From collinb1 at ohio.edu Thu Oct 1 14:00:32 2020 From: collinb1 at ohio.edu (Collins, Brian) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 20 14:00:32 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Publication_Announcement:_THE_OTHER_R=C4=80MA?= Message-ID: <0530E8D1-E00C-4376-9FE0-A8E136AC8D37@ohio.edu> Dear INDOLOGY List, With requisite apologies for cross-posting, I am pleased to announce the publication of The Other R?ma: Matricide and Genocide in the Mythology of Para?ur?ma (SUNY Series in Hindu Studies), now available in hardback and eBook formats: http://www.sunypress.edu/p-6920-the-other-rma.aspx The Other R?ma presents a systematic analysis of the myth cycle of Para?ur?ma (?R?ma with the Axe?), an avat?ra of Vi??u best known for decapitating his own mother and annihilating twenty-one generations of the K?atriya warrior caste in an extermination campaign frequently referred to as ?genocide? by modern scholars. Compared to R?ma and K???a, the other human forms of Vi??u, Para?ur?ma has a much darker reputation, with few temples devoted to him and scant worshippers. He has also attracted far less scholarly attention. But dozens of important castes and clans across the subcontinent claim Para?ur?ma as the originator of their bloodline, and his mother, Re?uk?, is worshipped in the form of a severed head throughout South India. Using the tools of comparative mythology and psychoanalysis, Brian Collins identifies three major motifs in the mythology of Para?ur?ma: his hybrid status as a Brahmin warrior, his act of matricide, and his bloody one-man war to cleanse the earth of K?atriyas. Collins considers a wide variety of representations of the myth, from its origins in the Mah?bh?rata to contemporary debates online. He also examines Para?ur?ma alongside the Wandering Jew of European legend and Psycho?s matricidal serial killer Norman Bates. He examines why mythmakers once elevated this transgressive and antisocial figure to the level of an avat?ra and why he still holds such fascination for a world that continues to grapple with mass killings and violence against women. Many thanks! Brian Assoc. Prof. Brian Collins Department Chair and Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy Author, The Other R?ma: Matricide and Genocide in the Mythology of Para?ur?ma (SUNY Press, 2020) Author, Robert Eisler and the Magic of the Combinatory Mind: The Forgotten Life of a 20th Century Polymath (Palgrave Pivot, 2021) Editor, Bollywood Horrors: Religion, Violence, and Cinematic Fears in India (Bloomsbury Academic, 2021) Host and Creator, A Very Square Peg: A Podcast About Robert Eisler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gavin.flood at theology.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 2 19:08:54 2020 From: gavin.flood at theology.ox.ac.uk (Gavin Flood) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 20 19:08:54 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu Practice Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce the publication of the following: The Oxford History of Hinduism: Hindu Practice https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-history-of-hinduism-hindu-practice-9780198733508?q=Gavin%20Flood&lang=en&cc=gb Kind regards, Gavin Flood ----------------------------------------------------------------- Professor Gavin Flood FBA Senior Research Fellow, Campion Hall, Oxford University Professor of Hindu Studies and Comparative Religion, Oxford University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de Sat Oct 3 10:53:25 2020 From: heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de (Heike Oberlin) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 12:53:25 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Malaya=CC=84l=CC=A3am@Tu=CC=88bingen:_Course_for_Beginners_online_|_06.11.2020_=E2=80=93_26.02.2021?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues / students / (prospective) Malayalam enthusiasts, in T?bingen the annual Malayalam intensive course for beginners will be offered this time online via Zoom due to the current situation caused by the corona pandemic. We will meet twice a week during the T?bingen winter term, i.e. we start on November 6th 2020 and end on February 26th 2021. As the number of participants is limited, please apply until 23.10.2020. Details given below. Best regards from T?bingen, Heike Oberlin aebmfw Malaya?l?am at Tu?bingen Course for Beginners | 06.11.2020 ? 26.02.2021 Prof. Dr. Heike Oberlin Place: Online course on Zoom (the access code will be communicated after registration). Time: Block date on Friday, 6.11.2020, 9:30 ? 12 am and 2 ? 4:30 pm CET; regular classes on Tuesdays & Fridays, 11 ? 12 am CET, starting Friday, 13.11.2020. Fees: The participation is free of charge. Registration: heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de ATTENTION: The number of participants is limited to 12 persons. Tu?bingen students are given preferential admission. All other interested persons are requested to enclose a short letter of motivation (max. half page). Application deadline: 23.10.2020. Credit points / ECTS: For students of the University of Tu?bingen: 4 Semesterwochenstunden, 6 ECTS. For students from other universities: The approval must be negotiated with the respective university. A continuation course is supposed to be offered as part of the Gundert Chair program in summer 2021. ------------------- Prof. Dr. Heike Oberlin Managing Director & Associate Professor Eberhard Karls University of Tuebingen Institute of Asian and Oriental Studies (AOI) Dept. of Indology and Comparative Religion Keplerstr. 2 (room 139) ? 72074 Tuebingen ? Germany Phone +49 7071 29-74005 ? Mobile +49 176 20030066 heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de https://uni-tuebingen.de/en/faculties/faculty-of-humanities/departments/aoi/indology-and-comparative-religion/mitarbeiter/heike-oberlin-moser/ *** Latest publication: Heike Oberlin & David Shulman (eds.). 2019. Two Masterpieces of K??iy???am: Mantr??kam and A?gul?y??kam. New Delhi: Oxford University Press. *** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Malayalam_1_202021.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 127228 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhammadinnaa at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:06:17 2020 From: dhammadinnaa at gmail.com (bhikkhuni dhammadinna) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 15:06:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request (Schayer 1937) Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I have been unable to obtain a copy of this old article by Stanislaw Schayer: ?New contributions to the problem of pre-H?nay?nistic Buddhism", Polski biuletyn orientalistyczny (Polish Bulletin of Oriental Studies) 1 (1937): 8-17. Does anyone have access to the journal and would be so kind to send a PDF version? With many thanks and kind regards, Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de Sat Oct 3 13:24:58 2020 From: straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de (Martin Straube) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 15:24:58 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request (Schayer 1937) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20201003152458.Horde.-d0J-RnxLUtzWlxxbHApP43@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Dhammadinna, you should have access to the journal from here: https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra With best wishes Martin Zitat von bhikkhuni dhammadinna via INDOLOGY : > Dear Colleagues, > I have been unable to obtain a copy of this old article by Stanislaw > Schayer: > ?New contributions to the problem of pre-H?nay?nistic Buddhism", Polski > biuletyn orientalistyczny (Polish Bulletin of Oriental Studies) 1 (1937): > 8-17. > Does anyone have access to the journal and would be so kind to send a PDF > version? > With many thanks and kind regards, > Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn? -- Martin Straube Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography Pali Text Society Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstrasse 12 35032 Marburg Germany From dhammadinnaa at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:33:09 2020 From: dhammadinnaa at gmail.com (bhikkhuni dhammadinna) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 15:33:09 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request (Schayer 1937) Message-ID: Dear Martin, excellent, and so quick, many many thanks indeed! Here is the direct link to the article, in case of interest to others: https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/101462/edition/113063/content With best wishes, Dhammadinn?[INDOLOGY] PDF request (Schayer 1937)*Martin Straube* straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de *Sat Oct 3 09:24:58 EDT 2020* - Previous message (by thread): [INDOLOGY] PDF request (Schayer 1937) - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ------------------------------ Dear Dhammadinna, you should have access to the journal from here: https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra With best wishes Martin Zitat von bhikkhuni dhammadinna via INDOLOGY >: >* Dear Colleagues, *>* I have been unable to obtain a copy of this old article by Stanislaw *>* Schayer: *>* ?New contributions to the problem of pre-H?nay?nistic Buddhism", Polski *>* biuletyn orientalistyczny (Polish Bulletin of Oriental Studies) 1 (1937): *>* 8-17. *>* Does anyone have access to the journal and would be so kind to send a PDF *>* version? *>* With many thanks and kind regards, *>* Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn? * -- Martin Straube Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography Pali Text Society Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstrasse 12 35032 Marburg Germany -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl Sat Oct 3 15:23:07 2020 From: v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl (Bijlert, V.A. van) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 15:23:07 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new book Message-ID: <6b40071926f042c88f10721ce6f925d2@vu.nl> Dear readers of this list, My publication has just appeared in the press as can be seen from the link below. https://www.routledge.com/Vedantic-Hinduism-in-Colonial-Bengal-Reformed-Hinduism-and-Western/Bijlert/p/book/9780367485740 Victor A. van Bijlert Lecturer Indian Religions and Sanskrit Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 16:10:22 2020 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 20 18:10:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new book In-Reply-To: <6b40071926f042c88f10721ce6f925d2@vu.nl> Message-ID: Dear Victor, Congratulations, I am sure this is a new landmark study on the subject. Jan Houben On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 at 17:23, Bijlert, V.A. van via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear readers of this list, > > > > My publication has just appeared in the press as can be seen from the link > below. > > > https://www.routledge.com/Vedantic-Hinduism-in-Colonial-Bengal-Reformed-Hinduism-and-Western/Bijlert/p/book/9780367485740 > > > > Victor A. van Bijlert > > Lecturer Indian Religions and Sanskrit > > Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 00:24:28 2020 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 20 20:24:28 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hmana_PDF_needed?= Message-ID: Dear list members, 1) Does anyone have a pdf of The ?atapatha Br?hmana in the K??v?ya Recension by Caland . I was only able to find Vol. II part 2 on archive.org. If someone has the other parts and could send them to me I'd greatly appreciate it. 2) Also what is the most reliable printed edition of the mAdhyandina recension?. If someone has this and could send it or point to an online version of it would be great I know there is an etext in GRETIL but as far as I can see there is no information about what printed edition the GRETIL text is from. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at mail.smu.edu Mon Oct 5 01:27:12 2020 From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 01:27:12 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hmana_PDF_needed?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <946F210F-45BD-4DD6-BF68-C9D3B0D03421@smu.edu> A. Weber, ?atapatha Br?hma?a in the M?dhyandina...is the critical edition go to (if memory serves, GRETIL is based on this). It may be available on archive.org. There is also The ?atapatha-Br?hma?a, ed. Sanskrit with notes and index by Maitreyi Deshpande (also with trans of Julius Eggeling), New Bharatiya Book Corp. 4. vols., 2008. As for K??va, see also the text and trans of CR Swaminathan, K??va?atapathabr?hma?am, Indira Gandhi National Center for the Arts, New Delhi, 7 vols., 1994-2015. My best, s STEVEN E. LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES ____________________ Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275-0202 Email: slindqui at smu.edu Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Indology Reply-To: Harry Spier Date: Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 7:25 PM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] ?atapatha Br?hmana PDF needed Dear list members, 1) Does anyone have a pdf of The ?atapatha Br?hmana in the K??v?ya Recension by Caland . I was only able to find Vol. II part 2 on archive.org. If someone has the other parts and could send them to me I'd greatly appreciate it. 2) Also what is the most reliable printed edition of the mAdhyandina recension?. If someone has this and could send it or point to an online version of it would be great I know there is an etext in GRETIL but as far as I can see there is no information about what printed edition the GRETIL text is from. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lauren.bausch at drbu.edu Mon Oct 5 01:30:11 2020 From: lauren.bausch at drbu.edu (Lauren Bausch) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 20 18:30:11 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hmana_PDF_needed?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Harry, In addition to what Steven shared, there is a critical edition of the entire K??va text: *K??va ?atapatha: A Critical Edition*. Edited by G.W. Pimplapure. Ujjain: Mahar?i S?nd?pani R???riya Vedavidy? Prati??h?nam, 2002, second edition 2005. Best wishes, Lauren Lauren Bausch Assistant Professor Dharma Realm Buddhist University "Concepts are really monsters that are reborn from their fragments." --Deleuze and Guattari, *What is Philosophy, *p. 140. On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 5:25 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > 1) Does anyone have a pdf of The ?atapatha Br?hmana in the K??v?ya > Recension by Caland . I was only able to find Vol. II part 2 on > archive.org. If someone has the other parts and could send them to me > I'd greatly appreciate it. > > 2) Also what is the most reliable printed edition of the mAdhyandina > recension?. If someone has this and could send it or point to an online > version of it would be great I know there is an etext in GRETIL but as > far as I can see there is no information about what printed edition the > GRETIL text is from. > Thanks, > Harry Spier > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 08:40:12 2020 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 14:10:12 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] P K GODE- The Originand Antiquity of the Caste-name of the Karahataka or Karhada Brahmins Message-ID: Dear List Members I am searching for the pdf of the article Gode, P.K. ?The Origin and Antiquity of the Caste-name of the Karahataka or Karhada Brahmins ?, Studies in Indian Cultural History, Vol. 3, 1969. please help best Rupali Mokashi *http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern1948 at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 11:39:40 2020 From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 07:39:40 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] P K GODE- The Originand Antiquity of the Caste-name of the Karahataka or Karhada Brahmins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please try this link: https://ia802902.us.archive.org/11/items/studiesinindianculturalhistorypart3_951_T/Studies%20in%20Indian%20Cultural%20History%20Part%203.pdf . > On Oct 5, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Dr. Rupali Mokashi via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear List Members > I am searching for the pdf of the article Gode, P.K. ?The Origin and Antiquity of the Caste-name of the Karahataka or Karhada Brahmins ?, Studies in Indian Cultural History, Vol. 3, 1969. > please help > best > Rupali Mokashi > http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 emstern1948 at gmail.com 267-240-8418 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcl96 at rutgers.edu Mon Oct 5 12:53:40 2020 From: dcl96 at rutgers.edu (DC Lammerts) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 12:53:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] BDRC FELLOWSHIP IN SOUTHEAST ASIAN MANUSCRIPTS Message-ID: <47D8FCC1-C27B-455D-83AD-1E15878E5501@rutgers.edu> BDRC FELLOWSHIP IN SOUTHEAST ASIAN MANUSCRIPTS The Buddhist Digital Resource Center invites applications for a fellowship in Southeast Asian manuscripts, to begin 1 January 2021, with the possibility of an earlier start date if desired. With generous support from the Khyentse Foundation, the position seeks to appoint a fellow to assist BDRC with the cataloging of approximately 12,000 Burmese and Pali manuscripts in the Fragile Palm Leaves library. The fellow?s primary responsibilities will entail validating, refining, and expanding upon existing metadata linked to digital images of manuscript bundles in the FPL collection. In addition, the fellow will collaborate with BDRC developers and the community of scholars engaged in codicological research to build an interoperable metadata framework and digital toolkit to be integrated into the Buddhist Digital Archive and employed in BDRC?s ongoing work to preserve, catalogue, and provide access to Buddhist manuscript material across Southeast Asia. The fellowship will provide an annual salary of USD $40,000, with no additional benefits. The initial term of appointment is for one year, with the possibility of renewal for an additional 17 months contingent upon meeting certain performance benchmarks. There is also the possibility of a further extension depending on the availability of funding. The position is fully online/remote, and we invite applications from qualified scholars based in any location worldwide. Applicants must demonstrate advanced competency in the Burmese and Pali languages as well as an understanding of the diversity of the Buddhist literary and manuscript traditions in Burma and across Southeast Asia. Ideally, applicants will also have experience with Southeast Asian codicology and manuscript cataloging. To apply, please submit a C.V. along with a one-page statement of interest to jann at bdrc.io no later than 1 November 2020. Questions about the fellowship may be addressed to Jann Ronis, Executive Director of BDRC (jann at bdrc.io), and D.C. Lammerts (DCL96 at rutgers.edu). -- DC Lammerts Associate Professor Rutgers University Department of Religion 64 College Avenue New Brunswick, NJ 08901 USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 15:17:44 2020 From: szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 18:17:44 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone have a pdf of R. K. Choudhary, "Early Muslim Invasion of Mithila" Journal of Indian History 40 (1962)? I'd be very grateful! Best wishes, Peter Szanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 16:53:49 2020 From: marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com (Marco Franceschini) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 18:53:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <703494C4-3B3B-49D0-9B66-8D8CA51CE49F@gmail.com> Dear Peter, dear list members, I would also be interested to read this article! Best, Marco --- Marco Franceschini ??????????? Senior Assistant Professor University of Bologna Department of History and Cultures marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org --- > Il giorno 05 ott 2020, alle ore 17:17, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY ha scritto: > > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone have a pdf of R. K. Choudhary, "Early Muslim Invasion of Mithila" Journal of Indian History 40 (1962)? I'd be very grateful! > > Best wishes, > Peter Szanto > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 21:39:52 2020 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 17:39:52 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= Message-ID: First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on archive.org. I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between long a and a. [image: image.png] Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 22:57:21 2020 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 20 18:57:21 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. Thanks, Harry Spier On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier wrote: > First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information > about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on > archive.org. > > I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of the > image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't > understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The > second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between > long a and a. > > [image: image.png] > Harry Spier > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Clipboard01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 380177 bytes Desc: not available URL: From walter.slaje at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 07:14:04 2020 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 09:14:04 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Harry Spier, according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing by a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* ???uy?ma". Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce French nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." for t?*?* hait?m ..." Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic environment. Vedicists will know better. Best, WS Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been > informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier > wrote: > >> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >> archive.org. >> >> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of the >> image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >> long a and a. >> >> [image: image.png] >> Harry Spier >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prajnapti at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:06:28 2020 From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 13:06:28 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request In-Reply-To: <703494C4-3B3B-49D0-9B66-8D8CA51CE49F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E34AD98-F655-4047-B968-1A3A71B9E6AD@gmail.com> Slipped away before I could attach it! Here it is: Dan > On Oct 5, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Marco Franceschini via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Peter, dear list members, > > I would also be interested to read this article! > > Best, > > Marco > --- > > Marco Franceschini > ??????????? > Senior Assistant Professor > University of Bologna > Department of History and Cultures > marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it > https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en > http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini > www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org > --- > >> Il giorno 05 ott 2020, alle ore 17:17, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY > ha scritto: >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Does anyone have a pdf of R. K. Choudhary, "Early Muslim Invasion of Mithila" Journal of Indian History 40 (1962)? I'd be very grateful! >> >> Best wishes, >> Peter Szanto >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: choudharyEarlyMuslimInvasionofMithila.