus link for more detail; click the Register link to register.  We plan to offer a dozen courses over the next year which are described in detail on the courses page of the Sanskrit Library website.  Please share the news and the link below with anyone and everyone you think might be interested.

 https://www.sanskritlibrary.org/courses.html <https://www.sanskritlibrary.org/courses.html>

Introduction to the Pa?n?inian tradition.
CG20.
This course offers an overview of the architecture of Pa?n?ini?s As?t?a?dhya?yi? as well as an introduction to the whole Indian grammatical tradition. The As?t?a?dhya?yi?, a fairly complete generative grammar of Sanskrit composed by the 4th century BCE, is considered one of the greatest works of human intelligence. The main aim of the course is to introduce the structure of the As?t?a?dhya?yi? and richness of the Indian linguistic tradition to those who are not Sanskrit scholars but are curious to know about scientific literature in Sanskrit.
Instructor: Tanuja P. Ajotikar <http://localhost:8080/slx/cv/profiletanu.html>.
Schedule: 12 September ? 14 November 2020.
Course meeting times: Saturday 9:30-10:30am U.S. Central Time (IST 8:00-9:00pm/9pm-10:00pm after 1 November 2020 when CST changes to CDT).
Course fee: $300.
Syllabus <https://www.sanskritlibrary.org/courses/paniniantrad.html>.
Register. <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdiNVeja-k5GlCK8DNP1Vik8IwO4ngoxBcrAkQCnjaTtl6BMw/viewform>
Introductory Sanskrit I.
US101.
This course aims to provide a linguistically rich study of the world's most fascinating language equivalent to a first semester university course. Exercises introduce the extensive literature, profound philosophy and rich mythology of ancient India which has and continues to influence over a quarter of the world?s population today. After introducing the Devan?gar? script and Sanskrit phonology, the course surveys the intricate and highly organized structure of the grammar with the aim of enabling a student to begin reading original materials in the second semester. Readings in the first semester are adapted from Sanskrit literature.
Instructor: Peter M. Scharf <http://localhost:8080/slx/cv/profile.html>
Schedule: 11 September ? 23 December 2020.
Course meeting times: Tuesday and Friday 9:30-10:30am U.S. Central Time (IST 8:00-9:00pm/9pm-10:00pm after 1 November 2020 when CST changes to CDT).
Course fee: $2,500.
Syllabus <https://www.sanskritlibrary.org/courses/us101.html>.
Register. <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScnlTATn8IaSLnUpbo-d6RwY7fimW8Dfs_XTHO2gt2trx7aZA/viewform>

	Yours,
	Peter

******************************
Peter M. Scharf, President
The Sanskrit Library
scharf at sanskritlibrary.org <mailto:scharf at sanskritlibrary.org>
https://sanskritlibrary.org <https://sanskritlibrary.org/>
******************************



Peter Scharf
scharfpm7 at gmail.com



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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:26:54 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 17:26:54 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
Message-ID: <1599150680.S.26628.autosave.drafts.1599154014.31069@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Dr.Kapstein.The period which you referred i.e.9th-11th Century is significant indeed.This was the span of time which produced hordes of philosophers who were Post Sankara and deviated from Sankara's philosophy, in the form of Ramanuja,Maddhacharya, Nimbarka, Ballabhacharya etc.This has been beautifully elucidated by Madhavacharya in SarvaDarshanSamgraha.The philosophy they preached was either qualified Monism or Dualism.On the other hand, we also had Mandana Misra, Sureshwaracharya, Vimuktatmana and Madhusudan Saraswati, who strengthened the foundation of Absolute Monism, as laid down by Sankara.However,the earliest Philosopher who was a critic of Sankara philosophy was Bhaskara in the 9th Century about whom not much is known.Can anybody may kindly throw some light on Bhaskara's philosophy and his deviation from that of Sankara's?
Alakendu Das.


Sent from RediffmailNG on Android




From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;
Sent: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:24:37 GMT+0530
To: Madhav Deshpande &lt;mmdesh at umich.edu&gt;,  Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt;,  Indology &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

 


 



Dear friends,



Your discussion calls to mind a somewhat broader question: what do we know of the reception of ?a?karaved?nta beyond that tradition itself, particularly during the 9th-11th centuries? The
 absence of engagement, positive or negative, by others seems puzzling, no?



I will be most interested if you know of any work on this.




Thanks in advance,
Matthew 




Get Outlook for iOS


From: INDOLOGY &lt;indology-bounces at list.indology.info&gt; on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 3:39:23 AM

To: Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt;; Indology &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
&nbsp;


Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.&nbsp; This question came up because we have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is leading the discussion is
 mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri ?aivism.&nbsp; However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own
 elder brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.&nbsp; So it appears that a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti traditions.&nbsp; I am myself just at the
 beginning stages of sorting all this out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.&nbsp; With best wishes,









Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies





[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]















On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt; wrote:





Dear Prof Deshpande,





This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da
 Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point. So Ved?nta at large and particularly&nbsp;?a?kara is nowhere in the picture. There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya
 dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.





Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
??ntabrahmav?dins, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying this because I have myself seen
 in my own teaching practice that how easy is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I can finish it sooner than later.





Best wishes.





Mrinal
















------

Mrinal Kaul,&nbsp;Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)

Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)

Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex

Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104

Karnataka, INDIA

Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567

https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/

email: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org
























On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt; wrote:



Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?&nbsp; Thanks.






Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies





[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]










_______________________________________________

INDOLOGY mailing list

INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)

http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)






 
 
_______________________________________________

INDOLOGY mailing list

INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)

http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Sep  3 19:27:47 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 19:27:47 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <1599150680.S.26628.autosave.drafts.1599154014.31069@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB43960B58FC68C7DD0DD09355A12C0@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Akalendu Das,

Thank you for your response.

Unless I am mistaken, the figures you name are all either post-11th century, or - like Mandana and Suresvara - directly connected with Sankara's tradition. And I think all those you mention are in any case Vedantins.

What I was asking about, however, concerned responses to Sankara from representatives of other schools of thought.
These seem striking by their absence.

with best regards,

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> on behalf of alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 12:26 PM
To: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
Cc: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>; Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>; Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Dr.Kapstein.
The period which you referred i.e.9th-11th Century is significant indeed.This was the span of time which produced hordes of philosophers who were Post Sankara and deviated from Sankara's philosophy, in the form of Ramanuja,Maddhacharya, Nimbarka, Ballabhacharya etc.This has been beautifully elucidated by Madhavacharya in SarvaDarshanSamgraha.The philosophy they preached was either qualified Monism or Dualism.On the other hand, we also had Mandana Misra, Sureshwaracharya, Vimuktatmana and Madhusudan Saraswati, who strengthened the foundation of Absolute Monism, as laid down by Sankara.
However,the earliest Philosopher who was a critic of Sankara philosophy was Bhaskara in the 9th Century about whom not much is known.
Can anybody may kindly throw some light on Bhaskara's philosophy and his deviation from that of Sankara's?

Alakendu Das.



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android




From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:24:37 GMT+0530
To: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>, Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>, Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Dear friends,

Your discussion calls to mind a somewhat broader question: what do we know of the reception of ?a?karaved?nta beyond that tradition itself, particularly during the 9th-11th centuries? The absence of engagement, positive or negative, by others seems puzzling, no?

I will be most interested if you know of any work on this.

Thanks in advance,
Matthew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef==>
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 3:39:23 AM
To: Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>; Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.  This question came up because we have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is leading the discussion is mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri ?aivism.  However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own elder brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.  So it appears that a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti traditions.  I am myself just at the beginning stages of sorting all this out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.  With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Prof Deshpande,

This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact Utpala and Abhinava are using the 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point. So Ved?nta at large and particularly ?a?kara is nowhere in the picture. There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the book of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both dual or non-dual.

Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to ??ntabrahmav?dins, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying this because I have myself seen in my own teaching practice that how easy is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I can finish it sooner than later.

Best wishes.

Mrinal
------
Mrinal Kaul, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)
Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/<https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/==>
email: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org<http://stx.oxon.org==>


On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?  Thanks.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info==> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info==> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep  4 05:00:51 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 20 22:00:51 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The joy of a grammarian
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcmV3gRbQ5=w1bf6oqBq2G-5LU98Rc8AvzqzA-L-EsQiw@mail.gmail.com>

The joy of a grammarian:

The Joy of a Grammarian

Came across a short grammar of Marathi written by Gangadhar Ramchandra
Tilak, Lokmanya Tilak's father, and published in 1859. Just take a look:

https://ia801606.us.archive.org/4/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.366368/2015.366368.Laghu-Vyaakarand-a.pdf

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Fri Sep  4 09:06:33 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 09:06:33 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
Message-ID: <1599209868.S.93082.autosave.drafts.1599210393.32164@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Dr.Kapstein,
It's certainly true that except Ramanuja'( 11th century) ,and Nimbarka ( unconfirmingly 11th century) other philosophers I mentioned are post-11th Century.I apologise for being a bit confused in placing them chronologically.
What , I was trying to know if some references can be extracted regarding the philosophy of Bhaskara, who thrived in 9th century,and who has been shown as the first personality who was Anti -Shankara.Alakendu Das.
Sent from RediffmailNG on Android




From: Matthew Kapstein &lt;mkapstei at uchicago.edu&gt;
Sent: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 00:57:54 GMT+0530
To: alakendu das &lt;mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com&gt;
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question

 



 



Dear Akalendu Das,





Thank you for your response.





Unless I am mistaken, the figures you name are all either post-11th century, or - like Mandana and Suresvara - directly connected with Sankara's tradition. And I think all those you mention are in any case Vedantins.








What I was asking about, however, concerned responses to Sankara from representatives of other schools of thought.

These seem striking by their absence.







with best regards,









Matthew Kapstein

Directeur
 d'?tudes, ?m?rite

Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris



Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,

The University of Chicago







From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com &lt;mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com&gt; on behalf of alakendu das &lt;mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com&gt;

Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 12:26 PM

To: Matthew Kapstein &lt;mkapstei at uchicago.edu&gt;

Cc: Madhav Deshpande &lt;mmdesh at umich.edu&gt;; Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt;; Indology &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
&nbsp;

Dr.Kapstein.
The period which you referred i.e.9th-11th Century is significant indeed.This was the span of time which produced hordes of philosophers who were Post Sankara and deviated from Sankara's philosophy, in the form of Ramanuja,Maddhacharya, Nimbarka, Ballabhacharya
 etc.This has been beautifully elucidated by Madhavacharya in SarvaDarshanSamgraha.The philosophy they preached was either qualified Monism or Dualism.On the other hand, we also had Mandana Misra, Sureshwaracharya, Vimuktatmana and Madhusudan Saraswati, who
 strengthened the foundation of Absolute Monism, as laid down by Sankara.
However,the earliest Philosopher who was a critic of Sankara philosophy was Bhaskara in the 9th Century about whom not much is known.
Can anybody may kindly throw some light on Bhaskara's philosophy and his deviation from that of Sankara's?



Alakendu Das.







Sent from RediffmailNG on Android









From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Sent: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 13:24:37 GMT+0530

To: Madhav Deshpande &lt;mmdesh at umich.edu&gt;, Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt;, Indology &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question





Dear friends,



Your discussion calls to mind a somewhat broader question: what do we know of the reception of ?a?karaved?nta beyond that tradition itself, particularly during the 9th-11th centuries? The
 absence of engagement, positive or negative, by others seems puzzling, no?



I will be most interested if you know of any work on this.




Thanks in advance,
Matthew 




Get Outlook for iOS


From: INDOLOGY &lt;indology-bounces at list.indology.info&gt; on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 3:39:23 AM

To: Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt;; Indology &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
&nbsp;


Thanks, Mrinal, for this clarification.&nbsp; This question came up because we have recently joined a Marathi discussion group, where we are reading the ?????????, a philosophical work of ??????????, and the person who is leading the discussion is
 mixing up the ???kara Advaita with Kashmiri ?aivism.&nbsp; However, it seems to me that J??ne?vara's own work, along with his more well known commentary on the Bhagavadg?t?, the J??ne?var? alias Bh?v?rthad?pik?, are syncretic works. J??ne?vara's guru is his own
 elder brother Nivr?ttin?tha belonging to the N?tha tradition.&nbsp; So it appears that a brand of Kashmir ?aivism percolated into Maharashtra through the N?tha tradition and it got syncretized with ???kara Advaita and Bhakti traditions.&nbsp; I am myself just at the
 beginning stages of sorting all this out, and I would appreciate any suggestions.&nbsp; With best wishes,









Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies





[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]















On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:16 PM Mrinal Kaul &lt;mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com&gt; wrote:




Dear Prof Deshpande,



This is a problematic question. ?a?kara is completely unknown to the authors of non-dual ?aivism or even the dual ?iddh?nta ?aivism. In fact Utpala and Abhinava are using the
 'advaita' of Bhart?hari to encounter the 'advaita' of Vij??nav?da Buddhists to establish their own 'advaita' point. So Ved?nta at large and particularly&nbsp;?a?kara is nowhere in the picture. There is a very nice preface written by Prof Ambikadatta Sharma to the
 book of Prof Navjivan Rastogi titled 'Abhinavagupta k? tantr?gam?ya dharma-dar?ana' (2013) where he philosophically engages with this question mentioning why historically speaking ?a?kara does not become important in the case of ?aiva schools of Kashmir, both
 dual or non-dual.



Having said that, there certainly are references here and there to
??ntabrahmav?dins, but mostly they are passing references. Ved?ntins have never been important for ?aivas. However, I do think there should be a study that clearly reflects upon the two non-dual positions. I am saying this because I have myself seen
 in my own teaching practice that how easy is it to slip into the shoe of ?a?kar's advaita when one is teaching Abhinava, for instance. I am trying to work on something. Let us see if I can finish it sooner than later.



Best wishes.



Mrinal
















------

Mrinal Kaul,&nbsp;Ph.D.
Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH)

Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)

Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex

Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104

Karnataka, INDIA

Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567

https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/

email: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org
























On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 22:07, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt; wrote:



Can someone give me textual references for the refutation of the Shankara Advaita in works on Kashmir Shaivism?&nbsp; Thanks.






Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies





[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]










_______________________________________________

INDOLOGY mailing list

INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)

http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)






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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Fri Sep  4 13:30:02 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 15:30:02 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Alphabetic_Contents_of_B=C4=81=E1=B9=87a=E2=80=99s_K=C4=81dambar=C4=AB_[Publication_Announcement]?=
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUAuUr68m9dG1ZFJFVy3s63bHDJ27j8GmFsqfjBD-zCtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9da3027ef96f8e89840a0b0644f1823a@univie.ac.at>

Thank you, Prof. Slaje,

for bringing this very deserving publication to our attention. However, 
not the complete Sanskrit text of B??a?s K?dambar? is covered by this 
index, which lists lemma only up to Parab's edition (Bombay 1948) p. 
237, i.e., only a part of the p?rvabh?ga. This is mentioned in the 
preface, but no hint of it is given in the title of the book or by the 
Series number.
Are there plans to publish an index of the remaining parts?

Christian Ferstl



Am 30.08.2020 12:55, schrieb Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I should like to bring another new publication to your attention.
> 
> Kindly regarding,
> Walter Slaje
> 
>  Boll?e, Willem: Alphabetic Contents of B??a?s K?dambar?:
> Based on Gwendolyn Layne?s and David Smith's Translations (= Studia
> Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Band 17). Halle an der Saale:
> Universit?tsverlag Halle-Wittenberg, 2020, 168 S., ISBN:
> 978-3-86977-221-9, EAN: 9783869772219
> 
> In the words of David Smith, ?there is no Sanskrit poet more
> interesting than B??a, none more original, none greater, and his
> prose poem ?Princess K?dambar?? is his supreme achieve?ment.
> Always held in India to be the best prose poem, B??a?s
> K?dambar? is a master?piece of classical Sanskrit litera?ture,
> unrivaled in rich?ness and depth.
> 
> The late Professor Willem Boll?e (1927?2020) has prepared an index
> of words and notions of B??a?s difficult and unique romance
> K?dambar? with a view to unclosing the wealth of cultural
> infor?mation contained in this second work of genius of B??a.
> Professor Boll?e has released the present edition for printing. It is
> the last mono?graph from his untiring pen.
> 
> https://uvhw.de/neuerscheinungen/product/200702_08-221-9.html
> 
> For a complete list of all the volumes in this series, see:
> https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 14:21:37 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 16:21:37 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Alphabetic_Contents_of_B=C4=81=E1=B9=87a=E2=80=99s_K=C4=81dambar=C4=AB_[Publication_Announcement]?=
In-Reply-To: <9da3027ef96f8e89840a0b0644f1823a@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nUh12hj79P8eWhsuLBVzjEM+_h_9kmqDE7fkMXDEpOnzA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mr. Ferstl,

as can be seen from the blurb, Professor Boll?e himself had released this
volume for printing only a couple of days before his death in the course of
which he also decided on the title in exactly its published form. The
publisher and the series editors had to respect his wishes in this respect.
A PDF with Boll?e's preface can however be viewed and downloaded on the
publisher's order page before actually placing an order. It reads: "This
first volume analyses the text up to page 237 as far as Kane in his edition
of Peterson (Bombay, 1920-21) and accordingly David Smith's in the Clay
Sanskrit Library 51".
https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica/product/200702_08-221-9.html ("Read
Sample").

Since this one was, as I expressly stated in my announcement, "the last
monograph from his untiring pen", there can be no more subsequent volumes,
unless Professor Boll?e returns reborn with the same profession, or you or
someone else with a similar diligence as Professor Boll?e take the trouble
to complete his index themselves.

Kind regards,
WS


Am Fr., 4. Sept. 2020 um 15:30 Uhr schrieb Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>:

> Thank you, Prof. Slaje,
>
> for bringing this very deserving publication to our attention. However,
> not the complete Sanskrit text of B??a?s K?dambar? is covered by this
> index, which lists lemma only up to Parab's edition (Bombay 1948) p.
> 237, i.e., only a part of the p?rvabh?ga. This is mentioned in the
> preface, but no hint of it is given in the title of the book or by the
> Series number.
> Are there plans to publish an index of the remaining parts?
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
>
> Am 30.08.2020 12:55, schrieb Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY:
> > Dear Colleagues,
> >
> > I should like to bring another new publication to your attention.
> >
> > Kindly regarding,
> > Walter Slaje
> >
> >  Boll?e, Willem: Alphabetic Contents of B??a?s K?dambar?:
> > Based on Gwendolyn Layne?s and David Smith's Translations (= Studia
> > Indologica Universitatis Halensis, Band 17). Halle an der Saale:
> > Universit?tsverlag Halle-Wittenberg, 2020, 168 S., ISBN:
> > 978-3-86977-221-9, EAN: 9783869772219
> >
> > In the words of David Smith, ?there is no Sanskrit poet more
> > interesting than B??a, none more original, none greater, and his
> > prose poem ?Princess K?dambar?? is his supreme achieve?ment.
> > Always held in India to be the best prose poem, B??a?s
> > K?dambar? is a master?piece of classical Sanskrit litera?ture,
> > unrivaled in rich?ness and depth.
> >
> > The late Professor Willem Boll?e (1927?2020) has prepared an index
> > of words and notions of B??a?s difficult and unique romance
> > K?dambar? with a view to unclosing the wealth of cultural
> > infor?mation contained in this second work of genius of B??a.
> > Professor Boll?e has released the present edition for printing. It is
> > the last mono?graph from his untiring pen.
> >
> > https://uvhw.de/neuerscheinungen/product/200702_08-221-9.html
> >
> > For a complete list of all the volumes in this series, see:
> > https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 17:43:14 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 19:43:14 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
Message-ID: <3b359f31-cd69-2ed5-28a0-e920d8e9fcb2@gmail.com>

Dear List,

does anybody happen to have the pdf's of the following titles:

(1) The Journal of Oriental Research (Madras), vol 10. [or the two 
articles by Venkatasubbiah on the RV-Bhashyakaras in this volume]

(2) Kunhan Raja. 1947. Fragments of the Rigvedabhashya by Skandasvamin 
and Udgitha, Part two. Madras.

Thanks a lot in advance and best regards

Tim






From sundari.johansen at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 22:23:01 2020
From: sundari.johansen at gmail.com (Sundari Johansen Hurwitt)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 15:23:01 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
Message-ID: <CACh7YrRu95R52LukOgy3y9e4+dOZd_rppzk2zva9re8p2JcqTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl traditionally
becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto adulthood by
the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th century. I'm
already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of consent for
marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history following that.

In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
transition to adulthood.

Many thanks!
-sundari



--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
sundari.johansen at gmail.com
sjohansen at ciis.edu
she/her


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Sat Sep  5 00:08:17 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 00:08:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CACh7YrRu95R52LukOgy3y9e4+dOZd_rppzk2zva9re8p2JcqTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E67284E-46FE-4D16-9C34-0CFA623B7A52@austin.utexas.edu>

The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:

A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also
a man 16 years old.

Best,


Patrick




On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history following that.

In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that transition to adulthood.

Many thanks!
-sundari



--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
sjohansen at ciis.edu<mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
she/her


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:31:11 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 18:31:11 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The joy of a grammarian
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcmV3gRbQ5=w1bf6oqBq2G-5LU98Rc8AvzqzA-L-EsQiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfBF9qEEL8Yg87+aRid0-Dzk5rAPf9zCPbSfSiX2ceetQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wow.  That's hand-written, isn't it.  A lithograph, but unusual because it
is in portrait format.   What treasures there are in DLI and Archive.org.


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 23:02, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> The joy of a grammarian:
>
> The Joy of a Grammarian
>
> Came across a short grammar of Marathi written by Gangadhar Ramchandra
> Tilak, Lokmanya Tilak's father, and published in 1859. Just take a look:
>
>
> https://ia801606.us.archive.org/4/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.366368/2015.366368.Laghu-Vyaakarand-a.pdf
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Sep  5 01:07:02 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 20 18:07:02 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <5E67284E-46FE-4D16-9C34-0CFA623B7A52@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcnLzuxGSmRdh2f_+O-HidDuQNULEQ5QtRVAupf-Dz0XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Sundari,

     I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
comments on the word *gaur?:*

"???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
??????? ?????? ??????????? ?

   The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a does
not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance as
"the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
   On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
    With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>
> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
> (vyavah?ra), as also
> a man 16 years old.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
> following that.
>
> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
> transition to adulthood.
>
> Many thanks!
> -sundari
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
> sjohansen at ciis.edu
> she/her
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 10:34:37 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 12:34:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcnLzuxGSmRdh2f_+O-HidDuQNULEQ5QtRVAupf-Dz0XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVKVP05AbQgVJ78LdDiwbvwmtKY67=cZD-Yo9qeT_vyVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
course of your research.



Kind regards,

WS



1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl. Berlin
1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
pubescence).



2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983: 212
with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
(?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:

*nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let him
approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual
fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).

*nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
*M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:

*yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?] *maithuna?
kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.



3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
*var?ada?ak?d
?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||



4) *Manusm?ti*


*tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o '??avar???
v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||



?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).



There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged
8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an epithet
for her):



5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*

*dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *

*a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa dh**?**rja*
*?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||

*s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |

*d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||



6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:

*Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):

*a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*

*da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||



7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:

*pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*

*kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
[?]


*caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||



8) *R?m?ya?a*

S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:

*svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*

*?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||



The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
married to you before puberty?.

The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).

*kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)


9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
*prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).

Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Hello Sundari,
>
>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>
> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>
>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance
> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>     With best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>
>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>> a man 16 years old.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
>> following that.
>>
>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
>> transition to adulthood.
>>
>> Many thanks!
>> -sundari
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>> she/her
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Sat Sep  5 15:11:41 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 15:11:41 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nVKVP05AbQgVJ78LdDiwbvwmtKY67=cZD-Yo9qeT_vyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6CB3FF48-659A-46A7-ACA7-444D7E60A1A2@wlu.edu>

An arithmetical correction to note for the translation of Manu 9.94c:

4) Manusm?ti
tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m |
trya??avar?o '??avar??? v? dharme s?dati satvara? || MDh? 9.94 ||

?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an 24-year-old, a girl of 8 years -- sooner, if his fulfilling the Law would suffer.?

The groom is thus prescribed to be 2.5 to 3 times the age of the bride.

Best,
Tim Lubin


From: Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
Reply-To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Date: Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 6:35 AM
To: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Subject: Re: [RISA-L LIST] [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood

Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the course of your research.

Kind regards,
WS

1) See Richard Schmidt (Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik. 3. Aufl. Berlin 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of pubescence).

2) See moreover Ram Gopal, India of Vedic Kalpas?tras. Delhi 21983: 212 with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term nagnik? (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
nagnik?m [=] apr?ptastr?bh?v?m ayauvanaras?m upayaccheta (?let him approach a nagnik? girl for intercourse in whom the sexual characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual fluid (yauvanarasa) has not yet emerged.?).
nagnik?, defined as the ?best? (?re??h?) in the above passage of M?navag?hyas?tra as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the absence of pubic hair (aj?talomn?) as also discussed, e.g., by Bha??an?r?ya?a on Gobhilag?hyas?tra 2.5.7. According to the latter?s testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, [?] maithuna? kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante.

3) The Kashmirian K??hakag?hyas?tra determines the age of marriage of girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (da?av?r?ika? brahmacarya? kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments: var?ada?ak?d ?rdhva? brahmacarye kum?r? na sth?payitavy? pitr? ? agaty? v? dv?da?a var???i n?tikrama??y?ni ? (Devap?labh??ya ad 19.2. ||

4) Manusm?ti
tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m |
trya??avar?o '??avar??? v? dharme s?dati satvara? || MDh? 9.94 ||

?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an 18-year-old, a girl of 8 years - sooner, if his fulfilling the Law would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).

There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged 8 (a??avar??): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the technical term for which is gaur? (significantly also used as an epithet for her):

5) Jayadratha?s Haracaritacint?ma?i
dev? himavata? putr? k?l? n?lotpalacchavi? |
a??avar?? tapoyukt? bhart?ra? pr?pa dh?rja?im || Hc 22.3 ||
s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat? |
d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata || Hc 22.4 ||

6) gaur? = a??avar?? = prepubescent:
Brhadyamasmrti (= Par??arasm?ti 7.4):
a??avar?? bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |
da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval? || YS 182v 3.21 ||

7) A??avar?? marriage in the Rev?kha??a of the V?yupur??a:
pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |
kany? mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata || RKV 142.18 ||
[?]
caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? |
tasyeya? d?yat?? kany? ?i?up?lasya bh??maka || RKV 142.20 ||

8) R?m?ya?a
S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?kaum?r??:
svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |
?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||

The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was married to you before puberty?.
The commentaries R?m?ya?a?iroma?i und Bh??a?a on this passage (R?m 2.30,8) confirm kaum?r? as ?kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?? (?married already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
kum?r? = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)

9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is prau?h? (cp., eg., Bh?gavatapur??a 4.25.21 (a-prau?h? ? ?not yet fully developed?), or ??h? (cp. nava-??h? ? ?having just attained puberty?, as in Brahmavaivartap., ch. 112).

Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
Hello Sundari,

     I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531, edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are comments on the word gaur?:

"???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ?? ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ??? ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:" ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?

   The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to argue that the word gaura? used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
   On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
    With best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:

A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also
a man 16 years old.

Best,


Patrick





On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history following that.

In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that transition to adulthood.

Many thanks!
-sundari



--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
sjohansen at ciis.edu<mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
she/her


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From straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de  Sat Sep  5 16:09:34 2020
From: straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de (Martin Straube)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 18:09:34 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nVKVP05AbQgVJ78LdDiwbvwmtKY67=cZD-Yo9qeT_vyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200905180934.Horde.uC5C8Z1UtjShvJdVzzKvPaH@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>


One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",  
Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted  
in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.

Regards
Martin Straube

Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:

> Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
> course of your research.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> WS
>
>
>
> 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl. Berlin
> 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
> pubescence).
>
>
>
> 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983: 212
> with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
> (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>
> *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let him
> approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
> characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual
> fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>
> *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
> *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
> absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
> Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
> testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
> married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>
> *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?] *maithuna?
> kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>
>
>
> 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
> girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
> kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
> *var?ada?ak?d
> ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
> dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>
>
>
> 4) *Manusm?ti*
>
>
> *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o '??avar???
> v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>
>
>
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
> 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
> would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>
>
>
> There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged
> 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
> that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
> technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an epithet
> for her):
>
>
>
> 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>
> *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>
> *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa dh**?**rja*
> *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>
> *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>
> *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>
>
>
> 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>
> *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>
> *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>
> *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>
>
>
> 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>
> *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>
> *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
> [?]
>
>
> *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
> ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>
>
>
> 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>
> S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>
> *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>
> *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>
>
>
> The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
> married to you before puberty?.
>
> The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
> 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
> already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>
> *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>
>
> 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
> *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
> fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
> puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>
> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Hello Sundari,
>>
>>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
>> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
>> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
>> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>
>> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
>> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
>> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
>> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>
>>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance
>> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
>> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
>> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
>> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
>> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
>> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
>> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>     With best wishes,
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>>
>>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> a man 16 years old.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
>>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
>>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
>>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
>>> following that.
>>>
>>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
>>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
>>> transition to adulthood.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>> -sundari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>> she/her
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>



-- 
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany






From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 16:31:02 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 18:31:02 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <20200905180934.Horde.uC5C8Z1UtjShvJdVzzKvPaH@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nUHbD9azCVfWmREOHD0A68NT7kroOy1ivm-XghS1eA_+w@mail.gmail.com>

Another recommendation:

Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354



Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

>
> One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
> Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>
> Regards
> Martin Straube
>
> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>
> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
> > course of your research.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > WS
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
> Berlin
> > 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
> > pubescence).
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983:
> 212
> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
> > (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
> >
> > *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let
> him
> > approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
> menstrual
> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
> >
> > *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
> > *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
> > absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
> > Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
> > testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
> >
> > *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?]
> *maithuna?
> > kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
> >
> >
> >
> > 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
> > kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
> > *var?ada?ak?d
> > ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
> > dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
> >
> >
> >
> > 4) *Manusm?ti*
> >
> >
> > *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o
> '??avar???
> > v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
> >
> >
> >
> > ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
> > would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls
> aged
> > 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
> > technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an
> epithet
> > for her):
> >
> >
> >
> > 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
> >
> > *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?**
> | *
> >
> > *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa
> dh**?**rja*
> > *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
> >
> > *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
> >
> > *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
> >
> >
> >
> > 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
> >
> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
> >
> > *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
> >
> > *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
> >
> >
> >
> > 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
> >
> > *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
> >
> > *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
> > [?]
> >
> >
> > *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
> > ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
> >
> >
> >
> > 8) *R?m?ya?a*
> >
> > S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
> >
> > *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
> >
> > *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
> >
> >
> >
> > The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
> > married to you before puberty?.
> >
> > The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
> >
> > *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
> >
> >
> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
> > *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
> > fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
> > puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
> >
> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
> <
> > indology at list.indology.info>:
> >
> >> Hello Sundari,
> >>
> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
> commentary
> >> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p.
> 531,
> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
> >> comments on the word *gaur?:*
> >>
> >> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ??
> ??
> >> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??"
> ???
> >> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
> >> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
> >>
> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a
> to
> >> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric
> significance
> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned
> and
> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications,
> and I
> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother
> was
> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age
> of
> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
> married
> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
> >>     With best wishes,
> >>
> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>
> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
> >>>
> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
> >>> (vyavah?ra), as also
> >>> a man 16 years old.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Patrick
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into
> defacto
> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the
> 19th
> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
> >>> following that.
> >>>
> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of
> that
> >>> transition to adulthood.
> >>>
> >>> Many thanks!
> >>> -sundari
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
> >>> she/her
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or
> >>> unsubscribe)
> >>>
> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or
> >>> unsubscribe)
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or
> >> unsubscribe)
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Martin Straube
> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
> Pali Text Society
>
> Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
> Indologie und Tibetologie
> Deutschhausstrasse 12
> 35032 Marburg
> Germany
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Sat Sep  5 16:43:45 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 18:43:45 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Open Access to some of my publications
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc3jg1hRRTfi=kmFV4EGPXzUw1JKC6kFObGxfeBpBa8qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgboLfMDqHXWUKhN5u-_sR7uar21G_TqKHMbWK8FcQ+BLyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much for this information, Madhav! I must confess that I
have problems with reaching Indological research.