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1533288 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:06:51 2020 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 22:36:51 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mss Catalogues of Kameshwar Singh Darbhanga Sanskrit University Message-ID: Dear All, Would someone happen to have scanned copies of the following manuscript catalogues by any chance: -- *Descriptive Catalogue of Raj Manuscripts Preserved in Kameshwar Singh Sanskrit University Darbhanga*, by B.R. Sharma, Darbhanga 1969. -- *Vivara??tmak Hastalekha Grantha S?c? (Kameshwara Singh Sanskrit University)*, Darbhanga 1986. I should be grateful if you can share them with me. Thanks in advance and best wishes. Mrinal Kaul ------ *Mrinal Kaul*, Ph.D. Assistant Professor - Manipal Centre for Humanities (MCH) Coordinator - Centre for Religious Studies (CRS) Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road, Manipal (Udupi) 576 104 Karnataka, INDIA Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567 https://mrinalkaul.academia.edu/ email: mrinal.kaul@ stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 6 17:43:42 2020 From: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 19:43:42 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_NEW_BOOK:_Haribha=E1=B9=AD=E1=B9=ADa=E2=80=99s_J=C4=81takam=C4=81l=C4=81_(Straube)?= Message-ID: <5F7CACCE.5235.3CEA789@dimitrov.staff.uni-marburg.de> NEW BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT Haribha??a?s J?takam?l? Critically edited from the manuscripts with the help of earlier work by Michael Hahn Edited by Martin Straube Pune 2019 Pune Indological Series, vol. II Hardcover, 634 pp. Publisher: Department of Pali, Savitribai Phule Pune University ISBN: 978-81-941184-0-4 Price: INR 1800 SUMMARY: The present book contains the entire Sanskrit text of Haribha??a?s J?takam?l? (ca. AD 400), as far as it has been preserved in a few manuscripts presently accessible to us. Haribha??a?s work belongs to the Buddhist genre of ?Garlands of stories about previous lives of the Buddha? and represents a rare specimen of early Sanskrit poetry written in the Camp? style. Since 1904 when scholars first learned about Haribha??a?s J?takam?l? from Tibetan sources, it was assumed that the Sanskrit work has been irretrievably lost and that it has survived only in its Tibetan translation. Although in the 1970s some parts of the original Sanskrit text were discovered and later made known in various publications by the late Professor Michael Hahn, a complete and handy edition of the entire work did not appear in print. The present book aims to close this gap by offering a critical re-edition of all parts which have been previously published, and by supplying new editions of those parts which have not been published before. The Sanskrit text is fully annotated with text-critical notes and explanatory comments, and is followed by various indices and a glossary of unknown and noteworthy words. "Haribha??a?s J?takam?l?" will appeal to scholars in the fields of Buddhist and Sanskrit studies, as well as to connoisseurs of Sanskrit poetry. To meet the needs of the latter the text has been printed in Devanagari script with the critical annotations confined to the end of the book. The printed book can be ordered at: http://cms.unipune.ac.in/pis https://www.vajrabookshop.com (https://ogy.de/esap) http://www.adityaprakashan.com (https://ogy.de/7o8b) An e-book version (PDF) can be procured from: http://cms.unipune.ac.in/pis With best wishes (and apologies for the delayed announcement), Dragomir Dimitrov ________________________________________ Dr. habil. Dragomir Dimitrov Heisenberg-Stelle (DFG) Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 18:46:19 2020 From: marco.franceschini3 at gmail.com (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 20:46:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request In-Reply-To: <4E34AD98-F655-4047-B968-1A3A71B9E6AD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Dan, thank you very much for the article, it?s very kind of you! Best wishes, Marco --- Marco Franceschini ??????????? Senior Assistant Professor University of Bologna Department of History and Cultures marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org --- > Il giorno 06 ott 2020, alle ore 19:06, Dan Lusthaus ha scritto: > > Slipped away before I could attach it! > > Here it is: > > > > Dan > >> On Oct 5, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Marco Franceschini via INDOLOGY > wrote: >> >> Dear Peter, dear list members, >> >> I would also be interested to read this article! >> >> Best, >> >> Marco >> --- >> >> Marco Franceschini >> ??????????? >> Senior Assistant Professor >> University of Bologna >> Department of History and Cultures >> marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it >> https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en >> http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini >> www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org >> --- >> >>> Il giorno 05 ott 2020, alle ore 17:17, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY > ha scritto: >>> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> Does anyone have a pdf of R. K. Choudhary, "Early Muslim Invasion of Mithila" Journal of Indian History 40 (1962)? I'd be very grateful! >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Peter Szanto >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at uw.edu Tue Oct 6 21:32:51 2020 From: rsalomon at uw.edu (Richard G. Salomon) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 20 14:32:51 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have occasionally wondered whether the rendering in Vedic recitation of anusv?ra with an additional syllable *gu? *is a mnemonic device to discourage a weak pronunciation or elision entirely of the anusv?ra. In fact I even wonder whether the standard modern rendering of anusv?ra with an echo vowel serves the same purpose. Neither of these renditions of anusv?ra seem to be phonetically motivated; the normal development of final sibilants would I think be > spirantization > elision (as in Prakrit, etc.). I would be interested in hearing the experts' opinion on this. Rich Salomon On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:15 AM Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Harry Spier, > > according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika > before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing by > a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* > ???uy?ma". > Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce French > nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" > > However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the > articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." > for t?*?* hait?m ..." > > Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic > environment. > > Vedicists will know better. > > Best, > WS > > > Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been >> informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. >> Thanks, >> Harry Spier >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier >> wrote: >> >>> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >>> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >>> archive.org. >>> >>> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of >>> the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >>> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >>> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >>> long a and a. >>> >>> [image: image.png] >>> Harry Spier >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 04:19:47 2020 From: szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 07:19:47 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request In-Reply-To: <4E34AD98-F655-4047-B968-1A3A71B9E6AD@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Dan, Thank you so much for this, I really appreciate it! Best wishes, Peter On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 8:07 PM Dan Lusthaus wrote: > Slipped away before I could attach it! > > Here it is: > > > Dan > > On Oct 5, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Marco Franceschini via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear Peter, dear list members, > > I would also be interested to read this article! > > Best, > > Marco > --- > > Marco Franceschini > ??????????? > Senior Assistant Professor > University of Bologna > Department of History and Cultures > marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it > https://www.unibo.it/sitoweb/marco.franceschini3/en > http://unibo.academia.edu/MarcoFranceschini > www.associazioneitalianadistudisanscriti.org > --- > > Il giorno 05 ott 2020, alle ore 17:17, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> ha scritto: > > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone have a pdf of R. K. Choudhary, "Early Muslim Invasion of > Mithila" Journal of Indian History 40 (1962)? I'd be very grateful! > > Best wishes, > Peter Szanto > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik at haas.asia Wed Oct 7 06:13:26 2020 From: dominik at haas.asia (Dominik A. Haas) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 08:13:26 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <395ef758-b1b0-a1cc-c1e6-50e84a9494fa@haas.asia> Not being an expert (especially not with scripts) I have often wondered about the same questions, and my tentative answers are similar to that of Richard. Especially in the case of the /anun?sika/, however, I think a certain ?conflict? may have been involved: some reciters (of some traditions) continued to nasalize the end of the vowel or to pronounce a uvular nasal [?] (as in Japanese), while others began to speak that sound as a /?/, which then became /?g/ or /?k/. In order to avoid a cluster like /?ata*?g ?*??uy?ma, /they then added a vowel, perhaps it even was a /u/ (which to my knowledge was the successor of final /a/ some Prakrit dialects?). Possibly due to the influence of another tradition, an attempt was made to reconcile this ?/a//?gu/? with the pronunciation of a simple nasalized /a/, and the result was this odd /g(u)? /sound ? the logic being that one didn't dare to simply drop the velar sound, because this is the way one had learned it. ... So much for my early morning speculations, now I'm looking forward to hearing more from others! Best, Dominik __________________ *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA* DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences | PhD Candidate, University of Vienna dominik at haas.asia | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 follow my work on univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences Hollandstra?e 11?13, 1020 Vienna, Austria oeaw.ac.at/ikga The Initiative for Fair Open Access Publishing in South Asian Studies | foasas.org Am 06.10.2020 um 23:32 schrieb Richard G. Salomon via INDOLOGY: > I have occasionally?wondered whether the rendering in Vedic recitation > of anusv?ra with an additional syllable /gu? /is a mnemonic device to > discourage a weak pronunciation or elision entirely of the anusv?ra. > In fact I even wonder whether the standard modern rendering of > anusv?ra with an echo vowel serves the same?purpose. Neither of these > renditions of anusv?ra seem to be phonetically motivated; the normal > development of final sibilants would I think be > spirantization > > elision (as in Prakrit, etc.). > > I would be interested in hearing the experts' opinion on this. > > Rich Salomon > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:15 AM Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY > > wrote: > > Dear Harry Spier, > > according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) > Anun?sika before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", > represented in writing by a special sign (as in your edition): > ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* ???uy?ma". > Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - > pronounce French nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" > > However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces > the articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? > *hait?m ..." for t?*?* hait?m ..." > > Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic > environment. > > Vedicists will know better. > > Best, > WS > > > Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02?Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY > >: > > I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but > I've been informed off-list that it didn't showup?so I'm > attaching it. > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier > > > wrote: > > First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the > information about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed > me to Weber's edition on archive.org . > > I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the > first line? of the image from the text I've pasted below > there are two symbols I don't understand and have > highlighted in red.? I've never seen the first.? The > second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is > where it is between long a and a. > image.png > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the > list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walter.slaje at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 06:41:05 2020 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 08:41:05 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: <395ef758-b1b0-a1cc-c1e6-50e84a9494fa@haas.asia> Message-ID: ?*gum*? is an onomatopoeic expression for "humming", an ?imitation of the humming of bees? (MW, s.v.), so *gu?-k?ra* has a meaning, which is: ?the sound of humming?. Replacing an Anusv?ra with the prompt (as I understand it) "*gu?k?ra*" should therefore mean that at this point the pronunciation of a (particular) nasal humming/buzzing sound is appropriate: "[Make] the buzzing sound". Regards, WS Am Mi., 7. Okt. 2020 um 08:14 Uhr schrieb Dominik A. Haas via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > Not being an expert (especially not with scripts) I have often wondered > about the same questions, and my tentative answers are similar to that of > Richard. Especially in the case of the *anun?sika*, however, I think a > certain ?conflict? may have been involved: some reciters (of some > traditions) continued to nasalize the end of the vowel or to pronounce a > uvular nasal [?] (as in Japanese), while others began to speak that sound > as a *?*, which then became *?g* or *?k*. > > In order to avoid a cluster like *?ata?g ???uy?ma, *they then added a > vowel, perhaps it even was a *u* (which to my knowledge was the successor > of final *a* some Prakrit dialects?). Possibly due to the influence of > another tradition, an attempt was made to reconcile this ?*a**?gu*? with > the pronunciation of a simple nasalized *a*, and the result was this odd *g(u)? > *sound ? the logic being that one didn't dare to simply drop the velar > sound, because this is the way one had learned it. > > ... So much for my early morning speculations, now I'm looking forward to > hearing more from others! > > Best, > > Dominik > > > __________________ > *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA* > DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences | PhD Candidate, University of > Vienna > dominik at haas.asia | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 > > > follow my work on univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas > > > > Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia > Austrian Academy of Sciences > Hollandstra?e 11?13, 1020 Vienna, Austria > oeaw.ac.at/ikga > > > The Initiative for Fair Open Access Publishing in South Asian Studies | > foasas.org > > > Am 06.10.2020 um 23:32 schrieb Richard G. Salomon via INDOLOGY: > > I have occasionally wondered whether the rendering in Vedic recitation of > anusv?ra with an additional syllable *gu? *is a mnemonic device to > discourage a weak pronunciation or elision entirely of the anusv?ra. In > fact I even wonder whether the standard modern rendering of anusv?ra with > an echo vowel serves the same purpose. Neither of these renditions of > anusv?ra seem to be phonetically motivated; the normal development of final > sibilants would I think be > spirantization > elision (as in Prakrit, > etc.). > > I would be interested in hearing the experts' opinion on this. > > Rich Salomon > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:15 AM Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Harry Spier, >> >> according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika >> before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing by >> a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* >> ???uy?ma". >> Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce >> French nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" >> >> However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the >> articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." >> for t?*?* hait?m ..." >> >> Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic >> environment. >> >> Vedicists will know better. >> >> Best, >> WS >> >> >> Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been >>> informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. >>> Thanks, >>> Harry Spier >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier >>> wrote: >>> >>>> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >>>> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >>>> archive.org. >>>> >>>> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of >>>> the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >>>> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >>>> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >>>> long a and a. >>>> >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> Harry Spier >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 07:49:29 2020 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 09:49:29 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See already in much more detail: Harry Falk 1993, *Schrift im alten Indien*, p. 255, who, however, only speaks of the *gum*-kara, whereas current recitation traditions have often gone one step further in strengthening through a kind of samprasarana this syllable which for metrical and other reasons is evidently an artifact of the tradition of teaching the text: the so-called* gum*-kara may, accordingly, sound like "gwam". See in this respect: Chatterji, Suniti Kumar 1960 "The pronunciation of Sanskrit." *Indian Linguistics* 21: 61, p, 70: "In Vedic chanting, it is customary to pronounce the Anusv?ra in a peculiar manner, as a distinct syllable as /gwum/ or /gw?m/. Thus ha?sa /????s/?, or /?a?sa/ becomes /??gw?ms?/." Similarly, the modern so-called bhaa.sika-accent for reciting the Satapathabrahmana is, at closer study, an artifact, probably dating to the "middle ages" and later than Bhartrhari, of the pedagogy of transmitting the text (see very briefly my new preface to *Ideology and Status of Sanskrit*, Delhi 2012). Best to all, Jan Houben On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 at 08:42, Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > ?*gum*? is an onomatopoeic expression for "humming", an ?imitation of the > humming of bees? (MW, s.v.), so *gu?-k?ra* has a meaning, which is: ?the > sound of humming?. > > Replacing an Anusv?ra with the prompt (as I understand it) "*gu?k?ra*" > should therefore mean that at this point the pronunciation of a > (particular) nasal humming/buzzing sound is appropriate: "[Make] the > buzzing sound". > > > Regards, > > WS > > > Am Mi., 7. Okt. 2020 um 08:14 Uhr schrieb Dominik A. Haas via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> Not being an expert (especially not with scripts) I have often wondered >> about the same questions, and my tentative answers are similar to that of >> Richard. Especially in the case of the *anun?sika*, however, I think a >> certain ?conflict? may have been involved: some reciters (of some >> traditions) continued to nasalize the end of the vowel or to pronounce a >> uvular nasal [?] (as in Japanese), while others began to speak that sound >> as a *?*, which then became *?g* or *?k*. >> >> In order to avoid a cluster like *?ata?g ???uy?ma, *they then added a >> vowel, perhaps it even was a *u* (which to my knowledge was the >> successor of final *a* some Prakrit dialects?). Possibly due to the >> influence of another tradition, an attempt was made to reconcile this ? >> *a**?gu*? with the pronunciation of a simple nasalized *a*, and the >> result was this odd *g(u)? *sound ? the logic being that one didn't dare >> to simply drop the velar sound, because this is the way one had learned it. >> >> ... So much for my early morning speculations, now I'm looking forward to >> hearing more from others! >> >> Best, >> >> Dominik >> >> >> __________________ >> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA* >> DOC Fellow, Austrian Academy of Sciences | PhD Candidate, University of >> Vienna >> dominik at haas.asia | ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 >> >> >> follow my work on univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas >> >> >> >> Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia >> Austrian Academy of Sciences >> Hollandstra?e 11?13, 1020 Vienna, Austria >> oeaw.ac.at/ikga >> >> >> The Initiative for Fair Open Access Publishing in South Asian Studies | >> foasas.org >> >> >> Am 06.10.2020 um 23:32 schrieb Richard G. Salomon via INDOLOGY: >> >> I have occasionally wondered whether the rendering in Vedic recitation of >> anusv?ra with an additional syllable *gu? *is a mnemonic device to >> discourage a weak pronunciation or elision entirely of the anusv?ra. In >> fact I even wonder whether the standard modern rendering of anusv?ra with >> an echo vowel serves the same purpose. Neither of these renditions of >> anusv?ra seem to be phonetically motivated; the normal development of final >> sibilants would I think be > spirantization > elision (as in Prakrit, >> etc.). >> >> I would be interested in hearing the experts' opinion on this. >> >> Rich Salomon >> >> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:15 AM Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >>> Dear Harry Spier, >>> >>> according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika >>> before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing >>> by a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* >>> ???uy?ma". >>> Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce >>> French nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" >>> >>> However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the >>> articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." >>> for t?*?* hait?m ..." >>> >>> Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic >>> environment. >>> >>> Vedicists will know better. >>> >>> Best, >>> WS >>> >>> >>> Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < >>> indology at list.indology.info>: >>> >>>> I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been >>>> informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Harry Spier >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >>>>> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >>>>> archive.org. >>>>> >>>>> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of >>>>> the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >>>>> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >>>>> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >>>>> long a and a. >>>>> >>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>> Harry Spier >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Oct 7 12:27:06 2020 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 12:27:06 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_=C4=81ha_"he_said"?= Message-ID: <79e9fbbf55c448ea858b61dea999c217@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Dear List members, I remember having once read a note by Dominic Goodall about ?ha "he said", but can't remember in which article or book. I hope someone will be able to help me with the reference. With kind regards, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Wed Oct 7 12:33:00 2020 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 14:33:00 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_=C4=81ha_"he_said"?= In-Reply-To: <79e9fbbf55c448ea858b61dea999c217@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Message-ID: <20201007143300.Horde.Vkk6PVJodntjY708t7XVaO_@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Herman, The reference is: Dominic Goodall: ?Bh?te ??ha? iti pram?d?t: Firm Evidence for the Direction of Change Where Certain Verses of the Raghuva??a are Variously Transmitted?. In: Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft 151 (2001), pp. 103?124. With best regards, Roland From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Oct 7 12:42:26 2020 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 12:42:26 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Skt_=C4=81ha?= Message-ID: <9a28df773c3d47bbb5882232c21140a7@hum.leidenuniv.nl> Dear Rafal, Roland and Peter, This is indeed the article. Thank you very much. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 20:01:47 2020 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 22:01:47 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia Message-ID: Dear Indologists, I am curious if there are evidence of any journey of European or Arabian alchemist in South Asia during the pre-Modern Era. Sincerely, Paolo -- *Paolo E. Rosati* *PhD in Asian and African Studies* *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo **ER **osati/ * paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 21:47:45 2020 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 23:47:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publication: Science and Scientification in South Asia and Europe, ed. by Axel Michaels and Christoph Wulf. Routledge, 2020 Message-ID: Dear List Members, Although, strictly speaking, only some of the chapters are directly relevant to this List, many might also be interested in the book as a whole: *Science and Scientification in South Asia and Europe* Edited by Axel Michaels and Christoph Wulf, Oxon/New York: Routledge, 2020 ToC: List of contributors viii Foreword xii (see extract below) PART I Scientification and scientism in India p. 1 Introduction to part I p. 3-12 AXEL MICHAELS 1. The art of grammar in context: ?Science?, human interest, and the construction of cultural and political worlds p. 13-41 JAN E. M. HOUBEN 2. Sanskrit and computer science p. 42-56 ANAND MISHRA 3. Mathematics and Vedic mathematics 57-68 AXEL MICHAELS 4. The birth of the (exorcism) clinic: media, modernity, and the jinn 69-77 WILLIAM S. SAX 5. The science question in alternative agricultures: zero budget natural farming and the emergence of agronomical pluralism in India 78-95 DANIEL M?NSTER 6. Counting food?: the pitfalls of caloric conception of nutrition and alternative theories of food 96-113 V. SUJATHA 7. Thinking about agriculture in an industrialising economy: an essay 114-126 SUSAN VISVANATHAN PART II Philosophical and anthropological foundations in the European history of science 127 Introduction to part II: philosophy, anthropology and history of the humanities 129-137 CHRISTOPH WULF 8. The dominance of scientific knowledge and the devaluation of other forms of knowledge 138-154 CHRISTOPH WULF 9. Modernity, colonialism and the ?Science of Language? 154-172 FRANSON MANJALI 10. Scientism of early modern age and the prevailing scholastic discourse on principium individuationis 173-192 BABU THALIATH 11. Prolegomenon to the study of science and religion: a philosophical and historical reflection 193-205 DHRUV RAINA 12. Technoscientification and the oblivion of the social dimension of knowledge 206-215 GABRIELE SORGO 13. Science cannot do it alone: habits, environment, and the enchantment of beauty 216-229 MARIAGRAZIA PORTERA 14. Knowledge and science in the art of living 230-241 J?RG ZIRFAS 15. Transforming knowledge into cognitive basis of policies: a cosmopolitan from below approach 242-254 VANDO BORGHI 16. The limits of science from the standpoint of philosophy 255-269 JACQUES POULAIN Index 270 *** *** *** >From the Foreword by the Editors: "In the globalised world of the present, science has become one of the most important factors determining the structure and dynamics of societal development. Its meaning encompasses all regions of the world and drives the further development of the globalised world. But what do we understand by science in the face of this situation? ... Even where the sciences hold to their claim of producing coherent, justifiable and criticisable knowledge, the general criteria for scientific knowledge often require culturally different concretisations. ... The 19th century has led to the establishment of several new disciplines, such as history, religious studies, classical studies, anthropology, sociology, educational science (pedagogics), psychology etc. These academic developments led not only to a professionalisation of knowledge but also to a special humanities approach to cultural phenomena. Many of these disciplines have adopted methods that are taken from or modelled after the assumingly ?better? verifiable and empirically testable sciences. ... In this competition between humanities, natural sciences and life sciences, the humanities (and social sciences) often strived for adopting scientific methods ... ?Scientifically proven? has become the most reliable label for most forms of knowledge. ... All these forms of knowledge production entail an understanding of scholarship that more or less excludes other legitimate ways of generating knowledge. Humanities have therefore often regarded the positivistic scientification or scientism as a form reductionism. ..." -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 00:34:17 2020 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 20:34:17 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First thank you everyone for this discussion. 1) I've just had a quick look at the first verse of the Rudram, which is taittir?ya-sa?hit? book 4 chapter 5 verse 1 and in addition to before semivowels, sibilants and h, it looks like in taittiriya texts gumkara is sometimes pronounced before the vowel u and sometimes not? See these lines from the verse TS 4.5.1 nama'ste a*stu* danv'ane *b?*hubhy?'m *u*ta *te* nama? | vi'jy*a?* dhana'? ka*pa*rdi*no* vi?a'l*yo* ba?a'v?(gum) *u*ta | *u*bh?by?'m *u*ta *te* namo' *b?*hu*bhy?*? ta*va* dhanva'ne | 2) I've also listened to some recordings I have of taittir?ya priests from Satara, Maharashtra, reciting. When they chant ga??n?m tv? ga?apatim hav?mahe as the introductory line to g a?apati-atharva??r?a-stotram, they pronounce it without the gumkara as: ga??n?m tv? ga?apati? hav?mahe but when they recite the same line as an introductory line to the taittir?ya rudram, they do pronounce the gumkara. They chant: ga??n?m tv? ga?apati*gum* hav?mahe . When these same priests recite the bhagavadg?t? they pronounce anusvara in the non-vedic way without gumkara anywhere. Thanks, Harry Spier On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 3:14 AM Walter Slaje wrote: > Dear Harry Spier, > > according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika > before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing by > a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* > ???uy?ma". > Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce French > nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" > > However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the > articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." > for t?*?* hait?m ..." > > Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic > environment. > > Vedicists will know better. > > Best, > WS > > > Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been >> informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. >> Thanks, >> Harry Spier >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier >> wrote: >> >>> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >>> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >>> archive.org. >>> >>> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of >>> the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >>> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >>> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >>> long a and a. >>> >>> [image: image.png] >>> Harry Spier >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 04:21:49 2020 From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 20 22:21:49 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Paolo, You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana. Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca. I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding alchemists. Very best wishes, Dagmar On Wed., Oct. 7, 2020, 14:03 Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY, < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I am curious if there are evidence of any journey of European or Arabian > alchemist in South Asia during the pre-Modern Era. > > Sincerely, > Paolo > > -- > *Paolo E. Rosati* > > *PhD in Asian and African Studies* > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo > **ER > **osati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walter.slaje at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 06:47:59 2020 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 20 08:47:59 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Symbols_in_=C5=9Aatapatha_Br=C4=81hma=E1=B9=87a_text?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a simple case of vedic sandhi, which everyone could easily look up themselves in any grammar: -*?n* before vowels is replaced by ? *??* (= *?*+Anun?sika) So,* s?rg?n iva* results in *s?rg?**?* *i**va* (= *s?rg?*[+ Anun?sika] *iva* ) A glance into the Padap??ha of your quote shows that ?ba?a'v?(gum)? actually terminates in ?*v?n*, not in ?*m* (as in the cited cases of ? *bhy?m*). The present *n*-sound is replaced by Anun?sika before the initial *u- *of *uta*, hence the ?*gum*? of the reciters. Regards, WS Am Do., 8. Okt. 2020 um 03:50 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > First thank you everyone for this discussion. > > 1) I've just had a quick look at the first verse of the Rudram, which is taittir?ya-sa?hit? > book 4 chapter 5 verse 1 and in addition to before semivowels, sibilants > and h, it looks like in taittiriya texts gumkara is sometimes pronounced > before the vowel u and sometimes not? > See these lines from the verse TS 4.5.1 > > nama'ste a*stu* danv'ane *b?*hubhy?'m *u*ta *te* nama? | > > vi'jy*a?* dhana'? ka*pa*rdi*no* vi?a'l*yo* ba?a'v?(gum) *u*ta | > > *u*bh?by?'m *u*ta *te* namo' *b?*hu*bhy?*? ta*va* dhanva'ne | > > > 2) I've also listened to some recordings I have of taittir?ya priests from > Satara, Maharashtra, reciting. > When they chant ga??n?m tv? ga?apatim hav?mahe as the introductory line > to ga?apati-atharva??r?a-stotram, they pronounce it without the gumkara > as: ga??n?m tv? ga?apati? hav?mahe but when they recite the same line as > an introductory line to the taittir?ya rudram, they do pronounce the > gumkara. They chant: ga??n?m tv? ga?apati*gum* hav?mahe . When these > same priests recite the bhagavadg?t? they pronounce anusvara in the > non-vedic way without gumkara anywhere. > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 3:14 AM Walter Slaje > wrote: > >> Dear Harry Spier, >> >> according to my limited knowledge, V?jasaneyins pronounce(d) Anun?sika >> before semi-vowels, sibilants and h as "*?g*", represented in writing by >> a special sign (as in your edition): ?ata*?* ???uy?ma ? "?ata*?g* >> ???uy?ma". >> Quite similar to how Germans - in the majority of cases - pronounce >> French nasalizations, e.g. "Karto*ng*" for "carto*n*" >> >> However, the pronunciation when reciting Sa?hit? texts replaces the >> articulation of Anusv?ra with a spoken "gu?". So "t? *gu? *hait?m ..." >> for t?*?* hait?m ..." >> >> Your symbol represents an Anusv?ra sign in a particular phonetic >> environment. >> >> Vedicists will know better. >> >> Best, >> WS >> >> >> Am Di., 6. Okt. 2020 um 04:02 Uhr schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> I pasted an image of a page in the text with the symbols but I've been >>> informed off-list that it didn't showup so I'm attaching it. >>> Thanks, >>> Harry Spier >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 5:39 PM Harry Spier >>> wrote: >>> >>>> First thank you to Lauren Bausch, Steven Lindquest for the information >>>> about the editions and Caley Smith who pointed me to Weber's edition on >>>> archive.org. >>>> >>>> I've just looked at the Weber's printed text . In the first line of >>>> the image from the text I've pasted below there are two symbols I don't >>>> understand and have highlighted in red. I've never seen the first. The >>>> second looks like avagraha but I'm not clear why it is where it is between >>>> long a and a. >>>> >>>> [image: image.png] >>>> Harry Spier >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 10:17:50 2020 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 20 12:17:50 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dagmar, Yes, I did. But I would like to understand if any European or Arabic alchemist went to South Asia or had any contact with South Asian alchemists or royal courts in pre-Modern time. Best wishes, Paolo Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 06:22 Dagmar Wujastyk < d.wujastyk at gmail.com> ha scritto: > Dear Paolo, > You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and > also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana. > Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is > also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca. > I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the > Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about > that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry > and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding > alchemists. > Very best wishes, > Dagmar > > -- *Paolo E. Rosati* *PhD in Asian and African Studies* *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo **ER **osati/ * paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Oct 8 10:37:34 2020 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 20 10:37:34 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] alchemy Message-ID: Dear Paolo, I have seen a paper (maybe it has not been published yet) by Ilona Kedzie; email: ilkedzia at gmail.com) about a Tamil siddha who actually visited colleagues in the moslim world. But maybe you are only interested in traffic into the other direction. You might also be interested to read her article "Global Trajectories of a Local Lore: Some Remarks about Medico-Alchemical Literature of the two Tamil Siddha Cosmopolities" in Cracow Indological Studies 18 (2016), pp. 93-118. If you don't know the article already. Best, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spezialef at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 11:21:28 2020 From: spezialef at yahoo.com (Fabrizio Speziale) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 20 11:21:28 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625331137.501205.1602156088403@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Paolo, there is the case of Mir Mahmud (d. 1689), a Sufi?master of the Ni'matullahi order who migrated from Iraq to the Hyderabad in the Deccan and to which alchemical knowledge is attributed in hagiographical sources. On Mir Mahmud you can check my articles which however do not focus?on alchemy: ?? propos du renouveau ni?matull?h?. Le centre de Hyderabad au cours de la premi?re modernit??, Studia Iranica, 42, 2013, p. 91-118. ? The mujaddid and the majdh?b. Sh?h ?Al? Ri?? (d. 1215/1801) and the Different Narratives of the Ni?mat All?h? Renewal ?, in Denis Hermann ? Mathieu Terrier, eds., Shi?i Sufism in Modern Times, London, I. B. Tauris ? Institute of Ismaili Studies, 2020, pp. 157-174. I also mention several Sufis expert in alchemy who however were Indian Muslims, in my work?Soufisme, religion et m?decine en Islam indien. Paris, Karthala, 2010. All the best, Fabrizio? FabrizioSpezialeDirecteurd??tudes - Professor?coledes Hautes ?tudes en Sciences SocialesCenterfor South Asian Studies54Boulevard Raspail75006,Paris?? http://www.perso-indica.net/https://ehess.academia.edu/FabrizioSpeziale Il gioved? 8 ottobre 2020, 12:19:11 CEST, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY ha scritto: Dear Dagmar, Yes, I did. But I would like to understand if any European or Arabic alchemist went to South Asia or had any contact with South Asian alchemists or royal courts in pre-Modern time. Best wishes, Paolo Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 06:22 Dagmar Wujastyk ha scritto: Dear?Paolo,You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana.?Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca.?I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding alchemists.?Very best wishes,Dagmar ?-- Paolo E. RosatiPhD in Asian and African Studies https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloERosati/paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472Skype: paoloe.rosati_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhammadinnaa at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 03:41:42 2020 From: dhammadinnaa at gmail.com (bhikkhuni dhammadinna) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 20 05:41:42 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Research_on_the_Sa=E1=B9=83yukta-=C4=81gama_(international_orders)?= Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, in response to a few queries I've received off-list, I thought it might be useful to convey the information that it is possible to order the recently published volume *Research on the Sa?yukta-?gama* (as well all as all our publications that have come out with Dharma Drum Corporation) also for shipping outside Taiwan. Please see the section ??????????on the publisher?s FAQ page at https://www.ddc.com.tw/faq/#faq-17 For those who cannot read Chinese, it is possible to contact the publisher directly and place an order in English through the following email address: market at ddc.com.tw With kind regards, Bhikkhun? Dhammadinn? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:04:18 2020 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 20 14:04:18 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: <625331137.501205.1602156088403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Fabrizio, thank you very much for pointing me out Mir Mahmud. I am far more interested in biographies than in alchemy. It should be relevant for my purposes also to know if we have any document (hopefully in Latin) regarding Indian alchemists in European royal courts or in the Middle-East and North Africa. Sincerely, Paolo Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 13:21 Fabrizio Speziale < spezialef at yahoo.com> ha scritto: > Dear Paolo, > > there is the case of Mir Mahmud (d. 1689), a Sufi master of the > Ni'matullahi order who migrated from Iraq to the Hyderabad in the Deccan > and to which alchemical knowledge is attributed in hagiographical sources. > On Mir Mahmud you can check my articles which however do not focus on > alchemy: > > ?? propos du renouveau ni?matull?h?. Le centre de Hyderabad au cours de la > premi?re modernit??, *Studia Iranica*, 42, 2013, p. 91-118. > > ? The *mujaddid* and the *majdh?b*. Sh?h ?Al? Ri?? (d. 1215/1801) and the > Different Narratives of the Ni?mat All?h? Renewal ?, in Denis Hermann ? > Mathieu Terrier, eds., *Shi?i Sufism in Modern Times*, London, I. B. > Tauris ? Institute of Ismaili Studies, 2020, pp. 157-174. > > I also mention several Sufis expert in alchemy who however were Indian > Muslims, in my work *Soufisme, religion et m?decine en Islam indien*. > Paris, Karthala, 2010. > > All the best, > > Fabrizio > > > > Fabrizio Speziale > Directeur d??tudes - Professor > ?cole des Hautes ?tudes en Sciences Sociales > Center for South Asian Studies > 54 Boulevard Raspail > 75006, Paris > > http://www.perso-indica.net/ > https://ehess.academia.edu/FabrizioSpeziale > > > > > Il gioved? 8 ottobre 2020, 12:19:11 CEST, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via > INDOLOGY ha scritto: > > > Dear Dagmar, > > Yes, I did. But I would like to understand if any European or Arabic > alchemist went to South Asia or had any contact with South Asian alchemists > or royal courts in pre-Modern time. > > Best wishes, > Paolo > > Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 06:22 Dagmar Wujastyk < > d.wujastyk at gmail.com> ha scritto: > > Dear Paolo, > You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and > also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana. > Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is > also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca. > I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the > Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about > that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry > and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding > alchemists. > Very best wishes, > Dagmar > > > -- > *Paolo E. Rosati* > PhD in Asian and African Studies > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo > **ER > **osati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Paolo E. Rosati* *PhD in Asian and African Studies* *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo **ER **osati/ * paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spezialef at yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 16:44:41 2020 From: spezialef at yahoo.com (Fabrizio Speziale) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 20 16:44:41 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <596653187.249126.1602261881689@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Paolo, yes, there is the case of a yogi alchemist active at the court of the Ilkhanid ruler Argun in Iran, that I mention in this article: "Ras?yana and Rasa??stra in the Persian Medical Culture of South Asia", History of Science in South Asia, 7, 2019, pp. 1-41?Best regards, Fabrizio FabrizioSpezialeDirecteurd??tudes - Professor?coledes Hautes ?tudes en Sciences SocialesCenterfor South Asian Studies54Boulevard Raspail75006,Paris?? http://www.perso-indica.net/https://ehess.academia.edu/FabrizioSpeziale Il venerd? 9 ottobre 2020, 14:04:56 CEST, Paolo Eugenio Rosati ha scritto: Dear Fabrizio, thank you very much for pointing me out Mir Mahmud. I am far more interested in biographies than in alchemy. It should be relevant for my purposes also to know if we have any document (hopefully in Latin) regarding Indian alchemists in European royal courts or in the Middle-East and North Africa. Sincerely,Paolo Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 13:21 Fabrizio Speziale ha scritto: Dear Paolo, there is the case of Mir Mahmud (d. 1689), a Sufi?master of the Ni'matullahi order who migrated from Iraq to the Hyderabad in the Deccan and to which alchemical knowledge is attributed in hagiographical sources. On Mir Mahmud you can check my articles which however do not focus?on alchemy: ?? propos du renouveau ni?matull?h?. Le centre de Hyderabad au cours de la premi?re modernit??, Studia Iranica, 42, 2013, p. 91-118. ? The mujaddid and the majdh?b. Sh?h ?Al? Ri?? (d. 1215/1801) and the Different Narratives of the Ni?mat All?h? Renewal ?, in Denis Hermann ? Mathieu Terrier, eds., Shi?i Sufism in Modern Times, London, I. B. Tauris ? Institute of Ismaili Studies, 2020, pp. 157-174. I also mention several Sufis expert in alchemy who however were Indian Muslims, in my work?Soufisme, religion et m?decine en Islam indien. Paris, Karthala, 2010. All the best, Fabrizio? FabrizioSpezialeDirecteurd??tudes - Professor?coledes Hautes ?tudes en Sciences SocialesCenterfor South Asian Studies54Boulevard Raspail75006,Paris?? http://www.perso-indica.net/https://ehess.academia.edu/FabrizioSpeziale Il gioved? 