Best wishes,

Joanna

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Studies

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


?r., 2 wrz 2020 o 21:49 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> I am happy to announce Open Access to some of my publications.
>
> OPEN ACCESS LINKS FOR THREE PUBLICATIONS,
>
> thanks to an initiative by the University of Michigan Press, Ann Arbor,
> Michigan
>
>
> 1) Aryan and Non-Aryan in India
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande and Peter E. Hook, Editors
>
>
> OPEN ACCESS, download link:
>
> https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/z603r0512?locale=en
>
>
> 2) Paninian Studies: Professor S. D. Joshi Felicitation Volume
>
> Madhav Deshpande and Saroja Bhate, Editors
>
>
> OPEN ACCESS, download link:
>
> https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/nv9354860?locale=en
>
>
> 3) Critical Studies in Indian Grammarians I: The Theory of Homogeneity
> (S?var?ya)
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
>
>
> OPEN ACCESS, download link:
>
> https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/nc580p650?locale=en
>
>
> With best regards,
>
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 17:40:55 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 19:40:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CABdmZ4zeGgHqMY7YGXr4n+Wf9wqpzfZxUoPW6CXRK2CNUtuQ7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVz_8pjxJEBqONGExnn_kREemXpU37M_J6Y-zNaOyEr0w@mail.gmail.com>

There is an enormous amount of literature on this subject. Since the
question concerned pre-modern India, one can only speculate about the
practice, as we cannot rely on witnesses' reports. However, the cumulative
evidence of ancient Indian statements compiled from different sources and
periods, and which does not always concern stipulations only, does carry a
special weight.



"Marriage" in the above sense is a ritually sealed, legally binding act in
the sense that the woman would become a widow after the wedding if her
husband died.



The text passages quoted from *Dharma??stra*s and *G?hyas?tra*s deal with
the selection of the bride before the wedding and with her ideal marriage
age.



For the older epochs, Ram Gopal (quoted earlier) as well as Alfed
Hillebrandt ("Rituallitteratur. Vedische Opfer und Zauber", Strasburg 1897)
and Rajbali Pandey ("Hindu Sa?sk?ras. Socio-Religious Study of the Hindu
Sacraments. 2nd ed. Delhi 1969) are very helpful.

It is remarkable in this context that there is only one consecration (
*sa?sk?ra*) for women at all, namely that of their marriage.


Regards,

WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:58 Uhr schrieb Amy Langenberg <
langenap at eckerd.edu>:

> Dear colleagues,
> It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and
> whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual
> status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.
>
> These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this
> needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.
>
> Listening in with interest!
> Amy Langenberg
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Another recommendation:
>>
>> Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
>> Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
>> Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>
>>>
>>> One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
>>> Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
>>> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Martin Straube
>>>
>>> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>
>>> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
>>> > course of your research.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards,
>>> >
>>> > WS
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
>>> Berlin
>>> > 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
>>> > pubescence).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi
>>> 21983: 212
>>> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term
>>> *nagnik?*
>>> > (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>>> >
>>> > *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let
>>> him
>>> > approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
>>> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
>>> menstrual
>>> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>>> >
>>> > *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
>>> > *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
>>> > absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
>>> > Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
>>> > testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with
>>> prepubescent
>>> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>>> >
>>> > *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?]
>>> *maithuna?
>>> > kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
>>> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?**
>>> brahmacarya?
>>> > kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
>>> > *var?ada?ak?d
>>> > ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty?
>>> **v?
>>> > dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 4) *Manusm?ti*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o
>>> '??avar???
>>> > v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
>>> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
>>> > would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls
>>> aged
>>> > 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
>>> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
>>> > technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an
>>> epithet
>>> > for her):
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>>> >
>>> > *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?**
>>> n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>>> >
>>> > *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa
>>> dh**?**rja*
>>> > *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>>> >
>>> > *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>>> >
>>> > *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>>> >
>>> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>>> >
>>> > *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>>> >
>>> > *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>>> >
>>> > *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>>> >
>>> > *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
>>> > [?]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
>>> > ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>>> >
>>> > S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>>> >
>>> > *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>>> >
>>> > *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
>>> > married to you before puberty?.
>>> >
>>> > The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
>>> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
>>> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>>> >
>>> > *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
>>> > *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
>>> > fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
>>> > puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>>> >
>>> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via
>>> INDOLOGY <
>>> > indology at list.indology.info>:
>>> >
>>> >> Hello Sundari,
>>> >>
>>> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
>>> commentary
>>> >> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p.
>>> 531,
>>> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>>> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These
>>> are
>>> >> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>> >>
>>> >> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."?????????
>>> ?? ??
>>> >> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??"
>>> ???
>>> >> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???:
>>> ?????????:"
>>> >> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>> >>
>>> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe
>>> Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>>> >> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>>> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric
>>> significance
>>> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned
>>> and
>>> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a
>>> in
>>> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications,
>>> and I
>>> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same
>>> argument.
>>> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>>> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My
>>> grandmother was
>>> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the
>>> age of
>>> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
>>> married
>>> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>>> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>> >>     With best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >>
>>> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>>> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> >>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> >>> a man 16 years old.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Patrick
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into
>>> defacto
>>> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to
>>> the 19th
>>> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age
>>> of
>>> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the
>>> history
>>> >>> following that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature
>>> that
>>> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of
>>> that
>>> >>> transition to adulthood.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Many thanks!
>>> >>> -sundari
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>> >>> she/her
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >>> committee)
>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.
>>> <<
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >>> committee)
>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>> >>>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >> committee)
>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >> unsubscribe)
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Martin Straube
>>> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
>>> Pali Text Society
>>>
>>> Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
>>> Indologie und Tibetologie
>>> Deutschhausstrasse 12
>>> 35032 Marburg
>>> Germany
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
>> subscribed.
>> PLEASE use a signature with your full name and institutional affiliation.
>>
>> RISA-L mailing list
>> RISA-L at lists.sandiego.edu
>> https://lists.sandiego.edu/mailman/listinfo/risa-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
> subscribed.
> PLEASE use a signature with your full name and institutional affiliation.
>
> RISA-L mailing list
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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Sat Sep  5 18:09:11 2020
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 11:09:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <6CB3FF48-659A-46A7-ACA7-444D7E60A1A2@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <F7C71E3F-DE2C-4C39-B2C8-043AAEC64DEE@berkeley.edu>

So, for what it is worth, Kull?ka on the MS passage regards the verse to be more of a recommendation than a rule. etac ca yogyak?lapradar?anapara? na tu niyam?rtham. He also puts bit of thought into the term satvara?, ?if in haste? which appears to be rendered as ?sooner? in the translations offered.  Kull?ka  understands that a girl who has reached the  age of menstruation is a suitable bride for a youth who has completed his vedic studies and made his parting gift to his guru since such a  youth should not then delay in entering the stage of a householder. Hence, he says, the term satvara?, ?in haste? is specified.  tribh?gavayask? ca kany? vo?hur y?no yogyeti g?h?taveda? copakurv??ako g?hasth??rama? prati na vilambeteti satvara ity artha?.

Cheers to all.

Bob Goldman
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409

> On Sep 5, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> An arithmetical correction to note for the translation of Manu 9.94c:
>  
> 4) Manusm?ti
> tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m |
> trya??avar?o '??avar??? v? dharme s?dati satvara? || MDh? 9.94 ||
>  
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an 24-year-old, a girl of 8 years -- sooner, if his fulfilling the Law would suffer.?
>  
> The groom is thus prescribed to be 2.5 to 3 times the age of the bride.
>  
> Best,
> Tim Lubin
>  
>  
> From: Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com <mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu <mailto:risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu <mailto:risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>>
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 6:35 AM
> To: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
> Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu <mailto:risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu <mailto:risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [RISA-L LIST] [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
>  
> Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the course of your research.
>  
> Kind regards,
> WS
>  
> 1) See Richard Schmidt (Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik. 3. Aufl. Berlin 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of pubescence).
>  
> 2) See moreover Ram Gopal, India of Vedic Kalpas?tras. Delhi 21983: 212 with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term nagnik? (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
> nagnik?m [=] apr?ptastr?bh?v?m ayauvanaras?m upayaccheta (?let him approach a nagnik? girl for intercourse in whom the sexual characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual fluid (yauvanarasa) has not yet emerged.?).
> nagnik?, defined as the ?best? (?re??h?) in the above passage of M?navag?hyas?tra as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the absence of pubic hair (aj?talomn?) as also discussed, e.g., by Bha??an?r?ya?a on Gobhilag?hyas?tra 2.5.7. According to the latter?s testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
> yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, [?] maithuna? kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante.
>  
> 3) The Kashmirian K??hakag?hyas?tra determines the age of marriage of girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (da?av?r?ika? brahmacarya? kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments: var?ada?ak?d ?rdhva? brahmacarye kum?r? na sth?payitavy? pitr? ? agaty?v? dv?da?a var???i n?tikrama??y?ni ? (Devap?labh??ya ad 19.2. || 
>  
> 4) Manusm?ti
> tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m |
> trya??avar?o '??avar??? v? dharme s?dati satvara? || MDh? 9.94 ||
>  
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an 18-year-old, a girl of 8 years - sooner, if his fulfilling the Law would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>  
> There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged 8 (a??avar??): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the technical term for which is gaur? (significantly also used as an epithet for her):
>  
> 5) Jayadratha?s Haracaritacint?ma?i
> dev? himavata? putr? k?l? n?lotpalacchavi? |
> a??avar?? tapoyukt? bhart?ra? pr?pa dh?rja?im || Hc 22.3 ||
> s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat? |
> d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata || Hc 22.4 ||
>  
> 6) gaur? = a??avar?? = prepubescent:
> Brhadyamasmrti (= Par??arasm?ti 7.4):
> a??avar?? bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |
> da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval? || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>  
> 7) A??avar?? marriage in the Rev?kha??a of the V?yupur??a:
> pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |
> kany? mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata || RKV 142.18 ||
> [?]
> caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? |
> tasyeya? d?yat?? kany? ?i?up?lasya bh??maka || RKV 142.20 ||
>  
> 8) R?m?ya?a
> S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?kaum?r??:
> svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |
> ?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>  
> The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was married to you before puberty?.
> The commentaries R?m?ya?a?iroma?i und Bh??a?a on this passage (R?m 2.30,8) confirm kaum?r? as ?kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?? (?married already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
> kum?r? = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>  
> 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is prau?h? (cp., eg., Bh?gavatapur??a 4.25.21 (a-prau?h? ? ?not yet fully developed?), or??h? (cp. nava-??h? ? ?having just attained puberty?, as in Brahmavaivartap., ch. 112).
>  
> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>> Hello Sundari,
>>  
>>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531, edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are comments on the word gaur?:
>>  
>> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ?? ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ??? ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:" ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>  
>>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to argue that the word gaura? used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>     With best wishes,
>> 
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>  
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>  
>>  
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1: 
>>>  
>>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> a man 16 years old.
>>>  
>>> Best,
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Patrick
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>  
>>>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history following that.
>>>>  
>>>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that transition to adulthood. 
>>>>  
>>>> Many thanks!
>>>> -sundari
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>>  
>>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com <mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
>>>> sjohansen at ciis.edu <mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
>>>> she/her
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cd9b4101516b44e1b959908d851876410%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637348989238349839&sdata=B8Rn4sGtdfrKSmEVF2WVvKC%2F8NZHqQuH1jHtc5J5GhM%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>> 
>>>>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>>>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinks.utexas.edu%2Frtyclf&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cd9b4101516b44e1b959908d851876410%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637348989238349839&sdata=4G1QVJjYyNIIM%2FCGNiw6bbnMrufNC6rH1O3DfeiT0wU%3D&reserved=0>.                        <<
>>> 
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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From sundari.johansen at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 20:27:56 2020
From: sundari.johansen at gmail.com (Sundari Johansen Hurwitt)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 13:27:56 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CABdmZ4zeGgHqMY7YGXr4n+Wf9wqpzfZxUoPW6CXRK2CNUtuQ7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACh7YrQXz4kb_em80MhRZeY-Fm7kDmM9+ELHfYPQEnHu8L0trA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.

Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is
driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here
is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):

"A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
(vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."


To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able to
enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of legal
adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal
contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For
example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them
resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by
caste/class/etc.)

Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation of
marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped
over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live
with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here
in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or
judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been
married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it
most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If
married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're
not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of
their guardian... which is their spouse.)

All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read a
long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting
information on all of this in *Indian Puberty Rites *(p. 37-38)
*:*

?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be given
in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her third
menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:

?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a
Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval?
(i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not
give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s
(ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The
parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl
becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]


?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66;
B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation:
LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son
purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his
mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a
Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight
years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and
twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the
marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma
naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained
maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as
Garbh?dh?na.?

Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of
human history in most cultures been very different for women than for
men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal
implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as
well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also
changed.

Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own
thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children,
children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and
public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the
similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that
may be another post!

Thank you all so far!
-s

--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com | she/her



On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
> It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and
> whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual
> status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.
>
> These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this
> needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.
>
> Listening in with interest!
> Amy Langenberg
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Another recommendation:
>>
>> Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
>> Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
>> Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>
>>>
>>> One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
>>> Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
>>> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Martin Straube
>>>
>>> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>
>>> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
>>> > course of your research.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards,
>>> >
>>> > WS
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
>>> Berlin
>>> > 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
>>> > pubescence).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi
>>> 21983: 212
>>> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term
>>> *nagnik?*
>>> > (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>>> >
>>> > *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let
>>> him
>>> > approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
>>> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
>>> menstrual
>>> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>>> >
>>> > *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
>>> > *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
>>> > absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
>>> > Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
>>> > testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with
>>> prepubescent
>>> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>>> >
>>> > *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?]
>>> *maithuna?
>>> > kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
>>> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?**
>>> brahmacarya?
>>> > kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
>>> > *var?ada?ak?d
>>> > ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty?
>>> **v?
>>> > dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 4) *Manusm?ti*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o
>>> '??avar???
>>> > v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
>>> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
>>> > would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls
>>> aged
>>> > 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
>>> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
>>> > technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an
>>> epithet
>>> > for her):
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>>> >
>>> > *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?**
>>> n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>>> >
>>> > *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa
>>> dh**?**rja*
>>> > *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>>> >
>>> > *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>>> >
>>> > *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>>> >
>>> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>>> >
>>> > *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>>> >
>>> > *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>>> >
>>> > *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>>> >
>>> > *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
>>> > [?]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
>>> > ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>>> >
>>> > S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>>> >
>>> > *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>>> >
>>> > *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
>>> > married to you before puberty?.
>>> >
>>> > The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
>>> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
>>> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>>> >
>>> > *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
>>> > *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
>>> > fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
>>> > puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>>> >
>>> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via
>>> INDOLOGY <
>>> > indology at list.indology.info>:
>>> >
>>> >> Hello Sundari,
>>> >>
>>> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
>>> commentary
>>> >> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p.
>>> 531,
>>> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>>> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These
>>> are
>>> >> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>> >>
>>> >> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."?????????
>>> ?? ??
>>> >> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??"
>>> ???
>>> >> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???:
>>> ?????????:"
>>> >> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>> >>
>>> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe
>>> Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>>> >> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>>> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric
>>> significance
>>> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned
>>> and
>>> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a
>>> in
>>> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications,
>>> and I
>>> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same
>>> argument.
>>> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>>> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My
>>> grandmother was
>>> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the
>>> age of
>>> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
>>> married
>>> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>>> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>> >>     With best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >>
>>> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>>> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> >>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> >>> a man 16 years old.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Patrick
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into
>>> defacto
>>> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to
>>> the 19th
>>> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age
>>> of
>>> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the
>>> history
>>> >>> following that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature
>>> that
>>> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of
>>> that
>>> >>> transition to adulthood.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Many thanks!
>>> >>> -sundari
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>> >>> she/her
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >>> committee)
>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.
>>> <<
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >>> committee)
>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>> >>>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >> committee)
>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or
>>> >> unsubscribe)
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Martin Straube
>>> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
>>> Pali Text Society
>>>
>>> Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
>>> Indologie und Tibetologie
>>> Deutschhausstrasse 12
>>> 35032 Marburg
>>> Germany
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 21:24:54 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 20 23:24:54 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CACh7YrQXz4kb_em80MhRZeY-Fm7kDmM9+ELHfYPQEnHu8L0trA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nWJ-59i68L5x1Y6TZ0oF0bRzYjk-W_fTUnxPs6bnpNHzA@mail.gmail.com>

> girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their
husbands until after menarche

As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources as
I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation of
marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second'
marriage (*punar-viv?ha*) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent girl.
Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her first
menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her
husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the *garbh?dh?na
sa?sk?ra *(the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of making
the optimum use of her fertility.

Best wishes,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <
sundari.johansen at gmail.com>:

> Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.
>
> Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is
> driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here
> is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):
>
> "A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
> (vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."
>
>
> To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able to
> enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of legal
> adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal
> contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For
> example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them
> resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by
> caste/class/etc.)
>
> Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation
> of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped
> over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live
> with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here
> in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or
> judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been
> married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it
> most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If
> married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're
> not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of
> their guardian... which is their spouse.)
>
> All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read a
> long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting
> information on all of this in *Indian Puberty Rites *(p. 37-38)
> *:*
>
> ?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be given
> in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her third
> menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:
>
> ?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a
> Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval?
> (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not
> give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s
> (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The
> parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl
> becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]
>
>
> ?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66;
> B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation:
> LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son
> purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his
> mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a
> Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight
> years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and
> twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the
> marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma
> naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained
> maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as
> Garbh?dh?na.?
>
> Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of
> human history in most cultures been very different for women than for
> men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal
> implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as
> well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also
> changed.
>
> Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own
> thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children,
> children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and
> public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the
> similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that
> may be another post!
>
> Thank you all so far!
> -s
>
> --
>
> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com | she/her
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>> It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and
>> whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual
>> status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.
>>
>> These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this
>> needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.
>>
>> Listening in with interest!
>> Amy Langenberg
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Another recommendation:
>>>
>>> Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
>>> Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
>>> Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
>>>> Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
>>>> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Martin Straube
>>>>
>>>> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>
>>>> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
>>>> > course of your research.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Kind regards,
>>>> >
>>>> > WS
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
>>>> Berlin
>>>> > 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
>>>> > pubescence).
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi
>>>> 21983: 212
>>>> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term
>>>> *nagnik?*
>>>> > (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>>>> >
>>>> > *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta*
>>>> (?let him
>>>> > approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
>>>> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
>>>> menstrual
>>>> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>>>> >
>>>> > *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
>>>> > *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
>>>> > absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
>>>> > Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
>>>> > testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with
>>>> prepubescent
>>>> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired
>>>> so:
>>>> >
>>>> > *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?]
>>>> *maithuna?
>>>> > kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage
>>>> of
>>>> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?**
>>>> brahmacarya?
>>>> > kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
>>>> > *var?ada?ak?d
>>>> > ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty?
>>>> **v?
>>>> > dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 4) *Manusm?ti*
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o
>>>> '??avar???
>>>> > v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
>>>> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
>>>> > would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for
>>>> girls aged
>>>> > 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is
>>>> said
>>>> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
>>>> > technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an
>>>> epithet
>>>> > for her):
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>>>> >
>>>> > *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?**
>>>> n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>>>> >
>>>> > *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa
>>>> dh**?**rja*
>>>> > *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>>>> >
>>>> > *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>>>> >
>>>> > *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>>>> >
>>>> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>>>> >
>>>> > *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>>>> >
>>>> > *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>>>> >
>>>> > *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>>>> >
>>>> > *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
>>>> > [?]
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
>>>> > ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>>>> >
>>>> > S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>>>> >
>>>> > *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>>>> >
>>>> > *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
>>>> > married to you before puberty?.
>>>> >
>>>> > The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
>>>> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*?
>>>> (?married
>>>> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>>>> >
>>>> > *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
>>>> > *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
>>>> > fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
>>>> > puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>>>> >
>>>> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via
>>>> INDOLOGY <
>>>> > indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hello Sundari,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
>>>> commentary
>>>> >> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK
>>>> [p. 531,
>>>> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>>>> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These
>>>> are
>>>> >> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."?????????
>>>> ?? ??
>>>> >> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????:
>>>> ??" ???
>>>> >> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???:
>>>> ?????????:"
>>>> >> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe
>>>> Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>>>> >> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>>>> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric
>>>> significance
>>>> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a
>>>> learned and
>>>> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great
>>>> N?ge?abha??a in
>>>> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my
>>>> publications, and I
>>>> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same
>>>> argument.
>>>> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the
>>>> gradual
>>>> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My
>>>> grandmother was
>>>> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the
>>>> age of
>>>> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
>>>> married
>>>> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>>>> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>>> >>     With best wishes,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>> >>
>>>> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>>>> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>>> >>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>>> >>> a man 16 years old.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Best,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Patrick
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>>> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hi all,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>>> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into
>>>> defacto
>>>> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to
>>>> the 19th
>>>> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age
>>>> of
>>>> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the
>>>> history
>>>> >>> following that.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature
>>>> that
>>>> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers
>>>> of that
>>>> >>> transition to adulthood.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Many thanks!
>>>> >>> -sundari
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>>> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>>> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>>> >>> she/her
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> >>> committee)
>>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>> options or
>>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this
>>>> <<
>>>> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.
>>>> <<
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> >>> committee)
>>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>> options or
>>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> >> committee)
>>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>> options or
>>>> >> unsubscribe)
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Straube
>>>> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
>>>> Pali Text Society
>>>>
>>>> Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
>>>> Indologie und Tibetologie
>>>> Deutschhausstrasse 12
>>>> 35032 Marburg
>>>> Germany
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
>>> subscribed.
>>> PLEASE use a signature with your full name and institutional affiliation.
>>>
>>> RISA-L mailing list
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>>> https://lists.sandiego.edu/mailman/listinfo/risa-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
>> subscribed.
>> PLEASE use a signature with your full name and institutional affiliation.
>>
>> RISA-L mailing list
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>>
> _______________________________________________
> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
> subscribed.
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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Sun Sep  6 02:34:36 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 02:34:36 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CABdmZ4wY7J8O2grBcYNxD_zDOhM8cxpRBqqw4OfYvEAS9J8+kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9727E1DE-B2FE-4FD2-88EE-9DFF32867641@wlu.edu>

Dear Amy and all,

You are quite right that putative ?marriageability? cannot be treated as a proxy for women?s status as adult (in social terms or in legal terms), and I agree that ?adulthood? itself can mean different things when applied to women and men.  You can certainly point to sources that depict women as having a status that is (or rather is recommended to be) dependent (e.g., the notorious maxims in MDh 5.147?9 and 9.3).  As Professor Slaje cautions, such statements are normative, and represent a particular (albeit rather influential) viewpoint that carried weight in some religious or elite cultural circles, but not necessarily across all walks of life.

Another indication of social or legal status of women is legal agency.  Despite the maxims about dependency, even the most restrictive ??stras concede that women had property rights that ought to be protected by authorities, had certain marital rights, and could testify as a witness in court (at least if male witnesses were not available).  There are gendered distinctions in all these matters, of course.

Stephanie Jamison has pointed out, though, that even Brahmanical ??stric viewpoints on the status of women were not uniform or static over time, with the earliest Dharmas?tra, that of the ?pastamba tradition, depicting the married couple as sharing control of domestic property.  See:
Jamison, S. (2018) ?Women: str?dharma,? in Hindu Law: A New History of Dharma??stra, edited by P. Olivelle and D. R. Davis. The Oxford History of Hinduism. Oxford, 37?49.

Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra (3.2.19?34) attributed to women more control over property than, say, Manu, who, however, expresses a range of opinions on the matter.

We get only a few glimpses of direct evidence for knowing about women?s actual social and legal status in early times.  E.g., Leslie Orr (Donors, Devotees, and Daughters of God: Temple Women in Medieval Tamilnadu, Oxford, 2000) has shown that in medieval South India, women were very frequently recorded as donors in their own name to religious institutions, so that seems to indicate a substantial degree of financial autonomy and public self-representation.

Most likely the social and legal status of women in India varied by class, wealth, region, and other individual factors, and cannot be extrapolated from scriptural dicta, though we can try to read between the lines and make some inferences from comparing across sources and genres, and combing the epigraphy for any clues, however disparate.

Best,
Tim



From: Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu>
Reply-To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Date: Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 5:53 PM
To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [RISA-L LIST] [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood

Dear colleagues,
If I may, although it is important that we have a deep and thorough understanding of textual claims, simply compiling textual authorizations for how young girls can or ought to be "married" doesn't really answer the question of how female adulthood is understood and constituted in any real way. I would argue that the category of adulthood has not really applied to women in many historical and social contexts -- or only in a way that is so gendered as to be a different concept altogether. In particular, reproductive viability is often constitutive of female "adulthood" in a way that is not true of male "adulthood". And obviously the measure of reproductive viability mentioned in legal texts is highly androcentric to the point of fantasy. No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically or in terms of maturation, no matter what epoch we are speaking of.

best,
apl

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
> girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche

As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources as I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation of marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second' marriage (punar-viv?ha) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent girl. Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her first menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the garbh?dh?na sa?sk?ra (the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of making the optimum use of her fertility.

Best wishes,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>>:
Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.

Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):

"A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."

To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able to enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of legal adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by caste/class/etc.)

Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of their guardian... which is their spouse.)

All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read a long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting information on all of this in Indian Puberty Rites (p. 37-38):
?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be given in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her third menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:

?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval? (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]

?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66; B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation: LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as Garbh?dh?na.?

Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of human history in most cultures been very different for women than for men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also changed.

Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children, children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that may be another post!

Thank you all so far!
-s

--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com> | she/her



On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu<mailto:langenap at eckerd.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.

These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.

Listening in with interest!
Amy Langenberg

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
Another recommendation:

Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. Studia Orientalia Electronica, 110 (2014): 93-101.
Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjournal.fi%2Fstore%2Farticle%2Fview%2F45354&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cbe79599817694f1f41b608d851e61753%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349395957852191&sdata=ATi4V8LgaiEPL7GcVNlA1zwxCzImfaulR8lBAWnFMb8%3D&reserved=0>



Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.

Regards
Martin Straube

Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

> Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
> course of your research.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> WS
>
>
>
> 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl. Berlin
> 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
> pubescence).
>
>
>
> 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983: 212
> with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
> (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>
> *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let him
> approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
> characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual
> fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>
> *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
> *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
> absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
> Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
> testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
> married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>
> *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?] *maithuna?
> kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>
>
>
> 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
> girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
> kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
> *var?ada?ak?d
> ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
> dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>
>
>
> 4) *Manusm?ti*
>
>
> *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o '??avar???
> v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>
>
>
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
> 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
> would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>
>
>
> There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged
> 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
> that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
> technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an epithet
> for her):
>
>
>
> 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>
> *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>
> *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa dh**?**rja*
> *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>
> *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>
> *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>
>
>
> 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>
> *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>
> *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>
> *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>
>
>
> 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>
> *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>
> *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
> [?]
>
>
> *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
> ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>
>
>
> 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>
> S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>
> *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>
> *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>
>
>
> The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
> married to you before puberty?.
>
> The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
> 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
> already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>
> *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>
>
> 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
> *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
> fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
> puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>
> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>
>> Hello Sundari,
>>
>>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
>> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
>> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
>> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>
>> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
>> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
>> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
>> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>
>>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance
>> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
>> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
>> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
>> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
>> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
>> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
>> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>     With best wishes,
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>>
>>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> a man 16 years old.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
>>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
>>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
>>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
>>> following that.
>>>
>>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
>>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
>>> transition to adulthood.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>> -sundari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
>>> sjohansen at ciis.edu<mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
>>> she/her
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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--
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 08:14:10 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 10:14:10 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CABdmZ4wY7J8O2grBcYNxD_zDOhM8cxpRBqqw4OfYvEAS9J8+kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nUAyTHeySpNqDpnD8_qYqVsZ5xOdpZupcMH=P9TxkOR6A@mail.gmail.com>

> No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically
or in terms of maturation

The facts of the present speak against such an apodictically made
biological assertion:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#cite_note-Teen_pregnancies_higher_in_India_than_even_UK,_US-115

[?In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage sometimes results in
adolescent pregnancy, particularly in rural regions where the rate is much
higher than it is in urbanized areas. Latest data suggests that teen
pregnancy in India is high with 62 pregnant teens out of every 1,000
women.?]



I sense a classic strategy of appropriation, which unconsciously subjects
everything to the yardstick of one's own, namely Western, culturally shaped
view and personal experience made in such environments. Especially when it
comes to historical issues, one can only warn against this. Views grounded
in our everyday experience in the West of the 21st century must not be
projected uncritically onto ?all cultures and epochs?. Studying ancient
India means studying the distant past of a very distant culture, which had
developed entirely independent of whatever ideas, values and lifestyle the
west might entertain today.

The topic of fertility in particular was ? understandably ? particularly
central in the older epochs of India, and the best sources for such
historical questions are not the normative legal texts, but the numerous
old Indian G?hyas?tras, which tradition counts among the Vedic auxiliary
literature. Together with the rich and extensive commentaries from the
Middle Ages, studied without bias, the broadly spread evidence can lead to
insights that may not necessarily meet modern expectations and wishful
thinking, but at least allow us to get closer to a reality that lies far
behind.