8 ottobre 2020, 12:19:11 CEST, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY ha scritto: Dear Dagmar, Yes, I did. But I would like to understand if any European or Arabic alchemist went to South Asia or had any contact with South Asian alchemists or royal courts in pre-Modern time. Best wishes, Paolo Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 06:22 Dagmar Wujastyk ha scritto: Dear?Paolo,You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana.?Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca.?I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding alchemists.?Very best wishes,Dagmar ?-- Paolo E. RosatiPhD in Asian and African Studies https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloERosati/paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472Skype: paoloe.rosati_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Paolo E. RosatiPhD in Asian and African Studies https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloERosati/paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdmilligan at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 00:10:14 2020 From: mattdmilligan at gmail.com (Matthew Milligan) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 20 19:10:14 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] AOS is now on Twitter! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2513c499-e3ed-4e74-8c01-74f7490ee87d@Spark> Dear Indology members, Apologies for crossposting, but I am happy to announce that the American Oriental Society is now on Twitter! Please follow @AmOrientalSoc (https://twitter.com/amorientalsoc) and feel free to publicize elsewhere as you see fit. Also, it?s a good time to remind everyone that the 2021 AOS Annual Meeting will be on Zoom March 12-18th. Please submit your abstracts by October 15th:?https://www.americanorientalsociety.org/annual-meeting/call-for-papers/ See y?all on the Twittersphere. Cheers, Matt Matthew D. Milligan, PhD Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Religion Trinity University American Oriental Society Twitter Manager: @AmOrientalSoc Person Twitter: @MattDMilligan ?Be a thinker, not a stinker.? - Apollo Creed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sun Oct 11 20:50:35 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 20 20:50:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Paper Message-ID: <978767C8-B563-474C-99F8-94E573565FAD@austin.utexas.edu> Would any one have a copy of Allchin and Norman?s paper: "Guide to A?okan Inscriptions? (1985 South Asian Atudies). Thanks. Patrick From walter.slaje at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 12:13:27 2020 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 20 14:13:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, although for linguistic reasons probably only of interest to a small percentage of list subscribers, I would like to draw your attention to the following set of new publications in the German language. It contains: 1) B?hler?s Sanskrit Primer in a new typesetting (with continuous references to the respective paragraphs in Kielhorn), 2) Kielhorn as a reprint, and 3) Study materials consisting of a) a Key to the Exercises, b) B?hler?s ?Third Book of Sanskrit? with c) a Glossary by Eugen Hultzsch https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html Each volume can also be purchased separately at a price of EUR 35,--, but as a triplet at an unbeatable discount price of only EUR 59,--. https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica/product/200925_08-219-6.html Kindly regarding, WS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From khecari at yandex.ru Mon Oct 12 15:15:21 2020 From: khecari at yandex.ru (Evgeniya Desnitskaya) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 20 18:15:21 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mangalavada Message-ID: <1222541602513229@mail.yandex.ru> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 01:21:41 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 20 19:21:41 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] alchemy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On this Tamil Siddha, Iramtevar (Ramadeva = Jacob), see Natarajan, Kanchana (2004) ?Divine Semen? and the Alchemical Conversion of Iramatevar. The Medieval History Journal 7. pp. 255?78. DOI: 10.1177/097194580400700206 -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 04:38, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Paolo, > > I have seen a paper (maybe it has not been published yet) by Ilona Kedzie; > email: ilkedzia at gmail.com) about a Tamil siddha who actually visited > colleagues in the moslim world. But maybe you are only interested in > > traffic into the other direction. > > You might also be interested to read her article "Global Trajectories of a > Local Lore: Some Remarks about Medico-Alchemical Literature of the two > Tamil Siddha Cosmopolities" in Cracow Indological Studies 18 (2016), pp. > 93-118. If you don't know the article already. > > Best, Herman > > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 01:27:18 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 20 19:27:18 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Original research is required, but I think it not unlikely that the Pramukhas of Balkh (= Barmakids of Baghdad) may have brought Indian some alchemical or longevity ideas to Baghdad in the late eighth century. There is existing research showing that they brought Ayurvedic ideas. - Shefer-Mossensohn, M. and Hershkovitz, K. A. 2013. Early Muslim Medicine and the Indian Context: A Reinterpretation. Medieval Encounters 19(3), pp. 274?99. Available at: https://academia.edu/4049722. - Wujastyk, D. 2016. From Balkh to Baghdad. Indian Science and the Birth of the Islamic Golden Age in the Eighth Century. Indian Journal of the History of Science 51(4), pp. 679?90. Available at: https://www.academia.edu/30576715. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 06:05, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Fabrizio, > > thank you very much for pointing me out Mir Mahmud. I am far more > interested in biographies than in alchemy. It should be relevant for my > purposes also to know if we have any document (hopefully in Latin) > regarding Indian alchemists in European royal courts or in the Middle-East > and North Africa. > > Sincerely, > Paolo > > Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 13:21 Fabrizio Speziale < > spezialef at yahoo.com> ha scritto: > >> Dear Paolo, >> >> there is the case of Mir Mahmud (d. 1689), a Sufi master of the >> Ni'matullahi order who migrated from Iraq to the Hyderabad in the Deccan >> and to which alchemical knowledge is attributed in hagiographical sources. >> On Mir Mahmud you can check my articles which however do not focus on >> alchemy: >> >> ?? propos du renouveau ni?matull?h?. Le centre de Hyderabad au cours de >> la premi?re modernit??, *Studia Iranica*, 42, 2013, p. 91-118. >> >> ? The *mujaddid* and the *majdh?b*. Sh?h ?Al? Ri?? (d. 1215/1801) and >> the Different Narratives of the Ni?mat All?h? Renewal ?, in Denis Hermann ? >> Mathieu Terrier, eds., *Shi?i Sufism in Modern Times*, London, I. B. >> Tauris ? Institute of Ismaili Studies, 2020, pp. 157-174. >> >> I also mention several Sufis expert in alchemy who however were Indian >> Muslims, in my work *Soufisme, religion et m?decine en Islam indien*. >> Paris, Karthala, 2010. >> >> All the best, >> >> Fabrizio >> >> >> >> Fabrizio Speziale >> Directeur d??tudes - Professor >> ?cole des Hautes ?tudes en Sciences Sociales >> Center for South Asian Studies >> 54 Boulevard Raspail >> 75006, Paris >> >> http://www.perso-indica.net/ >> https://ehess.academia.edu/FabrizioSpeziale >> >> >> >> >> Il gioved? 8 ottobre 2020, 12:19:11 CEST, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via >> INDOLOGY ha scritto: >> >> >> Dear Dagmar, >> >> Yes, I did. But I would like to understand if any European or Arabic >> alchemist went to South Asia or had any contact with South Asian alchemists >> or royal courts in pre-Modern time. >> >> Best wishes, >> Paolo >> >> Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020 alle ore 06:22 Dagmar Wujastyk < >> d.wujastyk at gmail.com> ha scritto: >> >> Dear Paolo, >> You may have heard of Marco Polo's description of alchemists in India and >> also of Al Biruni describing ras?yana. >> Both accounts are featured in David White's The Alchemical Body. There is >> also the story of Siddha Iramatevar/ Yakoppu visiting Mecca. >> I don't know of any journeys by European or Arabic alchemists to the >> Indian subcontinent. However, Fabrizio Speziale may know something about >> that: He has been working on Persian sources on alchemy and iatrochemistry >> and these may feature accounts of visiting or at least corresponding >> alchemists. >> Very best wishes, >> Dagmar >> >> >> -- >> *Paolo E. Rosati* >> PhD in Asian and African Studies >> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo >> **ER >> **osati/ >> * >> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com >> Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 >> Skype: paoloe.rosati >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > *Paolo E. Rosati* > > *PhD in Asian and African Studies* > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo > **ER > **osati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 01:28:45 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 20 19:28:45 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Paper In-Reply-To: <978767C8-B563-474C-99F8-94E573565FAD@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 at 14:51, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Would any one have a copy of Allchin and Norman?s paper: "Guide to A?okan > Inscriptions? (1985 South Asian Atudies). > > Thanks. > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Tue Oct 13 07:39:54 2020 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 09:39:54 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute Message-ID: <826D2CFD-5A3D-4436-859C-B871C2D97C73@uclouvain.be> Dear List, may I ask if someone can have access to a scan of the JGJRI vol. 34, 1978 and provide me with it? There are three copies listed on https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Michigan ?Limited (search only)?v. 34 1978 University of California ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Virginia Here is my provisory list of the online available issues for this periodical: The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute, 1, 1943 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282794 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQThxSTFBUEFFTVE 2, 1944-1945 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501849 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/501849 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQESDNNTTZlYVNKYUk 3, 1945-46 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501850 5, 1947 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99838 7, 1948-49 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99840 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99839 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99840 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283355 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQ01LRzVQb2I4bFE https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnhlTVFOMHFLcjA https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEamkxU0FESVZrZkE 8, 1950 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99841 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282905 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99841 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283016 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnc5OG9MS1NNYzA https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQELWVoXy1FzlNuclk https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEWEE0U3BHektCQjQ 9, 1951 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283127 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283127 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQER3Utd3BGUUhRZGs 10, 1952-53 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282240 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282240 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQETVpQV25fZ0NDVnc 11-12, 1953-55 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99842 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99842 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENTVldnBhbld1OTA 13, 1956 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282251 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282251 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENlJ0RkVPWXpPWW8 15-1-2, 1957-1958 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282273 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282273 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEOUhzeERXVHN5alk 15-3-4, 1958 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99837 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99837 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdkd5VW9Id1hkYjg 16, 1958-59 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99843 17, 1960 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282295 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282295 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcGEzZ2I0QWZRWHc 18, 1961 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283357 19, 1962 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283358 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283358 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENDBaVGpwYk1UcDg 23, 1967 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283360 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280631 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaDdTX1RicTk3a00 24, 1968 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283359 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283359 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEeUlGdEhXc05XY00 25, 1969 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282284 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282284 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEay1HLVhuLWFGa2c 30, 1974 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283348 http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283348 https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEa05Gc1VDT2w5cEE Other items: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497706 ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Tue Oct 13 09:06:45 2020 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 11:06:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute In-Reply-To: <826D2CFD-5A3D-4436-859C-B871C2D97C73@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: <20201013110645.a16c0243aba2603864f06623@ff.cuni.cz> Great, this is very useful. A few more volumes are also available: 4, 1946 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283350 6, 1948 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283354 27, 1971 https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts3and4ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeeth_7_t 28.1?2, 1972 https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts1and2ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeethpdf_164_l LO On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 09:39:54 +0200 Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY wrote: > Dear List, > > may I ask if someone can have access to a scan of the JGJRI vol. 34, 1978 and provide me with it? > > There are three copies listed on > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Michigan > ?Limited (search only)?v. 34 1978 University of California > ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Virginia > > Here is my provisory list of the online available issues for this periodical: > > The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute, > > 1, 1943 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282794 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQThxSTFBUEFFTVE > > > > 2, 1944-1945 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501849 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/501849 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQESDNNTTZlYVNKYUk > > > > 3, 1945-46 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501850 > > > > 5, 1947 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99838 > > > > 7, 1948-49 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99840 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99839 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99840 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283355 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQ01LRzVQb2I4bFE > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnhlTVFOMHFLcjA > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEamkxU0FESVZrZkE > > > > 8, 1950 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99841 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282905 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99841 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283016 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnc5OG9MS1NNYzA > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQELWVoXy1FzlNuclk > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEWEE0U3BHektCQjQ > > > > 9, 1951 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283127 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283127 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQER3Utd3BGUUhRZGs > > > > 10, 1952-53 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282240 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282240 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQETVpQV25fZ0NDVnc > > > > 11-12, 1953-55 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99842 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99842 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENTVldnBhbld1OTA > > > > 13, 1956 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282251 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282251 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENlJ0RkVPWXpPWW8 > > > > 15-1-2, 1957-1958 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282273 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282273 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEOUhzeERXVHN5alk > > > > 15-3-4, 1958 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99837 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99837 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdkd5VW9Id1hkYjg > > > > 16, 1958-59 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99843 > > > > 17, 1960 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282295 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282295 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcGEzZ2I0QWZRWHc > > > > 18, 1961 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283357 > > > > 19, 1962 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283358 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283358 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENDBaVGpwYk1UcDg > > > > 23, 1967 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283360 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280631 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaDdTX1RicTk3a00 > > > > 24, 1968 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283359 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283359 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEeUlGdEhXc05XY00 > > > > 25, 1969 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282284 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282284 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEay1HLVhuLWFGa2c > > > > 30, 1974 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283348 > > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283348 > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEa05Gc1VDT2w5cEE > > > > Other items: > > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497706 > > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > From hellwig7 at gmx.de Tue Oct 13 09:35:22 2020 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 11:35:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bharadvaja Grhyasutra, Kumbhakonam edition Message-ID: Dear all, does anybody know if the 1966 Kumbhakonam edition of the BharGS (with bhasya) is available as a scan? Any hints are highly appreciated. Best, Oliver --- Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich From hegartyjm at googlemail.com Tue Oct 13 14:34:22 2020 From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 15:34:22 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Emails for four scholars. Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Does anyone have accurate University contact details for Luther Obrock and Fred Smith? Best, James Hegarty Cardiff University From hegartyjm at googlemail.com Tue Oct 13 14:46:10 2020 From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 15:46:10 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contacts Message-ID: Contacts received! Thank you all! Best, James From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 18:36:14 2020 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 20 20:36:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Alchemy and South Asia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dominik, thanks for pointing that out. Best, Paolo Il giorno mar 13 ott 2020 alle ore 03:27 Dominik Wujastyk < wujastyk at gmail.com> ha scritto: > Original research is required, but I think it not unlikely that the > Pramukhas of Balkh (= Barmakids of Baghdad) may have brought Indian some > alchemical or longevity ideas to Baghdad in the late eighth century. There > is existing research showing that they brought Ayurvedic ideas. > > - Shefer-Mossensohn, M. and Hershkovitz, K. A. 2013. Early Muslim > Medicine and the Indian Context: A Reinterpretation. Medieval Encounters > 19(3), pp. 274?99. Available at: https://academia.edu/4049722. > - Wujastyk, D. 2016. From Balkh to Baghdad. Indian Science and the > Birth of the Islamic Golden Age in the Eighth Century. Indian Journal of > the History of Science 51(4), pp. 679?90. Available at: > https://www.academia.edu/30576715. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk > > , > > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > , > > Department of History and Classics > > , > University of Alberta, Canada > . > > > South Asia at the U of A: > > sas.ualberta.ca > -- *Paolo E. Rosati* *PhD in Asian and African Studies* *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/Paolo **ER **osati/ * paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 14 08:51:37 2020 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 10:51:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute In-Reply-To: <20201013110645.a16c0243aba2603864f06623@ff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: <9C5CB52E-01E5-41D5-9623-93554F408EF6@uclouvain.be> Thank you; if the scan of the JGJRI volume 34, 1978, is not available, possibly the one of the needed article therein is with somebody: B. C. Srivastava, ?Nalodaya and its author?, The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute 34/3-4, 1978, pp. 23-30. BW Christophe > Le 13 oct. 2020 ? 11:06, Lubom?r Ondra?ka a ?crit : > > Great, this is very useful. > > A few more volumes are also available: > > 4, 1946 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283350/page/n1/mode/2up > > 6, 1948 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283354 > > > 27, 1971 > https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts3and4ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeeth_7_t > > 28.1?2, 1972 > https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts1and2ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeethpdf_164_l > > LO > > > De: Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > Objet: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute > Date: 13 octobre 2020 ? 09:39:54 UTC+2 > ?: indology > R?pondre ?: Christophe Vielle > > Dear List, > > may I ask if someone can have access to a scan of the JGJRI vol. 34, 1978 and provide me with it? > > There are three copies listed on > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Michigan > ?Limited (search only)?v. 34 1978 University of California > ?Limited (search only)?v.34 1978 University of Virginia > > Here is my provisory list of the online available issues for this periodical: > > The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute, > > 1, 1943 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282794 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQThxSTFBUEFFTVE > > 2, 1944-1945 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501849 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/501849 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQESDNNTTZlYVNKYUk > > 3, 1945-46 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501850 > > 5, 1947 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99838 > > 7, 1948-49 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99840 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99839 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99840 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283355 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQ01LRzVQb2I4bFE > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnhlTVFOMHFLcjA > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEamkxU0FESVZrZkE > > 8, 1950 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99841 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282905 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99841 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283016 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnc5OG9MS1NNYzA > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQELWVoXy1FzlNuclk > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEWEE0U3BHektCQjQ > > 9, 1951 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283127 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283127 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQER3Utd3BGUUhRZGs > > 10, 1952-53 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282240 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282240 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQETVpQV25fZ0NDVnc > > 11-12, 1953-55 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99842 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99842 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENTVldnBhbld1OTA > > 13, 1956 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282251 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282251 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENlJ0RkVPWXpPWW8 > > 15-1-2, 1957-1958 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282273 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282273 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEOUhzeERXVHN5alk > > 15-3-4, 1958 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99837 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99837 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdkd5VW9Id1hkYjg > > 16, 1958-59 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99843 > > 17, 1960 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282295 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282295 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcGEzZ2I0QWZRWHc > > 18, 1961 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283357 > > 19, 1962 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283358 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283358 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENDBaVGpwYk1UcDg > > 23, 1967 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283360 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280631 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaDdTX1RicTk3a00 > > 24, 1968 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283359 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283359 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEeUlGdEhXc05XY00 > > 25, 1969 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282284 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282284 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEay1HLVhuLWFGa2c > > 30, 1974 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283348 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283348 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEa05Gc1VDT2w5cEE > > Other items: > > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497706 > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Wed Oct 14 09:05:14 2020 From: rmahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 22:05:14 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute In-Reply-To: <9C5CB52E-01E5-41D5-9623-93554F408EF6@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Dear Christophe, This issue seems to be held in Germany and Japan: Scholia ? NACSIS-CAT https://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/nii.sch?attribute=@attr%201=12&query=AA00254241&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 Scholia ? ZDB https://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/zdb.sch?attribute=@attr%201=1007&query=300533-1&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 Best, Richard -----Original Message----- From: Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY Reply-To: Christophe Vielle To: Lubom?r Ondra?ka Cc: indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 10:51:37 +0200 Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 Thank you; if the scan of the JGJRI volume 34, 1978, is not available, possibly the one of the needed article therein is with somebody: B. C. Srivastava, ?Nalodaya and its author?, The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute 34/3-4, 1978, pp. 23-30. BW Christophe > Le 13 oct. 2020 ? 11:06, Lubom?r Ondra?ka a > ?crit : > Great, this is very useful. > > A few more volumes are also available: > > 4, 1946 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283350/page/n1/mode/2up > > 6, 1948 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283354 > 27, 1971 > https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts3and4ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeeth_7_t > > 28.1?2, 1972 > https://archive.org/details/journaloftheganganathjhaksvparts1and2ganganathjhakendriyasktvidyapeethpdf_164_l > > LO > > > > De: Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > > Objet: [INDOLOGY] The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research > Institute > > Date: 13 octobre 2020 ? 09:39:54 UTC+2 > > ?: indology > > R?pondre ?: Christophe Vielle > > > Dear List, > may I ask if someone can have access to a scan of the JGJRI vol. 34, > 1978 and provide me with it? > > There are three copies listed on > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > Limited (search only) v.34 1978University of Michigan Limited > (search only) v. 34 1978University of California Limited (search > only) v.34 1978University of Virginia > > Here is my provisory list of the online available issues for this > periodical: > > The Journal of the Ganganatha Jha Research Institute, > 1, 1943 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282794 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQThxSTFBUEFFTVE > > 2, 1944-1945 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501849 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/501849 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQESDNNTTZlYVNKYUk > > 3, 1945-46 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.501850 > > 5, 1947 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99838 > > 7, 1948-49 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99839 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99840 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99839 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99840 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283355 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEQ01LRzVQb2I4bFE > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnhlTVFOMHFLcjA > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEamkxU0FESVZrZkE > > 8, 1950 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99841 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282905 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99841 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283016 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcnc5OG9MS1NNYzA > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQELWVoXy1FzlNuclk > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEWEE0U3BHektCQjQ > > 9, 1951 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283127 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283127 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQER3Utd3BGUUhRZGs > > 10, 1952-53 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282240 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282240 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQETVpQV25fZ0NDVnc > > 11-12, 1953-55 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99842 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99842 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENTVldnBhbld1OTA > > 13, 1956 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282251 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282251 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENlJ0RkVPWXpPWW8 > > 15-1-2, 1957-1958 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282273 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282273 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEOUhzeERXVHN5alk > > 15-3-4, 1958 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99837 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99837 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdkd5VW9Id1hkYjg > > 16, 1958-59 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.99843 > > 17, 1960 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282295 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282295 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEcGEzZ2I0QWZRWHc > > 18, 1961 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283357 > > 19, 1962 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283358 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283358 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQENDBaVGpwYk1UcDg > > 23, 1967 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283360 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280631 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaDdTX1RicTk3a00 > > 24, 1968 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283359 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283359 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEeUlGdEhXc05XY00 > > 25, 1969 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282284 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/282284 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEay1HLVhuLWFGa2c > > 30, 1974 > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.283348 > http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/283348 > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEa05Gc1VDT2w5cEE > > Other items: > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497705 > https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000497706 > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- T +6433121699 M +64210640216 E rmahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org IM https://t.me/rmahoney W https://indica-et-buddhica.org/ Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford NZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 14 09:42:03 2020 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 11:42:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities Message-ID: >From which (n?ti?)??stra could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, according to the S?abdakalpadruma ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de Wed Oct 14 09:57:10 2020 From: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de (Julia Hegewald) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 11:57:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Post: Islamic archaeology, DAI, Cairo In-Reply-To: <1556333116.1499416.1601286617395@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear colleagues and friends, attached, please find a job advertisement for an archaeologist with specialisation in Islamic archaeology at the German Archaeological Institute (DAI) in Cairo. With kind regards, Julia. Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald Professor of Oriental Art History Head of Department University of Bonn Institute of Oriental and Asian Studies (IOA) Department of Asian and Islamic Art History Adenauerallee 10 53113 Bonn Germany Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de www.aik.uni-bonn.de Tel. 0049-228-73 7213 Fax. 0049-228-73 4042 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: StA56_2020.docx.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 266016 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de Wed Oct 14 10:05:48 2020 From: pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 12:05:48 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: > From which (n?ti?)??stra > could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : > > ativ???ir an?v???ir ?m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | > praty?sann???ca r?j?na? ??a??eta ?taya? sm?t???|| > > PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, > according to the S?abdakalpadruma > ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? > praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? ..Par??ara? im ?kdr. Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Br?hler Str. 7 D-53119 Bonn Tel.: 0228/73-62436 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:38:40 2020 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 16:38:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nyay Philosophy-Akshapada Gotama Message-ID: <20201014163840.32334.qmail@f4mail-235-76.rediffmail.com> Respected scholars,Nyay Philosophy,among the 6 schools of Hindu Philosophy, was set rolling by Akshapada Gotoma. I was trying to know , whether he preceded ShankaraCharya,in the wake of the fact that there were constant argumentations between the two schools.Alakendu Das  Sent from RediffmailNG on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 14 16:47:00 2020 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 18:47:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <801900CE-97C8-4724-B003-6A192608621A@uclouvain.be> Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. bw Christophe > Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY a ?crit : > > Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: >> From which (n?ti?)??stra >> could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : >> >> ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | >> praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || >> >> PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, according to the S?abdakalpadruma >> ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? >> praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. > > Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. > > Hope it helps, > Peter Wyzlic > -- > Universit?t Bonn > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Br?hler Str. 7 > D-53119 Bonn > Tel.: 0228/73-62436 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 14 17:58:46 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 10:58:46 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: <801900CE-97C8-4724-B003-6A192608621A@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Having experienced terrifying wildfires in California, I wonder why this list of ???s did not include something like ??????. Were such wildfires not that common in ancient India? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. > Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the > topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : > > http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf > Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza > of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its > occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. > bw > Christophe > > Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit : > > Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: > > From which (n?ti?)??stra > could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : > > ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | > praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || > > PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, > according to the S?abdakalpadruma > ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? > praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. > > > Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, > 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we > find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near > [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, > to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. > > Hope it helps, > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Universit?t Bonn > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Br?hler Str. 7 > D-53119 Bonn > Tel.: 0228/73-62436 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch Wed Oct 14 19:08:50 2020 From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 19:08:50 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86BB9F1A-ADA7-448E-AC3B-10C0C7756456@unil.ch> I raise a similar question about the sparsity of epidemics in early literature, in ?Plagues and Brahmins? (Zysk felicitation volume, Brill 2021; has just come out). Johannes Bronkhorst On 14 Oct 2020, at 19:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Having experienced terrifying wildfires in California, I wonder why this list of ???s did not include something like ??????. Were such wildfires not that common in ancient India? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > wrote: Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. bw Christophe Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: >From which (n?ti?)??stra could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, according to the S?abdakalpadruma ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Br?hler Str. 7 D-53119 Bonn Tel.: 0228/73-62436 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Wed Oct 14 22:41:40 2020 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 22:41:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: <86BB9F1A-ADA7-448E-AC3B-10C0C7756456@unil.ch> Message-ID: <4879F211-E1EA-4C71-9089-B8603AAB87A5@wlu.edu> Dear Madhav, Johannes, et al. Fire is indeed included (alongside flood/water) as a disaster or (from the point of view of property loss) an ?act of God? or ?force majeure.? Thus the Artha??stra 4.3.1?2: [1] daiv?ny a??au mah?bhay?ni: agnir udaka? vy?dhir durbhik?a? m??ik? vy?l?? sarp? rak???si, iti. [2] tebhyo janapada? rak?et. ?1. There are eight great dangers arising from fate: fire, water, disease, famine, rats, vicious animals, snakes, and demons. 2 He [the king? or his Collector (sam?hart?]?] should protect the countryside from these.? (trans. Olivelle 2013: 228; see his note on p. 629).? I seem to recall similar lists in the N?ti literature, though I cannot lay my hand on a particular passage at the moment. But this sort of list has been received in the Javanese tradition. For example, a manuscript entitled A???da?a Vyavah?ra (Perpustakaan Nasional, Jakarta, L. 882) quotes a Sanskrit stanza: de?abha?gabh?y?t tyakta? kr?ta? [read: hr?ta?] taskarap?rthivai[?] | agnidagdha? jalanoda? pa?casadara?a? smr?ta? || ff. 2v2?3 [read: ? pa?cas?dh?ra?a??] What is abandoned from fear of destruction of the country, what is seized by thief or prince, what is burnt by fire, [or] what is carried off by water ? this is known as ?the five common [perils].? This is glossed in Old Javanese prose (ff. 2v3?3r1): ka[li?anya], dr?vya ika? sa?ke? rundahni? de?a, kanimitan pra? kati?gal ika? de?adr?vya, tinitipak?n salviranya, pa?u kuna?, dr?vya pinet i? task?ra mali?, dr?vya pinet de sa? prabh?, katunv i? ap?y, dr?vya keli ri? ve, kah?l?m kuna?, ika ta sahacihna, tan yogya kat?mpuhan? ri? pana?gapi, titipan kal?bu ri? pa?casadhara?a, ?a[ranya]. This means: Property that, on account of disorder in the locality, because of war, is abandoned, property of the locality of all types that is placed in trust, or cattle; property taken by a robber [or] thief, property taken by the king, [property] burnt by fire, property carried off by water or sunken ? for things with these characteristics the receiver should not be liable; it is called ?a deposit sunk in the five common [perils].? This classification gets applied in Old Javanese prose format to entrusted goods at various points in the famous lawbook (14th c.-ish?) edited by Jonker (1885): Ku??ra M?nava 8 : ad?ve titipan, yen pinet denira sa? amava bh?mi, yen colo??n deni? mali?, yen bahak?n deni? vo?, yen katunon, yen keliya ri? ba?u, yen hila?a katahurag deni? gu?i? pra?, tan v?na? iku palakun?n denika? atitip, apan kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane. [In the case of] property that has been put on deposit ? if it is taken by the ruler, if it be stolen by a thief, if it be robbed by someone, if it is burnt up (katunon) [or] if it be carried away by water, if it disappear by being scattered in the heat of war ? if the depositor asks for it back, he or she has no entitlement [to it], for these are known as ?the five common [perils]? KM 211: ri? titipan kati?gal, ak?ra?a deni? de?a rusak binabak deni? vo?, geger deni? ratu apra? pa?a ratu, i?alap i? mali?, katunon , keli ri? ba?u, tan pa??lenana ka? tinitipan yen ma?kana, pan kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane, li?ira sa? pa??ita vruh i? ?gama. Regarding a deposit abandoned because of a village destroyed [and] plundered by men, [lost] in tumult on account of a king at war with a king, taken by a thief, burnt up, carried off by water, what was deposited need not be replaced if it is so, for these are known as ?the five common [perils]? according to scholars knowledgeable in scripture. Likewise KM 95. Cf. K?ty?yana Sm?ti 178, 601 and B?haspati Sm. 11.4 for other Sanskrit parallels. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://ssrn.com/author=930949 https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: Johannes Bronkhorst Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 3:09 PM To: Madhav Deshpande Cc: INDOLOGY Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities I raise a similar question about the sparsity of epidemics in early literature, in ?Plagues and Brahmins? (Zysk felicitation volume, Brill 2021; has just come out). Johannes Bronkhorst On 14 Oct 2020, at 19:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Having experienced terrifying wildfires in California, I wonder why this list of ???s did not include something like ??????. Were such wildfires not that common in ancient India? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > wrote: Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. bw Christophe Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: >From which (n?ti?)??stra could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, according to the S?abdakalpadruma ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Br?hler Str. 7 D-53119 Bonn Tel.: 0228/73-62436 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 14 22:57:38 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 15:57:38 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: <4879F211-E1EA-4C71-9089-B8603AAB87A5@wlu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Tim. It is good to know that fire is indeed included in these other lists, expanding the *bhayas* to eight. Best wishes, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:41 PM Lubin, Tim wrote: > Dear Madhav, Johannes, et al. > > > > Fire is indeed included (alongside flood/water) as a disaster or (from the > point of view of property loss) an ?act of God? or ?force majeure.? Thus > the *Artha??stra* 4.3.1?2: [1] *daiv?ny a??au mah?bhay?ni: agnir udaka? > vy?dhir durbhik?a? m??ik? vy?l?? sarp? rak???si, iti*. [2]* tebhyo > janapada? rak?et*. > > ?1. There are eight great dangers arising from fate: fire, water, disease, > famine, rats, vicious animals, snakes, and demons. 