Kind regards,

WS



Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 23:53 Uhr schrieb Amy Langenberg <
langenap at eckerd.edu>:

> Dear colleagues,
> If I may, although it is important that we have a deep and thorough
> understanding of textual claims, simply compiling textual authorizations
> for how young girls can or ought to be "married" doesn't really answer the
> question of how female adulthood is understood and constituted in any real
> way. I would argue that the category of adulthood has not really applied to
> women in many historical and social contexts -- or only in a way that is so
> gendered as to be a different concept altogether. In particular,
> reproductive viability is often constitutive of female "adulthood" in a way
> that is not true of male "adulthood". And obviously the measure of
> reproductive viability mentioned in legal texts is highly androcentric to
> the point of fantasy. No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real
> way -- physically or in terms of maturation, no matter what epoch we are
> speaking of.
>
> best,
> apl
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their
>> husbands until after menarche
>>
>> As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources
>> as I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation
>> of marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second'
>> marriage (*punar-viv?ha*) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent
>> girl. Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her
>> first menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her
>> husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the *garbh?dh?na
>> sa?sk?ra *(the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of
>> making the optimum use of her fertility.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> WS
>>
>>
>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <
>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.
>>>
>>> Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is
>>> driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here
>>> is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):
>>>
>>> "A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."
>>>
>>>
>>> To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able
>>> to enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of
>>> legal adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal
>>> contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For
>>> example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them
>>> resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by
>>> caste/class/etc.)
>>>
>>> Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation
>>> of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped
>>> over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live
>>> with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here
>>> in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or
>>> judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been
>>> married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it
>>> most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If
>>> married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're
>>> not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of
>>> their guardian... which is their spouse.)
>>>
>>> All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read
>>> a long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting
>>> information on all of this in *Indian Puberty Rites *(p. 37-38)
>>> *:*
>>>
>>> ?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be
>>> given in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her
>>> third menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:
>>>
>>> ?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a
>>> Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval?
>>> (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not
>>> give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s
>>> (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The
>>> parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl
>>> becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]
>>>
>>>
>>> ?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66;
>>> B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation:
>>> LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son
>>> purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his
>>> mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a
>>> Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight
>>> years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and
>>> twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the
>>> marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma
>>> naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained
>>> maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as
>>> Garbh?dh?na.?
>>>
>>> Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of
>>> human history in most cultures been very different for women than for
>>> men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal
>>> implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as
>>> well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own
>>> thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children,
>>> children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and
>>> public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the
>>> similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that
>>> may be another post!
>>>
>>> Thank you all so far!
>>> -s
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com | she/her
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and
>>>> whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual
>>>> status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.
>>>>
>>>> These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this
>>>> needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Listening in with interest!
>>>> Amy Langenberg
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Another recommendation:
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. *Studia Orientalia
>>>>> Electronica*, 110 (2014): 93-101.
>>>>> Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY
>>>>> <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
>>>>>> Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
>>>>>> in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Martin Straube
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > course of your research.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Kind regards,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > WS
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl.
>>>>>> Berlin
>>>>>> > 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
>>>>>> > pubescence).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi
>>>>>> 21983: 212
>>>>>> > with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term
>>>>>> *nagnik?*
>>>>>> > (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta*
>>>>>> (?let him
>>>>>> > approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
>>>>>> > characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the
>>>>>> menstrual
>>>>>> > fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
>>>>>> > *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
>>>>>> > absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
>>>>>> > Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the
>>>>>> latter?s
>>>>>> > testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with
>>>>>> prepubescent
>>>>>> > married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired
>>>>>> so:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?]
>>>>>> *maithuna?
>>>>>> > kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of
>>>>>> marriage of
>>>>>> > girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?**
>>>>>> brahmacarya?
>>>>>> > kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
>>>>>> > *var?ada?ak?d
>>>>>> > ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?*
>>>>>> *agaty? **v?
>>>>>> > dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 4) *Manusm?ti*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o
>>>>>> '??avar???
>>>>>> > v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
>>>>>> > 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the
>>>>>> Law
>>>>>> > would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for
>>>>>> girls aged
>>>>>> > 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> > that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an
>>>>>> epithet
>>>>>> > for her):
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?**
>>>>>> n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa
>>>>>> dh**?**rja*
>>>>>> > *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
>>>>>> > [?]
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat??
>>>>>> kany?
>>>>>> > ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> > married to you before puberty?.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage
>>>>>> (R?m
>>>>>> > 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*?
>>>>>> (?married
>>>>>> > already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> > *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>> > fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just
>>>>>> attained
>>>>>> > puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via
>>>>>> INDOLOGY <
>>>>>> > indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Hello Sundari,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the
>>>>>> commentary
>>>>>> >> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK
>>>>>> [p. 531,
>>>>>> >> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>>>>>> >> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:
>>>>>> These are
>>>>>> >> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ??????
>>>>>> ?..."????????? ?? ??
>>>>>> >> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????:
>>>>>> ??" ???
>>>>>> >> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???:
>>>>>> ?????????:"
>>>>>> >> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe
>>>>>> Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>>>>>> >> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a
>>>>>> Br?hma?a
>>>>>> >> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric
>>>>>> significance
>>>>>> >> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a
>>>>>> learned and
>>>>>> >> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great
>>>>>> N?ge?abha??a in
>>>>>> >> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my
>>>>>> publications, and I
>>>>>> >> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same
>>>>>> argument.
>>>>>> >>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the
>>>>>> gradual
>>>>>> >> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My
>>>>>> grandmother was
>>>>>> >> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the
>>>>>> age of
>>>>>> >> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were
>>>>>> married
>>>>>> >> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> >> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>>>>> >>     With best wishes,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>>> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>>> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>>> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>>>>>> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra
>>>>>> 3.3.1:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>>>>> >>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>>>>> >>> a man 16 years old.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Best,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Patrick
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY
>>>>>> <
>>>>>> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Hi all,
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>>>>> >>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions
>>>>>> into defacto
>>>>>> >>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior
>>>>>> to the 19th
>>>>>> >>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the
>>>>>> age of
>>>>>> >>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the
>>>>>> history
>>>>>> >>> following that.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers
>>>>>> of that
>>>>>> >>> transition to adulthood.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Many thanks!
>>>>>> >>> -sundari
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>>>>> >>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com
>>>>>> >>> sjohansen at ciis.edu
>>>>>> >>> she/her
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>>>>> managing
>>>>>> >>> committee)
>>>>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or
>>>>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why
>>>>>> this <<
>>>>>> >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.
>>>>>>   <<
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>>>>> managing
>>>>>> >>> committee)
>>>>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or
>>>>>> >>> unsubscribe)
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> >> committee)
>>>>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or
>>>>>> >> unsubscribe)
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Martin Straube
>>>>>> Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
>>>>>> Pali Text Society
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
>>>>>> Indologie und Tibetologie
>>>>>> Deutschhausstrasse 12
>>>>>> 35032 Marburg
>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PLEASE post to this list ONLY from an email account that has been
>>>>> subscribed.
>>>>> PLEASE use a signature with your full name and institutional
>>>>> affiliation.
>>>>>
>>>>> RISA-L mailing list
>>>>> RISA-L at lists.sandiego.edu
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>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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From michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de  Sun Sep  6 08:38:28 2020
From: michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 08:38:28 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUAyTHeySpNqDpnD8_qYqVsZ5xOdpZupcMH=P9TxkOR6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39175A19-953C-4E18-9DCD-E6E5F49F8C63@hcts.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear all,

though from the mid-19th century, the regulations from the Nepalese first code, the Ain of 1854 might be instructive, as the norms expressed are much older:

The age of majority was 12 years. ?No punishment or imprisonment shall be required for children below the age of 12?, declares the Ain with respect to theft (? 68.7). However, for written loan agreements the child must have been 16 (? 92.2). And there were different ages of majority for boys and girls:

?If a minor boy below the age of 11 and a girl who is past the age of 10 from a Sacred Thread-wearing caste have illicit sexual intercourse, the girl shall not be granted expiation. She is excluded from her caste. The boy requires neither royal punishment (r?jada??a) nor a fine? (? 92.8)
The Ain also declares an ?age of having [real] sexual intercourse?:

?If a boy below the age of 11 and a girl below the age of 10 have sexual intercourse, it shall not be considered that the hymen is ruptured, because they have not reached the age of having [real] sexual intercourse. They retain their caste status and they do not need to undergo penance. Such a boy and girl shall be scolded and be let off. Neither a fine nor a fee is required.? (? 92.10).
Best regards,
Axel Michaels

__________________________________________________

[cats]

Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels
Senior Professor

Centre for Asian and Transcultural Studies (CATS)
S?dasien-Institut / South Asia Institute
Universit?t Heidelberg

Vossstr. 2, Geb. 4130
Raum 130.03.07
D-69115 Heidelberg

T: +49-6221-5415209
E: michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de<mailto:michaels at hcts.uni-heidelberg.de>
W: www.hadw-bw.de/nepal.html<http://www.hadw-bw.de/nepal.html>,
      http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php?id=4396


From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, 6. September 2020 at 10:15
To: "Religion in South Asia (RISA) Academic Discussion List" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood

> No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically or in terms of maturation
The facts of the present speak against such an apodictically made biological assertion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#cite_note-Teen_pregnancies_higher_in_India_than_even_UK,_US-115
[?In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage sometimes results in adolescent pregnancy, particularly in rural regions where the rate is much higher than it is in urbanized areas. Latest data suggests that teen pregnancy in India is high with 62 pregnant teens out of every 1,000 women.?]

I sense a classic strategy of appropriation, which unconsciously subjects everything to the yardstick of one's own, namely Western, culturally shaped view and personal experience made in such environments. Especially when it comes to historical issues, one can only warn against this. Views grounded in our everyday experience in the West of the 21st century must not be projected uncritically onto ?all cultures and epochs?. Studying ancient India means studying the distant past of a very distant culture, which had developed entirely independent of whatever ideas, values and lifestyle the west might entertain today.
The topic of fertility in particular was ? understandably ? particularly central in the older epochs of India, and the best sources for such historical questions are not the normative legal texts, but the numerous old Indian G?hyas?tras, which tradition counts among the Vedic auxiliary literature. Together with the rich and extensive commentaries from the Middle Ages, studied without bias, the broadly spread evidence can lead to insights that may not necessarily meet modern expectations and wishful thinking, but at least allow us to get closer to a reality that lies far behind.

Kind regards,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 23:53 Uhr schrieb Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu<mailto:langenap at eckerd.edu>>:
Dear colleagues,
If I may, although it is important that we have a deep and thorough understanding of textual claims, simply compiling textual authorizations for how young girls can or ought to be "married" doesn't really answer the question of how female adulthood is understood and constituted in any real way. I would argue that the category of adulthood has not really applied to women in many historical and social contexts -- or only in a way that is so gendered as to be a different concept altogether. In particular, reproductive viability is often constitutive of female "adulthood" in a way that is not true of male "adulthood". And obviously the measure of reproductive viability mentioned in legal texts is highly androcentric to the point of fantasy. No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically or in terms of maturation, no matter what epoch we are speaking of.

best,
apl

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
> girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche

As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources as I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation of marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second' marriage (punar-viv?ha) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent girl. Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her first menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the garbh?dh?na sa?sk?ra (the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of making the optimum use of her fertility.

Best wishes,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>>:
Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.

Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):

"A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."

To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able to enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of legal adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by caste/class/etc.)

Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of their guardian... which is their spouse.)

All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read a long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting information on all of this in Indian Puberty Rites (p. 37-38):
?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be given in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her third menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:

?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval? (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]

?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66; B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation: LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as Garbh?dh?na.?

Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of human history in most cultures been very different for women than for men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also changed.

Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children, children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that may be another post!

Thank you all so far!
-s

--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com> | she/her



On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu<mailto:langenap at eckerd.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.

These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.

Listening in with interest!
Amy Langenberg

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
Another recommendation:

Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. Studia Orientalia Electronica, 110 (2014): 93-101.
Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354



Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.

Regards
Martin Straube

Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

> Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
> course of your research.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> WS
>
>
>
> 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl. Berlin
> 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
> pubescence).
>
>
>
> 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983: 212
> with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
> (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>
> *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let him
> approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
> characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual
> fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>
> *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
> *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
> absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
> Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
> testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
> married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>
> *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?] *maithuna?
> kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>
>
>
> 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
> girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
> kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
> *var?ada?ak?d
> ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
> dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>
>
>
> 4) *Manusm?ti*
>
>
> *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o '??avar???
> v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>
>
>
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
> 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
> would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>
>
>
> There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged
> 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
> that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
> technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an epithet
> for her):
>
>
>
> 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>
> *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>
> *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa dh**?**rja*
> *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>
> *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>
> *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>
>
>
> 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>
> *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>
> *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>
> *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>
>
>
> 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>
> *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>
> *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
> [?]
>
>
> *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
> ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>
>
>
> 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>
> S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>
> *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>
> *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>
>
>
> The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
> married to you before puberty?.
>
> The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
> 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
> already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>
> *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>
>
> 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
> *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
> fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
> puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>
> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>
>> Hello Sundari,
>>
>>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
>> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
>> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
>> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>
>> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
>> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
>> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
>> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>
>>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance
>> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
>> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
>> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
>> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
>> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
>> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
>> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>     With best wishes,
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>>
>>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> a man 16 years old.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
>>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
>>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
>>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
>>> following that.
>>>
>>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
>>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
>>> transition to adulthood.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>> -sundari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
>>> sjohansen at ciis.edu<mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
>>> she/her
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>



--
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Sun Sep  6 14:22:56 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 14:22:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUAyTHeySpNqDpnD8_qYqVsZ5xOdpZupcMH=P9TxkOR6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4CD7536-9C2B-4592-9DF2-93F621831174@wlu.edu>

This catalogue of human misery seems rather to support Dr. Langenberg?s points: the very early pregnancies listed here as extreme cases are full of medical interventions, underweight and premature births, deaths, etc.  The teenage-pregnancy page says:
?There are additional concerns for those under the age of 15 as they are less likely to be physically developed to sustain a healthy pregnancy or to give birth?. Risks of low birth weight, premature labor, anemia, and pre-eclampsia are connected to biological age, being observed in teen births even after controlling for other risk factors (such as accessing prenatal care etc.).?
?The facts.?
Early marriages have been common in India and elsewhere, esp. in the past, and must be understood within their cultural contexts.  We also need to take account of the nature and limitations of our sources.  But general physiological considerations are also relevant.

TL



From: Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
Reply-To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 4:15 AM
To: "risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu" <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [RISA-L LIST] [INDOLOGY] sources on markers of girls' transition to adulthood

> No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically or in terms of maturation
The facts of the present speak against such an apodictically made biological assertion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FList_of_youngest_birth_mothers&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004073925&sdata=7bg0ym%2F603dzBMVes%2B04etVexiMF1QbMkRAVtUOowrc%3D&reserved=0>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy#cite_note-Teen_pregnancies_higher_in_India_than_even_UK,_US-115<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTeenage_pregnancy%23cite_note-Teen_pregnancies_higher_in_India_than_even_UK%2C_US-115&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004083919&sdata=xl%2F2zUaBOHUgH50n1asswGrzQ7yE%2FxwGSH07eBA%2BPC8%3D&reserved=0>
[?In the Indian subcontinent, early marriage sometimes results in adolescent pregnancy, particularly in rural regions where the rate is much higher than it is in urbanized areas. Latest data suggests that teen pregnancy in India is high with 62 pregnant teens out of every 1,000 women.?]

I sense a classic strategy of appropriation, which unconsciously subjects everything to the yardstick of one's own, namely Western, culturally shaped view and personal experience made in such environments. Especially when it comes to historical issues, one can only warn against this. Views grounded in our everyday experience in the West of the 21st century must not be projected uncritically onto ?all cultures and epochs?. Studying ancient India means studying the distant past of a very distant culture, which had developed entirely independent of whatever ideas, values and lifestyle the west might entertain today.
The topic of fertility in particular was ? understandably ? particularly central in the older epochs of India, and the best sources for such historical questions are not the normative legal texts, but the numerous old Indian G?hyas?tras, which tradition counts among the Vedic auxiliary literature. Together with the rich and extensive commentaries from the Middle Ages, studied without bias, the broadly spread evidence can lead to insights that may not necessarily meet modern expectations and wishful thinking, but at least allow us to get closer to a reality that lies far behind.

Kind regards,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 23:53 Uhr schrieb Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu<mailto:langenap at eckerd.edu>>:
Dear colleagues,
If I may, although it is important that we have a deep and thorough understanding of textual claims, simply compiling textual authorizations for how young girls can or ought to be "married" doesn't really answer the question of how female adulthood is understood and constituted in any real way. I would argue that the category of adulthood has not really applied to women in many historical and social contexts -- or only in a way that is so gendered as to be a different concept altogether. In particular, reproductive viability is often constitutive of female "adulthood" in a way that is not true of male "adulthood". And obviously the measure of reproductive viability mentioned in legal texts is highly androcentric to the point of fantasy. No 10-12-year-old is ready to be a mother in any real way -- physically or in terms of maturation, no matter what epoch we are speaking of.

best,
apl

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
> girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche

As far as my recollection goes - I am not in a position to cite sources as I have no access to the relevant files at the moment -, the consummation of marriage could also take place on the occasion of a so-called 'second' marriage (punar-viv?ha) after the ritual wedding of a prepubescent girl. Immediately after she had reached a childbearing age (i.e. after her first menstruation), the girl was brought from her parents' house to her husband's house. This practice corresponds more or less to the garbh?dh?na sa?sk?ra (the rite of "impregnation") and had the sole purpose of making the optimum use of her fertility.

Best wishes,
WS


Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 22:28 Uhr schrieb Sundari Johansen Hurwitt <sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>>:
Thank you to everyone for these very helpful responses.

Amy, you have a very good question, and it's certainly part of what is driving my initial query. I think Patrick Olivelle's earlier response here is relevant, which quoted Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1 (his translation):

"A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions (vyavah?ra), as also a man 16 years old."

To Walter Slaje's point, a marriage is a legal contract, and being able to enter into legal contracts has long been established as the marker of legal adulthood. For me that begs the question: what other binding legal contracts were girls and women allowed to enter besides marriage? For example, do we know if they were able to bring grievances to have them resolved via the legal system? (And this may be further complicated by caste/class/etc.)

Another pertinent question for me: was it age, marriage, or consummation of marriage that marked a girl's legal adulthood? The marriage age dropped over time, and girls married at very young ages were often not sent to live with their husbands until after menarche. (It's a modern example, but here in the US several states have no minimum age for marriage, parental and/or judicial consent is all that's required. Girls as young as 10 have been married to men in their mid-late 20s and early 30s, fairly recently, and it most frequently happens in evangelical communities in the rural South. If married at 16 or older, they are legally an adult. But 15 or under, they're not, and can't even hire a lawyer or seek a divorce without permission of their guardian... which is their spouse.)

All of the (very) helpful responses so far reminded me of a book I read a long while back. Narendra Nath Bhattacharyya has some interesting information on all of this in Indian Puberty Rites (p. 37-38):
?In the Dharmas?tra of Gautama it is stated that the girl should be given in marriage at puberty; she is allowed to remain a virgin until her third menstruation. [citation: XVIII.20-23] Par??ara says:

?A girl of eight is called Gaur?; but one who is nine years old is a Rohin?; one who is ten years old is a Kany?; beyond this one is Rajasval? (i.e. one who has the experience of menstruation). If a person does not give away a maiden when she has reached her twelfth year, his Pit?s (ancestors) will have to drink every month her menstrual discharge. The parents and also the eldest brother go to hell on seeing an unmarried girl becoming Rajasval?.? [citation: Par??ara Sm?ti, VII.6-9]

?The same is also stated in other Sm?tis. [citation: Samvarta, 65-66; B?had-yama, III.19-22, A?giras, 126-28] The V?yu Pur??a [citation: LXXXIII.44] extols the marriage of a Gaur? by remarking that her son purifies 21 ancestors on his father?s side and six male ancestors of his mother?s side. In a later work it is stated that a Br?hma?a should marry a Br?hma?a girl who is a Nagnik? or Gaur?, the former being a girl over eight years but less than ten, and the latter being one who is between ten and twelve and has not had menstruation. [citation: Vaikh?nasa, VI.12] As the marriageable age of the girls came down, the rite of Caturth?karma naturally became irrelevant and it was performed when the girls attained maturity long after the marriage and it accordingly came to be known as Garbh?dh?na.?

Just as a final thought, legal "adulthood" has for quite a large part of human history in most cultures been very different for women than for men, with differing ages, privileges, responsibilities, and legal implications. For that matter, both the idea of a "child" or "childhood" as well as what marks the boundary between "child" and "adult" have also changed.

Speaking of... if anybody is still reading this?not to hijack my own thread, but I'm reminded that I'm also looking for references on children, children's bodies, and rules around children's participation in ritual and public life. Especially on girls, but I'm also interested in the similarities and differences as ideals represented in the texts. But that may be another post!

Thank you all so far!
-s

--

Sundari Johansen Hurwitt | sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com> | she/her



On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:58 AM Amy Langenberg <langenap at eckerd.edu<mailto:langenap at eckerd.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
It would be helpful to know in these contexts what "marriage" means and whether attaining adulthood refers to sexual maturity, or a legal/ritual status, or whether the two are conflated in theory and/or in practice.

These are very young female bodies we are talking about. I'm sure this needs no mentioning, but I will mention it anyway.

Listening in with interest!
Amy Langenberg

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 12:31 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com<mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
Another recommendation:

Harry Falk, Die Kurus und ihre jungen Frauen. Studia Orientalia Electronica, 110 (2014): 93-101.
Retrieved from https://journal.fi/store/article/view/45354<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjournal.fi%2Fstore%2Farticle%2Fview%2F45354&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004083919&sdata=RSOg8iKM2t1TizseU6vfD3wzD4nf8EPBNm5%2F94TYWBU%3D&reserved=0>



Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb Martin Straube via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

One small addition: On kaum?r? cf. P. Thieme, "Jungfrauengatte",
Zeitschrift f?r vergleichende Sprachforschung, 78 (1963); reprinted
in: Kleine Schriften, 2nd ed., Wiesbaden 1984, pp. 426ff.

Regards
Martin Straube

Zitat von Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

> Below are some additional indications that could be followed up in the
> course of your research.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> WS
>
>
>
> 1) See *Richard Schmidt* (*Beitr?ge zur indischen Erotik*. 3. Aufl. Berlin
> 1922: 645?649) with source quotes on marriage age and also marks of
> pubescence).
>
>
>
> 2) See moreover *Ram Gopal*, *India of Vedic Kalpas?tras*. Delhi 21983: 212
> with relevant quotes (p. 220, n. 59) also on the important term *nagnik?*
> (?naked?) in the context of the ideal marriage age:
>
> *nagnik?m* [=] *apr?ptastr?bh?v?m* *ayauvanaras?m* *upayaccheta* (?let him
> approach a *nagnik?* girl for intercourse in whom the sexual
> characteristics of a woman are not yet developed and in whom the menstrual
> fluid (*yauvanarasa*) has not yet emerged.?).
>
> *nagnik?*, defined as the ?best? (*?re??h?*) in the above passage of
> *M?navag?hyas?tra* as cited by Gopal, seems actually to refer to the
> absence of pubic hair (*aj?talomn?*) as also discussed, e.g., by
> Bha??an?r?ya?a on *Gobhilag?hyas?tra* 2.5.7. According to the latter?s
> testimony there were ?c?ryas who stipulated intercourse with prepubescent
> married girls lacking pubic hair, if these girls themselves desired so:
>
> *yady aj?talomny ev?t?va puru??bhog?rthin? sy?t, tath? sati, *[?] *maithuna?
> kartavyam ity eke ?c?ry? manyante*.
>
>
>
> 3) The Kashmirian *K??hakag?hyas?tra* determines the age of marriage of
> girls at 10, at the very latest at 12 years (*da?av?r?ika?** brahmacarya?
> kum?r???? dv?da?av?r?ika? v? *KGS 19.2), on which Devap?la comments:
> *var?ada?ak?d
> ?rdhva? **brahmacarye kum?r? **na** sth?payitavy? pitr? **?* *agaty? **v?
> dv?da?a **var???i n?tikrama??y?ni* ? (Devap?labh??ya *ad* 19.2. ||
>
>
>
> 4) *Manusm?ti*
>
>
> *tri??advar?o vahet kany?? h?dy?? dv?da?av?r?ik?m | trya??avar?o '??avar???
> v? dharme s?dati satvara?* || MDh? 9.94 ||
>
>
>
> ?A 30-year-old man should marry a charming girl of 12 years, or an
> 18-year-old, *a girl of 8 years* - *sooner, if* his fulfilling the Law
> would suffer.? (Olivelle 2005, p. 194).
>
>
>
> There is a wider range of evidence for an ideal marriage age for girls aged
> 8 (*a**??**avar**?**?*): To start with P?rvat?, ?iva?s wife, it is said
> that she was married at the age of eight (8), i.e. before puberty, the
> technical term for which is *gaur?* (significantly also used as an epithet
> for her):
>
>
>
> 5) Jayadratha?s *Haracaritacint**?**ma**?**i*
>
> *dev**?** himavata**?** putr**?** k**?**l**?** n**?**lotpalacchavi**?** | *
>
> *a**??**avar**?**?** tapoyukt**?** bhart**?**ra**?** pr**?**pa dh**?**rja*
> *?**im* || Hc 22.3 ||
>
> *s? kr??ant? pit?gehe ?ambhun? saha p?rvat?* |
>
> *d???v? d???v? vapu? ?y?ma? n?ha? gaur?ty alajjata* || Hc 22.4 ||
>
>
>
> 6) *gaur?* = *a??avar??* = prepubescent:
>
> *Brhadyamasmrti* (= *Par??arasm?ti* 7.4):
>
> *a??avar??** bhaved gaur? navavar?? ca rohi?? |*
>
> *da?avar?? bhavet kany?  ata ?rdhva? rajasval?* || YS 182v 3.21 ||
>
>
>
> 7) *A??avar??* marriage in the *Rev?kha??a* of the *V?yupur??a*:
>
> *pu?y?ham adya sa?j?tam aha? tvaddar?anotsuka? |*
>
> *kany?** mad?y? r?jendra hy a??avar?? vyaj?yata* || RKV 142.18 ||
> [?]
>
>
> *caturbhujo mama sutas tri?u loke?u vi?ruta? | tasyeya? d?yat?? kany?
> ?i?up?lasya bh??maka* || RKV 142.20 ||
>
>
>
> 8) *R?m?ya?a*
>
> S?t?, too, was married before the age of puberty as a ?*kaum?r?*?:
>
> *svaya? tu bh?ry?? kaum?r?? ciram adhyu?it?? sat?m |*
>
> *?ail??a iva m?? r?ma parebhyo d?tum icchasi* || R?m 2.27.8 (CE)||
>
>
>
> The G?t? Press translates from an emic insight point of view: ?who was
> married to you before puberty?.
>
> The commentaries *R?m?ya?a?iroma?i* und *Bh??a?a* on this passage (R?m
> 2.30,8) confirm *kaum?r?* as ?*kum?r?vasth?y?? eva viv?hit?*? (?married
> already in the period of life of a ten to twelve years old maiden?).
>
> *kum?r?* = 1. ?A young girl, one from 10 to 12 years old? (Apte)
>
>
> 9) A significant term for a a sexually mature, fully developed girl is
> *prau?h?* (cp., eg., *Bh?gavatapur??a *4.25.21 (*a-prau?h?* ? ?not yet
> fully developed?), or *??h?* (cp. *nava-??h?* ? ?having just attained
> puberty?, as in *Brahmavaivartap*., ch. 112).
>
> Am Sa., 5. Sept. 2020 um 03:08 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>
>> Hello Sundari,
>>
>>      I see these quotations from various texts embedded in the commentary
>> Tattvabodhin? on Bha??oji's Siddh?nta-Kaumud?, on rule 3168 of SK [p. 531,
>> edition of SK with Tattvabodhin?, edited by Wasudev Laxman Shastri
>> Panshikar, 7th edition, Nirnaya Sagara press, Mumbai, 1933]:  These are
>> comments on the word *gaur?:*
>>
>> "???? ???????????:?????????????????:" ... ??? ?????? ?..."????????? ?? ??
>> ????? ???????????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ? ???: ??????????: ??" ???
>> ?????????????? ????????????? ????????????????? ? ???? "???: ?????????:"
>> ??????? ?????? ??????????? ?
>>
>>    The end of the above passage uses the quote fromthe Brahm???a-Pur??a to
>> argue that the word *gaura? *used by Pata?jali in defining a Br?hma?a
>> does not refer to the skin color, but it has a Dharma??stric significance
>> as "the son of a woman who was given at her age of eight to a learned and
>> righteous Brahmin."  The same quote is used by the great N?ge?abha??a in
>> one of his commentaries. I have cited that in one of my publications, and I
>> have to hunt down that reference.  But it is exactly the same argument.
>>    On a personal level, the history of my own family shows the gradual
>> change from that old standard for the age of marriage.  My grandmother was
>> married when she was 9.  My two paternal aunts were married at the age of
>> 14 or 15, and since that was considered rather too late, they were married
>> to widowers.  My own mother was married at her age of 16.  This is an
>> interesting trajectory of history within a single family.
>>     With best wishes,
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:09 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>> The most straightforward statement in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra 3.3.1:
>>>
>>> A woman 12 years old has reached the age for legal transactions
>>> (vyavah?ra), as also
>>> a man 16 years old.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Sundari Johansen Hurwitt via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for sources that explore the age at which a girl
>>> traditionally becomes an adult woman (meaning, she transitions into defacto
>>> adulthood by the standards of the time) in Hindu culture, prior to the 19th
>>> century. I'm already aware of the Indian Penal Code setting the age of
>>> consent for marriage for girls at 10 years old in 1860, and the history
>>> following that.
>>>
>>> In particular I'm looking for primary and/or secondary literature that
>>> mention bodily processes, rites of passage, age, or other markers of that
>>> transition to adulthood.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>> -sundari
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Sundari Johansen Hurwitt
>>> sundari.johansen at gmail.com<mailto:sundari.johansen at gmail.com>
>>> sjohansen at ciis.edu<mailto:sjohansen at ciis.edu>
>>> she/her
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004083919&sdata=Nqz7dv1QUoAqDR5gSPebIkodsqEq6bdxpJVRimgwPfE%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinks.utexas.edu%2Frtyclf&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004093911&sdata=hutKtdb5iSz971QYFaSsVkY%2BNa2v5AP%2BZbhX6r%2FCKi4%3D&reserved=0>.                        <<
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004093911&sdata=wHtxg%2BTooJFZOKLOpN3%2BpnaCLI%2Bks7mZfQazEDfquMI%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7Cb397fea7c4ec4794decb08d8523cf138%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637349769004103906&sdata=FAlUxnm2f5orCgfzi5WQYO4Ed4Zi4kQw524Fm3R2Ty8%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>



--
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany


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From johnrobert.gardner at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 17:41:43 2020
From: johnrobert.gardner at gmail.com (Johnrobert Gardner)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 13:41:43 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Random Weekend Scrapbook Request: WSC 10, 1997, in Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcfXQ=AhQPWD4GSx7nkY2isk5KUL6nz=gTQNibyppXwpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9_Lu14MJ8KVPYVcChnnfNLFjDm=g3=r3ssLcN1gpJJWDyrgw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Dominik -

Anyone have contact information for Shivamurti Swamiji?  I've been to the
web site of Taralabalu Jagadguru Brihanmath (http://www.taralabalu.org/) where
he now is but there is no contact ink.  I've searched elsewhere on the web
as well ... Context of original request:

I was at WSC 10, myself being responsible for the then-new website of RV
and SB, http://vedavid.org/ -
January 3-9, 1997 was World Sanskrit Conference in Bangalore at Taralabalu
Kendra. One India paper (english, TImes of India?  India Herald?) paper ran
several photos on the front pages, especially of one of the main sessions.

I checked available online news archives but they only went back to 2001.
Anyon have way to get a PDF if you have it in your files? Those 7 days
only? Front page?

We are doing a history of computer studies with Vedic, and 1997 World
Sanskrit was a major set of breakthrough presentations on this.  Can I get
a copy (pdf, etc.) of any photos any of you might have of sessions (any)
please?  We need this in the next few days if possible.  We have a small
budget, but if you can get this to us in a few days, we can find a way to
renumerate you.

thanks in advance,
jr

John Robert Gardner, Ph.D., NREMTP, I/C, IAEMD
Clinical Coordinator
Beauport Ambulance Service; Gloucester, MA

"Love's the only engine of survival ... " - L. Cohen

Views and opinions expressed or implied in this email are independent of
National EMT Registry, Beauport Ambulance Service, and/or their clients and
partners.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 10:43 PM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, John, I do remember the interview, now that you mention it.  I was
> hustled over to a journalist with zero notice :-)
>
> I don't have any record of any of that, I'm afraid.  However, the
> Taralabalu Kendra might have something in their files.  Shivamurti Swamiji
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=shivamurthy+swamiji>, who hosted the
> WSC, is still the head of that place and he is available by email.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 at 16:43, Johnrobert Gardner <
> johnrobert.gardner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings -
>>
>> Working on an archival project related to origins of computer/internet
>> use with indology.  WSC 10 (Dominik, please see below) at Teralabalu Kendra
>> was a sort of presentation to society for the computer scholarship world.
>>
>> The press took lots of pictures, there was an opening invocation ceremony
>> (see image of program attached) from what I remember I think it was the
>> 10am Inaugural at the Vidhana Soudha?  It was not in the main Kendra
>> auditorium.
>>
>> An India paper had a front page with photo of the event (that one or
>> another), it was an english language paper - liek India Herald Tribune, or
>> such.  Does anyone have a scrap book copy of that photo/front page?  Cell
>> picture, whatever is fine.
>>
>> Dominik - do you remember at that conference there was a TV interview
>> they did with you and I in the main auditorium of Teralabalu Kendra? Do you
>> have any info you can share with me offline, of course?
>>
>> Thanks very much in advance ... and I hope all are staying safe and
>> healthy ...
>>
>> jr
>>
>> John Robert Gardner, Ph.D., NREMTP, I/C, IAEMD
>> Clinical Coordinator
>> Beauport Ambulance Service; Gloucester, MA
>>
>> "Love's the only engine of survival ... " - L. Cohen
>>
>> Views and opinions expressed or implied in this email are independent of
>> National EMT Registry, Beauport Ambulance Service, and/or their clients and
>> partners.
>>
>>> n change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>


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From c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 19:53:15 2020
From: c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com (Malcolm Keating)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 15:53:15 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement: Controversial Reasoning in Indian Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <f81efce4-8fb3-4948-a563-5e54ca628e34@Spark>
Message-ID: <03e044e4-2277-4fa3-b57f-579ff9616fac@Spark>

Dear all,
I am happy to announce the publication of?Controversial Reasoning in Indian Philosophy: Major Texts and Arguments on Arth?patti?(Bloomsbury Academic July 2020)

As editor, I was fortunate to work with a group of excellent scholars of Sanskrit and Indian philosophy who have contributed translations and essays to the volume: Nilanjan Das, Elisa Freschi, Alessandro Graheli, Andrew Ollett, Stephen Phillips, Mark Siderits, Anand Vaidya, and Kiyotaka Yoshimizu. Information about the volume can be found at the publisher?s website, and I include below the book blurb for your reference.

About the book:

Arth?patti?is a pervasive form of reasoning investigated by Indian philosophers in order to think about unseen causes and interpret ordinary and religious language. Its nature is a point of controversy among M?m??s?, Ny?ya, and Buddhist philosophers, yet, to date, it has received less attention than perception, inference, and testimony.

This collection presents a one-of-a-kind reference resource for understanding this form of reasoning studied in Indian philosophy. Assembling translations of central primary texts together with newly-commissioned essays on research topics, it features a significant introductory essay. Readable translations of Sanskrit works are accompanied by critical notes that introduce?arth?patti, offer historical context, and clarify the philosophical debates surrounding it.

Showing how?arth?patti?is used as a way to reason about the basic unseen causes driving language use, cause-and-effect relationships, as well as to interpret ambiguous or figurative texts, this book demonstrates the importance of this epistemic instrument in both contemporary Anglo-analytic and classical Indian epistemology, language, and logic.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/controversial-reasoning-in-indian-philosophy-9781350070479/

Best,
Malcolm

Malcolm Keating
Yale-NUS College | Assistant Professor | Humanities Division (Philosophy) |?malcolm.keating at yale-nus.edu.sg
Book Review Editor |?Philosophy East & West

Academic website:?http://www.malcolmkeating.com/


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 23:44:45 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 20 19:44:45 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Help_with_translation:_vitu=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o_eAQviA+MM20U3XTSkVdzE90OTBfif57sCw5LL1aBSzw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members:
What does vitu??ita mean in the following verse?
Does it just mean something like "greatly hurt" or can it mean "made
trunkless".

Bhagavat?-padya-pu?p??jal?-stotram verse 4

ayi ?ata-kha??a-vikha??ita-ru??a-vitu??ita-?u??a-gaj?dhipate
ripu-gaja-ga??a-vi??ra?a-ca??a-par?krama-?u??a-m?g?dhipate |
nija-bhuja-da??a-nip?tita-kha??a-vip?tita-mu??a-bha??dhipate
jaya jaya he mahi??sura-mardini ramya-kapardini ?aila-sute ||

Thanks,
Harry Spier


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From andra.kleb at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 04:32:50 2020
From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (Andrey Klebanov)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 20 13:32:50 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] History of Science in Early South Asia
In-Reply-To: <7e66178e-e32e-4ed9-924f-3da2d6bb955b@Spark>
Message-ID: <8d32af07-ca93-4947-9896-15c16d13b504@Spark>

Dear all,

I want to bring to your attention a workshop series organised by the working group on?History of Science in Early South Asia?under the aegis of the?Consortium for History of Science, Technology and Medicine. All meetings will be conducted online (via Zoom) and are open to interested academic public.

Please refer?here?(https://www.chstm.org/early-south-asia) for the description of the group and the schedule of the meetings. Please note that the times given on the website are all EST. Each meeting has a link to the ?WorldTimeBuddy,? a web application that will convert the time to your time zone.

Please use the field ?Request group membership? on the?above site?to register for the meetings (you will receive further updates, reading materials as well as invitations to the Zoom meetings of the group).

best,
Andrey


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From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 21:17:23 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 20 23:17:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic Sakhas
Message-ID: <c3831b58-391a-5a0f-0658-2c6895ccaa99@gmail.com>

Dear list,

does anybody know where one can order the following book?

Vedic Sakhas: Past, Present, Future (Harvard Oriental Series Opera 
Minora 9: Proceedings of the Fifth International Vedic Workshop, 
Bucharest 2011).

I know that it was distributed by "South Asian Books" until recently (?) 
but neither the publisher's homepage nor the shop on Amazon are 
accessible/there anymore...

Thanks and best regards

Tim



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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 14:06:38 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 20 16:06:38 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_[Tibeto-burman-linguistics]_The_=E2=80=9CLinguistic_Survey_of_India=E2=80=9D_as_a_free_digital_resource?=
In-Reply-To: <328C6864-2A06-476A-B669-7B62BAA2E085@ntu.edu.sg>
Message-ID: <CAKA8X40zHcractz7qhCWgGLeY6hG_ANyKcfexfPi-E24hnJUDw@mail.gmail.com>

the following may be of interest to some members

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Randy John LaPolla (Prof) <RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg>
Date: Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:27 PM
Subject: [Tibeto-burman-linguistics] The ?Linguistic Survey of India? as a
free digital resource
To: The Tibeto-Burman Discussion List Discussion List <
tibeto-burman-linguistics at listserv.linguistlist.org>


*From: *Anju Saxena <Anju.Saxena at lingfil.uu.se>
*Subject: **The ?Linguistic Survey of India? as a free digital resource*
*Date: *9 September 2020 at 7:48:00 PM SGT
*To: *Tibeto-burman-linguistics <
tibeto-burman-linguistics-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>


Dear Colleagues,

We are happy to announce that a digital version of Grierson?s and Konow?s
?Linguistic Survey of India? as a free structured and enriched digital
resource, is available online in several formats.

A short overview of the various LSI digital resources created in our
project, along with the links to the resources, is presented here:
https://spraakbanken.gu.se/blogg/index.php/2020/09/01/griersons-linguistic-survey-of-india-as-open-access-digital-data-resource-for-studying-languages-of-south-asia/



Best wishes,
Anju Saxena



-----

Anju Saxena
Professor of Linguistics
Dept. of Linguistics and Philology
Uppsala University
Sweden

--

Reminder: Any subscriber to the Tibeto-Burman Linguistics listserv can send
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Towards a sustainable earth: Print only when necessary. Thank you.
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-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From gleb.sharygin at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:33:22 2020
From: gleb.sharygin at gmail.com (Gleb Sharygin)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 20 20:33:22 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_The_last_volume_of_M._Cone's_"Dictionary_of_P=C4=81li"?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.49.1599667203.14295.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CALPiqisRVTNknYO5pFeZdx2VS5kagRgbQc1yXFczEMOpOVjTXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I wonder if someone might be able to look up or scan/take a picture of an
entry "*saccato*" in the last volume of M. Cone "Dictionary of P?li"
(2020), as the volume is not found in the libraries of Munich.

Kind regards,
Gleb Sharygin

PhD Candidate
LMU Munich


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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:41:22 2020
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 20 20:41:22 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09The_last_volume_of_M._Cone's_"Dictionary_of_P=C4=81li"?=
In-Reply-To: <CALPiqisRVTNknYO5pFeZdx2VS5kagRgbQc1yXFczEMOpOVjTXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4LBAbf1+LHAA7vne+_M1=A8UR+Wnv4-PZii+y6Zjm155g@mail.gmail.com>

Unless I am very much mistaken, the volume in which this would be found,
Vol 4, is yet to appear. VOl III (2020) ends with the word bhov?di(n).

JAS

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 8:34 PM Gleb Sharygin via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I wonder if someone might be able to look up or scan/take a picture of an
> entry "*saccato*" in the last volume of M. Cone "Dictionary of P?li"
> (2020), as the volume is not found in the libraries of Munich.
>
> Kind regards,
> Gleb Sharygin
>
> PhD Candidate
> LMU Munich
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk


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From gleb.sharygin at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 21:58:27 2020
From: gleb.sharygin at gmail.com (Gleb Sharygin)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 20 23:58:27 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09The_last_volume_of_M._Cone's_"Dictionary_of_P=C4=81li"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4LBAbf1+LHAA7vne+_M1=A8UR+Wnv4-PZii+y6Zjm155g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALPiqisXL_Obs6niY7ky+kcdoOCODfk-Q=O1XRRt0_jR0yoq3A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear members of the list,

Thanks to the clarification from Prof. Silk, I see that I mistakenly
assumed that that volume would include the S as well.

Kind regards,
Gleb Sharygin

??, 9 ????. 2020 ?. ? 20:41, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>:

> Unless I am very much mistaken, the volume in which this would be found,
> Vol 4, is yet to appear. VOl III (2020) ends with the word bhov?di(n).
>
> JAS
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 8:34 PM Gleb Sharygin via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> I wonder if someone might be able to look up or scan/take a picture of an
>> entry "*saccato*" in the last volume of M. Cone "Dictionary of P?li"
>> (2020), as the volume is not found in the libraries of Munich.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Gleb Sharygin
>>
>> PhD Candidate
>> LMU Munich
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
>
> copies of my publications may be found at
> https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 22:06:34 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 20 16:06:34 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09The_last_volume_of_M._Cone's_"Dictionary_of_P=C4=81li"?=
In-Reply-To: <CALPiqisRVTNknYO5pFeZdx2VS5kagRgbQc1yXFczEMOpOVjTXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfJAFv=dLejJpwQ8fjHXLMkU22EqxDTPnBbHwj6LmcNJA@mail.gmail.com>

It looks to me as if vol. 3 (2020) goes up to Bha.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 12:34, Gleb Sharygin via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I wonder if someone might be able to look up or scan/take a picture of an
> entry "*saccato*" in the last volume of M. Cone "Dictionary of P?li"
> (2020), as the volume is not found in the libraries of Munich.
>
> Kind regards,
> Gleb Sharygin
>
> PhD Candidate
> LMU Munich
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de  Thu Sep 10 07:09:07 2020
From: straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de (Martin Straube)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 09:09:07 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_last_volume_of_M._Cone's_"Dictionary_of_P=C4=81li"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CfJAFv=dLejJpwQ8fjHXLMkU22EqxDTPnBbHwj6LmcNJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200910090907.Horde.qp_HLZabKvY5jhg8SYpr9FA@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>


A dictionary of P?li. Pt. 3. P - Bh. - Bristol : Pali Text Society,  
2020. - 683 pages
ISBN 0-86013-529-2

see: http://kvk.bibliothek.kit.edu

As with all publications from the PTS the volume can be ordered here:

http://www.palitext.com

Best
Martin

-- 
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany






From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk  Thu Sep 10 07:54:33 2020
From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 07:54:33 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Recent publications from the Pali Text Society
Message-ID: <3C6E3B9D-7EF2-4A87-BBAB-58CB512DE445@bristol.ac.uk>

The query about Margaret Cone?s A Dictionary of P?li prompts me to post details of some recent publications from the PTS.

Margaret Cone, A Dictionary of P?li, part 3, p?bh (2020), viii, 683 pp. ?55.00. ISBN 978 0 86013 529 2
Informed by the progress made in the study of Pali and Middle Indian over the last century since the publication of T.W. Rhys Davids and W. Stede's Pali-English Dictionary in the early 1920s, Part 3 of Margaret Cone's A Dictionary of P?li represents a significant advance in Pali lexicography. Part 1 (a?kh) was published in 2001, part 2 (g?n) in 2010. The last part of the Dictionary, covering the letters m?h, is currently being prepared by Dr Martin Straube with the support of the PTS.

The Book of Pairs and its Commentary: A translation of the Yamaka and Yamakappakara?a??hakath?, translated by C. M. M. Shaw and L. S. Cousins;  vol. 1 (2018), xvi, 411 pp. ?35.50. ISBN 978 0 86013 513 5; vol. 2, (2020), vi, 456 pp. ?35.50. ISBN 978 0 86013 528 9
The first two volumes of a three-volume English translation of the Yamaka (the sixth book of the Abhidhamma Pi?aka) and its commentary. The third and final volume will be published in 2021. The translation has been prepared by Charles Shaw in collaboration with the late Lance Cousins, who has provided the translation of the commentary.

Thomas Oberlies, P?li Grammar: the language of the canonical texts of Therav?da Buddhism, 2 vols. (2019), 1290 pp. ?72.00. ISBN 978 0 86013 527 6
This grammar provides a detailed account of P?li phonology and morphology as found in the Therav?da canonical texts. Drawing on 150 years of scholarship, it provides a complete overview of word-classes and word-forms; all grammatical forms attested in canonical P?li have been recorded and explained by tracing them back to (Vedic) Sanskrit and providing references to comparable features in other Middle Indic languages.

Overcoming Doubts (Ka?kh?vitara??)?, vol. I, The Bhikkhu-P?timokkha Commentary, translated by K. R. Norman, Petra Kieffer-P?lz, and William Pruitt (2018), l, 628 pp. ?45.50. ISBN 978 0 86013 520 9
This is the first translation from Pali into a European language of the commentary on the list of rules (P?timokkha) for Buddhist monks (bhikkhu) and nuns (bhikkhun?) ascribed to Buddhaghosa by tradition. The first volume covers the commentary on the Bhikkhu-P?timokkha. It comprises an introduction (discussing the text, author, date, sources, etc.), a fully annotated translation and a glossary of important terms.

Those who become ?sponsoring' members of the Society (?25 for one year, ?100 for five years) receive a 20% discount on all publications and can choose one free (and post-free) volume each year; ?ordinary? members (?12 for one year, ?48 for five years) receive a 20% discount on publications but no free volume.

For details please visit http://www.palitext.com/ or contact the Pali Text Society <pts at palitext.com<mailto:pts at palitext.com>>.

--
Rupert Gethin
Professor of Buddhist Studies
University of Bristol
Department of Religion and Theology
3 Woodland Road ? Bristol BS8 1TB ? UK

http://www.bris.ac.uk/religion/

Phone: +44 117 928 8169
Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk<mailto:Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk>



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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Thu Sep 10 10:16:40 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 10:16:40 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
Message-ID: <7380ba6128804b9281cb110c500e926f@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear List members,


In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.


With kind regards, Herman Tieken


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de  Thu Sep 10 15:32:41 2020
From: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de (Julia Hegewald)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 17:32:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Director of non-European archaeology, Bonn (KAAK, DAI)
In-Reply-To: <CAKA8X40zHcractz7qhCWgGLeY6hG_ANyKcfexfPi-E24hnJUDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA69C827-98D2-4243-B88E-357F2AE8FB35@uni-bonn.de>

Dear colleagues and friends,

please find attached an advertisement for the directorship of the entire KAAK section of non-European archaeology in Bonn which is part of the German Archaeological Institute (DAI). Please circulate the advertisement.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Julia Hegewald.





Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald
Professor of Oriental Art History
Head of Department
University of Bonn
Institute of Oriental and Asian Studies (IOA)
Department of Asian and Islamic Art History
Adenauerallee 10
53113 Bonn
Germany

Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de
www.aik.uni-bonn.de
Tel. 0049-228-73 7213
Fax. 0049-228-73 4042



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From palaniappa at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 17:47:20 2020
From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 12:47:20 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <6FF923BB-E5A6-45E0-B50C-68A4B2509113.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6FF923BB-E5A6-45E0-B50C-68A4B2509113@aol.com>

Dear Herman,

 

Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi dated between 4th to 6th century BCE.

 

Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?

 

Regards,

Palaniappan

 

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

 

Dear List members,

 

In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.

 

With kind regards, Herman Tieken 

 

Herman Tieken

Stationsweg 58

2515 BP Den Haag

The Netherlands

00 31 (0)70 2208127

website: hermantieken.com

_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) 



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From palaniappa at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 17:50:23 2020
From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 12:50:23 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <6FF923BB-E5A6-45E0-B50C-68A4B2509113@aol.com>
Message-ID: <60CA9FEC-3442-41F6-805D-5F07DCD5E1B2@aol.com>

In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri seems to support Rajan?s dates.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo

 

Regards,

Palaniappan

 

From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

 

Dear Herman,

 

Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi dated between 4th to 6th century BCE.

 

Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?

 

Regards,

Palaniappan

 

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

 

Dear List members,

 

In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.

 

With kind regards, Herman Tieken 

 

Herman Tieken

Stationsweg 58

2515 BP Den Haag

The Netherlands

00 31 (0)70 2208127

website: hermantieken.com

_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) 



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From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr  Thu Sep 10 20:32:06 2020
From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 20 22:32:06 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <60CA9FEC-3442-41F6-805D-5F07DCD5E1B2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <280a0eae-a312-b000-d21b-d401ff9902df@wanadoo.fr>

Dear Colleagues,
There is also a review by Dilip K. Chakrabarti on K. Rajan's book:
"K. Rajan, Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi. Madurai:
Pandya Nadu Centre for Archaeological Research, 2015, XXII + 439 pp.,
`2290 (Hardback).
DOI: 10.1177/0376983617694685"
Best regards
Murugaiyan


Le 10/09/2020 ? 19:50, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY a ?crit?:
>
> In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri 
> seems to support Rajan?s dates.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo
>
> Regards,
>
> Palaniappan
>
> *From: *Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
> *To: *"Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology List 
> <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>
> Dear Herman,
>
> Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. 
> Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, 
> Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 
> 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi 
> dated between 4^th to 6^th century BCE.
>
> Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i 
> (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had 
> close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due 
> to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?
>
> Regards,
>
> Palaniappan
>
> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of 
> Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Reply-To: *"Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
> *To: *Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: *[INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>
> Dear List members,
>
> In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi 
> Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 
> 73-97)?Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on 
> Sri Lanka by traders?at least a century earlier than in "India" by 
> A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based 
> on the?radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is 
> dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is 
> if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon 
> (1998)?does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) 
> could not.
>
> With kind regards, Herman Tieken
>
> Herman Tieken
>
> Stationsweg 58
>
> 2515 BP Den Haag
>
> The Netherlands
>
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>
> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list 
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info 
> (messages to the list's managing committee) 
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options 
> or unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From ajay.rao at utoronto.ca  Fri Sep 11 01:02:59 2020
From: ajay.rao at utoronto.ca (Ajay Rao)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 01:02:59 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral fellowship in Jain Studies at the University of Toronto
In-Reply-To: <411533AE-79AF-4287-AFA4-9522D65B3D60@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <E1F1EDCD-D571-421A-A4BC-AA4D89E0FBBB@utoronto.ca>

Dear friends and colleagues,

Please see below the advertisement about a postdoctoral fellowship in Jain Studies at the University of Toronto. We are currently accepting applications for two separate postdoctoral fellowships at the University of Toronto; I will share information about the other fellowship in a subsequent message.

Applications are due on November 1, 2020. We would be grateful if you could forward this to anyone who may be interested.

Thank you,

Ajay Rao
Associate Professor
University of Toronto

The Department of Historical Studies at the University of Toronto invites applications for the Bhagavan Shitalnath Post-doctoral Fellowship in Jain Studies. The appointment will begin February 1, 2021. The post is for a period of 3 years.

Candidates working in any field of Jain Studies are encouraged to apply. The successful applicant will have demonstrated expertise in one or more research languages and be able to work with primary source archives.

The Department of Historical Studies is located at the University of Toronto Mississauga campus. The University of Toronto is home to a dynamic group of South Asia faculty and is dedicated to interdisciplinary and critical engagement with the languages, cultures, religions, and histories of South Asia. While the primary responsibility of the postdoctoral fellow is research, the fellow will also be involved in planning an annual Jain Studies Summer School and will help foster intellectual community at the University of Toronto Mississauga. The position also includes the teaching of one 12-week course per academic year. The salary will be $44,000, which includes the teaching stipend.

Applicants must have successfully defended their doctoral theses by the commencement of the post, and no earlier than 2016. Applicants cannot hold a tenure-track or continuing faculty position at a college or university. Applicants may be citizens of any country, and graduates from any university. Successful international applicants must meet all Canadian immigration requirements.

The application deadline is November 1, 2020. Shortlisted candidates will be interviewed via Zoom. Decisions will be made by January 2021.

For general inquiries, please contact historical.studies at utoronto.ca<mailto:historical.studies at utoronto.ca>.

All qualified applicants are encouraged to apply by sending their dossier (consisting of cover letter, CV, writing sample, 1-page research statement, and 1-page statement on teaching and community engagement at a public university) with a specification in the subject line of ?Jain Studies Post Doc? to historical.studies at utoronto.ca<mailto:historical.studies at utoronto.ca>. Arrangements should also be made for two letters of reference to be submitted separately to this email address.

The University of Toronto is strongly committed to diversity within its community and especially welcomes applications from visible minority group members, women, Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, members of sexual minority groups, and others who may contribute to the further diversification of ideas.



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From ajay.rao at utoronto.ca  Fri Sep 11 01:03:18 2020
From: ajay.rao at utoronto.ca (Ajay Rao)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 01:03:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral Fellowship in South Asian Studies at the University of Toronto
In-Reply-To: <8011F35B-0081-4E46-B771-0FF6C24A8616@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <FFA0B72D-86C4-44EB-84D3-2D7F2F2CF9AD@utoronto.ca>

Dear friends and colleagues,

Please see below the advertisement for a postdoctoral fellowship in South Asian Studies at the University of Toronto. This postdoctoral fellowship is a separate opportunity from the Jain Studies fellowship. Applications are due on November 1, 2020. Again, please forward this to anyone who may be interested.

Thank you,

Ajay Rao
Associate Professor
University of Toronto


The Centre for South Asian Civilizations at the University of Toronto invites applications for a postdoctoral fellow in South Asian Studies. The appointment will begin February 1, 2021. The post is for a period of 3 years.

Candidates working in any field of South Asian Studies are encouraged to apply. The successful applicant will have demonstrated expertise in one or more research languages and be able to work with primary source archives.

The Centre for South Asian Civilizations is located at the University of Toronto Mississauga campus. The University of Toronto is home to a dynamic group of South Asia faculty and is dedicated to interdisciplinary and critical engagement with the languages, cultures, religions, and histories of South Asia. While the primary responsibility of the postdoctoral fellow is research, the fellow will also be involved in Centre for South Asian Civilizations programming and will help foster intellectual community at the University of Toronto Mississauga. The position also includes the teaching of one 12-week course per academic year. The salary will be $44,000, which includes the teaching stipend.

Applicants must have successfully defended their doctoral theses by the commencement of the post, and no earlier than 2016. Applicants cannot hold a tenure-track or continuing faculty position at a college or university. Applicants may be citizens of any country, and graduates from any university. Successful international applicants must meet all Canadian immigration requirements.

The application deadline is November 1, 2020. Shortlisted candidates will be interviewed via Zoom. Decisions will be made by January 2021.

For general inquiries, please contact csac at utoronto.ca<mailto:csac at utoronto.ca>.

All qualified applicants are encouraged to apply by sending their dossier (consisting of cover letter, CV, writing sample, 1-page research statement, and 1-page statement on teaching and community engagement at a public university) with a specification in the subject line of ?Jain Studies Post Doc? to csac at utoronto.ca<mailto:csac at utoronto.ca>. Arrangements should also be made for two letters of reference to be submitted separately to this email address.

The University of Toronto is strongly committed to diversity within its community and especially welcomes applications from visible minority group members, women, Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, members of sexual minority groups, and others who may contribute to the further diversification of ideas.




-------------- next part --------------
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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Fri Sep 11 07:37:52 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 07:37:52 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <280a0eae-a312-b000-d21b-d401ff9902df@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <e3d12defbaeb4e0286859709bbc33eea@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear Murugaiyan,

Thank you very much for the reference.Unfortunately, the issue in question of the Indian Historical Review is not available here, not is possible to access the volume of 2017 electronically. Do you or someone else on the list happen to have a pdf?

Herman


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: a.murugaiyan <a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr>
Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2020 22:32:06
Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan; Tieken, H.J.H.; indology
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear Colleagues,
There is also a review by Dilip K. Chakrabarti on K. Rajan's book:
"K. Rajan, Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi. Madurai:
Pandya Nadu Centre for Archaeological Research, 2015, XXII + 439 pp.,
`2290 (Hardback).
DOI: 10.1177/0376983617694685"
Best regards
Murugaiyan


Le 10/09/2020 ? 19:50, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY a ?crit :
In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri seems to support Rajan?s dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo

Regards,
Palaniappan

From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com><mailto:palaniappa at aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl><mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear Herman,

Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi dated between 4th to 6th century BCE.

Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?

Regards,
Palaniappan

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info><mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl><mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka


Dear List members,



In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.



With kind regards, Herman Tieken


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 07:46:12 2020
From: marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com (Marco Franceschini)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 09:46:12 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <e3d12defbaeb4e0286859709bbc33eea@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <580992AD-12C3-4579-9D71-5E0B8BE22BB0@gmail.com>

Dear Herman,

here it is.

Best,

Marco
---

Marco Franceschini
???????????
Senior Assistant Professor
University of Bologna
Department of History and Cultures
marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it <mailto:marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it>
https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en <https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en>
http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini <http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini>
www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org <http://www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org/>
---




> Il giorno 11 set 2020, alle ore 09:37, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> ha scritto:
> 
> Dear Murugaiyan,
> Thank you very much for the reference.Unfortunately, the issue in question of the Indian Historical Review is not available here, not is possible to access the volume of 2017 electronically. Do you or someone else on the list happen to have a pdf?
> Herman
> 
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
> Van: a.murugaiyan <a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr <mailto:a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr>>
> Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2020 22:32:06
> Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan; Tieken, H.J.H.; indology
> Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>  
> Dear Colleagues,
> There is also a review by Dilip K. Chakrabarti on K. Rajan's book:
> "K. Rajan, Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi. Madurai:
> Pandya Nadu Centre for Archaeological Research, 2015, XXII + 439 pp.,
> `2290 (Hardback).
> DOI: 10.1177/0376983617694685"
> Best regards
> Murugaiyan
> 
> 
> Le 10/09/2020 ? 19:50, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY a ?crit :
>> In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri seems to support Rajan?s dates.
>>  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo>
>>  
>> Regards,
>> Palaniappan
>>  
>> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com> <mailto:palaniappa at aol.com>
>> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
>> To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> <mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>>  
>> Dear Herman,
>>  
>> Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi dated between 4th to 6th century BCE.
>>  
>> Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?
>>  
>> Regards,
>> Palaniappan
>>  
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
>> Reply-To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> <mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>>  
>> Dear List members,
>>  
>> In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.
>>  
>> With kind regards, Herman Tieken 
>>  
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Fri Sep 11 07:48:46 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 07:48:46 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <580992AD-12C3-4579-9D71-5E0B8BE22BB0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b556db5acf340089b7659ffd1bd12cc@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear Marco. Thank you very much.

Herman


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: Marco Franceschini <marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com>
Verzonden: vrijdag 11 september 2020 09:46:12
Aan: Tieken, H.J.H.
CC: indology
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear Herman,

here it is.

Best,

Marco
---

Marco Franceschini
???????????
Senior Assistant Professor
University of Bologna
Department of History and Cultures
marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it<mailto:marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it>
https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en
http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini
www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org<http://www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org>
---



Il giorno 11 set 2020, alle ore 09:37, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> ha scritto:

Dear Murugaiyan,
Thank you very much for the reference.Unfortunately, the issue in question of the Indian Historical Review is not available here, not is possible to access the volume of 2017 electronically. Do you or someone else on the list happen to have a pdf?
Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: a.murugaiyan <a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr<mailto:a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr>>
Verzonden: donderdag 10 september 2020 22:32:06
Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan; Tieken, H.J.H.; indology
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear Colleagues,
There is also a review by Dilip K. Chakrabarti on K. Rajan's book:
"K. Rajan, Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi. Madurai:
Pandya Nadu Centre for Archaeological Research, 2015, XXII + 439 pp.,
`2290 (Hardback).
DOI: 10.1177/0376983617694685"
Best regards
Murugaiyan


Le 10/09/2020 ? 19:50, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY a ?crit :
In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri seems to support Rajan?s dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo

Regards,
Palaniappan

From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com><mailto:palaniappa at aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl><mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear Herman,

Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi dated between 4th to 6th century BCE.

Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?

Regards,
Palaniappan

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info><mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl><mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info><mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

Dear List members,

In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 73-97) Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on Sri Lanka by traders at least a century earlier than in "India" by A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is based on the radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. Salomon (1998) does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk (1993) could not.

With kind regards, Herman Tieken

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr  Fri Sep 11 08:54:54 2020
From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 10:54:54 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <e3d12defbaeb4e0286859709bbc33eea@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <5a4c7c52-4d63-5be6-6eac-4d42a9b8a34c@wanadoo.fr>


Dear Herman,
Please find the pdf enclosed.
Best regards.
Murugaiyan

Le 11/09/2020 ? 09:37, Tieken, H.J.H. a ?crit?:
>
> Dear Murugaiyan,
>
> Thank you very much for the reference.Unfortunately, the issue in 
> question of the Indian Historical Review is not available here, not is 
> possible to access the volume of 2017 electronically. Do you or 
> someone else on the list happen to have a pdf?
>
> Herman
>
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Van:* a.murugaiyan <a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr>
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 10 september 2020 22:32:06
> *Aan:* Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan; Tieken, H.J.H.; indology
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
> Dear Colleagues,
> There is also a review by Dilip K. Chakrabarti on K. Rajan's book:
> "K. Rajan, Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi. 
> Madurai:
> Pandya Nadu Centre for Archaeological Research, 2015, XXII + 439 pp.,
> `2290 (Hardback).
> DOI: 10.1177/0376983617694685"
> Best regards
> Murugaiyan
>
>
> Le 10/09/2020 ? 19:50, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY a ?crit?:
>>
>> In this lecture at Harvard University in 2016, Prof. Nayanjot Lahiri 
>> seems to support Rajan?s dates.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6545ZZ2LCo
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Palaniappan
>>
>> *From: *Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant <palaniappa at aol.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:47 PM
>> *To: *"Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, Indology 
>> List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>>
>> Dear Herman,
>>
>> Have you looked at the discussion of Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in K. 
>> Rajan?s ?Early Writing System: A Journey from Graffiti to Brahmi?, 
>> Pandya Nadu Centre for Historical Research, Madurai, 2015? See pp. 
>> 404-405. Table 8.2 on p. 407 has six pot sherds with Tamil Brahmi 
>> dated between 4^th to 6^th century BCE.
>>
>> Rajan states on p. 400, ?The close observations of Dami?i 
>> (Tami?-Br?hm?) and Sri Lankan Br?hm? (Prakrit-Br?hm?) suggest they 
>> had close relations with each other in terms of paleography, probably 
>> due to geographical proximity, than the A?okan-Br?hm?.?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Palaniappan
>>
>> *From: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of 
>> Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Reply-To: *"Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>> *Date: *Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:17 AM
>> *To: *Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject: *[INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka
>>
>> Dear List members,
>>
>> In "Pasage to India? Anuradhapura and the Early Use of the Brahmi 
>> Script" (Cambridge Archaeological Journal 6/1 (1996), pp. 
>> 73-97)?Coningham et al. conclude that the Br?hm? script was used on 
>> Sri Lanka by traders?at least a century earlier than in "India" by 
>> A?oka. His dating of the inscribed pottery shreds in question is 
>> based on the?radiocarbon method. In fact, a large part of the article 
>> is dedicated to a discussion of this method. What I would like to 
>> know is if there has been a reaction to Coningham's conclusions. 
>> Salomon (1998)?does not discuss them and von Hin?ber (1990) and Falk 
>> (1993) could not.
>>
>> With kind regards, Herman Tieken
>>
>> Herman Tieken
>>
>> Stationsweg 58
>>
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>
>> The Netherlands
>>
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>
>> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list 
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info 
>> (messages to the list's managing committee) 
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options 
>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info  (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>



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From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Fri Sep 11 09:22:16 2020
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Harry Falk)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 11:22:16 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <580992AD-12C3-4579-9D71-5E0B8BE22BB0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44782.130.133.8.114.1599816136.webmail@webmail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

I quote:
- given half the chance, modern historians of ancient India will not stop
at anything!
- writing was known in historic India around 500 BC.
- orthodox ?comparative philologists? of the nineteenth century.
- strong smell of racism
- Birch leaf fragments have been identified in its Black-and-Red Ware
level dated around 800 BC [for nothing but writing]
- direct hard evidence
sancta simplitas!
The lamented and truly knowledgable dear friend Iravathan Mahadevan had
sent the book to me as well. We were fully d'accord regarding its nature.
Was he a racist?
Harry Falk







From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Fri Sep 11 11:49:05 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 11:49:05 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
Message-ID: <60f74fb11ac24e629a09491a7fb164d5@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear LIst Members,

In the concluding chapter of a book I have by now nearly finished about the A?oka inscriptions (I am not a historian, epigraphist or archeologist, but a sanskritist with an interest in, among other things, how the different inscriptions attributed to A?oka are related among each other) I cannot avoid dealing with the question of the age and origin of the Br?hm? script. It has not taken me long to find out that that is a controversial subject. Maybe, however, I will be able to take the sting out of it. One of the findings in my book will be that the inscriptions are a by-product the correspondence (through letters, that is, movable objects) with which the king (dev?na?piye piyadas? l?j?) communicated with his representatives in the realm. Even if the inscriptions are the earliest surviving specimen of writing in India, underlying them are letters on perishable material. As to the question how much older this practice of writing letters was, I may point to Rock Edict Series 14, which testifies to the existence of a "poetics" of diplomatic letters (see my article on the gu?a m?dhurya).

Herman



Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Sep 11 12:34:05 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 12:34:05 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <60f74fb11ac24e629a09491a7fb164d5@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB439635389969C49AB7769941A1240@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

>see my article on the gu?a m?dhurya

Dear Herman,

Please be so kind as to send a reference to this interesting article,
or, better, the article itself (or a link to it).

thanks in advance,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:49 AM
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka


Dear LIst Members,


In the concluding chapter of a book I have by now nearly finished about the A?oka inscriptions (I am not a historian, epigraphist or archeologist, but a sanskritist with an interest in, among other things, how the different inscriptions attributed to A?oka are related among each other) I cannot avoid dealing with the question of the age and origin of the Br?hm? script. It has not taken me long to find out that that is a controversial subject. Maybe, however, I will be able to take the sting out of it. One of the findings in my book will be that the inscriptions are a by-product the correspondence (through letters, that is, movable objects) with which the king (dev?na?piye piyadas? l?j?) communicated with his representatives in the realm. Even if the inscriptions are the earliest surviving specimen of writing in India, underlying them are letters on perishable material. As to the question how much older this practice of writing letters was, I may point to Rock Edict Series 14, which testifies to the existence of a "poetics" of diplomatic letters (see my article on the gu?a m?dhurya).


Herman



Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Fri Sep 11 12:41:44 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 12:41:44 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB439635389969C49AB7769941A1240@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2346338b933f42d4a6bb78951c9c4c4c@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

a pdf (of a photocopy) is on my website, under articles 2006.


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
Verzonden: vrijdag 11 september 2020 14:34:05
Aan: indology; Tieken, H.J.H.
Onderwerp: Re: Br?hm? in Sri Lanka

>see my article on the gu?a m?dhurya

Dear Herman,

Please be so kind as to send a reference to this interesting article,
or, better, the article itself (or a link to it).

thanks in advance,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:49 AM
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Br?hm? in Sri Lanka


Dear LIst Members,


In the concluding chapter of a book I have by now nearly finished about the A?oka inscriptions (I am not a historian, epigraphist or archeologist, but a sanskritist with an interest in, among other things, how the different inscriptions attributed to A?oka are related among each other) I cannot avoid dealing with the question of the age and origin of the Br?hm? script. It has not taken me long to find out that that is a controversial subject. Maybe, however, I will be able to take the sting out of it. One of the findings in my book will be that the inscriptions are a by-product the correspondence (through letters, that is, movable objects) with which the king (dev?na?piye piyadas? l?j?) communicated with his representatives in the realm. Even if the inscriptions are the earliest surviving specimen of writing in India, underlying them are letters on perishable material. As to the question how much older this practice of writing letters was, I may point to Rock Edict Series 14, which testifies to the existence of a "poetics" of diplomatic letters (see my article on the gu?a m?dhurya).