2 He [the king? or his > Collector (*sam?hart?*]?] should protect the countryside from these.? > (trans. Olivelle 2013: 228; see his note on p. 629).? > > I seem to recall similar lists in the N?ti literature, though I cannot lay > my hand on a particular passage at the moment. > > > > But this sort of list has been received in the Javanese tradition. For > example, a manuscript entitled *A???da?a Vyavah?ra* (Perpustakaan > Nasional, Jakarta, L. 882) quotes a Sanskrit stanza: > > > > *de?abha?gabh?y?t tyakta? kr?ta? *[read:* hr?ta?*]* taskarap?rthivai[?] |* > > *agnidagdha? jalanoda? pa?casadara?a? smr?ta? ||* ff. 2v2?3 [read: ? > *pa?cas?dh?ra?a?*?] > > What is abandoned from fear of destruction of the country, what is seized > by thief or prince, what is burnt by fire, [or] what is carried off by > water ? this is known as ?the five common [perils].? > > This is glossed in Old Javanese prose (ff. 2v3?3r1): > > *ka[li?anya], dr?vya ika? sa?ke? rundahni? de?a, kanimitan pra? kati?gal > ika? de?adr?vya, tinitipak?n salviranya, pa?u kuna?, dr?vya pinet i? > task?ra mali?, dr?vya pinet de sa? prabh?, katunv i? ap?y, dr?vya keli ri? > ve, kah?l?m kuna?, ika ta sahacihna, tan yogya kat?mpuhan? ri? pana?gapi, > titipan kal?bu ri? pa?casadhara?a, ?a[ranya].* > > This means: Property that, on account of disorder in the locality, because > of war, is abandoned, property of the locality of all types that is placed > in trust, or cattle; property taken by a robber [or] thief, property taken > by the king, [property] burnt by fire, property carried off by water or > sunken ? for things with these characteristics the receiver should not be > liable; it is called ?a deposit sunk in the five common [perils].? > > > > This classification gets applied in Old Javanese prose format to entrusted > goods at various points in the famous lawbook (14th c.-ish?) edited by > Jonker (1885): > > > > *Ku??ra M?nava* 8 : > > *ad?ve titipan, yen pinet denira sa? amava bh?mi, yen colo??n deni? mali?, > yen bahak?n deni? vo?, yen katunon, yen keliya ri? ba?u, yen hila?a > katahurag deni? gu?i? pra?, tan v?na? iku palakun?n denika? atitip, apan > kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane.* > > [In the case of] property that has been put on deposit ? if it is taken by > the ruler, if it be stolen by a thief, if it be robbed by someone, if it is > burnt up (*katunon*) [or] if it be carried away by water, if it disappear > by being scattered in the heat of war ? if the depositor asks for it back, > he or she has no entitlement [to it], for these are known as ?the five > common [perils]? > > > > *KM* 211: *ri? titipan kati?gal, ak?ra?a deni? de?a rusak binabak deni? > vo?, geger deni? ratu apra? pa?a ratu, i?alap i? mali?, katunon , keli ri? > ba?u, tan pa??lenana ka? tinitipan yen ma?kana, pan kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane, > li?ira sa? pa??ita vruh i? ?gama.* > > Regarding a deposit abandoned because of a village destroyed [and] > plundered by men, [lost] in tumult on account of a king at war with a king, > taken by a thief, burnt up, carried off by water, what was deposited need > not be replaced if it is so, for these are known as ?the five common > [perils]? according to scholars knowledgeable in scripture. > > > > Likewise KM 95. Cf. K?ty?yana Sm?ti 178, 601 and B?haspati Sm. 11.4 for > other Sanskrit parallels. > > > > Best, > > Tim > > > > > > Timothy Lubin > Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > 204 Tucker Hall > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 > National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 > > https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > https://ssrn.com/author=930949 > https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy > > > > > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of > INDOLOGY > *Reply-To: *Johannes Bronkhorst > *Date: *Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 3:09 PM > *To: *Madhav Deshpande > *Cc: *INDOLOGY > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities > > > > I raise a similar question about the sparsity of epidemics in early > literature, in ?Plagues and Brahmins? (Zysk felicitation volume, Brill > 2021; has just come out). > > > > Johannes Bronkhorst > > > > On 14 Oct 2020, at 19:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > > > Having experienced terrifying wildfires in California, I wonder why this > list of ???s did not include something like ??????. Were such wildfires > not that common in ancient India? > > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. > > Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the > topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : > > > http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf > > > Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza > of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its > occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. > > bw > > Christophe > > > > Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit : > > > > Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: > > From which (n?ti?)??stra > > could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : > > > > ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | > > praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || > > > > PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, > according to the S?abdakalpadruma > > ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? > > praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. > > > Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, > 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we > find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near > [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, > to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. > > Hope it helps, > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > > Universit?t Bonn > > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > > Bibliothek > > Br?hler Str. 7 > > D-53119 Bonn > > Tel.: 0228/73-62436 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Wed Oct 14 23:50:43 2020 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 20 23:50:43 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities In-Reply-To: <4879F211-E1EA-4C71-9089-B8603AAB87A5@wlu.edu> Message-ID: <633FE0EE-043C-42BF-919A-A85DAF0CA653@wlu.edu> Dear all, A quick follow-up note with a couple of typos corrected in the passages I cited (for those who care, see below) plus some further references to Sanskrit sources from Ludwig Sternbach, Juridical Studies in Ancient Indian Law, Part I (MLBD, 1965), pp. 55?58: 9 Vis Major A. There existed praesumptio juris ac de jure that the depositary was always responsible for the loss, destruction, or damage of the object deposited i.e., that he did not exercise the diligentia quam suis rebus. Only if the loss, destruction, or damage were caused by vis major this praesumptio had not to be applied. This is clear from K?ty (593) wher[e] we read: nik?iptam yasya yat ki?cit tat prayatnena p?layet, daiva-r?ja-k?t?d anyo vin??as tasya k?rtyate (Also quoted in SC 179, VyPr 282, VyS 87) The non-responsibility on the part of the depositary in case of loss, destruction, or damage of the object deposited caused by vis major was very clearly regulated in Y (2.66). We read there na d?pyo 'pah?ta? ta? tu r?ja-daivika-taskarai? (Also quoted m ViR ad Y 2.68, SC 179, VRK 88, NrP 24, SV 266, VyPr 281, VyU 80, VyM 85, VT 558, VyS 87, AP 254.26) We find here the most typical examples of vis major, i.e. the act of king (r?j?), the act of God destiny, fate (daiva, deva), and the act of thieves ( taskara). Every plundering, by the forces of a king (foreign king), etc.?was an act of king, every cataclysm (caused by water, fire, etc.)?was an act of God, and every loss caused by the act of men (robbers, thieves)? as an act of thieves. Some sources of law, such as N (II.9), Brh (XII.10) and Katy, (593/4 ), enumerate as vis major r?jadaiva only, others, such as Mn (VIII.189) and almost identically N (XII.12) mention stealing by thieves (caura), destruction of things by water (jala) or burning by fire (agni). Certainly this, rather casuistic, enumeration, is Identical with that quoted above. The most casuistic enumeration of vis major is found in K ( 177/ 13?17) were we read "Whenever forts, or country parts are destroyed by enemies, or wild tribes, whenever villagers, merchants, 01 herds of cattle are subjected to the inroads of invaders, whenever the kingdom Itself is destroyed, whenever extensive fires or floods bring about entire destruction of v1llages or partly destroy Immovable properties, movable properties having been rescued before, whenever the spread of fire, or rush of floods is so sudden that even movable properties could not be removed, or whenever a ship laden with commodities is either sunk or plundered (by pirates), deposits lost in any of the above ways shall not be reclaimed.? In reality it was not a casuistic enumeration of cases of vis major, but rather an interpretation of r?jadaiva. [etc.] Best, Tim From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: "Lubin, Tim" Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 6:42 PM To: Johannes Bronkhorst , Madhav Deshpande Cc: INDOLOGY Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities Dear Madhav, Johannes, et al. Fire is indeed included (alongside flood/water) as a disaster or (from the point of view of property loss) an ?act of God? or ?force majeure.? Thus the Artha??stra 4.3.1?2: [1] daiv?ny a??au mah?bhay?ni: agnir udaka? vy?dhir durbhik?a? m??ik? vy?l?? sarp? rak???si, iti. [2] tebhyo janapada? rak?et. ?1. There are eight great dangers arising from fate: fire, water, disease, famine, rats, vicious animals, snakes, and demons. 2 He [the king? or his Collector (sam?hart?]?] should protect the countryside from these.? (trans. Olivelle 2013: 228; see his note on p. 629).? I seem to recall similar lists in the N?ti literature, though I cannot lay my hand on a particular passage at the moment. But this sort of list has been received in the Javanese tradition. For example, a manuscript entitled A???da?a Vyavah?ra (Perpustakaan Nasional, Jakarta, L. 882) quotes a Sanskrit stanza: de?abha?gabh?y?t tyakta? kr?ta? [read: hr?ta?] taskarap?rthivai[?] | agnidagdha? jalanoda? pa?casadara?a? smr?ta? || ff. 2v2?3 [read: ? pa?cas?dh?ra?a??] What is abandoned from fear of destruction of the country, what is seized by thief or prince, what is burnt by fire, [or] what is carried off by water ? this is known as ?the five common [perils].? This is glossed in Old Javanese prose (ff. 2v3?3r1): ka[li?anya], dr?vya ika? sa?ke? rundahni? de?a, kanimitan pra? kati?gal ika? de?adr?vya, tinitipak?n salviranya, pa?u kuna?, dr?vya pinet i? task?ra mali?, dr?vya pinet de sa? prabh?, katunv i? ap?y, dr?vya keli ri? ve, kah?l?m kuna?, ika ta sahacihna, tan yogya kat?mpuhan? ri? pana?gapi, titipan kal?bu ri? pa?casadhara?a, ?a[ranya]. This means: Property that, on account of disorder in the locality, because of war, is abandoned, property of the locality of all types that is placed in trust, or cattle; property taken by a robber [or] thief, property taken by the king, [property] burnt by fire, property carried off by water or sunken ? for things with these characteristics the receiver should not be liable; it is called ?a deposit sunk in the five common [perils].? This classification gets applied in Old Javanese prose format to entrusted goods at various points in the famous lawbook (14th c.-ish?) edited by Jonker (1885): Ku??ra M?nava 8 : d?ve titipan, yen pinet denira sa? amava bh?mi, yen colo??n deni? mali?, yen bahak?n deni? vo?, yen katunon, yen keliya ri? ba?u, yen hila?a katahurag deni? gu?i? pra?, tan v?na? iku palakun?n denika? atitip, apan kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane. [In the case of] property that has been put on deposit ? if it is taken by the ruler, if it be stolen by a thief, if it be robbed by someone, if it is burnt up (katunon) [or] if it be carried away by water, if it disappear by being scattered in the heat of war ? if the depositor asks for it back, he or she has no entitlement [to it], for these are known as ?the five common [perils]? KM 211: ri? titipan kati?gal, ak?ra?a deni? de?a rusak binabak deni? vo?, geger deni? ratu apra? pa?a ratu, i?alap i? mali?, katunon , keli ri? ba?u, tan pa??lenana ka? tinitipan yen ma?kana, pan kapa?cas?dh?ra?a arane, li?ira sa? pa??ita vruh i? ?gama. Regarding a deposit abandoned because of a village destroyed [and] plundered by men, [lost] in tumult on account of a king at war with kings, taken by a thief, burnt up, carried off by water, what was deposited need not be replaced if it is so, for these are known as ?the five common [perils]? according to scholars knowledgeable in scripture. Likewise KM 95. Cf. K?ty?yana Sm?ti 178, 601 and B?haspati Sm. 11.4 for other Sanskrit parallels. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://ssrn.com/author=930949 https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: Johannes Bronkhorst Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 3:09 PM To: Madhav Deshpande Cc: INDOLOGY Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Six calamities I raise a similar question about the sparsity of epidemics in early literature, in ?Plagues and Brahmins? (Zysk felicitation volume, Brill 2021; has just come out). Johannes Bronkhorst On 14 Oct 2020, at 19:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Having experienced terrifying wildfires in California, I wonder why this list of ???s did not include something like ??????. Were such wildfires not that common in ancient India? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 9:47 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > wrote: Thank you much, dear Peter, for the reference. Now I can add the following article by F. Wilhelm in IT, precisely on the topic ("Calamities - a dharma problem?) : http://www.asiainstitutetorino.it/Indologica/volumes/vol23-24/vol23-24_art38_WILHELM.pdf Anyway, the ?loka below (also quoted in a commentary to the final stanza of M?lavik?gnimitra, according to Wilhelm) must be earlier than its occurrence in the K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya digests. bw Christophe Le 14 oct. 2020 ? 12:05, Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Am 14.10.2020 um 11:42 schrieb Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY: >From which (n?ti?)??stra could come the following ?loka about the six '?ti' : ativ???ir an?v???ir m??ik?? ?alabh?? ?uk?? | praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? || PW gives a slightly different version with a reference to Par??ara, according to the S?abdakalpadruma ativ???ir an?v???i? ?alabh? m??ik?? khag?? praty?sann?? ca r?j?na? ?a? eta ?taya? sm?t?? .. Par??ara im ?kdr. Hartmut Scharfe in his "The State in Indian Tradition" (Leiden: Brill, 1989, p. 69) refers to K?tyakalpataru and V?ramitrodaya. In this list we find: deluge, drought, rats, locusts, parrots and kings that are too near [to their subjects] (and thus able to satisfy their greed). He refers, too, to an older list of calamities in the Artha??stra. Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Universit?t Bonn Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Br?hler Str. 7 D-53119 Bonn Tel.: 0228/73-62436 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cf62e49e235594d7bc04108d87028d4a9%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637382667955157952&sdata=BW%2BPYm58A1%2BdFdkNXE%2ByjeZNcceisn5uAfpt9johLzo%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 07:40:55 2020 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 09:40:55 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] you never know what will pop up Message-ID: https://leidenspecialcollectionsblog.nl/articles/the-esperanto-textbooks-that-never-were -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch Thu Oct 15 12:17:08 2020 From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 12:17:08 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= Message-ID: Dear friends, The Vivekavil?sa (8.275) mentions k?tti as one of the characteristics of Buddhist monks: k?tti? kama??alur mau??ya? c?ra? p?rv?h?abhojanam/ sa?gho rakt?mbaratva? ca ?i?riye bauddhabhik?ubhi?// k?tti means "skin, hide" and other such things. Does this make sense in connection with a Buddhist monk? Any help or explanation will be appreciated. Johannes Bronkhorst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu Thu Oct 15 13:40:02 2020 From: Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu (Toke Knudsen) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 13:40:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Announcement: Body and Cosmos Message-ID: <76FE98F6-43A8-40CB-8771-7674F1E30A9F@oneonta.edu> Dear members of Indology, We are delighted to inform you of the publication of Body and Cosmos: Studies in Early Indian Medical and Astral Sciences in Honor of Kenneth G. Zysk, edited by Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, Jacob Schmidt-Madsen, and Sara Speyer (Leiden and Boston: Brill, 2020). We have attached Brill?s flyer for the volume. More information can be found at: https://brill.com/view/title/57614 With all best wishes, Toke, Jacob & Sara ----- Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics State University of New York at Oneonta Affiliated Researcher Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Associate Editor Convergence https://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/convergence Program Coordinator HOM SIGMAA https://homsigmaa.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ZF_flyer.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 237207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:53:44 2020 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 15:53:44 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9370ffd4-f10d-8a0b-570e-8950a24d7f94@gmail.com> k?tti? kama??alur: I guess this is a "cut" drinking vessel (made of a piece of leather). k?tti < 1 k?t "cut" (Whitney roots) There is a picture of a mendicant with his kama??alu from Ajanta (5th century CE) Schlingloff/Zin (2007): Sa?s?racakra p. 103 fig. 56. Best Heiner Am 15.10.2020 um 14:17 schrieb Johannes Bronkhorst via INDOLOGY: > > Dear friends, > > The Vivekavil?sa (8.275) mentions /k?tti/ as one of the > characteristics of Buddhist monks: > > k?tti? kama??alur mau??ya? c?ra? p?rv?h?abhojanam/ > > sa?gho rakt?mbaratva? ca ?i?riye bauddhabhik?ubhi?// > > /k?tti/means "skin, hide" and other such things. Does this make sense > in connection with a Buddhist monk? Any help or explanation will be > appreciated. > > > Johannes Bronkhorst > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 14:36:36 2020 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 10:36:36 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= In-Reply-To: <9370ffd4-f10d-8a0b-570e-8950a24d7f94@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Johannes and Rolf, I am not familiar with the Vivekavil?sa aside from the bare bones facts: its author is Jinadatta S?ri (1280-1332), a Jain work I believe. So the following is offered tentatively. This verse struck me as slightly ironic, passive-aggressively demeaning - several of the terms he uses (for which other, more respectful terms could have been employed) either have ?aivite connotations (being descriptors of ?iva), or they are allusions to animals, blood, etc. I?m not sure that k?tti? kama??alur can be treated as a compound, since k?tti is feminine and kama??alu is masculine. K?tti, according to Monier-Williams, is also ?the hide or skin on which the religious student sits or sleeps, (usually the skin of an antelope)? as well as ?the bark of the birch tree (used for writing upon.? So it could refer to a meditation mat (an Indian zafu / zabutan); tantrics in that period might have used an animal hide for that. Or it could be a reference to the literary productivity of Buddhists. As for kama??alu, a Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandalu) reports ?The kamandalu may be made of various materials, including metal, clay, wood and dry gourd.? It doesn?t mention leather. It also provides some detail on how the water symbolizes asceticism for Hindus, the water it contains considered am?ta. But, adding to the ironic possibilities of the verse, it also states the following: ?Buddhists pour water from the kamandalu onto the palms of people, before rituals, where the water symbolizes elixir of life.[24] It is also called bhumba.[25] Bodhisattvas like Maitreya and Avalokiteshvara are depicted carrying the kamandalu.[26][27] The kamandalu was initially imported from Brahmanical Hinduism to Buddhism, through god Brahma to Maitreya; it later was incorporated in representations of many Mahayana Buddhist deities.[28] Jain Digambara sages use the kamandalu for storing water for "toilet purposes".[29]? The footnotes: 24 Blau, Tatjana; Mirabai Blau (2002). Buddhist Symbols. Sterling Publishing Company, Inc. p. 256. ISBN 9781402700330. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.225 25 Jansen, Eva Rudy; Tony Langham (1990). The Book of Buddhas. Binkey Kok. p. 110. ISBN 9789074597029. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.28 26 Wong, Dorothy C. (2004). Chinese Steles. University of Hawaii Press. p. 226. ISBN 9780824827830. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.93 27 Donaldson, Thomas E. (2001). Iconography of the Buddhist Sculpture of Orissa. Abhinav Publications. p. 792. ISBN 9788170173755. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.195 28 Jacques Duchesne-Guillemin (1974). Acta Iranica. BRILL. ISBN 978-90-04-03902-5. ISBN 90-04-03902-3. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.97 29 Jaini, Padmanabh S. (2000). Collected Papers on Jaina Studies. Motilal Banarsidass. p. 428. ISBN 9788120816916. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.164. Dan > On Oct 15, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY wrote: > > k?tti? kama??alur: > I guess this is a "cut" drinking vessel (made of a piece of leather). > > k?tti < 1 k?t "cut" (Whitney roots) > > There is a picture of a mendicant with his kama??alu from Ajanta (5th century CE) > Schlingloff/Zin (2007): Sa?s?racakra p. 103 fig. 56. > > Best > > Heiner > > Am 15.10.2020 um 14:17 schrieb Johannes Bronkhorst via INDOLOGY: >> Dear friends, >> >> >> The Vivekavil?sa (8.275) mentions k?tti as one of the characteristics of Buddhist monks: >> >> k?tti? kama??alur mau??ya? c?ra? p?rv?h?abhojanam/ >> >> sa?gho rakt?mbaratva? ca ?i?riye bauddhabhik?ubhi?