Herman



Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 17:01:31 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 11:01:31 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Br=C4=81hm=C4=AB_in_Sri_Lanka?=
In-Reply-To: <44782.130.133.8.114.1599816136.webmail@webmail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcpSjsNeiRor=f0dBhtwq-qoGihNAueFhFvvSLb_zjjug@mail.gmail.com>

>From my undergraduate coursework:

Sidebar: controversies about the Buddha

   - Reframing the date of the Buddha; Heinz Bechert "The Date of the
   Buddha Reconsidered
   <https://eclass.srv.ualberta.ca/pluginfile.php/5780381/mod_page/content/3/Date%20of%20the%20Buddha%20reconsidered%20vol10_art01_bechert.pdf>
   ."
      - Lance Cousins, "The Dating of the Historical Buddha: A Review
      <http://indology.info/papers/cousins/>"
   - The Canonical evidence (Buddha born in Lumbin?)
   - The Divy?vad?na evidence (A?oka visited birthplace of the Buddha in
   Lumbin?)
   - (Re)discovery of Lumbini: Hultszch
   <https://archive.org/stream/InscriptionsOfAsoka.NewEditionByE.Hultzsch/HultzschCorpusAsokaSearchable#page/n24/mode/1up>
   pp. xxii and 164.
   - Lumbini at Google maps
   <https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Asoka+Piller/@27.46968,83.275522,299m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x32a9aa11b336717c!8m2!3d27.469654!4d83.2756296!6m1!1e1>
   .
   - Coningham 2013, "The earliest Buddhist shrine"
   <https://eclass.srv.ualberta.ca/pluginfile.php/5780381/mod_page/content/3/the-earliest-buddhist-shrine-excavating-the-birthplace-of-the-buddha-lumbini-nepal.pdf>
   .
      - Article about the 2013 finds, with Julia Shaw's response
      <http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131125-buddha-birth-nepal-archaeology-science-lumbini-religion-history/>
      .
      - Gombrich 2013, "Recent discovery of "earliest Buddhist shrine? a
      sham?
      <http://tricycle.org/trikedaily/recent-discovery-earliest-buddhist-shrine-sham/>"



After studying Coningham 2013 carefully and the responses from Shaw and
Gombrich (which are informal but clear and damning), I no longer attend to
Coningham's publications.

Best,
Dominik



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 03:23, Harry Falk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I quote:
> - given half the chance, modern historians of ancient India will not stop
> at anything!
> - writing was known in historic India around 500 BC.
> - orthodox ?comparative philologists? of the nineteenth century.
> - strong smell of racism
> - Birch leaf fragments have been identified in its Black-and-Red Ware
> level dated around 800 BC [for nothing but writing]
> - direct hard evidence
> sancta simplitas!
> The lamented and truly knowledgable dear friend Iravathan Mahadevan had
> sent the book to me as well. We were fully d'accord regarding its nature.
> Was he a racist?
> Harry Falk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From ajay.rao at utoronto.ca  Fri Sep 11 18:34:55 2020
From: ajay.rao at utoronto.ca (Ajay Rao)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 18:34:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral Fellowship in South Asian Studies at the University of Toronto
In-Reply-To: <FFA0B72D-86C4-44EB-84D3-2D7F2F2CF9AD@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <5A02BA20-09BE-4D13-B231-864F2D3E5326@utoronto.ca>

Dear friends and colleagues,

Please note that there was a slight error in the South Asian studies postdoctoral fellowship advertisement I sent out earlier. Applications for the South Asian Studies postdoctoral fellowship should include ?South Asian Studies Post Doc? in the subject heading and should be sent by email to csac at utoronto.ca<mailto:csac at utoronto.ca>.

Thank you,

Ajay Rao
Associate Professor
University of Toronto



The Centre for South Asian Civilizations at the University of Toronto invites applications for a postdoctoral fellow in South Asian Studies. The appointment will begin February 1, 2021. The post is for a period of 3 years.

Candidates working in any field of South Asian Studies are encouraged to apply. The successful applicant will have demonstrated expertise in one or more research languages and be able to work with primary source archives.

The Centre for South Asian Civilizations is located at the University of Toronto Mississauga campus. The University of Toronto is home to a dynamic group of South Asia faculty and is dedicated to interdisciplinary and critical engagement with the languages, cultures, religions, and histories of South Asia. While the primary responsibility of the postdoctoral fellow is research, the fellow will also be involved in Centre for South Asian Civilizations programming and will help foster intellectual community at the University of Toronto Mississauga. The position also includes the teaching of one 12-week course per academic year. The salary will be $44,000, which includes the teaching stipend.

Applicants must have successfully defended their doctoral theses by the commencement of the post, and no earlier than 2016. Applicants cannot hold a tenure-track or continuing faculty position at a college or university. Applicants may be citizens of any country, and graduates from any university. Successful international applicants must meet all Canadian immigration requirements.

The application deadline is November 1, 2020. Shortlisted candidates will be interviewed via Zoom. Decisions will be made by January 2021.

For general inquiries, please contact csac at utoronto.ca<mailto:csac at utoronto.ca>.

All qualified applicants are encouraged to apply by sending their dossier (consisting of cover letter, CV, writing sample, 1-page research statement, and 1-page statement on teaching and community engagement at a public university) with a specification in the subject line of ?South Asian Studies Post Doc? to csac at utoronto.ca<mailto:csac at utoronto.ca>. Arrangements should also be made for two letters of reference to be submitted separately to this email address.

The University of Toronto is strongly committed to diversity within its community and especially welcomes applications from visible minority group members, women, Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, members of sexual minority groups, and others who may contribute to the further diversification of ideas.




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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 18:35:01 2020
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 18:35:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] first recorded use of cannabis as medicine in India?
In-Reply-To: <2113608118.1189828.1599849301513.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2113608118.1189828.1599849301513@mail.yahoo.com>

A friend passed on this question. Perhaps someone can point me to a citation.

"I'm looking for the date which I can reasonably claim as being the first recorded use?of cannabis as medicine in India."
Best,
Dean


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 18:57:11 2020
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 18:57:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] first recorded use of cannabis as medicine in India?
In-Reply-To: <CAGAFCHZnPjSa+0Udbygb_XeJ82c+ZhkODhnfWMQccf+tjTwHHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55853440.1207943.1599850631334@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the quick reply -- and to Dominik for writing one of the papers. :-)
Best,
Dean

 
  Meulenbeld, G. Jan. 1989. ?The Search for Clues to the Chronology of Sanskrit Medical Texts, as Illustrated by the History of Bha?g? (Cannabis Sativa Linn.).? Studien Zur Indologie Und Iranistik. 15: 59?70.
  Wujastyk, Dominik. 2002. ?Cannabis in Traditional Indian Herbal Medicine.? In Ayurveda at the Crossroads of Care and Cure: Proceedings of the Indo-European Seminar on Ayurveda Held at Arr?bida, Portugal, in November 2001, edited by A. Salema, 45? 73. Lisbon: Universidade Nova de Lisboa.
 

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:35 PM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

A friend passed on this question. Perhaps someone can point me to a citation.

"I'm looking for the date which I can reasonably claim as being the first recorded use?of cannabis as medicine in India."
Best,
Dean
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



-- 

Eric Gurevitch

PhD Candidate, South Asian Languages?and Civilizations and

Committee?on?Conceptual?and Historical?Studies of Science

University of Chicago

gurevitch at uchicago.edu
  


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 20:06:42 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 20 14:06:42 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] first recorded use of cannabis as medicine in India?
In-Reply-To: <55853440.1207943.1599850631334@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc46bsQ2F+w8wvDCfjfjF_cspi1oVPOUpp6vtc4xvU1kg@mail.gmail.com>

To make life easier:

   - wujastyk 2002
   <https://www.dropbox.com/s/medvqgkyv1urtzp/2002%20cannabis.pdf?dl=0>
   - meulenbeld 1989
   <https://www.dropbox.com/s/bczx00wkzoljd4p/1989%20SII%20Search%20for%20clues%20-%20cannabis.pdf?dl=0>

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 12:57, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thanks for the quick reply -- and to Dominik for writing one of the
> papers. :-)
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
> Meulenbeld, G. Jan. 1989. ?The Search for Clues to the Chronology of
> Sanskrit Medical Texts, as Illustrated by the History of Bha?g? (Cannabis
> Sativa Linn.).? *Studien Zur Indologie Und Iranistik.* 15: 59?70.
>
> Wujastyk, Dominik. 2002. ?Cannabis in Traditional Indian Herbal Medicine.?
> In *Ayurveda at the Crossroads of Care and Cure: Proceedings of the
> Indo-European Seminar on Ayurveda Held at Arr?bida, Portugal, in November
> 2001*, edited by A. Salema, 45? 73. Lisbon: Universidade Nova de Lisboa.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:35 PM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> A friend passed on this question. Perhaps someone can point me to a
> citation.
>
> "I'm looking for the date which I can reasonably claim as being the first
> recorded use of cannabis as medicine in India."
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Eric Gurevitch
>
> PhD Candidate, South Asian Languages and Civilizations and
>
> Committee on Conceptual and Historical Studies of Science
>
> University of Chicago
>
> gurevitch at uchicago.edu
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 06:52:09 2020
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 12:22:09 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Malavikagnimitra PDF request
Message-ID: <CAODNnZjgXTwgbDOV8e0usmnTQDs7W72oLKD=0wBH_j3940aAAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all

I want this particular edition. I will be grateful to anyone who can share
this.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/malvikagnimitra-of-kalidasa-with-elucidating-extracts-from-the-commentaries-of-katayavema-and-nilakantha-edited-with-a-literal-english-translation-a-critical-introduction-copious-notes-a-comprehensive-vocabulary-and-several-useful-appendices-by-charu-deva-shastri-and-bb-shastri-kavya-tirtha-with-a-hindi-version-of-the-stanzas/oclc/560413314&referer=brief_results

Thanks


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 13 10:22:02 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 10:22:02 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB439642D6DABFD2D4634BB48DA1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear friends,

It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.
When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)

Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 12:41:00 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 18:11:00 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB439642D6DABFD2D4634BB48DA1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZe9=UN-TEYeWCmwRU=9wYrw8za94fGk+Y0XCDhvLODDg@mail.gmail.com>

Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their incarnations
as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this theme.

Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative in
Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course
> provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to
> them.
> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
> case.
> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those
> killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this
> particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in
> V?lmiki??)
>
> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
> scholarship on this subject.
>
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Sun Sep 13 13:24:16 2020
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 13:24:16 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB439642D6DABFD2D4634BB48DA1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C9B94464-511C-4502-A28F-AF799A5E47ED@austin.utexas.edu>

Dear Matthew,

Noel Sheth, ?Salvation through Hatred.? ABORI 80:1, 167-181, deals with two R?ma texts, in addition to the Bh?gavata.

Best, Don

On Sep 13, 2020, at 5:22 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

?
Dear friends,

It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.
When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)

Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<


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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Sun Sep 13 13:24:51 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 13:24:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] email address
Message-ID: <93dc73905a8a405d8c144433da3c93c3@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear List Members,


I am looking for the email address of Prof. Dilip K. Chakrabarti (or is he member of this list?).


Herman


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 13:33:05 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 19:03:05 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZe9=UN-TEYeWCmwRU=9wYrw8za94fGk+Y0XCDhvLODDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZTb3j7MaJuteeT3RU_wLN0S=1r4S0VMq_QbT+WCJoowA@mail.gmail.com>

This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha
Bhakti.

This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga and
dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in Gita).

Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic
comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on
the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and
synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their incarnations
> as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this theme.
>
> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative
> in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
>> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of
>> course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence
>> done to them.
>> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
>> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
>> case.
>> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those
>> killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this
>> particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in
>> V?lmiki??)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
>> scholarship on this subject.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


-------------- next part --------------
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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 13:37:46 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 19:07:46 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZTb3j7MaJuteeT3RU_wLN0S=1r4S0VMq_QbT+WCJoowA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZdDTe7-yN8WYjxr4kfgpxgTLXMDapRUo1ZDox7pVau2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Some contemporary studies on the theme of Hate as a kind of Love :

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.01940/full#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20love%20and%20hate%20are,psyches%20(Alford%2C%202005)
.

In Jung, we have " Love as a Shadow of Hate" "Love -hate binary"  etc.,

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:03 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha
> Bhakti.
>
> This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga
> and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in
> Gita).
>
> Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic
> comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on
> the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and
> synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their
>> incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this
>> theme.
>>
>> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative
>> in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear friends,
>>>
>>> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
>>> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of
>>> course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence
>>> done to them.
>>> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
>>> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
>>> case.
>>> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those
>>> killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this
>>> particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in
>>> V?lmiki??)
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
>>> scholarship on this subject.
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 13 13:46:46 2020
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 15:46:46 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZdDTe7-yN8WYjxr4kfgpxgTLXMDapRUo1ZDox7pVau2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFshtuVp0LbxrcR8hKDBshqOb9tkgV+Ye5i8ZO=fv39sdw@mail.gmail.com>

Any reflexions of the theme in the Buddhist tradition?

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Wolny
od wirus?w. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


niedz., 13 wrz 2020 o 15:38 Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Some contemporary studies on the theme of Hate as a kind of Love :
>
>
> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.01940/full#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20love%20and%20hate%20are,psyches%20(Alford%2C%202005)
> .
>
> In Jung, we have " Love as a Shadow of Hate" "Love -hate binary"  etc.,
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:03 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha
>> Bhakti.
>>
>> This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga
>> and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in
>> Gita).
>>
>> Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic
>> comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on
>> the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and
>> synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their
>>> incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this
>>> theme.
>>>
>>> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative
>>> in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>
>>>> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
>>>> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of
>>>> course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence
>>>> done to them.
>>>> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
>>>> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
>>>> case.
>>>> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all
>>>> those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus
>>>> on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than
>>>> in V?lmiki??)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
>>>> scholarship on this subject.
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>>
>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 13 13:59:35 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 13:59:35 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFshtuVp0LbxrcR8hKDBshqOb9tkgV+Ye5i8ZO=fv39sdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB439698FDD44F53BAAD42BF37A1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Artur,

There is indeed a large literature on the subject.
Michael Jerryson's article, "Buddhism, War, and Violence," ch. 22 in The Oxford Handbook of Buddhist Ethics,
provides a useful overview with a good bibliography.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:46 AM
To: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
Cc: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>; indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by R?ma

Any reflexions of the theme in the Buddhist tradition?

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niedz., 13 wrz 2020 o 15:38 Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> napisa?(a):
Some contemporary studies on the theme of Hate as a kind of Love :

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.01940/full#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20love%20and%20hate%20are,psyches%20(Alford%2C%202005).

In Jung, we have " Love as a Shadow of Hate" "Love -hate binary"  etc.,

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:03 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com<mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha Bhakti.

This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in Gita).

Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on  the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com<mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this theme.

Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear friends,

It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.
When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)

Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


--
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.





--
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.





--
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.



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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Sun Sep 13 16:29:53 2020
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 09:29:53 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZTb3j7MaJuteeT3RU_wLN0S=1r4S0VMq_QbT+WCJoowA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <502BE5F2-4496-4DCB-9141-89349005081B@berkeley.edu>

One has to distinguish between  figures who are cursed, for one reason or another to take on the form of a r?k?asa. One example that Matthew raises is that of Vir?dha who was really the gandharva Tumburu who was cursed by Vai?rana?a to suffer this transformation. But when propitiated,  Vai?rava?a relented to the extent of allowing him to be restored to his original state after being killed by R?ma. VR 3. 3) Same deal with Kabandha (VR 3.67). Indeed this is a common trope in the literature. But this is quite different from the case of those who are actual r?k?asas by birth ( The origin and  genealogy of the r?k?asas is laid out in detail in the first half of V?lm?ki?s Uttarak???a.)

The idea that  ?genetic? r?k?asas either seek  or attain death at R?ma?s hands as a means of salvation is utterly alien to V?lm?ki?s poem. It develops, along with the whole concept of dve?abhakti in the sectarian pur??as (cf. the tale of P?tan? in the Bh.P.) and is a staple of the ?v?stava? level of interpretation of many of the commentators of the V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a.

Best to all.
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409

> On Sep 13, 2020, at 6:33 AM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha Bhakti. 
> 
> This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in Gita). 
> 
> Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on  the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme. 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this theme. 
> 
> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.     
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear friends,
> 
> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma 
> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.
> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 13 19:43:26 2020
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 21:43:26 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:__fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFsf0i3Yx03Mkped3P8S+4cn8OrdvaSXZ2aW-h9Vf2_s9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsu41wgF7UHjO=jGgFn6VNaHiLbpnsu1F-7q-d3ZPSMdg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
Od: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
Date: niedz., 13 wrz 2020 o 21:15
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by R?ma
To: Robert Goldman <rpg at berkeley.edu>


R?k?asa (and other similarly frightening terms)  appearing in numerous
texts - is it not a leftover of formal nomenclature created and used to
justify dehumanization of selected groups of political adversaries?

Artur


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niedz., 13 wrz 2020 o 18:30 Robert Goldman via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> One has to distinguish between  figures who are *cursed*, for one reason
> or another to take on the form of a r?k?asa. One example that Matthew
> raises is that of Vir?dha who was really the gandharva Tumburu who was
> cursed by Vai?rana?a to suffer this transformation. But when propitiated,
>  Vai?rava?a relented to the extent of allowing him to be restored to his
> original state after being killed by R?ma. VR 3. 3) Same deal with Kabandha
> (VR 3.67). Indeed this is a common trope in the literature. But this is
> quite different from the case of those who are *actual* r?k?asas by birth
> ( The origin and  genealogy of the r?k?asas is laid out in detail in the
> first half of V?lm?ki?s Uttarak???a.)
>
> The idea that  ?genetic? r?k?asas either seek  or attain death at R?ma?s
> hands as a means of salvation is utterly alien to V?lm?ki?s poem. It
> develops, along with the whole concept of dve?abhakti in the sectarian
> pur??as (cf. the tale of P?tan? in the Bh.P.) and is a staple of the
> ?v?stava? level of interpretation of many of the commentators of the
> V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a.
>
> Best to all.
> Dr. R. P.  Goldman
> Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South
> and Southeast Asian Studies
> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
> The University of California at Berkeley
> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
> Tel: 510-642-4089
> Fax: 510-642-2409
>
> On Sep 13, 2020, at 6:33 AM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> This theme is also connected to the theme of Vaira Bhakti or Vidvesha
> Bhakti.
>
> This paradoxical concept of Vaira Bhakti is rooted in the idea of raaga
> and dvesha being the two forms of the same thing called sanga (e.g., in
> Gita).
>
> Thus intra-Indic historical , global historical, intra-Indic
> comparative/cross-cultural , global comparative/cross-cultural  studies on
> the theme of hate as a form of love also may provide diachronic and
> synchronic clues to the development / occurrence of the theme.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 6:11 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Studies on the history of the theme of Jaya -Vijaya and their
>> incarnations as demons could be one route to tracing the history of this
>> theme.
>>
>> Studies on the historical background of the occurrence of this narrative
>> in Bhagavata Purana may provide clues.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 3:52 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear friends,
>>>
>>> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
>>> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of
>>> course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence
>>> done to them.
>>> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
>>> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
>>> case.
>>> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those
>>> killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this
>>> particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in
>>> V?lmiki??)
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
>>> scholarship on this subject.
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>

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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 13 20:23:01 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 20:23:01 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB439642D6DABFD2D4634BB48DA1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB439643E97118D05DE0056A52A1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks to those who referred me to Noel Sheth's article, which corresponds most closely to what I was looking for.

And thanks to others for your responses as well.

best to all,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:22 AM
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by R?ma

Dear friends,

It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.
When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)

Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Sun Sep 13 20:24:29 2020
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 10:24:29 -1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a
supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our
kaliyuga=

Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK
Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki
R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and
standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two
of you!

?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?

?????? ????? ????? ????????????????






-------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
& Chair
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i, M?noa
461 Spalding


It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the
individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a
relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and
its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or
demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for
the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and
that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have
experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their
time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of
someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, *Playing and Reality*


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From kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu  Sun Sep 13 20:29:01 2020
From: kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu (McGrath, Kevin)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 20:29:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR07MB54094566349866E27FFDFF988D220@BL0PR07MB5409.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

  Yes ... great Congratulation to them both!

    Kevin.






________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 4:24 PM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize

Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our kaliyuga=

Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two of you!


?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?

?????? ????? ????? ????????????????






-------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
& Chair
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i, M?noa
461 Spalding


It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, Playing and Reality


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From aleksandar.uskokov at yale.edu  Sun Sep 13 20:33:10 2020
From: aleksandar.uskokov at yale.edu (Uskokov, Aleksandar)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 20:33:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR08MB3620046BDD00B68E53C685C6E7220@BN6PR08MB3620.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Indeed, congratulations to them both -- a well-deserved award for an incredible achievement!

Best wishes
Aleksandar


Aleksandar Uskokov

Lector in Sanskrit

South Asian Studies Council, Yale University

203-432-1972 | aleksandar.uskokov at yale.edu

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 4:24 PM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize

Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our kaliyuga=

Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two of you!


?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?

?????? ????? ????? ????????????????






-------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
& Chair
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i, M?noa
461 Spalding


It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, Playing and Reality


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Sep 13 22:39:46 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 15:39:46 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdiy+9e7pVGPq_3ZmDkNHMwgX2Oh7Mn-K1GKGT9UiZYBw@mail.gmail.com>

Well deserved prize.  Congratulations to Bob and Sally.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 1:25 PM Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a
> supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our
> kaliyuga=
>
> Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK
> Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki
> R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and
> standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two
> of you!
>
> ?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?
>
> ?????? ????? ????? ????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
> & Chair
> Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i, M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
>
> It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the
> individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a
> relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and
> its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or
> demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for
> the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and
> that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have
> experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their
> time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of
> someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, *Playing and Reality*
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 22:40:57 2020
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 22:40:57 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB439643E97118D05DE0056A52A1220@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1935629155.1715026.1600036857534@mail.yahoo.com>

 Could you please repost (or post) the info on Noel Sheth's article? I may have missed it.

Thanks,
Dean

    On Monday, September 14, 2020, 1:53:45 AM GMT+5:30, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:  
 
 Thanks to those who referred me to Noel Sheth's article, which corresponds most closely to what I was looking for.
And thanks to others for your responses as well.
best to all,Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:22 AM
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by R?ma?Dear friends,
It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma 
are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to them.
The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every case.When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in V?lmiki??)

Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to scholarship on this subject.
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
  


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From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au  Sun Sep 13 22:48:34 2020
From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 20 22:48:34 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ME1PR01MB0914DBA970927F0EA51178DCDA220@ME1PR01MB0914.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Congratulations to Bob and Sally.  Absolutely well deserved.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 6:24 AM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize

Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our kaliyuga=

Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two of you!


?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?

?????? ????? ????? ????????????????






-------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
& Chair
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i, M?noa
461 Spalding


It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, Playing and Reality


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 03:34:04 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 09:04:04 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_fate_of_demons_slain_by_R=C4=81ma?=
In-Reply-To: <1935629155.1715026.1600036857534@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYc5kQ1KHxOPeinNNquWYrx3brVz1cJPqdEo6-NLrhkcg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41694583

SALVATION THROUGH HATRED
Noel Sheth
Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute
Vol. 80, No. 1/4 (1999) <https://www.jstor.org/stable/i40079529>, pp.
167-181 (15 pages)
Published By: Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 4:11 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Could you please repost (or post) the info on Noel Sheth's article? I may
> have missed it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dean
>
> On Monday, September 14, 2020, 1:53:45 AM GMT+5:30, Matthew Kapstein via
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks to those who referred me to Noel Sheth's article, which corresponds
> most closely to what I was looking for.
>
> And thanks to others for your responses as well.
>
> best to all,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:22 AM
> *To:* indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] fate of demons slain by R?ma
>
> Dear friends,
>
> It is often said that the demons killed by R?ma
> are in fact liberated or dispatched to favorable rebirths, which of course
> provides a needed ethical fig-leaf with which to gloss the violence done to
> them.
> The notion that the demon is in fact freed by R?ma is, so far as I am
> aware, explicit in some cases (e.g. the story of Vir?dha), but not in every
> case.
> When and where does it become a universal principle applied to all those
> killed? And are there any studies that you can recommend that focus on this
> particular theme? (which is perhaps more systematic in Kampan than in
> V?lmiki??)
>
> Thanks in advance for any references you may be able to provide to
> scholarship on this subject.
>
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Sep 14 09:56:15 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 11:56:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Entgelt
Message-ID: <CAETY2G2FRYQdAwJ8iiqYjSKaoyy59F12Ag=Gjcs1D1GaY-rGtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Guten Tag,

ich wei? nicht, an wen ich meine Frage richten sollte, aber ich warte noch
auf das Entgelt f?r die zwei Kurse, die ich im Sommersemester 2020 gegeben
habe. Ich ziehe bald nach England, und das Extrageld w?re sehr n?tzlich!
Vielen Dank.

Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
Victor

Dr Victor B. D'Avella
Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit
Faculty of Oriental Studies
University of Oxford


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Sep 14 10:07:55 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 12:07:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw:  Entgelt
In-Reply-To: <2012277603.1838113.1600077857892@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G1eZG+7TNFP48h2RSPVTucYwQhENvgHAbhg_Db3NXaE5A@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the misdirected email! Please ignore; the Indology department's
email address in HH is very similar.

Victor

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 12:04 PM George Pervushin <gpervushin at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Hello, Victor!
>
> I guess you've sent this letter to the list by mistake.
> So I decided to let you know in case you haven't noticed it yet.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
> ----- Forwarded message -----
> *From:* victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *To:* Berliner, Merle <merle.berliner at verw.uni-hamburg.de>; Indology <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Monday, 14 September 2020, 11:57:10 am GMT+2
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Entgelt
>
> Guten Tag,
>
> ich wei? nicht, an wen ich meine Frage richten sollte, aber ich warte noch
> auf das Entgelt f?r die zwei Kurse, die ich im Sommersemester 2020 gegeben
> habe. Ich ziehe bald nach England, und das Extrageld w?re sehr n?tzlich!
> Vielen Dank.
>
> Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
> Victor
>
> Dr Victor B. D'Avella
> Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit
> Faculty of Oriental Studies
> University of Oxford
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 14 13:22:50 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 15:22:50 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Congratulations to SJS & RP Goldman, AK Ramanujan Book Prize
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVRm6dafsyvgeAvm-yjv=wu_3Y8kkgoWZRFSNXazFQp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbqF-NTwdUBruBiS8eL0gcywe_2WGhWLWnrrbki_Vvp6rg@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations, Bob and Sally!

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Studies

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


niedz., 13 wrz 2020 o 22:25 Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Dear Friends, I may be late to the party, but I just saw news of a
> supremely well-deserved honor and a welcome piece of good news in our
> kaliyuga=
>
> Sally J. Sutherland Goldman and Robert P. Goldman have been awarded the AK
> Ramanujan book prize for their annotated translation of the V?lm?ki
> R?m?ya?a's final volume, Uttarak???a, the conclusion of their legendary and
> standard-setting R?m?ya?a translation project. Congratulations to the two
> of you!
>
> ?????????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?
>
> ?????? ????? ????? ????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
> & Chair
> Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i, M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
>
> It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the
> individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a
> relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and
> its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or
> demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for
> the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and
> that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have
> experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their
> time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of
> someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, *Playing and Reality*
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From beitel at email.gwu.edu  Mon Sep 14 18:20:10 2020
From: beitel at email.gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 13:20:10 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request
In-Reply-To: <75B4A6FA-B18E-41FA-80EA-A612F51D58F9@email.gwu.edu>
Message-ID: <61A42547-06AF-40CC-9B3C-524C5727D354@email.gwu.edu>


Dear COlleages,

Would any of you have a copy of Jan Gonda?s article ?Loka? in his book Change and Continuity in Indian Religion? I need to read it, and would greatly appreciate a copy.

Very best
Alf Hiltebeitel 
Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 2, 2020, at 6:36 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel <beitel at email.gwu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Very good of you. Alf
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Shankar Nair <shankaranair at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Dear Prof. Hiltebeitel,
>> 
>> Please see attached. I hope it helps, and that you and yours are safe and well during these unusual times.
>> 
>> All best wishes,
>> 
>> Shankar Nair
>> 
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Religious Studies and
>> Middle Eastern & South Asian Languages & Cultures
>> University of Virginia
>> 363 Gibson Hall
>> 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue
>> Charlottesville, VA 22903
>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 6:41 PM Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> ?
>>>> 
>>>> ?Dear colleagues,
>>>> 
>>>> Would one of you have a copy of the following article? J. B. Long, ?The Concepts of Human Action and of Rebirth in the Mah?bh?rata.? In Wendy Doniger O?Flaherty, Ed., Karma and Rebirth in Classical Indian Traditions (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1980), pp. 38-60. Thanks very much in advance.
>>> 
>>>> Alf Hiltebeitel 
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> <J. Bruce Long -- The Concepts of Human Action and Rebirth in the Mahabharata -- Karma and Rebirth in Classical Indian Traditions.pdf>


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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Mon Sep 14 23:18:56 2020
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 20 23:18:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Teaching South Asian Languages in 2020
Message-ID: <ME2P282MB0065F62F9F7B23BF988A4571AE230@ME2P282MB0065.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>


Global Festival of Asia Pacific Language and Culture Education

Teaching South Asian Languages in 2020

Session 1 - Sanskrit & Classical South Asian Language Education

Thursday 17th September 2020 7:00am?9:00am AEST

(9:00pm?11:00pm Wednesday UTC)



In South Asia and abroad, Sanskrit and the other classical languages have always had a robust and specialised traditions of education.

In 2020, the particular needs of classical language education are compounded with the global shifts to online education.

This roundtable session will focus on the current practices and needs of Sanskrit educators in Australia, Germany, the UK, and the United States.



Speakers



Dr Stephanie Majcher

Lecturer in Sanskrit

School of Culture, History & Language, ANU



Dr McComas Taylor

Associate Professor in Sanskrit

School of Culture, History & Language, ANU



Dr Antonia Ruppel

Postdoctoral Researcher, Lecturer in Sanskrit

University of Oxford /Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich



Dr Varun Khanna

Visiting Assistant Professor (classics)

Swarthmore College (USA)



Dr Sadananda Das

Lecturer in Sanskrit

Leipzig University (Germany)



Seth Powell

Doctoral Student & Founder/Director

Harvard & Yogic Studies (USA)



Session 2 - Modern South Asian Language Education

Friday 18th September 2020 8:00pm?10:00pm AEST

(10:00am?12:00pm UTC)



In Subcontinent and beyond, the languages of South Asia are taught in a variety of contexts and methods.

This roundtable session will focus on the current practices and needs of Hindi, Urdu, and Panjabi educators in Australia, Singapore, Pakistan, India, and the United States.



Speakers



Assoc. Prof. Peter Friedlander

Associate Professor in Hindi

School of Culture, History & Language, ANU



Dr Christopher Diamond

Lecturer in Hindi

School of Culture, History & Language, ANU



Dr Divya Chaudhry

Senior Lecturer in Hindi-Urdu

Vanderbilt University (USA)



Dr Gwendolyn Kirk

Assistant Professor

Lahore University of Management Sciences (Pakistan)



Dr Sandhya Singh

Lecturer in Hindi

National University of Singapore (Singapore)



Dr Ian Woolford

Lecturer in Hindi

La Trobe University



Prof. Sadanand Shahi

Professor in Hindi

Banaras Hindu University (India)





Location

This is an online event and will be

hosted via Zoom

Login details for the Zoom event will be

included in your Eventbrite registration email



Registration required

Register via Eventbrite

https://globallanguagefest.eventbritestudio.com



Email

Communicate.CHL at anu.edu.au<mailto:Communicate.CHL at anu.edu.au>


[cid:ad96b70a-7f9f-491d-a687-a446ef979d8a]
McComas Taylor
Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University
WSC Website<http://www.wsc2021.com.au>| McC Website<https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/>
Tel: +61 2 6125 3179


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From marcoferrante80 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 08:42:16 2020
From: marcoferrante80 at gmail.com (marcoferrante80 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 10:42:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book announcement: Indian Perspectives on Consciousness, Language and Self: The School of Recognition on Linguistics and Philosophy of Mind (Routledge)
Message-ID: <021b01d68b3c$1df20ff0$59d62fd0$@gmail.com>

Dear list members,

 

I am happy to inform you about the publication of my book, Indian Perspectives on Consciousness, Language and Self: The School of Recognition on Linguistics and Philosophy of Mind. The book is part of the Hindu Studies Series, published by Routledge.

For more information, I have pasted below the book description and the table of contents.

 

Best wishes,

Marco

 

 

 

Dr Marco Ferrante

Institut f?r Kultur- und Geistesgeschichte Asiens  

?sterreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften

Hollandstra?e 11-13, 2. Stock

A-1020 Wien

Tel.: +43 1 51581 / 6401

 

https://www.oeaw.ac.at/en/ikga/team/research/ferrante-marco/

https://oeaw.academia.edu/MarcoFerrante

 



 

 

 

 

 

Book Description

 

This book examines the theory of consciousness developed by the school of Recognition, an Indian philosophical tradition that thrived around the tenth c. CE in Kashmir, and argues that consciousness has a linguistic nature. It situates the doctrines of the tradition within the broader Indian philosophical context and establishes connections with the contemporary analytic debate.

The book focuses on Utpaladeva and Abhinavagupta (tenth c. CE), two Hindu intellectuals belonging to the school of Recognition, Pratyabh??? in Sanskrit. It argues that these authors promoted ideas that bear a strong resemblance with contemporary ?higher?order theories? of consciousness. In addition, the book explores the relationship between the thinkers of the school of Recognition and the thought of the grammarian/philosopher Bhart?hari (fifth c. CE). The book bridges a gap that still exists between scholars engaged with Western traditions and Sanskrit specialists focused on textual materials. In doing so, the author uses concepts from contemporary philosophy of mind to illustrate the Indian arguments and an interdisciplinary approach with abundant reference to the original sources. 

Offering fresh information to historians of Indian thought, the book will also be of interest to academics working on Non-Western Philosophy, Comparative Philosophy, Indian Philosophy, Religion, Hinduism, Tantric Studies and South Asian Studies.

 

Table of Contents

 

1. Historical and Philosophical Contexts  2. The Buddhist Doctrine of Non?Self  3. The True Nature of Self?Awareness  4. Self?Awareness and the Pratyabhij???s forerunners  5. A Linguistic Consciousness  6. Subjectivity and First?Person Stance  7. Self

 

 

https://www.routledge.com/Indian-Perspectives-on-Consciousness-Language-and-Self-The-School-of-Recognition/Ferrante/p/book/9780367517946

 

 

 

 



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From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 16:43:31 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 18:43:31 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] locative of goal
Message-ID: <4c6a8538-6bd4-5047-077e-3c4ac5c7ba2c@gmail.com>

Dear list members,

can anybody point me to the Sutra/Bhashya in which Panini or the later 
Paniniyas state their view(s) regarding the grammaticality of locatives 
that denote the goal of a motion verb like /gam/- (as, e.g., in RV 
7.32.10d /gamat sa gomati vraje/)? Even after hours of searching, I have 
to confess that I failed to find any Sutra/Bhashya vel sim. explicitely 
allowing this particular use of the locative...

NB: I am aware that the (from our perspective intransitive) motion verbs 
count as sakarmakas in native grammar and thus the accusative usually 
applies (apart from some cases in which the dative is licensed as well).

Thanks a lot in advance

Tim



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From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch  Tue Sep 15 18:21:11 2020
From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 18:21:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] locative of goal
In-Reply-To: <4c6a8538-6bd4-5047-077e-3c4ac5c7ba2c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <515F8C8F-85ED-4E81-9124-48131E1E2434@unil.ch>

Perhaps you are thinking of examples such as carma?i dv?pina? hanti "he kills the tiger for its skin"? A few such examples occur in the Mah?bh??ya under P. 2.3.6 vt. 6; also in the K??ik? under that s?tra.
 Johannes Bronkhorst

On 15 Sep 2020, at 18:43, Tim Felix Aufderheide via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Dear list members,

can anybody point me to the Sutra/Bhashya in which Panini or the later Paniniyas state their view(s) regarding the grammaticality of locatives that denote the goal of a motion verb like gam- (as, e.g., in RV 7.32.10d gamat sa gomati vraje)? Even after hours of searching, I have to confess that I failed to find any Sutra/Bhashya vel sim. explicitely allowing this particular use of the locative...

NB: I am aware that the (from our perspective intransitive) motion verbs count as sakarmakas in native grammar and thus the accusative usually applies (apart from some cases in which the dative is licensed as well).

Thanks a lot in advance

Tim

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From aprigliano at usp.br  Tue Sep 15 18:48:28 2020
From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 15:48:28 -0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] locative of goal
In-Reply-To: <515F8C8F-85ED-4E81-9124-48131E1E2434@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <CAHfOVEAKAgfUEuw35oqVpEQwGpUsN607jaP0USgysDqSb3uECQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Tim, Johannes,

MW under gam mentions A 2.3.12 gatyarthakarma?i dvit?y?caturthyau ce???y?m
anadhvani, which in fact mentions only accusative and dative. I did not
look, but perhaps the loc. could have been mentioned by commentators?
b.w.
Adriano

Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano
L?ngua e Literatura S?nscrita (Coordenador)
DLCV FFLCH USP
Av. Prof. Luciano Gualberto, 403 CEP: 05508-900
Cidade Universit?ria, S?o Paulo - SP / Brasil


Em ter., 15 de set. de 2020 ?s 15:21, Johannes Bronkhorst via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> escreveu:

> Perhaps you are thinking of examples such as *carma?i dv?pina? hanti* "he
> kills the tiger for its skin"? A few such examples occur in the Mah?bh??ya
> under P. 2.3.6 vt. 6; also in the K??ik? under that s?tra.
>
>  Johannes Bronkhorst
>
>
>
> On 15 Sep 2020, at 18:43, Tim Felix Aufderheide via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear list members,
>
> can anybody point me to the Sutra/Bhashya in which Panini or the later
> Paniniyas state their view(s) regarding the grammaticality of locatives
> that denote the goal of a motion verb like *gam*- (as, e.g., in RV
> 7.32.10d *gamat sa gomati vraje*)? Even after hours of searching, I have
> to confess that I failed to find any Sutra/Bhashya vel sim. explicitely
> allowing this particular use of the locative...
>
> NB: I am aware that the (from our perspective intransitive) motion verbs
> count as sakarmakas in native grammar and thus the accusative usually
> applies (apart from some cases in which the dative is licensed as well).
>
> Thanks a lot in advance
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Tue Sep 15 18:56:04 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 20:56:04 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] locative of goal
In-Reply-To: <4c6a8538-6bd4-5047-077e-3c4ac5c7ba2c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G2ci0GphUSnMQ8SkOqyPHDVCX+qA44-+AFMDbwveBtymg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Speijer has a section on the "locative of the spot whither" (pp. 103f.
https://archive.org/details/cu31924023201183/page/n117/mode/2up) and gives
several examples from classical Sanskrit texts, although not all of them
would necessitate, in my opinion, the interpretation of "spot whither" such
as "to submerge in", but others are really a place to which someone is
going as in sam?pavartini nagare prasthita? (Pa?catantra 41). Off the top
of my head I also don't know of any particular discussion in Sanskrit
grammatical literature about this usage, and Speijer gives no references. I
too am interested in knowing more.

All the Best,
Victor

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 6:44 PM Tim Felix Aufderheide via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> can anybody point me to the Sutra/Bhashya in which Panini or the later
> Paniniyas state their view(s) regarding the grammaticality of locatives
> that denote the goal of a motion verb like *gam*- (as, e.g., in RV
> 7.32.10d *gamat sa gomati vraje*)? Even after hours of searching, I have
> to confess that I failed to find any Sutra/Bhashya vel sim. explicitely
> allowing this particular use of the locative...
>
> NB: I am aware that the (from our perspective intransitive) motion verbs
> count as sakarmakas in native grammar and thus the accusative usually
> applies (apart from some cases in which the dative is licensed as well).
>
> Thanks a lot in advance
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 19:37:41 2020
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 14:37:41 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] locative of goal
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G2ci0GphUSnMQ8SkOqyPHDVCX+qA44-+AFMDbwveBtymg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO14gGgHKkApW0dHV13jKb6uS_z3LJaAnY1i+V+T28XZ5+g@mail.gmail.com>

For what it's worth, the construction is possibly more common in Middle
Indic (see Sukumar Sen's comments in his Historical Syntax, s. 94). I
recall seeing it fairly often, although the only examples that I can pull
up now are piyayama-m?lammi gacchant? (Tara?gal?l?) and ga? acc?sa???su
p?avatal?su (L?l?va?).

[image: image.png]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 2:13 PM victor davella via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Speijer has a section on the "locative of the spot whither" (pp. 103f.
> https://archive.org/details/cu31924023201183/page/n117/mode/2up) and
> gives several examples from classical Sanskrit texts, although not all of
> them would necessitate, in my opinion, the interpretation of "spot whither"
> such as "to submerge in", but others are really a place to which someone is
> going as in sam?pavartini nagare prasthita? (Pa?catantra 41). Off the top
> of my head I also don't know of any particular discussion in Sanskrit
> grammatical literature about this usage, and Speijer gives no references. I
> too am interested in knowing more.
>
> All the Best,
> Victor
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 6:44 PM Tim Felix Aufderheide via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> can anybody point me to the Sutra/Bhashya in which Panini or the later
>> Paniniyas state their view(s) regarding the grammaticality of locatives
>> that denote the goal of a motion verb like *gam*- (as, e.g., in RV
>> 7.32.10d *gamat sa gomati vraje*)? Even after hours of searching, I have
>> to confess that I failed to find any Sutra/Bhashya vel sim. explicitely
>> allowing this particular use of the locative...
>>
>> NB: I am aware that the (from our perspective intransitive) motion verbs
>> count as sakarmakas in native grammar and thus the accusative usually
>> applies (apart from some cases in which the dative is licensed as well).
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance
>>
>> Tim
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Sep 15 22:57:09 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 15:57:09 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdbAwRmzQ38Ca54i1gn_hAHgvgMo8pew=YOfg3uX4gLBA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a Sanskrit grammar book that gives the full paradigm for the word
*pratibh?*?  Is it declined like *subhr?*? Any help appreciated.  Best,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Sep 16 00:45:42 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 20 17:45:42 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdbAwRmzQ38Ca54i1gn_hAHgvgMo8pew=YOfg3uX4gLBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcpQHdHUQiErh+Gr+gBwHyhNis0ydjuixavrHvXJ8SDXQ@mail.gmail.com>

The question arose because someone asked me if the word *pratibh? *will
have alternative forms similar to forms of *subhr?*, like *subhruve/subhruvai
*etc.  After thinking further about this question, I came to the conclusion
that since we typically use the word *subhr? *in feminine, it has those
alternative forms similar to *matyai/mataye*, but we typically use the
word *pratibh?
*"guarantor" in masculine, it will not have such alternative forms.
However, if for some reason, this guarantor happened to be a woman, then we
could get the alternative forms like *pratibhuve/pratibhuvai*.  I have not
seen these forms in actual attestations, but in theory, this is my
understanding. Does it make sense?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Is there a Sanskrit grammar book that gives the full paradigm for the word
> *pratibh?*?  Is it declined like *subhr?*? Any help appreciated.  Best,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Wed Sep 16 08:16:12 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 10:16:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcpQHdHUQiErh+Gr+gBwHyhNis0ydjuixavrHvXJ8SDXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A196E4C-496A-47B2-BC0C-C404BB530EE2@uclouvain.be>

Dear Madhav,

Here in the R?p?vat?ra the paradigme of pratibh?- masc. (p. 56)
https://archive.org/details/Rupavatara_of_Dharmakirti_M_Rangacharya_1927/page/n87/mode/2up
The word is not given with the fem. in ? (cf. p. 71)
https://archive.org/details/Rupavatara_of_Dharmakirti_M_Rangacharya_1927/page/n101/mode/2up

The treatment you propose for its possible fem. usage (that is like subhr?) sounds logical. However, in his grammar (following the Siddhar?pam, a work consisting in a simple list of paradigms, presenting slight variants according to its different editions), Hanxleden says:
bhr? "like ?r?", so with the alternative forms dat. sg. bhruvai, bhruve etc. (so idem subhr?)
but
var??bh?, punarbh? "like kartr?". So var??bhvai, punarbhvai only (what is seen in the Siddh. eds).
pratibh?- fem. should be declined accordingly.

On these problems, see also Renou Grammaire pp. 325-26

Bw
Christophe


> Le 16 sept. 2020 ? 02:45, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> The question arose because someone asked me if the word pratibh? will have alternative forms similar to forms of subhr?, like subhruve/subhruvai etc.  After thinking further about this question, I came to the conclusion that since we typically use the word subhr? in feminine, it has those alternative forms similar to matyai/mataye, but we typically use the word pratibh? "guarantor" in masculine, it will not have such alternative forms.  However, if for some reason, this guarantor happened to be a woman, then we could get the alternative forms like pratibhuve/pratibhuvai.  I have not seen these forms in actual attestations, but in theory, this is my understanding. Does it make sense? 
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
> Is there a Sanskrit grammar book that gives the full paradigm for the word pratibh??  Is it declined like subhr?? Any help appreciated.  Best,
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C3725d60298214fb6d8a408d859da0834%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637358140528832069&amp;sdata=TbVkZJfXs925YNUYKNr40HtCDCWcp5PF%2BPV0Jp4DB9w%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C3725d60298214fb6d8a408d859da0834%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637358140528832069&amp;sdata=TbVkZJfXs925YNUYKNr40HtCDCWcp5PF%2BPV0Jp4DB9w%3D&amp;reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 16 08:45:27 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 10:45:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcpQHdHUQiErh+Gr+gBwHyhNis0ydjuixavrHvXJ8SDXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G0vrvpUHiF+JmQyRH5pqYb8gvj40+JacURpNuhZ7D170g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

you may also want to have a look at the Dh?tup??ha commentaries on bh?
satt?y?m. pratibh? is brought up there as well: p. 6 of K??ratara?gi?? (ed.
Liebich) and p. 74 of M?dhav?yadh?tuv?tti (Mysore edition, 1984); they also
do not seem to allow for the alternative forms.

All the Best,
Victor

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:47 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> The question arose because someone asked me if the word *pratibh? *will
> have alternative forms similar to forms of *subhr?*, like *subhruve/subhruvai
> *etc.  After thinking further about this question, I came to the
> conclusion that since we typically use the word *subhr? *in feminine, it
> has those alternative forms similar to *matyai/mataye*, but we typically
> use the word *pratibh? *"guarantor" in masculine, it will not have such
> alternative forms.  However, if for some reason, this guarantor happened to
> be a woman, then we could get the alternative forms like
> *pratibhuve/pratibhuvai*.  I have not seen these forms in actual
> attestations, but in theory, this is my understanding. Does it make sense?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
>> Is there a Sanskrit grammar book that gives the full paradigm for the
>> word *pratibh?*?  Is it declined like *subhr?*? Any help appreciated.
>> Best,
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de  Wed Sep 16 09:47:57 2020
From: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de (Raik Strunz)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 11:47:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Antw: Re:  Question
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G0vrvpUHiF+JmQyRH5pqYb8gvj40+JacURpNuhZ7D170g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F61DF4D020000C3000B3FD9@gwia0.itz.uni-halle.de>

Dear all,

the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit has two groups for pratibhu?, one
masculine, the other feminine. Further reading the entries for the
(uncompounded) feminine forms, it becomes evident, that these seem to be
mixed up. Obvious cases include e.g. Manu VII.17: caturn?a?m
a?s?rama?n?a?m? ca dharmasya pratibhu?h? smr?tah? | 

Neither the DCS nor GRETIL nor Wikisrotas give attestations for the
f.dat.sg. pratibh(u)vai (or sandhicized pratibh(u)va?+).

Best,


Raik









???????????




Raik Strunz, M.A.


Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de
Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 


Seminar f?r S?dasienkunde und Indologie 
 ? Indologie ?
Orientalisches Institut
Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg

Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9
D-06108 Halle (Saale)


www.indologie.uni-halle.de


???????????


???????????  ???????  ?
 


>>> victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> 16.09.20
10.47 Uhr >>>
Hello,
you may also want to have a look at the Dh?tup??ha commentaries on bh?
satt?y?m. pratibh? is brought up there as well: p. 6 of K??ratara?gi??
(ed. Liebich) and p. 74 of M?dhav?yadh?tuv?tti (Mysore edition, 1984);
they also do not seem to allow for the alternative forms.

All the Best,
Victor


On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:47 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

The question arose because someone asked me if the word pratibh? will
have alternative forms similar to forms of subhr?, like
subhruve/subhruvai etc.  After thinking further about this question, I
came to the conclusion that since we typically use the word subhr? in
feminine, it has those alternative forms similar to matyai/mataye, but
we typically use the word pratibh? "guarantor" in masculine, it will not
have such alternative forms.  However, if for some reason, this
guarantor happened to be a woman, then we could get the alternative
forms like pratibhuve/pratibhuvai.  I have not seen these forms in
actual attestations, but in theory, this is my understanding. Does it
make sense? 
Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies


[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]











On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
wrote:

Is there a Sanskrit grammar book that gives the full paradigm for the
word pratibh??  Is it declined like subhr?? Any help appreciated.  Best,
Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies


[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]









 
 _______________________________________________
 INDOLOGY mailing list
 INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
 indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
committee)
 http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
or unsubscribe)
 
 




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From mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Sep 16 10:19:12 2020
From: mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Mehner, Maximilian | GRETIL)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 10:19:12 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL Update #498
Message-ID: <11d3b76f56754dde9e9c56b637ffc3a3@sub.uni-goettingen.de>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection:

Texts revised:
Moksopaya [= "Yogavasistha"]<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.html#Moksop>, added chapters 6,120-6,252 and incorporated new corrigenda

Texts converted:
most of the Sanskrit<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.html#Sanskrit> corpus

__________________________________________________________________________
GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:
<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.html#DhSmrti><http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gr>
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/


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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Wed Sep 16 14:52:00 2020
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 07:52:00 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sad_News:_Dr._Kapila_Vatsyayan_1925=E2=80=932020?=
In-Reply-To: <CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0294F6F-0ACE-4A85-9402-40F4F6F285BE@berkeley.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

We note with great sadness the passing of our friend and colleague Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan with whom nay of us have worked over the years. She was a mainstay in the cultural, artistic, literary world of traditional Indian Studies and a great institution builder through her  longstanding association with the IIC and her service as the founder of the IGNCA. She will be sorely missed.


Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Ruchita Rane <ruchitarane26 at gmail.com>
> Subject: {???????????????????} Fwd: Photo from Ruchita Rane
> Date: September 16, 2020 at 2:01:19 AM PDT
> To: bvparishat at googlegroups.com
> Reply-To: bvparishat at googlegroups.com
> 
> The passing away of a doyen ... Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan. A void in the field of art.  We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic writings....  A great scholar who contributed immensely to the field of art.... May her noble soul attain Sadgati??   
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Ruchita Rane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic writings....  A great scholar who gave immensely to the field of art.... May her noble soul attain Sadgati?? 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "???????????????????" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com <mailto:bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.



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From pranav-prakash at uiowa.edu  Wed Sep 16 16:01:55 2020
From: pranav-prakash at uiowa.edu (Prakash, Pranav)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 16:01:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CALL FOR APPLICATIONS: SoFCB JUNIOR FELLOWS PROGRAM
Message-ID: <DM5PR04MB0347C3BE088BE15F69680C3D80210@DM5PR04MB0347.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Rare Book School?s Andrew W. Mellon Society of Fellows in Critical Bibliography (SoFCB) invites applications for its 2021?23 cohort of junior fellows. The deadline is Monday, 2 November 2020.

Continuing the work of the Andrew W. Mellon Fellowship in Critical Bibliography (2012?17), this scholarly society works to advance the study of texts, images, and artifacts as material objects through capacious, interdisciplinary scholarship?and to enrich humanistic inquiry and education by identifying, mentoring, and training promising early-career scholars. Junior Fellows will be encouraged and supported in integrating the methods of critical bibliography into their teaching and research, fostering collegial conversations about historical and emerging media across disciplines and institutions, and sharing their knowledge with broader publics.

The fellowship includes tuition waivers for two Rare Book School courses, as well as funding for Junior Fellows to participate in the Society?s annual meeting and orientation. Additional funds are available for fellows to organize symposia at their home institutions, and fellows will have the option of attending a bibliographical field school to visit libraries, archives, and collections in a major metropolitan area. After completing two years in good standing as Junior Fellows, program participants will have the option to become Senior Fellows in the Society.

The Society is committed to supporting diversity and to advancing the scholarship of outstanding persons of every race, gender, sexual orientation, creed, and socioeconomic background, and to enhancing the diversity of the professions and academic disciplines it represents, including those of the professoriate, museums, libraries, archives, public humanities, and digital humanities. We warmly encourage prospective applicants from a wide range of disciplines, institutions, and areas of expertise.

For more information and to apply, please visit:
http://rarebookschool.org/admissions-awards/fellowships/sofcb/

For more information about diversity and the SoFCB, please visit the SoFCB Diversity & Outreach Committee?s Welcome Letter: https://rarebookschool.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/SoFCB_Welcome_Letter_2020.pdf

Inquiries about the SoFCB Junior Fellows Program can be directed to Sonia Hazard, SoFCB Selection Committee Chair, at shazard at fsu.edu<mailto:shazard at fsu.edu>, or Donna Sy, SoFCB Administrative Director, at rbs-mellon at virginia.edu<mailto:rbs-mellon at virginia.edu>.



Pranav Prakash

Windgate Fellow, Center for the Book, U-Iowa

Junior Mellon Fellow in Critical Bibliography, Rare Book School, U-Virginia

https://www.pranav-prakash.com/



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From yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp  Wed Sep 16 23:42:16 2020
From: yanom at cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp (YANO MICHIO)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 23:42:16 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sad_News:_Dr._Kapila_Vatsyayan_1925=E2=80=932020?=
In-Reply-To: <E0294F6F-0ACE-4A85-9402-40F4F6F285BE@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <TYAPR01MB214345835060BED9D864E73DF5210@TYAPR01MB2143.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com>

It is really a sad news.
I was invited to IGNCA in 1996 and 1997 by Kapila
Vatsyayan and I stayed in IIC.  The new building of
IGNCA was on construction. Commuting from IIC
to IGNCA and occasiobal talks with Kapia are my
most valuable memory in India.
With best wishes,
Michio Yano
Professor emeritus of Kyoto Sangyo Universsity
________________________________
???: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> ? Robert Goldman via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> ??????
????: 2020?9?16? 23:52
??: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
??: [INDOLOGY] Sad News: Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan 1925?2020

Dear Colleagues,

We note with great sadness the passing of our friend and colleague Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan with whom nay of us have worked over the years. She was a mainstay in the cultural, artistic, literary world of traditional Indian Studies and a great institution builder through her  longstanding association with the IIC and her service as the founder of the IGNCA. She will be sorely missed.


Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409

Begin forwarded message:

From: Ruchita Rane <ruchitarane26 at gmail.com<mailto:ruchitarane26 at gmail.com>>
Subject: {???????????????????} Fwd: Photo from Ruchita Rane
Date: September 16, 2020 at 2:01:19 AM PDT
To: bvparishat at googlegroups.com<mailto:bvparishat at googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: bvparishat at googlegroups.com<mailto:bvparishat at googlegroups.com>

The passing away of a doyen ... Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan. A void in the field of art.  We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic writings....  A great scholar who contributed immensely to the field of art.... May her noble soul attain Sadgati??

Thanks & Regards,

Ruchita Rane





We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic writings....  A great scholar who gave immensely to the field of art.... May her noble soul attain Sadgati??

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "???????????????????" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
[cid:17496220553e76d1cb81]



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From wlharris at ucdavis.edu  Thu Sep 17 00:17:28 2020
From: wlharris at ucdavis.edu (Westin Harris)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 20 17:17:28 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Avalokitesvara-Matsyendranath in Orissa?
Message-ID: <CANJQKUNJ2es+=87BVb_bZwu=6c5aLgUtptR-B57BxrTPDes5wQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings list members,

On page 10 of H.K. Mahtab's "Culture of Orissa," The Orissa Historical
Research Journal 30, nos. 2-4 (1984), he states:

"A statue of Matsyendranath in the form of Padmapani Avalokitesvar at
forest of Rajnagar under Deravisi Block of Kendrapara Subdivision is still
worshipped by the Nathas of the surrounding villages. The inscription on
both sides of the statue is in Kutila-lipi or proto-Udralipi. [...] The
prototype of the same statue is seen at Kendrapara bus stand with the same
inscription and another at Trilochanpur village under Mahajajpur Gram
Panchayat near Bahugram is also worshipped by the Nathas of the surrounding
villages."

This statement is widely quoted in the works of J.P. Singdeo, O.B.
Kabikany, and others.

Do any photographs exist of the abovementioned statues or inscriptions? Is
there any corroborating evidence of the worship of Matsyendranath as
Avalokitesvara in Orissa (or anywhere else outside of Nepal, for that
matter)?


*Sincerely,*

*Westin Harris*
Ph.D. Candidate
Graduate Group in the Study of Religion
University of California, Davis

https://religions.ucdavis.edu/people/westin-harris

Sarva Mangalam.


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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Thu Sep 17 06:52:29 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 20 06:52:29 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about bookseller
Message-ID: <09459e4a72194aeb9a34fab82e21e5d5@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear List Members,


This is a question I would have posted on the Classical Tamil List of Jean-Luc Chevillard, but as far as I know the list is no longer active.


(Tamil) books I used to order with Dilip Kumar (216/10 R.K. Mutt Road in Mylapore. I tried to contact him a few days ago, but so far I have not received a reply. This morning I tried to phone him but the numbers do no longer exist.  What I would like to know if he has discontinued his business or if there are other ways to contact him.


If he has retired, where does one order Tamil books or books published in Tamil Nadu nowadays?

I am looking for K. Rajan, Early writing System, but all I find are copies offered for USD 160, which is ridiculous for a book of 2290 Rupees!


Best, Herman


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr  Thu Sep 17 08:02:12 2020
From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 20 10:02:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about bookseller
In-Reply-To: <09459e4a72194aeb9a34fab82e21e5d5@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <f8b3a913-b3cf-b059-a1c1-34ac27036b9f@wanadoo.fr>

Dear Herman,
I think you can order "K. Rajan, Early writing System" at the 
Archaeological Society of Tamil Nadu. As I don't know the actual 
situation due to the COVID 19, you may directly place your order with 
Prof K. Rajan and here is his e-mail: rajanarchy at gmail.com
 ?I will check for Dilip Kumar and will get back to you.
Best regards
Murugaiyan

Le 17/09/2020 ? 08:52, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY a ?crit?:
>
> Dear List Members,
>
>
> This is a question I would have posted on the Classical Tamil List of 
> Jean-Luc Chevillard, but as far as I know the list is no longer active.
>
>
> (Tamil) books I used to order with?Dilip Kumar (216/10 R.K. Mutt Road 
> in Mylapore. I tried to contact him a few days ago, but so far I have 
> not received a reply. This morning I tried to phone him but the 
> numbers do no longer?exist.? What I would like to know if he has 
> discontinued his business or if there are other ways to contact him.
>
>
> If he has retired, where does one order Tamil books or books published 
> in Tamil Nadu nowadays?
>
> I am looking for K. Rajan, Early writing System, but all I find are 
> copies offered for USD 160, which is ridiculous?for a book of 2290 Rupees!
>
>
> Best, Herman
>
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 14:05:54 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 20 10:05:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Is this hymn title in sanskrit?
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o_XzPXc+FqvPrgyL2x92Jayu9Evq5UQn=QZ7nQTT5WEvA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I'm looking at a hymn whose title is *mah?lak?my? ?rtikyam but I can't
find *?rtikya in any of the sanskrit dictionaries.  Can someone confirm
that  ?rtikyam is in sanskrit and written correctly.
Thanks,
Harry Spier


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep 18 15:38:18 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 20 08:38:18 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Is this hymn title in sanskrit?
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_XzPXc+FqvPrgyL2x92Jayu9Evq5UQn=QZ7nQTT5WEvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcHwn7-SqSKmD70wZkfy3Tz1ntWzAsAkLXLjjsG01EaNw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

     The word ?rtikyam does appear in late Sanskrit texts, mainly texts
describing the procedure of P?j?.  I have seen "?rtikyam pratigr?hyat?m".
If you search with the word ?rtikyam on Google, numerous such texts will
pop up.  This is probably explainable as Sanskritization of the vernacular
word ?rati.

Madhav
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 7:06 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> I'm looking at a hymn whose title is *mah?lak?my? ?rtikyam but I can't
> find *?rtikya in any of the sanskrit dictionaries.  Can someone confirm
> that  ?rtikyam is in sanskrit and written correctly.
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:02:47 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 20 12:02:47 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sad_News:_Dr._Kapila_Vatsyayan_1925=E2=80=932020?=
In-Reply-To: <E0294F6F-0ACE-4A85-9402-40F4F6F285BE@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfaZjGPeGbet-3Ghe-xSyLnqAww-uAqmBLQe2FYO7OFHg@mail.gmail.com>

I join in mourning the loss of Kapila Vatsyayan.  She invited me to work at
the IGNCA for a month as a consultant, back in '94 I think it was.  I very
much enjoyed interacting with her.  She was a strong and clever person who
did not suffer fools gladly, but she was also kind and had a mischievous
sense of humour.   She did truly great things for the discovery and
dissemination of Indian history and culture across many fields, and she was
a formidable leader and builder of institutions.  I am truly sorry she is
no longer with us.

Dominik
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 08:52, Robert Goldman via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We note with great sadness the passing of our friend and colleague Dr.
> Kapila Vatsyayan with whom nay of us have worked over the years. She was a
> mainstay in the cultural, artistic, literary world of traditional Indian
> Studies and a great institution builder through her  longstanding
> association with the IIC and her service as the founder of the IGNCA. She
> will be sorely missed.
>
>
> Dr. R. P.  Goldman
> Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South
> and Southeast Asian Studies
> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
> The University of California at Berkeley
> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
> Tel: 510-642-4089
> Fax: 510-642-2409
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Ruchita Rane <ruchitarane26 at gmail.com>
> *Subject: **{???????????????????} Fwd: Photo from Ruchita Rane*
> *Date: *September 16, 2020 at 2:01:19 AM PDT
> *To: *bvparishat at googlegroups.com
> *Reply-To: *bvparishat at googlegroups.com
>
> The passing away of a doyen ... Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan. A void in the field
> of art.  We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic
> writings....  A great scholar who contributed immensely to the field of
> art.... May her noble soul attain Sadgati??
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Ruchita Rane
>
>
>
>
>
> We all have read and gained knowledge from her dynamic writings....  A
> great scholar who gave immensely to the field of art.... May her noble soul
> attain Sadgati??
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "???????????????????" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAD6yknpcR98OqBm0mLyv-Xg56Y1uaBpMvVKs5183MB5_DtTTHw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From beitel at gwu.edu  Fri Sep 18 21:15:14 2020
From: beitel at gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 20 17:15:14 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
Message-ID: <CADRWd6Enp-wtw4khYSboO0nqWya7x+Xw8WhQVbTZLx4MQojPFw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I am in need of copies of the following two fairly short books by Jan Gonda:

Gonda,Jan. 1966. Loka:  World and Heaven in the Veda. Amsterdam:
Noord-Hollandiche U. M.
Gonda, Jan. 1967.  The Meaning of the Sanskrit Term Dhaman. Amsterdam:
Royal Netherlands Academy.

Would any of you have a copy of one or the other, or both? I would
greatly appreciate copires.
>
> Very best
> Alf Hiltebeitel
> Sent from my iPad





From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 22:43:24 2020
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 20 18:43:24 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
In-Reply-To: <CADRWd6Enp-wtw4khYSboO0nqWya7x+Xw8WhQVbTZLx4MQojPFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6E750747-3139-4557-853C-0CAD15AE7D1A@gmail.com>

Loka is available here: https://ia802905.us.archive.org/20/items/lokaworldandheaveninthevedajangonda_202003_688_a/Loka%20World%20and%20Heaven%20in%20The%20Veda%20%20Jan%20Gonda%20.pdf <https://ia802905.us.archive.org/20/items/lokaworldandheaveninthevedajangonda_202003_688_a/Loka%20World%20and%20Heaven%20in%20The%20Veda%20%20Jan%20Gonda%20.pdf>.