// >> >> k?tti means "skin, hide" and other such things. Does this make sense in connection with a Buddhist monk? Any help or explanation will be appreciated. >> >> >> >> Johannes Bronkhorst >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -- > Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 15:17:37 2020 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 17:17:37 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9425a3de-5491-ab62-f932-3588965c7d1c@gmail.com> k?tti in Jaina-literature: Deo, History of Jaina Monachism p. 407: k?tti = A piece of skin-leather which was worn by the monks if their clothes were stolen by the robbers. Best Rolf H. Koch Am 15.10.2020 um 16:36 schrieb Dan Lusthaus: > Dear Johannes and Rolf, > > I am not familiar with the Vivekavil?sa aside from the bare bones > facts: its author is Jinadatta S?ri (1280-1332), a Jain work I > believe. So the following is offered tentatively. > > This verse struck me as slightly ironic, passive-aggressively > demeaning - several of the terms he uses (for which other, more > respectful terms could have been employed) either have ?aivite > connotations (being descriptors of ?iva), or they are allusions to > animals, blood, etc. I?m not sure that k?tti? kama??alur can be > treated as a compound, since k?tti is feminine and kama??alu is > masculine. > > K?tti, according to Monier-Williams, is also ?the hide or skin on > which the religious student sits or sleeps, (usually the skin of an > antelope)? as well as ?the bark of the birch tree (used for writing > upon.? So it could refer to a meditation mat (an Indian zafu / > zabutan); tantrics in that period might have used an animal hide for > that. Or it could be a reference to the literary productivity of > Buddhists. > > As for kama??alu, a Wikipedia page > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandalu) reports ?The kamandalu may > be made of various materials, including metal, clay, wood and dry > gourd.? It doesn?t mention leather. It also provides some detail on > how the water symbolizes asceticism for Hindus, the water it contains > considered am?ta. But, adding to the ironic possibilities of the > verse, it also states the following: > > ?Buddhists pour water from the kamandalu onto the palms of people, > before rituals, where the water symbolizes elixir of life.[24] It is > also called bhumba.[25] Bodhisattvas like Maitreya and Avalokiteshvara > are depicted carrying the kamandalu.[26][27] The kamandalu was > initially imported from Brahmanical Hinduism to Buddhism, through god > Brahma to Maitreya; it later was incorporated in representations of > many Mahayana Buddhist deities.[28] > Jain Digambara sages use the kamandalu for storing water for "toilet > purposes".[29]? > > The footnotes: > 24 Blau, Tatjana; Mirabai Blau (2002). Buddhist Symbols. Sterling > Publishing Company, Inc. p. 256. ISBN 9781402700330. Retrieved > 2008-08-21. p.225 > > 25 Jansen, Eva Rudy; Tony Langham (1990). The Book of Buddhas. Binkey > Kok. p. 110. ISBN 9789074597029. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.28 > > 26 Wong, Dorothy C. (2004). Chinese Steles. University of Hawaii > Press. p. 226. ISBN 9780824827830. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.93 > > 27 Donaldson, Thomas E. (2001). Iconography of the Buddhist Sculpture > of Orissa. Abhinav Publications. p. 792. ISBN 9788170173755. Retrieved > 2008-08-21. p.195 > > 28 Jacques Duchesne-Guillemin (1974). Acta Iranica. BRILL. ISBN > 978-90-04-03902-5. ISBN 90-04-03902-3. Retrieved 2008-08-21. p.97 > > 29 Jaini, Padmanabh S. (2000). Collected Papers on Jaina Studies. > Motilal Banarsidass. p. 428. ISBN 9788120816916. Retrieved 2008-08-21. > p.164. > > Dan > >> On Oct 15, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY >> > wrote: >> >> k?tti? kama??alur: >> >> I guess this is a "cut" drinking vessel (made of a piece of leather). >> >> k?tti < 1 k?t "cut" (Whitney roots) >> >> There is a picture of a mendicant with his kama??alu from Ajanta (5th >> century CE) >> >> Schlingloff/Zin (2007): Sa?s?racakra p. 103 fig. 56. >> >> Best >> >> Heiner >> >> >> Am 15.10.2020 um 14:17 schrieb Johannes Bronkhorst via INDOLOGY: >>> >>> Dear friends, >>> >>> >>> The Vivekavil?sa (8.275) mentions /k?tti/ as one of the >>> characteristics of Buddhist monks: >>> >>> k?tti? kama??alur mau??ya? c?ra? p?rv?h?abhojanam/ >>> >>> sa?gho rakt?mbaratva? ca ?i?riye bauddhabhik?ubhi?// >>> >>> /k?tti/means "skin, hide" and other such things. Does this make >>> sense in connection with a Buddhist monk? Any help or explanation >>> will be appreciated. >>> >>> >>> Johannes Bronkhorst >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> -- >> Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch >> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > -- Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 15 17:28:59 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 17:28:59 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: The ACLS Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies -- Call for Applications In-Reply-To: <308a35b2c3e34e9b41bea422d.09e84fe6ed.20201015145428.eba533ded2.61308515@mail74.sea172.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: Dear friends, The following information may be of interest to some who work on Buddhism, or to colleagues or students in the area. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ [https://mcusercontent.com/308a35b2c3e34e9b41bea422d/images/72ce6d15-953b-4be1-b048-614e35f49d13.jpg] This email was sent to mkapstei at uchicago.edu why did I get this? unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences American Council of Learned Societies ? 633 3rd Ave # 8 ? New York, NY 10017-6706 ? USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Thu Oct 15 21:16:48 2020 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 20 17:16:48 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] you never know what will pop up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6b9cde62-c15f-be7b-22a4-60ed7c9e4854@sas.upenn.edu> Scrumptious! Thanks for sharing this. Rosane On 10/15/20 3:40 AM, Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY wrote: > https://leidenspecialcollectionsblog.nl/articles/the-esperanto-textbooks-that-never-were > > -- > J. Silk > Leiden University > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b > 2311 BZ Leiden > The Netherlands > > copies of my publications may be found at > https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Fri Oct 16 07:15:08 2020 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 20 07:15:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] mas, masti, masta Message-ID: Dear colleagues, With reference to the Dh?tup??ha, PW (whence MW) records a class-IV root mas, 'to measure, mete', and derived nominal forms masa, masana, masti. MW further records a ppp masta 'measured'. In B?htlingk's edition of the A???dhy?y?, in the appendix giving the Dh?tup??ha, I indeed find "mas? parim??e (pari??me)" as entry 4.112. I am eager to know whether there is any evidence for the actual use of any forms derived from mas 'to measure', and particularly of the forms masti and masta, whether in ko?as or other kinds of sources liable to have been known to any author writing in the 9th century. Thank you. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Fri Oct 16 07:28:50 2020 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 20 07:28:50 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can emendations like ku??, k?rt(t)ir, kr?t?, or a compound k?tti-kama??alur 'skin-gourd' be excluded? Arlo Griffiths ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst via INDOLOGY Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:17 PM To: indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] k?tti Dear friends, The Vivekavil?sa (8.275) mentions k?tti as one of the characteristics of Buddhist monks: k?tti? kama??alur mau??ya? c?ra? p?rv?h?abhojanam/ sa?gho rakt?mbaratva? ca ?i?riye bauddhabhik?ubhi?// k?tti means "skin, hide" and other such things. Does this make sense in connection with a Buddhist monk? Any help or explanation will be appreciated. Johannes Bronkhorst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vbd203 at googlemail.com Fri Oct 16 10:54:15 2020 From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 20 11:54:15 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Edgerton's_Pa=C3=B1catantra?= Message-ID: Dear all, Does anyone happen to have a scan of Edgerton's Panchatantra Reconstructed? I have one already (here ), but the resolution, especially in the apparatus, could be improved. Many Thanks, Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vbd203 at googlemail.com Sat Oct 17 09:02:29 2020 From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 10:02:29 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Edgerton's_Pa=C3=B1catantra?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks for the responses. Better scans can be downloaded here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dxPS8KEloEAYNcYdcWcH89ATAvnQf0YO/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/180gbDBnltlRqHvcEM_c_DWDkfJSwZrsh/view?usp=sharing All the Best, Victor On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:54 AM victor davella wrote: > Dear all, > > Does anyone happen to have a scan of Edgerton's Panchatantra > Reconstructed? I have one already (here > ), > but the resolution, especially in the apparatus, could be improved. > > Many Thanks, > Victor > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch Sat Oct 17 18:33:38 2020 From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 18:33:38 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_k=E1=B9=9Btti?= Message-ID: Many thanks to all those who responded to my request for information about k?tti as an attribute of Buddhist monks. Johannes Bronkhorst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 17 18:40:58 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 18:40:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search Message-ID: Dear friends, Might anyone have a soft copy of G. Oberhammer's "Notes on the Tantrayukti-s"? I have been unable to locate it, though it is referred to quite often. thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 17 19:06:05 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 20 19:06:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Isabelle Rati? for responding at the speed of light! Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:40 PM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search Dear friends, Might anyone have a soft copy of G. Oberhammer's "Notes on the Tantrayukti-s"? I have been unable to locate it, though it is referred to quite often. thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Peter.Flugel at soas.ac.uk Sun Oct 18 10:48:58 2020 From: Peter.Flugel at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 20 11:48:58 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book Publication Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, This publication may be of interest. It is the first volume of collected papers in Jaina Studies: P. Fl?gel. Contributions to Jaina Studies: Jaina Schools and Sects. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 2020. ISBN: 9788194243830 mlbdnab at gmail.com with best wishes Peter Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Professor of the Study of Religions and Philosophies Department of History, Religions and Philosophies School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 20 13:30:10 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 20 13:30:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac Message-ID: Dear friends, I recently bought a new MacBook Pro with the OS Catalina. My old MacBook had an earlier OS, in which it was quite easy to locate characters with diacritical marks not among the standard Mac accents, which would then be stored in a tab called 'favorites' with keyboard preferences. In Catalina, that is gone, and I do not see any easy way to locate and insert the diacritical marks. I would be grateful for some pointers. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:34:13 2020 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 20 15:34:13 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: HI Matthew I use Catalina on a Macbook Pro. For Sanskrit diacritics I find EasyUnicode added as a keyboard sorts out most diacritic challenges (thanks to Tom Yarnell for originally pointing this out). On iOS devices you can create your own diacritic shortcuts in the Keyboard Text Replacement feature. Cheers James On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:30 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear friends, > > I recently bought a new MacBook Pro with the OS Catalina. > My old MacBook had an earlier OS, in which it was quite easy to locate > characters with diacritical marks not among the standard Mac accents, which > would then be stored in a tab called 'favorites' with keyboard preferences. > In Catalina, that is gone, and I do not see any easy way to locate and > insert the diacritical marks. I would be grateful for some pointers. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- James Hartzell, PhD (2x) Donostia-San Sebati?n, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ph2046 at columbia.edu Tue Oct 20 13:42:09 2020 From: ph2046 at columbia.edu (Paul Hacket) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 20 09:42:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <727AFDE3-CFD4-4A7F-8199-87192AE3B9E7@columbia.edu> Hi Matthew, The ?Favorites? tab in keyboard preferences still exists, but it is not displayed until you add characters to it. In the ?Show Character Viewer? option under the keyboard menu (now called ?Show Emoji & Symbols?), select a character. In the right side details window you will see a button ?Add to Favorites.? When you click this, it will add the character to your favorites list and the tab selection will reappear. Best, Paul > On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:30 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear friends, > > I recently bought a new MacBook Pro with the OS Catalina. > My old MacBook had an earlier OS, in which it was quite easy to locate characters with diacritical marks not among the standard Mac accents, which would then be stored in a tab called 'favorites' with keyboard preferences. > In Catalina, that is gone, and I do not see any easy way to locate and insert the diacritical marks. I would be grateful for some pointers. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 20 13:45:30 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 20 13:45:30 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac In-Reply-To: <727AFDE3-CFD4-4A7F-8199-87192AE3B9E7@columbia.edu> Message-ID: Many thanks Paul, Shayne, James, and others who will no doubt soon write as well - your advice is precisely what I was looking for. All's well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Paul Hacket via INDOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 8:42 AM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac Hi Matthew, The ?Favorites? tab in keyboard preferences still exists, but it is not displayed until you add characters to it. In the ?Show Character Viewer? option under the keyboard menu (now called ?Show Emoji & Symbols?), select a character. In the right side details window you will see a button ?Add to Favorites.? When you click this, it will add the character to your favorites list and the tab selection will reappear. Best, Paul On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:30 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear friends, I recently bought a new MacBook Pro with the OS Catalina. My old MacBook had an earlier OS, in which it was quite easy to locate characters with diacritical marks not among the standard Mac accents, which would then be stored in a tab called 'favorites' with keyboard preferences. In Catalina, that is gone, and I do not see any easy way to locate and insert the diacritical marks. I would be grateful for some pointers. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vbd203 at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 11:06:10 2020 From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 20 12:06:10 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Key Message-ID: Dear Tepke (with Leo Nelson-Jones in CC), I apologize, but I forgot to mention to you that I gave my key to Leo when he was in London a week and a half ago. Please let him know how he can return my key to you. Many Thanks, Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vbd203 at googlemail.com Wed Oct 21 11:11:17 2020 From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 20 12:11:17 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Key In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fortunately, this will perhaps be the last time that I have email the Indology department in Hamburg! Cheers, Victor On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 12:06 PM victor davella wrote: > Dear Tepke (with Leo Nelson-Jones in CC), > > I apologize, but I forgot to mention to you that I gave my key to Leo when > he was in London a week and a half ago. Please let him know how he can > return my key to you. > > Many Thanks, > > Victor > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 09:30:03 2020 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 11:30:03 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many among you. My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, date, content, etc. Here are pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. Yours with very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 09:49:01 2020 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 11:49:01 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alas, I cannot identify it, but it is Burmese. Jonathan On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:30 AM Manu Francis via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara > (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e > Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. > It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many > among you. > My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, > date, content, etc. > Here are pictures: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 > > The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. > Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the > description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. > > Yours with very best wishes. > > Emmanuel FRANCIS > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project > Online CV HAL > DHARMA Project > (ERC synergy grant 2018) > TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) > Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 09:59:27 2020 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 11:59:27 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: a learned colleague has gently told me that I am wrong, and that it is rather Singhalese. mea culpa. JAS On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:49 AM Jonathan Silk wrote: > Alas, I cannot identify it, but it is Burmese. > Jonathan > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:30 AM Manu Francis via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara >> (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e >> Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. >> It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many >> among you. >> My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, >> date, content, etc. >> Here are pictures: >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 >> >> The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. >> Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the >> description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. >> >> Yours with very best wishes. >> >> Emmanuel FRANCIS >> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project >> Online CV HAL >> DHARMA Project >> (ERC synergy grant 2018) >> TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) >> Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India >> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > J. Silk > Leiden University > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b > 2311 BZ Leiden > The Netherlands > > copies of my publications may be found at > https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kiepue at t-online.de Fri Oct 23 10:00:19 2020 From: kiepue at t-online.de (=?utf-8?Q?Petra_Kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 12:00:19 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67D8E56C-9150-4CCC-B370-218190896530@t-online.de> No, it is not Burmese, but Sinhalese (script and language). The photographs are on the head. I see only part of a single leaf, so I can?t say anything more. **************************************** Petra Kieffer-Puelz Cranachstr. 9 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/770447 Email: kiepue at t-online.de > Am 23.10.2020 um 11:49 schrieb Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY : > > Alas, I cannot identify it, but it is Burmese. > Jonathan > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:30 AM Manu Francis via INDOLOGY > wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. > It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many among you. > My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, date, content, etc. > Here are pictures: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 > > The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. > Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. > > Yours with very best wishes. > > Emmanuel FRANCIS > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project > Online CV HAL > DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) > TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) > Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > -- > J. Silk > Leiden University > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b > 2311 BZ Leiden > The Netherlands > > copies of my publications may be found at > https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 11:49:07 2020 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 17:19:07 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kiranavali scan requests Message-ID: Respected scholars, I am looking for the scanned copies of the following works. 1. Kiranavali of Udayanacharyya, with the commentary of Vardhamanopadhyaya, edited by Mahamahopadhyaya Shiva Chandra Sarvvabhouma, Asiatic Society I have a scan from archive, which abruptly ends at 300th page. 2. Any other translations / commentaries / subcommentaries except kiranavalibhaskara and kiranavalirahasyam would also be appreciated. -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Surat www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jm63 at soas.ac.uk Fri Oct 23 12:24:04 2020 From: jm63 at soas.ac.uk (James Mallinson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 13:24:04 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any suggestions. Yours, with best wishes, Jim From straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de Fri Oct 23 12:44:44 2020 From: straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de (Martin Straube) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 14:44:44 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20201023144444.Horde.7iXC76Xrvy-1rnurKg6SjMY@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear James, from the SARDS database (www.sards.uni-halle.de): Carter, J. H.: Observations on the Sindh misquitoe, in: The Journal of the Bombay Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1, 1844, S. 430-434, 1 lithograph. Jolly, Julius: Mosquitoes and fever in Su?ruta, in: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1905, S. 558-560. Jolly, Julius: Su?ruta on mosquitoes, in: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1906, S. 222-224. With best wishes Martin Zitat von James Mallinson via INDOLOGY : > Dear colleagues, > > I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other > disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search > of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very > grateful for any suggestions. > > Yours, with best wishes, > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) -- Martin Straube Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography Pali Text Society Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Indologie und Tibetologie Deutschhausstrasse 12 35032 Marburg Germany From manufrancis at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 13:09:14 2020 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 15:09:14 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: <67D8E56C-9150-4CCC-B370-218190896530@t-online.de> Message-ID: A great many thanks to Rolf Heinrich Koch, Jonathan Silk and Petra Kieffer-Pf?lz for their inputs!!! I guess that Catherine Borot Alcantara might, at some point of time, share more pictures. With very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture Le ven. 23 oct. 2020 ? 