> On Sep 18, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I am in need of copies of the following two fairly short books by Jan Gonda:
> 
> Gonda,Jan. 1966. Loka:  World and Heaven in the Veda. Amsterdam:
> Noord-Hollandiche U. M.
> Gonda, Jan. 1967.  The Meaning of the Sanskrit Term Dhaman. Amsterdam:
> Royal Netherlands Academy.
> 
> Would any of you have a copy of one or the other, or both? I would
> greatly appreciate copires.
>> 
>> Very best
>> Alf Hiltebeitel
>> Sent from my iPad
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com
267-240-8418





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From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 23:08:57 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 20 01:08:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
In-Reply-To: <6E750747-3139-4557-853C-0CAD15AE7D1A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a331f59-956b-5cb3-7c5b-c52aa69f35ea@gmail.com>

Dear Prof Hiltebeitel,

the Gonda's book on Dhaman (as well as several of his other monographs) 
can be downloaded from the KNAW digital library

https://www.dwc.knaw.nl/toegangen/digital-library-knaw/?pagetype=publDetail&pId=PU00010204

Best

Tim

Am 19.09.2020 um 00:43 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
> Loka is available here: 
> https://ia802905.us.archive.org/20/items/lokaworldandheaveninthevedajangonda_202003_688_a/Loka%20World%20and%20Heaven%20in%20The%20Veda%20%20Jan%20Gonda%20.pdf 
> <https://ia802905.us.archive.org/20/items/lokaworldandheaveninthevedajangonda_202003_688_a/Loka 
> World and Heaven in The Veda Jan Gonda .pdf>.
>
>
>> On Sep 18, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY 
>> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I am in need of copies of the following two fairly short books by Jan 
>> Gonda:
>>
>> Gonda,Jan. 1966. Loka: ?World and Heaven in the Veda. Amsterdam:
>> Noord-Hollandiche U. M.
>> Gonda, Jan. 1967. ?The Meaning of the Sanskrit Term Dhaman. Amsterdam:
>> Royal Netherlands Academy.
>>
>> Would any of you have a copy of one or the other, or both? I would
>> greatly appreciate copires.
>>>
>>> Very best
>>> Alf Hiltebeitel
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options 
>> or unsubscribe)
>
> Elliot M. Stern
> 552 South 48th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
> emstern1948 at gmail.com <mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
> 267-240-8418
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From dominik at haas.asia  Sun Sep 20 12:31:23 2020
From: dominik at haas.asia (Dominik Haas)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 20 14:31:23 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PDF_query:_Vishv._Ind._Journal_|_AIOC_|_Vedav=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=AB?=
Message-ID: <eaf1929e-98f8-969a-0647-855de108f4e5@haas.asia>

Dear colleagues,

I'm looking for scans of the following articles:

? Vishva Bandhu, ?Vedic textuo-linguistic studies.? *Vishveshvaranand 
Indological Journal 7* (1969): 7?21.

? Vishva Bandhu, ?The G?yatr? (RV III. 62. 10): its grammatical 
problem.? *Research Bulletin (Arts) of the Panjab University* 13(4) 
(1954): 1?15. Apparently printed earlier in the proceedings of the *17th 
All-India Oriental Conference*, Ahmedabad (1953): 107?08. (this 
<https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.507372/mode/2up> version 
on archive.org is incomplete).

? C. L. Prabhakar, ?The course of g?yatr?-mantra through the Yajurveda.? 
*25th All-India Oriental Conference* (1969): 22(??)

? V. S. Agrawala, ?G?yatr?.? *Vedav???**16(1)* (1963): 15?20.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Best regards,

Dominik



__________________
*Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences | PhD Candidate, University of 
Vienna
dominik at haas.asia <mailto:dominik at haas.asia> | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 
<https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
<https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
follow my work on univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas 
<https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email>

Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia
Austrian Academy of Sciences
Hollandstra?e 11?13, 1020 Vienna, Austria
oeaw.ac.at/ikga <https://oeaw.ac.at/ikga>


The Initiative for Fair Open Access Publishing in South Asian Studies | 
foasas.org
<https://foasas.org>



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From spokensanskrit at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 19:32:00 2020
From: spokensanskrit at gmail.com (Sadananda Das)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 20 21:32:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad news: Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan
Message-ID: <CAKBcsYe0xAL0vE++4jr_UWdQFQh6RFxzYiMmOosoomX75u4Ggg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,
it is shocking to hear that Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan is no more. I join in
mourning the departure of Dr. Kapila Vatsyayan. It is a great loss to the
academic world. Her contribution to the field of Indian Dance, Music, Art
and Culture is immense.  During 1993 -1996, while working in the  Varanasi
Centre of IGNCA, I had some opportunities to meet her. During these last
years  I was in touch with her in connection with getting her Foreword  to
the  Selected articles of Bettina Ba?mer  volume,

(Bettina Sharada B?umer



PA?YANT?



Insights into Indian Traditions

Selected Articles)
which I am currently editing. It should have been already published by
IGNCA, New Delhi by now but for some reasons it has been delayed.

I am deeply shocked to hear that she is no more with us. I send my
condolences to her family and friends. Let her immortal Soul rest in peace.
om ??nti?.

Sadananda

*****************************************

Dr. Sadananda Das
Institute of Indology and Central Asian Studies
Leipzig University
Schillerstrasse 6,
04109 Leipzig, Germany
Tel. 0341-97 37 132  (Off.)
Fax. 0341-97 37 148 (Off.)
sdas at uni-leipzig.de
<https://mail.uni-leipzig.de/portal/imp/message.php?mailbox=sent-mail&index=981#>
http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~indzaw/doc/staff/das


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Mon Sep 21 14:19:23 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 20 14:19:23 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book
Message-ID: <4369A2C3-211A-4C19-AE4A-F8208E9A0739@austin.utexas.edu>

Friends:

With apologies for cross posting, I am delighted to inform you of the publication of the book:

Y?j?avalkya Dharma??stra: The Textual History of a Hindu Legal Code (Delhi: Primus Books)

http://primusbooks.com/yajnavalkya-dharmsastra-the-textual-history-of-a-hindu-legal-code/#

This is a companion volume to my book: Yajnavalkya: A Treatise on Dharma in the Murty Classical Library of India (Harvard: 2019), which contained only the text and translation.

The current volume contains the critically edited text together with the critical apparatus, detailed statements about editorial principles and the criteria for text selection, a concordance, and a p?da index.

With thanks and best wishes,


Patrick

Patrick Olivelle
Jacob and Frances Sanger Mossiker Chair Emeritus in the Humanities
120 Inner Campus Dr. Stop G9300
University of Texas
Austin, TX 78712-1251
USA
Telephone: (512) 471-5811; FAX (512) 471-4469
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/asianstudies/faculty/olivelle
 








From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 23:43:38 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 20 19:43:38 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Modern Hindi question
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o9_Jx5+VUSOX2=WPn7WumuSo8=QQ9PeeOEyN=dkDBHWsw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,
Does visarga occur in modern Hindi?
Harry Spier


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 23:51:54 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 20 19:51:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Modern Hindi question
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o9_Jx5+VUSOX2=WPn7WumuSo8=QQ9PeeOEyN=dkDBHWsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o9e4=9NwE9bbhWKKqZ1ssg-gU2zs_O3_AJQxdxYK-rquA@mail.gmail.com>

I meant to write:  Does visarga occur at word end in modern hindi.
Thanks,
Harry Spier


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 7:43 PM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear list members,
> Does visarga occur in modern Hindi?
> Harry Spier
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 04:36:37 2020
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 04:36:37 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] book by Hugo David
Message-ID: <AM5P193MB00517F774B1C8009F9E19998A53B0@AM5P193MB0051.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear colleagues,

It is my pleasure to announce the publication of my colleague's monograph on Prak???tman:

"Une philosophie de la parole. L'Enqu?te sur la connaissance verbale (??bdanir?aya) de Prak???tman, ma?tre advaitin du Xe si?cle" / "Philosophy of Language in Classical Advaita Ved?nta: Prak???tman's Inquiry into Verbal Knowledge (??bdanir?aya)" (EFEO / Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften - Monographies 198)

The book is now available on the EFEO publications website:

https://publications.efeo.fr/fr/livres/940_une-philosophie-de-la-parole
[https://publications.efeo.fr/efeo/visual/img/logo.jpg]<https://publications.efeo.fr/fr/livres/940_une-philosophie-de-la-parole>
Livres - ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient<https://publications.efeo.fr/fr/livres/940_une-philosophie-de-la-parole>
L'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), fond?e en 1900 ? Saigon, a pour mission la recherche interdisciplinaire sur les civilisations asiatiques, de l'Inde au Japon. L'EFEO est pr?sente, gr?ce ? ses 17 centres de recherche, dans 12 pays d'Asie.
publications.efeo.fr<http://publications.efeo.fr/>
The book is in French, but here is an English summary:

"This book investigates the beginnings, in the 10th century CE, of an autonomous reflection on language in the ?non-dualist? trend of Brahmanical exegesis (Advaita-Ved?nta), inaugurated in the 8th century by ?a?kara. Its starting point is the detailed study of the most ancient text of that tradition exclusively devoted to linguistic philosophy: Prak???tman?s Inquiry into Verbal Knowledge (??bdanir?aya), critically edited and translated here for the first time. The text and its translation are followed by a new edition of its only known Sanskrit commentary by another famous Advaitin, ?nandabodha (11th century). A preliminary study, historical as well as philosophical, introduces some key concepts, and situates this seminal work at the crossroads between two lines of history: that of the non-dualist movement after ?a?kara (?classical? or ?late? Advaita) and that of linguistic traditions in medieval India. On this basis, an attempt is made to understand why one of the most illustrious non-dualist thinkers chose to engage in an entirely new reflection on language, virtually unknown to his predecessors, thereby breaking new ground for what would become the typical Ved?ntic reflexion on meaning and interpretation. This approach, centred on hermeneutics rather than doctrine, allows one to understand how philosophy of language came to occupy a prominent position in later Advaita, as the cornerstone of a ?system? where Being, however immediate, presents itself through the medium of Sacred Speech."

With best wishes,

Arlo Griffiths



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From danbalogh at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 07:05:52 2020
From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A1niel_Balogh?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 09:05:52 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Modern Hindi question
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o9e4=9NwE9bbhWKKqZ1ssg-gU2zs_O3_AJQxdxYK-rquA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM0n-bWW7u6Abu79VersXbd1hixRZ6rRFwFD9m6RN9d_Ncg+ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry, it does in some tatsama words used in higher language
registers, like ??? and ???? - but no visarga in "real" Hindi words. I hope
this answers your question,
Daniel

On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 01:52, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I meant to write:  Does visarga occur at word end in modern hindi.
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 7:43 PM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>> Does visarga occur in modern Hindi?
>> Harry Spier
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de  Tue Sep 22 14:13:09 2020
From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 16:13:09 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_hSZVJJ0URSF=i+d8sDt-m5kEPMj1onF9e1H6Kyf_EwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <db9f564a-5e6b-e40d-08f2-a24eff457e07@uni-muenchen.de>

For my students I made a few help pages on how to type Kannada on Linux, Mac and and Windows machines:

http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/kannada-osx.html
http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/kannada-windows.html
http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/linux/kannada-linux.html

I use the font Kedage for my Kannada work. A number of fonts can be found here: http://kannada.nd4.org/kannada-fonts

(Sorry for this very late response. I was out of station for a few weeks when the original query was sent to the list, and I saw it just now, while cleaning up my computer.)

Robert Zydenbos

On 14.03.20 13:40, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Thank you to everyone who replied on and off line.? The font is for a colleague who will be entering small amounts of text (bhajans) and will be having some helpers typing in from home.? So are there on-line or dpwnloadable tools for typing in Kannada text? (keyboards or online sites for text conversion etc.)?
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier






From jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de  Tue Sep 22 14:17:33 2020
From: jpeterson at isfas.uni-kiel.de (John Peterson)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 16:17:33 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
In-Reply-To: <db9f564a-5e6b-e40d-08f2-a24eff457e07@uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <7683379048abddfb4542c458447ae375@isfas.uni-kiel.de>

I myself use this whenever I type in Devanagari or Bengali. It is really 
very simple to use, and I just checked - Kannada is also there ("Select 
a language" in the middle). It is really very simply to use and there is 
no downloading anything. Just type, copy, and paste.

https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/devanagari.htm

Best,
John

Am 22.09.2020 16:13, schrieb Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY:

> For my students I made a few help pages on how to type Kannada on 
> Linux, Mac and and Windows machines:
> 
> http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/kannada-osx.html
> http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/kannada-windows.html
> http://lmu.zydenbos.net/kannada/linux/kannada-linux.html
> 
> I use the font Kedage for my Kannada work. A number of fonts can be 
> found here: http://kannada.nd4.org/kannada-fonts
> 
> (Sorry for this very late response. I was out of station for a few 
> weeks when the original query was sent to the list, and I saw it just 
> now, while cleaning up my computer.)
> 
> Robert Zydenbos
> 
> On 14.03.20 13:40, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY wrote:
> 
>> Thank you to everyone who replied on and off line.  The font is for a 
>> colleague who will be entering small amounts of text (bhajans) and 
>> will be having some helpers typing in from home.  So are there on-line 
>> or dpwnloadable tools for typing in Kannada text  (keyboards or online 
>> sites for text conversion etc.)
>> Thanks,
>> Harry Spier
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options 
> or unsubscribe)

-- 
John Peterson
Linguistik und Phonetik (ISFAS)
Christian-Albrechts-Universit?t zu Kiel
Olshausenstra?e 40
D-24098 Kiel
Germany

Tel.: (+49) (0)431-880 2414
Fax: (+49) (0)431-880 7405

Homepage: 
http://www.isfas.uni-kiel.de/de/linguistik/mitarbeitende/john-peterson

Project on the languages of South Asia:
http://www.isfas.uni-kiel.de/de/linguistik/efprojects

"Some you win, and some you learn."


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 16:18:07 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 10:18:07 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Mudr=C4=81r=C4=81k=E1=B9=A3asa_date=3F?=
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cfkuz0KVkCGBdG3U2dAdEs1AaL5Qp_nOGres3YJ2uA1OQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone point me to the latest scholarship on the date of Vi??khadatta?
I see distinguished scholars citing dates from 400 CE to 700 CE.  Are Romila
Thapar's reflections
<https://eclass.srv.ualberta.ca/pluginfile.php/5780383/mod_page/content/8/CSLRakshasasRing_Foreword.pdf>
the most recent word?

Best,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 23:13:44 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 17:13:44 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A promising academic project at scholar.archive.org
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf7J67z18Yh5ccXUb1MCTW+CHqBVQsWPYFiiPHFkfni+w@mail.gmail.com>

The Internet Archive is piloting an ambitious project specifically to
archive and make available *academic* journal articles.  See for example:

   - https://scholar-qa.archive.org/search?q=indology&filter_time=past_year

They say,

This fulltext search index includes over 25 million research articles and
other scholarly documents preserved in the Internet Archive. The collection
spans from digitized copies of eighteenth century journals though the
latest Open Access conference proceedings and pre-prints crawled from the
World Wide Web.


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 02:59:31 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 20:59:31 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mudr=C4=81r=C4=81k=E1=B9=A3asa_date=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfkuz0KVkCGBdG3U2dAdEs1AaL5Qp_nOGres3YJ2uA1OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd+Gyn6armJreii2D5ZchKhdv6Aib7YFtDo6LU1zLvpnQ@mail.gmail.com>

My sincere thanks to colleagues who sent me pointers to Daniel B?logh's
thesis <https://www.academia.edu/11409009>, which is exactly what I needed.

Best,
Dominik
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 10:18, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can anyone point me to the latest scholarship on the date of
> Vi??khadatta?  I see distinguished scholars citing dates from 400 CE to 700
> CE.  Are Romila Thapar's reflections
> <https://eclass.srv.ualberta.ca/pluginfile.php/5780383/mod_page/content/8/CSLRakshasasRing_Foreword.pdf>
> the most recent word?
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 03:00:56 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 20 21:00:56 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mudr=C4=81r=C4=81k=E1=B9=A3asa_date=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd+Gyn6armJreii2D5ZchKhdv6Aib7YFtDo6LU1zLvpnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeWnALddaPgO2==T=08iLypAo6pguq3DNbrjAZxxOzdmQ@mail.gmail.com>

D?niel Balogh, that should have been.  Pardon my hyper-accentization.


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From danbalogh at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 06:32:44 2020
From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A1niel_Balogh?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 20 08:32:44 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mudr=C4=81r=C4=81k=E1=B9=A3asa_date=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CeWnALddaPgO2==T=08iLypAo6pguq3DNbrjAZxxOzdmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM0n-bX+xf2MqUy_Z3cHHZgzYeLfuYM7LYCWYMSp983UXTXb7g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dominik, I was not fast enough to promote my own work, but I'm glad
others have suggested it. I of course see now that much of it is not as
good-quality as it could have been, but I still think there is a good case
for associating Vi??khadatta with Ya?odharman. That said, Avantivarman the
Maukhari still remains a likely candidate. And no worries about the accent
in my name; I myself normally just drop it when writing an email in English.
All the best,
Daniel

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 at 05:01, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> D?niel Balogh, that should have been.  Pardon my hyper-accentization.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dhammadinnaa at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 09:23:25 2020
From: dhammadinnaa at gmail.com (bhikkhuni dhammadinna)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 20 11:23:25 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Research_on_the_Sa=E1=B9=83yukta-=C4=81gama?=
Message-ID: <CAOhQ1WdVdS+LVbb4QWG3Y9Gb60JZA6qNeopkJ+VHXzY4pFj-0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

warm greetings.

I would like to let you know that the fourth volume of proceedings of the
?gama research seminars convened by the ?gama Research Group at the
Department of Buddhist Studies of the Dharma Drum Institute of Liberal Arts
has recently come out:

Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn? (ed.), *Research on the Sa?yukta-?gama* (Dharma Drum
Institute of Liberal Arts Research Series, 8), Taipei: Dharma Drum
Corporation, 2020, 1040pp., ISBN 9789575988593.

The seminar on the *Sa?yukta-?gama *was held in Buenos Aires in October
2018, organised by the ?gama Research Group and hosted by Fundaci?n
Bodhiy?na de la Argentina.

Here are the relevant links:

Contents and front matter on the ?gama Research Group publications webpage:
http://agamaresearch.dila.edu.tw/publications

For orders via the Dharma Drum Publishing Corporation: https://
www.ddc.com.tw/book/detail.php?id=8014

BibliaImpex distribution: http://www.bibliaimpex.com

Kindly note that the publisher, Dharma Drum Corporation, is connected to
but independent from the Dharma Drum Institute of Liberal Arts. The book is
available for sale through their website or, probably slightly later this
year due to postal service disruption caused by the pandemic, via the
Indian distributor BibliaImpex.

With best wishes,

Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn?


Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn?

?gama Research Group

Department of Buddhist Studies

Dharma Drum Institute of Liberal Arts

Taiwan


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From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Wed Sep 23 22:17:16 2020
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 20 00:17:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication announcement
In-Reply-To: <AM5P193MB00517F774B1C8009F9E19998A53B0@AM5P193MB0051.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <20200924001716.Horde.qr4SGcNrodSj66GFatulgDm@mail.uni-leipzig.de>


Dear List Members,
It gives me a great pleasure to announce the following publication by  
Monika Zin: Representations of the Parinirv??a Story Cycle in Kucha.  
Leipzig Kucha Studies 2. Dev Publishers & Distributors, Delhi 2020.
With best wishes,
Eli Franco

-- 
Prof. Dr. Eli Franco
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Schillerstr. 6
04109 Leipzig

Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office)
Fax +49 341 9737 148







From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Sep 24 13:36:57 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 20 13:36:57 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK SERIES
Message-ID: <1BA82CCE-3E05-4F5F-B820-5883E9C72821@austin.utexas.edu>

With apologies for cross listing, I want to share with you all a bit of good news in these dark times: the launch of a new book series funded by The Rosane and Ludo Rocher Foundation. Please note that we are casting the net very wide, and books in all fields of pre-modern South Asian studies are welcome. I give below the official description of the series.

Please spread the word.

Thanks.

Patrick


The Ludo and Rosane Rocher Foundation is initiating a series titled ?The Rocher Indology Series? to be published by Oxford University Press New York. Our intent is to publish first-rate and cutting-edge research in any area relating to the study of India's pre-modern past. We expect the volumes in the series to represent true advances in the field. The range of subjects will include textual studies, taking "text" to mean not just literary productions, but also inscriptions, archives, and documents in any form, including art and artifacts. They will also comprise archeology and music, and embrace understudied areas such as mathematics, astronomy, medicine, food sciences, and the natural sciences. Besides monographs, the series will include critical editions of unedited or inadequately edited pre-modern texts, translations of untranslated or inadequately translated pre-modern texts, and histories of the field of Indology and of its practitioners. We hope that the series will help grow the field not only in depth, but also in breadth and diversity. Through this publication series, the Foundation wishes to foster broad assessments of the state of Indological knowledge and prospects in the study of issues/periods/areas across multiple modes of documentation and perspectives.
Questions and proposals should be addressed to the Foundation?s General Editor, Dr. J. Patrick Olivelle jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>




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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Sep 24 14:04:55 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 20 14:04:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK SERIES
In-Reply-To: <1BA82CCE-3E05-4F5F-B820-5883E9C72821@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4396DD514FAD84A6F110E0D8A1390@DM6PR11MB4396.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

wonderful news! Kudos to the Rochers!

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:36 AM
To: Indology Indology listserve <indology at list.indology.info>; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ <risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>; dharmasastra-studies at googlegroups.com Studies <dharmasastra-studies at googlegroups.com>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] NEW BOOK SERIES

With apologies for cross listing, I want to share with you all a bit of good news in these dark times: the launch of a new book series funded by The Rosane and Ludo Rocher Foundation. Please note that we are casting the net very wide, and books in all fields of pre-modern South Asian studies are welcome. I give below the official description of the series.

Please spread the word.

Thanks.

Patrick




The Ludo and Rosane Rocher Foundation is initiating a series titled ?The Rocher Indology Series? to be published by Oxford University Press New York. Our intent is to publish first-rate and cutting-edge research in any area relating to the study of India's pre-modern past. We expect the volumes in the series to represent true advances in the field. The range of subjects will include textual studies, taking "text" to mean not just literary productions, but also inscriptions, archives, and documents in any form, including art and artifacts. They will also comprise archeology and music, and embrace understudied areas such as mathematics, astronomy, medicine, food sciences, and the natural sciences. Besides monographs, the series will include critical editions of unedited or inadequately edited pre-modern texts, translations of untranslated or inadequately translated pre-modern texts, and histories of the field of Indology and of its practitioners. We hope that the series will help grow the field not only in depth, but also in breadth and diversity. Through this publication series, the Foundation wishes to foster broad assessments of the state of Indological knowledge and prospects in the study of issues/periods/areas across multiple modes of documentation and perspectives.

Questions and proposals should be addressed to the Foundation?s General Editor, Dr. J. Patrick Olivelle jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>






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From arfalques at cantab.net  Fri Sep 25 04:39:33 2020
From: arfalques at cantab.net (=?utf-8?Q?Aleix_Ruiz_Falqu=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 06:39:33 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Saroja_Bhate,_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini's_Taddhita_Rules?=
Message-ID: <CAOCtTAtm8TVEEbLDHrdWk953UOktmjTU_CYcZfpHCkV6gNXBNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

I would be very grateful if someone could share a pdf of Saroja Bhate's
book *P??ini's Taddhita Rules*. I have been trying to find a hard copy to
buy, but it seems impossible.

Many thanks and best wishes,
Aleix

-- 
Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
Pali Lecturer
Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
Shan State Buddhist University
Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
(+95) 09428757648


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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 08:03:17 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 10:03:17 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Saroja_Bhate,_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini's_Taddhita_Rules?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOCtTAtm8TVEEbLDHrdWk953UOktmjTU_CYcZfpHCkV6gNXBNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKA8X43h-FuX1_bAz_oBAQ-9AXi_8Ld+mpcF8Zvhyfi4huozqQ@mail.gmail.com>

I would also like a copy if possible

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 6:40 AM Aleix Ruiz Falqu?s via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I would be very grateful if someone could share a pdf of Saroja Bhate's
> book *P??ini's Taddhita Rules*. I have been trying to find a hard copy to
> buy, but it seems impossible.
>
> Many thanks and best wishes,
> Aleix
>
> --
> Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
> Pali Lecturer
> Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
> Shan State Buddhist University
> Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
> (+95) 09428757648
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 25 09:47:20 2020
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 11:47:20 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Princes Niwal Dai
Message-ID: <CALNcvFs6+fTCRNT5r2FVUzCPaaDDRPXSs3qOyZbdHfPJkLLuJw@mail.gmail.com>

Temple, Richard C.,
The Legends of the Panjab, Vol. I (No XVI,
Princess Niwal Da?, As sung by two scavengers from Bibiy?l village near
Amb?l?),
pp. 418 ? 528, Bombay 1884 [Reprints: 1962, 1977]

Is there any other version of the text - somewhere in the indological
archives?

Artur Karp

PS. My Polish translation:

https://www.academia.edu/38037813/C?rka_Tysi?ca_W???w_?ahr_Safidon_ki_Kahani?fbclid=IwAR18rN9uD0CjU0Ft67R-FxuYoJV7ZQp_30N-ahfOhRd9xgp6XyQyOMp_3_o

Artur K.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Wolny
od wirus?w. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 09:52:49 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 15:22:49 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Saroja_Bhate,_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini's_Taddhita_Rules?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOCtTAtm8TVEEbLDHrdWk953UOktmjTU_CYcZfpHCkV6gNXBNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYKxfoNJ8tLV6JC7iLdgx0vHfApXWdvpFy+TAn9WDBUmA@mail.gmail.com>

She is a member of the BVP list.

I will ask her to share if she can.

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:10 AM Aleix Ruiz Falqu?s via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I would be very grateful if someone could share a pdf of Saroja Bhate's
> book *P??ini's Taddhita Rules*. I have been trying to find a hard copy to
> buy, but it seems impossible.
>
> Many thanks and best wishes,
> Aleix
>
> --
> Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
> Pali Lecturer
> Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
> Shan State Buddhist University
> Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
> (+95) 09428757648
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 25 09:53:23 2020
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 11:53:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Princess Niwal Dai
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsuPObCNrLx7P-OYxs9WaLCG9Ewef07Yv4v6arKjGrcpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Temple, Richard C.,
The Legends of the Panjab, Vol. I (No XVI,
Princess Niwal Da?, As sung by two scavengers from Bibiy?l village near
Amb?l?),
418 ? 528, Bombay 1884 [Reprints: 1962, 1977]

Is there any other version of the text - somewhere in the indological
archives?

Artur Karp

PS. My Polish translation:

https://www.academia.edu/38037813/C?rka_Tysi?ca_W???w_?ahr_Safidon_ki_Kahani?fbclid=IwAR18rN9uD0CjU0Ft67R-FxuYoJV7ZQp_30N-ahfOhRd9xgp6XyQyOMp_3_o

Artur K.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Wolny
od wirus?w. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 10:39:50 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 12:39:50 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Saroja_Bhate,_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini's_Taddhita_Rules?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYKxfoNJ8tLV6JC7iLdgx0vHfApXWdvpFy+TAn9WDBUmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKA8X41ZUQeF1kofqVaw=acXsU0vr1HA4QsyEtomPszXcAA3+A@mail.gmail.com>

It would also be great if we might be able to access pdfs of their other
works:
Fundamentals of Anuvrtti
and
The Role of the Particle ea,

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 11:54 AM Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> She is a member of the BVP list.
>
> I will ask her to share if she can.
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:10 AM Aleix Ruiz Falqu?s via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I would be very grateful if someone could share a pdf of Saroja Bhate's
>> book *P??ini's Taddhita Rules*. I have been trying to find a hard copy
>> to buy, but it seems impossible.
>>
>> Many thanks and best wishes,
>> Aleix
>>
>> --
>> Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
>> Pali Lecturer
>> Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
>> Shan State Buddhist University
>> Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
>> (+95) 09428757648
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From arfalques at cantab.net  Fri Sep 25 12:43:32 2020
From: arfalques at cantab.net (=?utf-8?Q?Aleix_Ruiz_Falqu=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 14:43:32 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Saroja_Bhate,_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini's_Taddhita_Rules?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYKxfoNJ8tLV6JC7iLdgx0vHfApXWdvpFy+TAn9WDBUmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCtTAuWqu2tZCHbBA_bZdF__jVEfsw-JSzMEzE8FwdA7GSBww@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Prof. Nagaraj Paturi,

Thank you very much. I would actually like to buy a hard copy of the book
for our university library. If anyone in the list could help me, I would
appreciate.

Best wishes,
Aleix

On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 11:52, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> She is a member of the BVP list.
>
> I will ask her to share if she can.
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 10:10 AM Aleix Ruiz Falqu?s via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I would be very grateful if someone could share a pdf of Saroja Bhate's
>> book *P??ini's Taddhita Rules*. I have been trying to find a hard copy
>> to buy, but it seems impossible.
>>
>> Many thanks and best wishes,
>> Aleix
>>
>> --
>> Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
>> Pali Lecturer
>> Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
>> Shan State Buddhist University
>> Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
>> (+95) 09428757648
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
Pali Lecturer
Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
Shan State Buddhist University
Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
(+95) 09428757648


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Fri Sep 25 15:19:39 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 15:19:39 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
Message-ID: <55BF25BB-412E-4A7B-9050-290FD65BE245@wlu.edu>

Dear TeXies on the list,

My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.

So far as I can see from
https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
 https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.

Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at this late stage in the process.

With fingers crossed,
Tim


Timothy Lubin
Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
204 Tucker Hall
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450
American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
https://ssrn.com/author=930949
https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy




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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 19:11:50 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 13:11:50 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <55BF25BB-412E-4A7B-9050-290FD65BE245@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcvX8r8aagk0Vwtu5vnXkfPvjcdJYEp=QM5y7o17nVD3g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Tim,

The good news is that you won't have to retype anything, because the more
recent XeLaTeX system can be set up to read Velthuis transliteration and
turn it into lovely Devanagari.  Here's a minimum working example
<https://cikitsa.blogspot.com/2020/09/simple-example-of-using-xelatex-for.html>.
TeX does this in one pass, and the devnag processor is not required.

About the Mac, I'm completely in the dark.  Sorry!  But TeXlive (the main
distribution from TUG) does say it works on MacOS
<https://www.tug.org/texlive/>.  (click macOS <https://www.tug.org/mactex/>
),

Dominik



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Fri Sep 25 19:22:47 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 19:22:47 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcvX8r8aagk0Vwtu5vnXkfPvjcdJYEp=QM5y7o17nVD3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <378C0988-68FF-4666-B307-AF83C52D03B3@wlu.edu>

Thank to Jim, Peter, and now Dominik,

Somehow I missed this new capability of XeLaTex. I have been using TeXShop and TeXlive on Mac all along, but I did not realize that the preprocessor was no longer needed if I invoked the new XeLaTeX properly.  I?ll give it a try!

Best,
Tim

Timothy Lubin
Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
204 Tucker Hall
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450
American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
https://ssrn.com/author=930949
https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy



From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
Date: Friday, September 25, 2020 at 3:12 PM
To: "Lubin, Tim" <LubinT at wlu.edu>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems

Dear Tim,

The good news is that you won't have to retype anything, because the more recent XeLaTeX system can be set up to read Velthuis transliteration and turn it into lovely Devanagari.  Here's a minimum working example<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcikitsa.blogspot.com%2F2020%2F09%2Fsimple-example-of-using-xelatex-for.html&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262114972&sdata=wrFktqjnI8yxKxmgMXQ9IN5ALHtoq0%2F7VeTFEnBLvio%3D&reserved=0>.  TeX does this in one pass, and the devnag processor is not required.

About the Mac, I'm completely in the dark.  Sorry!  But TeXlive (the main distribution from TUG) does say it works on MacOS<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tug.org%2Ftexlive%2F&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262124967&sdata=S19KRVIrdMbYbmuxNa4NQS7Mvwt0WGWDyPxZ0Vj2wKI%3D&reserved=0>.  (click macOS<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tug.org%2Fmactex%2F&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262124967&sdata=%2FWzpNmYrEe9I6wea1aDVO6%2F5i8AcpUe8GrEFr7YwHps%3D&reserved=0>),

Dominik



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.ualberta.ca%2Fdirectory%2Fperson%2Fwujastyk&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262134959&sdata=V%2FrPbBWKq%2BbbPYmhgpFdDXc4LFEaSx8ckGfY3NvGfKU%3D&reserved=0>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistoryandclassics.ualberta.ca%2F&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262134959&sdata=6NEavBoga14%2BZHkK13vDHhpfBblche8xM%2BCLk5dECs4%3D&reserved=0>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsas.ualberta.ca%2F&data=02%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C6234a563e96347f64ece08d86186e3be%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637366579262144951&sdata=Vkdz0hGkrUd6V9gzXR3uwwxdXU%2FOEy2zsfFjR6fOXKU%3D&reserved=0>



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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 20:04:47 2020
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 16:04:47 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <55BF25BB-412E-4A7B-9050-290FD65BE245@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <BEE1FADF-A1A4-4496-9012-B7CB5405BDEC@gmail.com>

Dear Tim,

You can use RomDev available at https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ <https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/> and MacTex/TexLive mentioned in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3 pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com <https://cikitsa.blogspot.com/> (Dominik?s site).

Best,

Elliot



> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear TeXies on the list,
>  
> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>  
> So far as I can see from
> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html <https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html>
>  https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html <https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html>
> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.  
>  
> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at this late stage in the process.
>  
> With fingers crossed,
> Tim
>  
>  
> Timothy Lubin
> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> 204 Tucker Hall
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
> 
> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
> 
> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ <https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/> 
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin <http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin> 
> https://ssrn.com/author=930949 <https://ssrn.com/author=930949>
> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy <https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy>
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com
267-240-8418





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From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Sat Sep 26 01:24:42 2020
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 21:24:42 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
Message-ID: <cec045a6-aa97-1f33-6c49-bcfc2830c72c@sas.upenn.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

Please allow me to announce a new publication:

Rosane Rocher, with Agnes Stache-Weiske, /For the Sake of the Vedas. The 
Anglo-German Life of Friedrich Rosen 1805?1837,
/Abhandlungen f?r die Kunde des Morgenlandes, vol. 118, XX?396 pages, 
ISBN 978-3-447-11448-6, available in printed paperback form and as e-book.
https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/For_the_Sake_of_the_Vedas/title_6630.ahtml 


?If it were not for the Vedas, the university alone would not keep me in 
London? I like to compare myself to an Indian muni, who forsakes other 
concerns for a while to read the Vedas in peace and attain Indra?s 
heaven, which in my case might be some German university.? Friedrich 
Rosen thus wrote his teacher Bopp in 1830. Drawing primarily from a vast 
correspondence, most of it unpublished, this biography documents and 
analyzes his resolve and its impact on the rise of European Indology. 
The works of this first PhD in Sanskrit at a German university and first 
professor of Sanskrit at a British university include the first edition 
and translation of the first book of the Rigveda, with notes incomplete 
at his untimely death, and the first edition and translation of the 
oldest Arabic treatise on algebra. Yet more momentous was the help Rosen 
gave to continental scholars from Humboldt, Schlegel, and Burnouf to 
beginners, with sources uniquely accessible in England. He also 
exercised his influence on the Oriental Translation Fund to publish 
their works as models of critical and comparative scholarship. His 
mentor Humboldt acknowledged ?I can only deeply regret that we ? must be 
deprived of your presence. Yet, it is definitely of greater benefit for 
you, and even more for scholarship, that you remain so many years close 
to the sources of the works to which you are devoting yourself.?

With all best wishes,
Rosane Rocher


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Sat Sep 26 02:23:40 2020
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 20 16:23:40 -1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
In-Reply-To: <cec045a6-aa97-1f33-6c49-bcfc2830c72c@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVpG3Tgjt3d+eAsTbtKBApb5FiFH3_Jio_PK4dMskvKqg@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations! I can't wait to read this. ????????????,J


On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 3:25 PM Rosane Rocher via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Please allow me to announce a new publication:
>
> Rosane Rocher, with Agnes Stache-Weiske,
> *For the Sake of the Vedas. The Anglo-German Life of Friedrich Rosen
> 1805?1837, *Abhandlungen f?r die Kunde des Morgenlandes, vol. 118, XX?396
> pages, ISBN 978-3-447-11448-6, available in printed paperback form and as
> e-book.
>
> https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/For_the_Sake_of_the_Vedas/title_6630.ahtml
>
> ?If it were not for the Vedas, the university alone would not keep me in
> London? I like to compare myself to an Indian muni, who forsakes other
> concerns for a while to read the Vedas in peace and attain Indra?s heaven,
> which in my case might be some German university.? Friedrich Rosen thus
> wrote his teacher Bopp in 1830. Drawing primarily from a vast
> correspondence, most of it unpublished, this biography documents and
> analyzes his resolve and its impact on the rise of European Indology. The
> works of this first PhD in Sanskrit at a German university and first
> professor of Sanskrit at a British university include the first edition and
> translation of the first book of the Rigveda, with notes incomplete at his
> untimely death, and the first edition and translation of the oldest Arabic
> treatise on algebra. Yet more momentous was the help Rosen gave to
> continental scholars from Humboldt, Schlegel, and Burnouf to beginners,
> with sources uniquely accessible in England. He also exercised his
> influence on the Oriental Translation Fund to publish their works as models
> of critical and comparative scholarship. His mentor Humboldt acknowledged
> ?I can only deeply regret that we ? must be deprived of your presence. Yet,
> it is definitely of greater benefit for you, and even more for scholarship,
> that you remain so many years close to the sources of the works to which
> you are devoting yourself.?
>
> With all best wishes,
> Rosane Rocher
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature
& Chair
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i, M?noa
461 Spalding


It is creative apperception more than anything else that makes the
individual feel that life is worth living. Contrasted with this is a
relationship to external reality which is one of compliance, the world and
its details being recognized but only as something to be fitted in with or
demanding adaptation. Compliance carries with it a sense of futility for
the individual and is associated with the idea that nothing matters and
that life is not worth living. In a tantalizing way many individuals have
experienced just enough creative living to recognize that for most of their
time they are living uncreatively, as if caught up in the creativity of
someone else, or of a machine.--Donald Winnicott, *Playing and Reality*


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From s.adluri16 at csuohio.edu  Sat Sep 26 16:41:49 2020
From: s.adluri16 at csuohio.edu (Sucharita Adluri)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 20 16:41:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
In-Reply-To: <cec045a6-aa97-1f33-6c49-bcfc2830c72c@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <DM6PR08MB567593A0AC1C4F0DC80868B199370@DM6PR08MB5675.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Warmest congratulations on your publication!!

Regards
Sucharita



________________________________

Sucharita  Adluri

Associate Professor

Department of Philosophy and Comparative Religion

Cleveland State University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Rosane Rocher via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:24 PM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>; weiske.agnes at gmail.com <weiske.agnes at gmail.com>; hanneder at staff.uni-marburg.de <hanneder at staff.uni-marburg.de>; bkrauss at harrassowitz.de <bkrauss at harrassowitz.de>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Cleveland State University! Do not click links, open attachments or reply, unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the content is safe!
Dear Colleagues,

Please allow me to announce a new publication:

Rosane Rocher, with Agnes Stache-Weiske, For the Sake of the Vedas. The Anglo-German Life of Friedrich Rosen 1805?1837,
Abhandlungen f?r die Kunde des Morgenlandes, vol. 118, XX?396 pages, ISBN 978-3-447-11448-6, available in printed paperback form and as e-book.
https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/For_the_Sake_of_the_Vedas/title_6630.ahtml

?If it were not for the Vedas, the university alone would not keep me in London? I like to compare myself to an Indian muni, who forsakes other concerns for a while to read the Vedas in peace and attain Indra?s heaven, which in my case might be some German university.? Friedrich Rosen thus wrote his teacher Bopp in 1830. Drawing primarily from a vast correspondence, most of it unpublished, this biography documents and analyzes his resolve and its impact on the rise of European Indology. The works of this first PhD in Sanskrit at a German university and first professor of Sanskrit at a British university include the first edition and translation of the first book of the Rigveda, with notes incomplete at his untimely death, and the first edition and translation of the oldest Arabic treatise on algebra. Yet more momentous was the help Rosen gave to continental scholars from Humboldt, Schlegel, and Burnouf to beginners, with sources uniquely accessible in England. He also exercised his influence on the Oriental Translation Fund to publish their works as models of critical and comparative scholarship. His mentor Humboldt acknowledged ?I can only deeply regret that we ? must be deprived of your presence. Yet, it is definitely of greater benefit for you, and even more for scholarship, that you remain so many years close to the sources of the works to which you are devoting yourself.?

With all best wishes,
Rosane Rocher


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From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Sun Sep 27 14:54:05 2020
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 20 16:54:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] IASS Honorary Research Fellowship for 2021
Message-ID: <20200927165405.Horde.eLsAOmzdKgg6H9sUsQBDewP@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

Dear Colleagues,
With apologies for cross-posting:

  The IASS (International Association of Sanskrit Studies) initiated  
this Fellowship in 2019 and it is a pleasure now to be be able to  
announce it again for next year, 2021.
?

  Any paying member of the IASS is eligible for the HRF, if the  
scholar has received a PhD in Sanskrit or allied studies in the last  
five years.

The HRF is for research work to be conducted in South Asia for a  
period of at least two weeks in any field related to Sanskrit and  
allied studies.?/If travel in 2021 becomes impossible because of  
Covid-19, an alternative may be proposed, for example, an online  
conference with experts in India in the chosen field./

The Honorary Research Fellowship, valued at 1000 Euros, will be  
announced annually, providing the IASS budget is able to sustain the  
expense.

  The DEADLINE for the written project proposal is 31 DECEMBER 2020.  
Please submit proof of IASS membership for this year 2020: scan of  
email or receipt from the Treasurer of the IASS.

Please send all proposals and/or queries to Associate Professor  
McComas Taylor of the IASS:
McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au

  See the details of the Award here:
http://www.sanskritassociation.org/images/pdf/IASS-Honorary-Research-Fellowship.pdf
?

  A reminder of the 2021 HRF will be sent by the end of November 2021.

  Thank you.
J. Soni
Secretary General of the IASS. The website of the IASS:  
http://www.sanskritassociation.org/index.php

  IASS Membership details are here:  
http://www.sanskritassociation.org/membership.php, including the  
membership form for downloading.

  Previous Winners of the HRF:

  2020: Dr Iris Iran Farkhondeh for her proposal on??The diachronic  
study of Sanskrit manuscripts in the ??rad? script?.

  2019:??Dr Lauren Bausch, Dharma Realm Buddhist University, for her  
proposal on the ?Vedic philosophy of lan?guage according to the  
Br?hma?a texts?.


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 03:36:27 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 20 21:36:27 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <BEE1FADF-A1A4-4496-9012-B7CB5405BDEC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfmNBDWyT4_CNgtORf+aU6r5ni8PQ-7jdLQv7aqGMvwDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to
turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.

But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't
checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:

   - https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev

The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite
easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation
(Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST
translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say

Mapping=iast,

and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and
the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel
Stender.

   - https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en

But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems
that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Tim,
>
> You can use RomDev available at https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and
> MacTex/TexLive mentioned in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a
> Mac since 2013, when I could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce
> texts longer than 2 or 3 pages. I also found articles at
> https://cikitsa.blogspot.com (Dominik?s site).
>
> Best,
>
> Elliot
>
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear TeXies on the list,
>
> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot
> run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to
> generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them
> for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update
> laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a
> temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX,
> so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>
> So far as I can see from
> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>  https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.
>
> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this
> problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using
> MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at
> this late stage in the process.
>
> With fingers crossed,
> Tim
>
>
>
> Timothy Lubin
> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> 204 Tucker Hall
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>
> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
>
> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> Elliot M. Stern
> 552 South 48th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
> emstern1948 at gmail.com
> 267-240-8418
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Sep 28 05:00:45 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 20 22:00:45 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CfmNBDWyT4_CNgtORf+aU6r5ni8PQ-7jdLQv7aqGMvwDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfAmLXWwrKoU5FT-0kNaBRK8dpvh6mp2AwFAhBwMSZsrA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the
past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of
Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode
Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now
thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with
Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences
of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to
> turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.
>
> But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't
> checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:
>
>    - https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev
>
> The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite
> easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation
> (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST
> translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say
>
> Mapping=iast,
>
> and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and
> the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel
> Stender.
>
>    - https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en
>
> But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems
> that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tim,
>>
>> You can use RomDev available at
>> https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned
>> in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I
>> could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3
>> pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com (Dominik?s
>> site).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Elliot
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Dear TeXies on the list,
>>
>> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot
>> run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to
>> generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them
>> for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update
>> laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a
>> temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX,
>> so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>>
>> So far as I can see from
>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>>
>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
>> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.
>>
>> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this
>> problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using
>> MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at
>> this late stage in the process.
>>
>> With fingers crossed,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> Timothy Lubin
>> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
>> 204 Tucker Hall
>> Washington and Lee University
>> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>>
>> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
>> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
>>
>> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
>> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
>> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
>> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> Elliot M. Stern
>> 552 South 48th Street
>> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
>> emstern1948 at gmail.com
>> 267-240-8418
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 28 09:50:17 2020
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 09:50:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Journal of Oriental Institute
In-Reply-To: <1556333116.1499416.1601286617395.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1556333116.1499416.1601286617395@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Members
Attached herewith the guidelines to submit research article for publication in the Journal of Oriental Institute. Learned members are requested to submit the article and give it a wider spread.??
Dr. Sweta PrajapatiDirector (I/C)Oriental InstituteOpp. Palace Gate,Palace Road,Baroda - 390001M: +91 9898472669E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com


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From jmmadaio at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 13:20:46 2020
From: jmmadaio at gmail.com (J M)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 15:20:46 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job Announcement: Head Librarian, Oriental Institute, Czech Academy of Sciences
Message-ID: <CAJZ7h_y7nCrxoUjpOOeb-sxs=yTwGAOHK-oOADWY9+RcwK0HeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Apologies for cross-posting.

Please see below a job announcement for a head librarian position at the
Oriental Institute of the Czech Academy of Sciences. Inquiries should be
directed to Jakub Hruby (hruby at orient.cas.cz).

***

The Oriental Institute of the Czech Academy of Sciences is seeking an
experienced and motivated individual to serve as Head Librarian of its
300,000+ volume library based in Prague, Czech Republic. The Head
Librarian?s primary duties will be to oversee day-to-day operations of the
library, supervise cataloguing and retro-cataloguing of the library
holdings, monitor new acquisitions, and identify and manage special
collections. International applicants with knowledge of one or more of the
languages, cultures, and histories related to the Oriental Institute?s
sub-fields (Middle East, South Asia, East and Southeast Asia, Central Asia)
are encouraged to apply.

Deadline: November 8, 2020. For more information and to apply, see here
<http://www.orient.cas.cz/miranda2/m2/akce/aktuality/2020/Head-Librarian-Oriental-Institute-Library_Job-Announcement_Deadline-Nov-8TH.pdf>
.

***

All best wishes,

James Madaio
-
Dr. James Madaio
Fellow, Oriental Institute, Czech Academy of Sciences
Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Associate Editor, Journal of Hindu Studies
<https://academic.oup.com/jhs> (Oxford
University Press)
Regional Editor (Indic Traditions), Bloomsbury Introductions to World
Philosophies
<https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/superpage/introductions-to-world-philosophies/>

<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Mon Sep 28 13:30:13 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 13:30:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfAmLXWwrKoU5FT-0kNaBRK8dpvh6mp2AwFAhBwMSZsrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E8C1AF-A698-4BEA-9321-66BA0697CBCF@austin.utexas.edu>

Madhav and all:

My new editions of the Y?j?avlkya Sm?ti, for which I prepared camera-ready copy, was done on Mac Pages. I think that is the best for Devanagari writing on a Mac, and has all the formatting tools that Word has.

Patrick




On Sep 28, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.

But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:

  *   https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev

The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say

Mapping=iast,

and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel Stender.

  *   https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en

But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Tim,

You can use RomDev available at https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3 pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com<https://cikitsa.blogspot.com/> (Dominik?s site).

Best,

Elliot



On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear TeXies on the list,

My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.

So far as I can see from
https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
 https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.

Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at this late stage in the process.

With fingers crossed,
Tim


Timothy Lubin
Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
204 Tucker Hall
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450
American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
https://ssrn.com/author=930949
https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<



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From collinb1 at ohio.edu  Mon Sep 28 15:01:17 2020
From: collinb1 at ohio.edu (Collins, Brian)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 15:01:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rajaram Narayan Saletore
Message-ID: <8C2B14FA-C0B4-48EA-9234-58C55E8441B4@ohio.edu>

Dear List,

Does anyone know of any biographical sources about Rajaram Narayan Saletore, the prolific author who wrote about Indian witchcraft, Indian pirates, Indian sex lives and a lot of other things?

Thanks!


Brian

Assoc. Prof. Brian Collins
Department Chair and Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy
Author, The Other R?ma: Matricide and Genocide in the Mythology of Para?ur?ma<http://www.sunypress.edu/p-6920-the-other-rma.aspx> (SUNY Press, 2020)
Author, Robert Eisler and the Magic of the Combinatory Mind: The Forgotten Life of a 20th Century Polymath<https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9783030612283> (Palgrave Pivot, 2020)
Editor, Bollywood Horrors: Religion, Violence, and Cinematic Fears in India<https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/bollywood-horrors-9781350143159/> (Bloomsbury Academic, 2021)
Host and Creator, A Very Square Peg: A Podcast About Robert Eisler<https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/nbn-special-series/very-square-peg/>





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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 20:40:12 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 14:40:12 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfAmLXWwrKoU5FT-0kNaBRK8dpvh6mp2AwFAhBwMSZsrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf28jJYsWyke+wB_YRUUb3py+Cs4277KVgfS0P09WzODA@mail.gmail.com>

What's wrong with using LibreOffice, if it works for you, Madhav?

I'm surprised to hear all this, since Apple's early success in academic
circles was helped by its reputation as a multilingual machine.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 at 23:01, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the
> past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of
> Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode
> Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now
> thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with
> Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences
> of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to
>> turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.
>>
>> But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't
>> checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:
>>
>>    - https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev
>>
>> The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite
>> easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation
>> (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST
>> translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say
>>
>> Mapping=iast,
>>
>> and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and
>> the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel
>> Stender.
>>
>>    - https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en
>>
>> But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems
>> that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
>> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
>> ,
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ,
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ,
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> .
>>
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> sas.ualberta.ca
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Tim,
>>>
>>> You can use RomDev available at
>>> https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned
>>> in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I
>>> could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3
>>> pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com (Dominik?s
>>> site).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Elliot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear TeXies on the list,
>>>
>>> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which
>>> cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a
>>> preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going
>>> to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes,
>>> I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is
>>> inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in
>>> LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>>>
>>> So far as I can see from
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>>>
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
>>> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.
>>>
>>> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this
>>> problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using
>>> MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at
>>> this late stage in the process.
>>>
>>> With fingers crossed,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Timothy Lubin
>>> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
>>> 204 Tucker Hall
>>> Washington and Lee University
>>> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>>>
>>> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
>>> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
>>>
>>> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
>>> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
>>> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
>>> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> Elliot M. Stern
>>> 552 South 48th Street
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
>>> emstern1948 at gmail.com
>>> 267-240-8418
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 21:12:57 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 15:12:57 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rajaram Narayan Saletore
In-Reply-To: <8C2B14FA-C0B4-48EA-9234-58C55E8441B4@ohio.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf_YTkOzDfcHG-moTJhcNyjh=OJ035JSx9YNd=JjrWZdg@mail.gmail.com>

This is on the flyleaf of the Encyclopedia:

[image: image.png]

The A&W Who's Who would presumably give more detail.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 at 09:02, Collins, Brian via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> Does anyone know of any biographical sources about Rajaram Narayan
> Saletore, the prolific author who wrote about Indian witchcraft, Indian
> pirates, Indian sex lives and a lot of other things?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Brian
>
> Assoc. Prof. Brian Collins
> Department Chair and Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion
> and Philosophy
> Author, *The Other R?ma: Matricide and Genocide in the Mythology of
> Para?ur?ma <http://www.sunypress.edu/p-6920-the-other-rma.aspx> *(SUNY
> Press, 2020)
> Author, *Robert Eisler and the Magic of the Combinatory Mind: The
> Forgotten Life of a 20th Century Polymath
> <https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9783030612283> *(Palgrave Pivot, 2020)
> Editor, *Bollywood Horrors:* *Religion,** Violence, and Cinematic Fears
> in India* <https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/bollywood-horrors-9781350143159/>
>  (Bloomsbury Academic, 2021)
> Host and Creator,* A Very Square Peg: A Podcast About Robert Eisler
> <https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/nbn-special-series/very-square-peg/>*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From tubb at uchicago.edu  Mon Sep 28 22:29:57 2020
From: tubb at uchicago.edu (Gary A. Tubb)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 22:29:57 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfAmLXWwrKoU5FT-0kNaBRK8dpvh6mp2AwFAhBwMSZsrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018B8119-684A-4AC9-9446-FA130C713415@uchicago.edu>

Dear Madhav,

I had the same frustrating problem until a colleague advised me to update my version of Word for Mac.  I changed from version 14.6.6 to version 16.41, and now everything works fine.  Although it?s still Microsoft.

Yours,
Gary.

-----
Gary Tubb, Anupama and Guru Ramakrishnan Professor
Chair, Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations
The University of Chicago





On Sep 28, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.

But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:

  *   https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev

The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say

Mapping=iast,

and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel Stender.

  *   https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en

But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.


South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Tim,

You can use RomDev available at https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3 pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com<https://cikitsa.blogspot.com/> (Dominik?s site).

Best,

Elliot



On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear TeXies on the list,

My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.

So far as I can see from
https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
 https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.

Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at this late stage in the process.

With fingers crossed,
Tim


Timothy Lubin
Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
204 Tucker Hall
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450
American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
https://ssrn.com/author=930949
https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Sep 29 00:10:16 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 17:10:16 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <018B8119-684A-4AC9-9446-FA130C713415@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdk4XSjc3j1r8oUL9kodfjmqZqJkjCYn6P5U2S-RKeTQA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Dominik and Gary,

     I just tried LibreOffice and it opened my Word file without major
distortions.  So that is one option.  Will try to update my Word for Mac as
suggested by Gary and see if that alleviates my problems with Devanagari.
I think the problem is not so much with Apple, but with Word for Mac.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 3:30 PM Gary A. Tubb <tubb at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
>
> I had the same frustrating problem until a colleague advised me to update
> my version of Word for Mac.  I changed from version 14.6.6 to version
> 16.41, and now everything works fine.  Although it?s still Microsoft.
>
> Yours,
> Gary.
>
> -----
> Gary Tubb, Anupama and Guru Ramakrishnan Professor
> Chair, Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations
> The University of Chicago
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the
> past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of
> Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode
> Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now
> thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with
> Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences
> of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to
>> turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.
>>
>> But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't
>> checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:
>>
>>    - https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev
>>
>> The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite
>> easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation
>> (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST
>> translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say
>>
>> Mapping=iast,
>>
>> and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and
>> the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel
>> Stender.
>>
>>    - https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en
>>
>> But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems
>> that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
>> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
>> ,
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ,
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ,
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> .
>>
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> sas.ualberta.ca
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Tim,
>>>
>>> You can use RomDev available at
>>> https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned
>>> in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I
>>> could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3
>>> pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com (Dominik?s
>>> site).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Elliot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear TeXies on the list,
>>>
>>> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which
>>> cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a
>>> preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going
>>> to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes,
>>> I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is
>>> inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in
>>> LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>>>
>>> So far as I can see from
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>>>
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
>>> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.
>>>
>>> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this
>>> problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using
>>> MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at
>>> this late stage in the process.
>>>
>>> With fingers crossed,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Timothy Lubin
>>> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
>>> 204 Tucker Hall
>>> Washington and Lee University
>>> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>>>
>>> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
>>> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
>>>
>>> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
>>> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
>>> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
>>> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> Elliot M. Stern
>>> 552 South 48th Street
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
>>> emstern1948 at gmail.com
>>> 267-240-8418
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Sep 29 00:17:05 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 20 17:17:05 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <018B8119-684A-4AC9-9446-FA130C713415@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdn8ait+As5+bM7+VE9L+no7ZmdXz48h6621T3Z5gqj0g@mail.gmail.com>

Gary, my Word for Mac version is 16.33 and it says that it is up-to-date,
and not offering the version 16.41, for some reason.  Will work on it. Best,

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 3:30 PM Gary A. Tubb <tubb at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
>
> I had the same frustrating problem until a colleague advised me to update
> my version of Word for Mac.  I changed from version 14.6.6 to version
> 16.41, and now everything works fine.  Although it?s still Microsoft.
>
> Yours,
> Gary.
>
> -----
> Gary Tubb, Anupama and Guru Ramakrishnan Professor
> Chair, Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations
> The University of Chicago
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> I don't use LaTeX, and have used MicroSoft Word for Devanagari in the
> past.  However, for some reason, while Word for Windows supports the use of
> Unicode Devanagari, Word for Mac OS does not support typing Unicode
> Devanagari. So I am left to work with OpenOffice and LibreOffice.  I am now
> thinking of installing Windows on my MacBook and see if I can work with
> Word for Windows on my MacBook.  I would appreciate to hear the experiences
> of Mac users with Unicode Devanagari. Best wishes,
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 8:37 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I like and use Somdev Vasudev's Romdev myself, for telling XeTeX how to
>> turn IAST encoding into Devanagari.  It does a great job.
>>
>> But don't get it from the indology archive.  Go to Github.  I haven't
>> checked, but I am pretty sure the Github version is more up-to-date:
>>
>>    - https://github.com/somadeva/RomDev
>>
>> The only thing is, you have to download it and install it.  That's quite
>> easy, if you know your computer well and love reading documentation
>> (Mmmm).  But the standard TeX distribution, TeXlive, has a ready-made IAST
>> translator already pre-installed, called, er, iast.  So one can say
>>
>> Mapping=iast,
>>
>> and it just works.  No installation necessary.  This iast translator, and
>> the velthuis one and a Harvard-Kyoto one, we owe to the kindness of Daniel
>> Stender.
>>
>>    - https://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/xetex/generic/devanagari?lang=en
>>
>> But this link is only for interest; it's already installed on all systems
>> that use TeXlive, so there's no need to fetch it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
>> <https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/wujastyk>
>> ,
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ,
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ,
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> .
>>
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> sas.ualberta.ca
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 14:05, Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Tim,
>>>
>>> You can use RomDev available at
>>> https://indology.info/etexts/archive/soft/ and MacTex/TexLive mentioned
>>> in Dominik?s posting. I have been using these on a Mac since 2013, when I
>>> could not coax MacDevnag and TexLive to produce texts longer than 2 or 3
>>> pages. I also found articles at https://cikitsa.blogspot.com (Dominik?s
>>> site).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Elliot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear TeXies on the list,
>>>
>>> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which
>>> cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a
>>> preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going
>>> to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes,
>>> I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is
>>> inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in
>>> LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>>>
>>> So far as I can see from
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>>>
>>> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
>>> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.
>>>
>>> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this
>>> problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using
>>> MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at
>>> this late stage in the process.
>>>
>>> With fingers crossed,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Timothy Lubin
>>> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
>>> 204 Tucker Hall
>>> Washington and Lee University
>>> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>>>
>>> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
>>> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
>>>
>>> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/
>>> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
>>> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
>>> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> Elliot M. Stern
>>> 552 South 48th Street
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
>>> emstern1948 at gmail.com
>>> 267-240-8418
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Tue Sep 29 15:00:17 2020
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 20 17:00:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 2021 DK Award for Outstanding PhD Thesis on Sanskrit and Allied Studies: Deadline 31 January 2021
Message-ID: <20200929170017.Horde.qLYo0MkTL_TmXv5Ly01gxMs@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

Dear Colleagues,

  The IASS (International Association of Sanskrit Studies) offers  
three awards which can be seen  
here:?http://www.sanskritassociation.org/index.php, by clicking on  
?Awards? on the top bar.?

  Two of them are coupled with a World Sanskrit Conference (WSC),  
usually held every 3 years: Professor RK Sharma Award and the DK Award.

  With regard to the DK Award, however, the IASS has decided to keep  
to the original proposed date of the WSC in January 2021 (and not the  
now postponed date of January 2022). The main reason for this is to  
retain the three-year interval of the award.

  The DK Award for an outstanding doctoral thesis on Sanskrit and  
related studies was inaugurated in 2006 by the International  
Association of Sanskrit Studies at the World Sanskrit Conference in  
Edinburgh, in collaboration with DK Agencies, Delhi.

  The Award is for an outstanding PhD received in the period 2018-2020  
on Sanskrit and related studies. It is for a scholar who is based  
outside South Asia.

  As already said, the deadline for applications for the 2021 DK AWARD  
is 31st January 2020.

  Please write to the undersigned to show your interest.

  The IASS thanks Mr Ramesh Mittal of DK Agencies personally and DK  
Agencies as a firm for supporting Sanskrit scholarship in a generous  
way: One Thousand USD worth of books from DK Agencies.

  A reminder that the deadline is 31 December 2021 will be sent out in  
December 2020.

  Please see the details of the DK Award here:  
http://www.sanskritassociation.org/images/pdf/DK-Award.pdf

  /NOTE: The website will not be changed to say that the 2021 DK Award  
this time is NOT coupled with a WSC./

  yours sincerely,

  Jayandra Soni

  ------------------------------

  Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

  http://www.sanskritassociation.org

  jayandra.soni at sanskritassociation.org with a Cc to soni at staff.uni-marburg.de

  Previous DK awardees : Drs Wendy J. Phillips-Rodr?guez, Himal  
Trikha, Michael Slouber and Andrew Ollett.


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From kengo001 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 01:39:50 2020
From: kengo001 at gmail.com (Kengo Harimoto)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 20 10:39:50 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <55BF25BB-412E-4A7B-9050-290FD65BE245@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <113A7F66-3602-4035-A616-D85EDBFF4602@gmail.com>

Dear Tim and members of the list,

A bit late response but getting back to the original point? and just in case there still is a need to run devnag on a Mac? 

If you have the latest MacTeX that corresponds to TeXLive 2020, it installs the binary of devnag as part of the package. /usr/local/texlive/2020/bin/x86_64-darwin/devnag

It shows up as /Library/TeX/texbin/devnag. So, as long as /Library/TeX/texbin is in your PATH, it will run.

I discovered this by chance a few weeks ago, to my surprise. It works fine on Catalina.

Best,

-- 
Kengo

> On Sep 26, 2020, at 00:19, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear TeXies on the list,
>  
> My university is pushing me to update my Mac OS to Catalina, which cannot run 32-bit applications.  I am still using MacDevnag as a preprocessor to generate Devanagari output from my LaTeX files.  I am going to appease them for now by upgrading to Mojave, which can run 32-bit (yes, I am an update laggard, still running [Low] Sierra!), but that is inevitably just a temporary fix.  I confess to being only semi-literate in LaTeX and XeLaTeX, so I may have missed a crucial new development.
>  
> So far as I can see from
> https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/sanskrit.html
>  https://bdesgraupes.pagesperso-orange.fr/DocHTML/MacDevnagHelp/index.html
> there is no 64-bit version, and likely never will be.  
>  
> Those of you who are au courant, how should I be dealing with this problem.  Due to laggardliness, I am still finalizing a volume using MacDevnag and am reluctant to attempt to reconfigure things altogether at this late stage in the process.
>  
> With fingers crossed,
> Tim
>  
>  
> Timothy Lubin
> Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> 204 Tucker Hall
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
> 
> American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21
> National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21
> 
> https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ 
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin 
> https://ssrn.com/author=930949
> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy
> 
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)






From LubinT at wlu.edu  Wed Sep 30 19:24:16 2020
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 20 19:24:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems
In-Reply-To: <113A7F66-3602-4035-A616-D85EDBFF4602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF40512-3231-47B7-8DBC-C6D341B765F3@wlu.edu>

Thanks to Kengo and Elliot for follow-up advice. I have updated to MacTex2020, but my Velthuis-formatted dn files are still generating some errors. I?ll try to sort them out off list!

Best,
Tim

From: Kengo Harimoto <kengo001 at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 9:39 PM
To: "Lubin, Tim" <LubinT at wlu.edu>
Cc: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] MacDevnag on 64-bit systems

Dear Tim and members of the list,

A bit late response but getting back to the original point? and just in case there still is a need to run devnag on a Mac?

If you have the latest MacTeX that corresponds to TeXLive 2020, it installs the binary of devnag as part of the package. /usr/local/texlive/2020/bin/x86_64-darwin/devnag

It shows up as /Library/TeX/texbin/devnag. So, as long as /Library/TeX/texbin is in your PATH, it will run.

I discovered this by chance a few weeks ago, to my surprise. It works fine on Catalina.

Best,

--
Kengo



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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Wed Sep 30 21:51:56 2020
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 20 21:51:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit Lecturer Position, University of Texas at Austin
Message-ID: <DFCB8523-BAF5-4187-836D-1E57772F262A@austin.utexas.edu>

The Department of Asian Studies at the University of Texas at Austin<https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/asianstudies/> invites applications for a full-time lecturer in the Sanskrit language, to begin September 1st, 2021. The successful candidate will be responsible for teaching three courses per semester: first- and second-year Sanskrit and a third course in the applicant?s area of expertise, according to departmental needs. Located at the flagship campus of the University of Texas System, our department offers a congenial and exciting context for teaching and research in the classical languages and cultures of South Asia.

Qualifications
Candidates must have a minimum of a Master?s degree (Ph.D. is strongly preferred) in the Sanskrit language or in a closely-related field. A record of teaching excellence in the American university context is also strongly preferred. We are especially interested in candidates who will contribute to diversity and equal opportunity in higher education through their teaching, research, and service. The University of Texas at Austin is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action employer committed to a diverse faculty, staff, and student body. Women and minority candidates are strongly encouraged to apply. The successful candidate will be required to complete the Federal Employment Eligibility Verification form, I-9, and will be required to present acceptable and original documents to prove identity and authorization to work in the United States.

Application Instructions
Interested candidates are invited to upload via Interfolio<https://apply.interfolio.com/79010>: 1) a cover letter detailing their qualifications and teaching experience, 2) a detailed curriculum vitae that includes a list of three referees from whom we could solicit a recommendation at a later point. The deadline for applications is November 6, 2020. Please direct questions about the search to Prof. Don Davis (drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>) with the words ?Sanskrit search? in the subject line.

For additional application instructions, please contact Lucy Enniss (enniss.lucy at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:enniss.lucy at austin.utexas.edu>). If you do not have a dossier account with Interfolio, you will be prompted to create one prior to applying for the position. Assistance is available from Interfolio?s Customer Support: help at interfolio.com<mailto:help at interfolio.com> or call (877) 997-8807.

https://apply.interfolio.com/79010





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