12:00, Petra Kieffer-P?lz a ?crit : > No, it is not Burmese, but Sinhalese (script and language). The > photographs are on the head. > I see only part of a single leaf, so I can?t say anything more. > > **************************************** > > Petra Kieffer-Puelz > Cranachstr. 9 > 99423 Weimar > Tel. 03643/770447 > Email: kiepue at t-online.de > > > > > Am 23.10.2020 um 11:49 schrieb Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > > Alas, I cannot identify it, but it is Burmese. > Jonathan > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 11:30 AM Manu Francis via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara >> (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e >> Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. >> It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many >> among you. >> My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, >> date, content, etc. >> Here are pictures: >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 >> >> The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. >> Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the >> description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. >> >> Yours with very best wishes. >> >> Emmanuel FRANCIS >> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project >> Online CV HAL >> DHARMA Project >> (ERC synergy grant 2018) >> TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) >> Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India >> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > J. Silk > Leiden University > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b > 2311 BZ Leiden > The Netherlands > > copies of my publications may be found at > https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aparpola at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 13:39:33 2020 From: aparpola at gmail.com (Asko Parpola) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 16:39:33 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: <20201023144444.Horde.7iXC76Xrvy-1rnurKg6SjMY@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Halarnkar, Samar, & Subhadra Menon, 1997. Invasion of the monster mosquitoes*. India Today, 21 July 1997: 42-47. With best wishes, Asko > On 23 Oct 2020, at 15.44, Martin Straube via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Carter, J. H.: Observations on the Sindh misquitoe, in: The Journal of the Bombay Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1, 1844, S. 430-434, 1 lithograph. > > Jolly, Julius: Mosquitoes and fever in Su?ruta, in: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1905, S. 558-560. > > Jolly, Julius: Su?ruta on mosquitoes, in: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1906, S. 222-224. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Fri Oct 23 13:55:29 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 13:55:29 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <543F6DF9-362B-4D9A-BAEB-8B831249D48E@austin.utexas.edu> So, yes, this is Sinhala script, probably also Sinhala language. The Image was inverted; I had to download and flip it. Some letters are illegible, unfortunately. The last lines read something like: (penultimate): ?gr?makotau viharati (*?) v?sayakara?aye atikr?ntaloka*vo?(?)tugata a*np?*pa Not normal Sinhala; quite Sanskrit (e.g. viharati)i, but some like v?sayakara?aye are clearly Sinhala. Best, Patrick On Oct 23, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Manu Francis via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Colleagues, I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many among you. My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, date, content, etc. Here are pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. Yours with very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 23 13:57:42 2020 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 13:57:42 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: <543F6DF9-362B-4D9A-BAEB-8B831249D48E@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: perhaps Pali? Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 8:55 AM To: Manu Francis Cc: Indology ; Catherine BOROT ALCANTARA Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manuscrit retrouv? au Mus?e de Pouilly sur Loire So, yes, this is Sinhala script, probably also Sinhala language. The Image was inverted; I had to download and flip it. Some letters are illegible, unfortunately. The last lines read something like: (penultimate): ?gr?makotau viharati (*?) v?sayakara?aye atikr?ntaloka*vo?(?)tugata a*np?*pa Not normal Sinhala; quite Sanskrit (e.g. viharati)i, but some like v?sayakara?aye are clearly Sinhala. Best, Patrick On Oct 23, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Manu Francis via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Colleagues, I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many among you. My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, date, content, etc. Here are pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. Yours with very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Fri Oct 23 13:59:50 2020 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Karttunen, Klaus J) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 13:59:50 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear James, there is indeed very little. About mosquitoes my files only have, beside Jolly, one small note: SCHWENTNER, E. 1954. ?Drohne und M?cke?, KZ71, 198. This, I suppose, is from Indo-Europeean perspective. IE is at least the next: Wood, Francis Asbury 1920. ?Names of Stinging, Gnawing and Rending Animals?, AJPh41, 223?239 & 336?354. For other disease-carrying insects I could add: Thieme, Paul 1965. ?Die rigvedische Tierbezeichnungen?, KZ79, 211?223 (Kleine Schriften214?227) has at least flies. On bugs and fleas: BURROW, T. 1974. ?Sanskrit matku?a-and utku?a-?, Ksi?ga pami?tkowa ku czi Eugeniusza S?uszkiewicza.Warszawa, 53?56. LIEBICH, B. 1927. ?Floh oder Wanze??, ZII5, 153?163 (in Pa?catantra). Finally, I cannot say, what this is, as I have not seen it: *Moses, S. T. 1926. ?Insect Pests and Some South Indian Beliefs?, QJMS16, 1925/26, 15?19. Best, Klaus ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Mallinson via INDOLOGY Sent: 23 October 2020 15:24 To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes Dear colleagues, I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any suggestions. Yours, with best wishes, Jim _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prajnapti at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 14:54:54 2020 From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 10:54:54 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear James, et al., The idea of disease had not yet included the discovery of germs (there were occasional theories from Greece, Rome, Medieval Islamic medicine about infectious ?seeds? that could be transmitted by contact or through the air, but identifying actual germs awaited the 19th c in the west), so in ancient and medieval India the belief was that disease was more likely to be caused by an imbalance of the three do?as, demons, bad hygiene, or immodest lifestyle, but not by germ transmission. So mosquitos and snakes ? one causing temporary discomfort, and the other more dangerous because of lethal venom ? were not considered disease transmitters per se. There is a stock phrase repeated numerous times in Buddhist texts, initially in the Nik?yas as examples of painful adversities, and in later texts, such as Asa?ga?s Abhidharmasamuccaya, with a slightly expanded list, as examples of r?pic impingement. One such example from the Majjhima-nik?ya: Sabb?sava Sutta [Skt: Sarva-?srava] (MN 2 / MN i 6 ) Katame ca, bhikkhave, ?sav? pa?isevan? pah?tabb?? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu pa?isa?kh? yoniso c?vara? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva hirikop?nappa?icch?danattha??. And what are the defilements that should be given up by using? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, makes use of robes: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; and for covering up the private parts.? (Bhikkhu Sujato tr.) ?What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by using? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, uses the robe only for protection from cold, for protection from heat, for protection from contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things, and only for the purpose of concealing the private parts. (Bhikkhu Bodhi tr.) And what, monks, are the cankers to be got rid of by use? (1) In this teaching, monks, a monk, wisely reflective, uses a robe simply for warding off the cold, for warding off the heat, for warding off the touch of gadfly, mosquito, wind and sun, creeping things, simply for the sake of covering his nakedness. (I.B. Horner tr.) [?] Pa?isa?kh? yoniso sen?sana? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva utuparissayavinodanapa?isall?n?r?mattha??. Reflecting properly, they make use of lodgings: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; to shelter from harsh weather and to enjoy retreat.? (Sujato) == But one is expected to tolerate these sorts of pains and adversities, so they are not thinking of them as occasions for contracting lethal diseases ? the snakes have venom, which of course they acknowledge, but the texts also advocate tolerating snake bites as well. == Asa?ga, Abhidharmasamuccaya: Gokhale ed., p. 2: ki?lak?a?a? r?pam / r?pa?a lak?a?a? r?pam / tad dvividham / spar?ena r?pa?a? prade?ena r?pa?a? ca / spar?ena r?pa?a? katamat / karacara?ap????a?asrada??a??to??ak?utpip?s?ma?akada??asarpav??cik?d?n?? spar?ena vy?b?dhanam / prade?ena r?pa?a? katamat / de?ena r?pa?a mida? ceda? ca r?pameva? caiva? ca r?pamiti pra?ihit?pra?ihitacetovitarke?a pratibimbacitr?k?rat? // What is the characteristic (laksana) of matter? Change is the characteristic of matter. It has two forms: change in contact and change in localization. What is change in contact? It is the alteration caused by contact by a hand, a foot, a stone, a weapon, a stick, cold, heat, hunger, thirst, a mosquito, a gadfly, a snake, a scorpion, etc. What is change in localization? It is the imagination of form, through determined or undetermined mental conception, as such and such or some such other form. (W. Boin-Webb?s English tr. of W. Rahula?s French tr.). == The Su?ruta-sa?hit? describes five types of mosquitos, but only considers them to cause local pain, not transmit disease, though the bite of one of the five is considered similar to the bite of lethal insects). >From Kaviraj Kunja Lal Bhishagratna, An English Translation of the Sushruta Samhita, v. 2, Calcutta: 1911. (I don?t have an e-copy of the Skt to paste from, but Jolly provides it in ?Mosquitoes and Fever in Su?ruta? with a different translation, but the same conclusion, as above ? the ancient and medieval Indian medical sources do not connect mosquitos with malaria or disease other than local irritation, except for one lethal variety.) from Ch. 3 (diacriticals as in the book): "Locations : ?An animal poison is usually situated in the following parts, viz; the sight, breath, teeth, nails, urine, stool, semen, saliva, menstrual blood, stings, belching*, anus, bones, bile, bristles (?uka) and in the dead body of an animal. 3. "Of these, the venom of celestial serpents lies in their sight and breath, that of the terrestrial ones in their fangs while that of cats, dogs, monkeys, Makara (alligators?), Frogs, P?ka-matsyas (a kind of insect), lizards (Godh?), mollusks (Snails), Prachalakas (a kind of insect), domestic lizards, four-legged insects and of any other species of flies such as mosquitoes, etc., lies in their teeth and nails. 4. The venom of a Chipita, Pichchataka, Kash?ya-v?sika, Sarshapa-v?sika, Totaka, Varchah-kita, Kaun- dilyaka and such-like insects lies in their urine and excreta. The poison of a mouse or rat lies in its semen, while that of a Lut? (spider) lies in its saliva, urine, excreta, fangs, nails, semen and menstrual fluid (ovum). 5 ?6. "The venom of a scorpion, Vi?vambhara, R?jiva-fish, Uchchitinga (cricket) and a sea-scorpion lies in their saliva. The venom of a Chitra-?irah, Sar?va, Kurdi?ata, D?ruka, Arimedaka and ??rik?-mukha, lies in their fangs, belching, stool and urine. The venom of a fly, a Kanabha and leeches lies in their fangs. The poison lies in the bones of an animal killed by any poison, as well as in those of a snake, a Varati and a fish*. The poison lies in the bile of a ?akuli, a Rakta-r?ji and a Ch?raki fish. The poison lies in the bristles (?uka) and the head of a Sukshma-tunda, an Uchchitinga (cricket), a wasp, a centipede (?atapadi), a ?uka, a Vala bhika, a ?ringi and a bee. The dead body of a snake or an insect is poisonous in itself. Animals not included in the above list should be deemed as belonging to the fang-venomed species i.e., the poison lies in their fangs. 7? 11.? == It goes on (ch. 8) to discuss ?characteristic features and purifications of poisoned water, etc.? Later it discusses bites from various types of insects, etc., such as centipedes (?ata-padi), poisonous frogs (manduka), ants (pipilik?), ?stinging flies? (makshik?), and mosquitos (ma?akas): "Ma?akas (Mosquitoes):?Mosquitoes (Ma?akas) are divided into five species, viz., the S?mudra, Pari-mandala, Hasti-ma?aka, Krishna and the Parvatiya. A mosquito (Ma?aka)-bite is characterised by a severe itching and swelling of the affected locality; while the symptoms which mark a bite by a Parvatiya one are similar to those of a bite by fatally venomous insects, and a sting of the points of their antennae is followed by the appearance of pustules (Pidak?) attended with a burning sensation and suppuration therein, when scratched by the finger-nails. The characteristic features of a bite by Jalaukas (leeches) with the mode of treatment thereof have already been described. 18.? Dan From saf at safarmer.com Fri Oct 23 18:35:01 2020 From: saf at safarmer.com (Steve Farmer) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 11:35:01 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jim, > I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any suggestions. I take it you?re looking for premodern references of the sort that Dan?s email provides, copied below. But NB his correct suggestion that none of these link disease transmission to mosquitoes or other insects. That only came following Sir Patrick Manson?s work in China in the late 1870s on mosquitoes as a vector for human filariasis, Charles Finlay?s early work on yellow fever in Cuba starting in 1881 ? which initially was widely ridiculed ? and finally Ronald Ross?s work in the Indian Medical Service in the 1890s, which definitively identified the malarial parasite in the gut of mosquitoes transmitting the disease. For that work in 1902 Ross received the second Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine. A great account by Ross of his work on mosquitoes and malaria ? and his life in India as well, where he was born ? is found in his massive (and wonderfully eccentric) 1923 memoirs, which you can find scanned in online here: https://tinyurl.com/yxo7taao The strictly medical literature on mosquitoes, India, and many of these other diseases for obvious reasons is massive. A PubMed key word search I made this morning on India, mosquitoes, and malaria ? leaving aside all other mosquito-transmitted viruses now known (e.g., Zika, West Nile virus, Chikungunya virus, dengue, yellow fever, etc.) ? came up with over 4000 titles, going back to an 1899 article in the Indian Medical Gazette entitled ?The Extermination of Mosquitoes,? which refers to Ross?s revolutionary work. This paper and many other early papers on related themes are now scanned in and available at PubMed. Google scholar, which covers papers in non-medical journals as well, will give many thousands more. In the Victorian era ? due to the obvious importance of yellow fever and malaria to the Empire ? discussions of malaria, in later periods mosquitoes, and related political issues were a recurrent theme in British literature. For a fine account of that literature, see Jessica Howell?s new book from Cambridge U. Press (2019), Malaria and Victorian Fictions of Empire. Her substantial bibliography starts on p. 202. That, and a good bit of her book as a whole, is available via Amazon. Go to https://tinyurl.com/yybqhfjf Cheers, Steve The Systems Biology Group Palo Alto, CA > On Oct 23, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear James, et al., > > The idea of disease had not yet included the discovery of germs (there were occasional theories from Greece, Rome, Medieval Islamic medicine about infectious ?seeds? that could be transmitted by contact or through the air, but identifying actual germs awaited the 19th c in the west), so in ancient and medieval India the belief was that disease was more likely to be caused by an imbalance of the three do?as, demons, bad hygiene, or immodest lifestyle, but not by germ transmission. So mosquitos and snakes ? one causing temporary discomfort, and the other more dangerous because of lethal venom ? were not considered disease transmitters per se. > > There is a stock phrase repeated numerous times in Buddhist texts, initially in the Nik?yas as examples of painful adversities, and in later texts, such as Asa?ga?s Abhidharmasamuccaya, with a slightly expanded list, as examples of r?pic impingement. > > One such example from the Majjhima-nik?ya: > > Sabb?sava Sutta [Skt: Sarva-?srava] (MN 2 / MN i 6 ) > > Katame ca, bhikkhave, ?sav? pa?isevan? pah?tabb?? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu pa?isa?kh? yoniso c?vara? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva hirikop?nappa?icch?danattha??. > > And what are the defilements that should be given up by using? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, makes use of robes: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; and for covering up the private parts.? > (Bhikkhu Sujato tr.) > > ?What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by using? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, uses the robe only for protection from cold, for protection from heat, for protection from contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things, and only for the purpose of concealing the private parts. > (Bhikkhu Bodhi tr.) > > And what, monks, are the cankers to be got rid of by use? (1) In this teaching, monks, a monk, wisely reflective, uses a robe simply for warding off the cold, for warding off the heat, for warding off the touch of gadfly, mosquito, wind and sun, creeping things, simply for the sake of covering his nakedness. > (I.B. Horner tr.) > > [?] > > Pa?isa?kh? yoniso sen?sana? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva utuparissayavinodanapa?isall?n?r?mattha??. > > Reflecting properly, they make use of lodgings: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; to shelter from harsh weather and to enjoy retreat.? > (Sujato) > > == > But one is expected to tolerate these sorts of pains and adversities, so they are not thinking of them as occasions for contracting lethal diseases ? the snakes have venom, which of course they acknowledge, but the texts also advocate tolerating snake bites as well. > > == > Asa?ga, Abhidharmasamuccaya: > > Gokhale ed., p. 2: > ki?lak?a?a? r?pam / r?pa?a lak?a?a? r?pam / tad dvividham / spar?ena r?pa?a? prade?ena r?pa?a? ca / spar?ena r?pa?a? katamat / karacara?ap????a?asrada??a??to??ak?utpip?s?ma?akada??asarpav??cik?d?n?? spar?ena vy?b?dhanam / prade?ena r?pa?a? katamat / de?ena r?pa?a mida? ceda? ca r?pameva? caiva? ca r?pamiti pra?ihit?pra?ihitacetovitarke?a pratibimbacitr?k?rat? // > > What is the characteristic (laksana) of matter? Change is the characteristic of matter. It has two forms: change in contact and change in localization. What is change in contact? It is the alteration caused by contact by a hand, a foot, a stone, a weapon, a stick, cold, heat, hunger, thirst, a mosquito, a gadfly, a snake, a scorpion, etc. What is change in localization? It is the imagination of form, through determined or undetermined mental conception, as such and such or some such other form. > (W. Boin-Webb?s English tr. of W. Rahula?s French tr.). > == > > The Su?ruta-sa?hit? describes five types of mosquitos, but only considers them to cause local pain, not transmit disease, though the bite of one of the five is considered similar to the bite of lethal insects). > > From Kaviraj Kunja Lal Bhishagratna, An English Translation of the Sushruta Samhita, v. 2, Calcutta: 1911. > > (I don?t have an e-copy of the Skt to paste from, but Jolly provides it in ?Mosquitoes and Fever in Su?ruta? with a different translation, but the same conclusion, as above ? the ancient and medieval Indian medical sources do not connect mosquitos with malaria or disease other than local irritation, except for one lethal variety.) > > from Ch. 3 (diacriticals as in the book): > > "Locations : ?An animal poison is usually situated in the following parts, viz; the sight, breath, teeth, nails, urine, stool, semen, saliva, menstrual blood, stings, belching*, anus, bones, bile, bristles (?uka) and in the dead body of an animal. 3. > "Of these, the venom of celestial serpents lies in their sight and breath, that of the terrestrial ones in their fangs while that of cats, dogs, monkeys, Makara (alligators?), Frogs, P?ka-matsyas (a kind of insect), lizards (Godh?), mollusks (Snails), Prachalakas (a kind of insect), domestic lizards, four-legged insects and of any other species of flies such as mosquitoes, etc., lies in their teeth and nails. 4. > The venom of a Chipita, Pichchataka, Kash?ya-v?sika, Sarshapa-v?sika, Totaka, Varchah-kita, Kaun- dilyaka and such-like insects lies in their urine and excreta. The poison of a mouse or rat lies in its semen, while that of a Lut? (spider) lies in its saliva, urine, excreta, fangs, nails, semen and menstrual fluid (ovum). 5 ?6. > "The venom of a scorpion, Vi?vambhara, R?jiva-fish, Uchchitinga (cricket) and a sea-scorpion lies in their saliva. The venom of a Chitra-?irah, Sar?va, Kurdi?ata, D?ruka, Arimedaka and ??rik?-mukha, lies in their fangs, belching, stool and urine. The venom of a fly, a Kanabha and leeches lies in their fangs. The poison lies in the bones of an animal killed by any poison, as well as in those of a snake, a Varati and a fish*. The poison lies in the bile of a ?akuli, a Rakta-r?ji and a Ch?raki fish. The poison lies in the bristles (?uka) and the head of a Sukshma-tunda, an Uchchitinga (cricket), a wasp, a centipede (?atapadi), a ?uka, a Vala bhika, a ?ringi and a bee. The dead body of a snake or an insect is poisonous in itself. Animals not included in the above list should be deemed as belonging to the fang-venomed species i.e., the poison lies in their fangs. 7? 11.? > > == > It goes on (ch. 8) to discuss ?characteristic features and purifications of poisoned water, etc.? > > Later it discusses bites from various types of insects, etc., such as centipedes (?ata-padi), poisonous frogs (manduka), ants (pipilik?), ?stinging flies? (makshik?), and mosquitos (ma?akas): > > "Ma?akas (Mosquitoes):?Mosquitoes (Ma?akas) are divided into five species, viz., the S?mudra, Pari-mandala, Hasti-ma?aka, Krishna and the Parvatiya. A mosquito (Ma?aka)-bite is characterised by a severe itching and swelling of the affected locality; while the symptoms which mark a bite by a Parvatiya one are similar to those of a bite by fatally venomous insects, and a sting of the points of their antennae is followed by the appearance of pustules (Pidak?) attended with a burning sensation and suppuration therein, when scratched by the finger-nails. The characteristic features of a bite by Jalaukas (leeches) with the mode of treatment thereof have already been described. 18.? > > Dan > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de Fri Oct 23 18:37:52 2020 From: pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 20:37:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9D1052B3-AC0E-40C6-B000-6C83362D8131@uni-bonn.de> Am 23.10.2020 um 14:24 schrieb James Mallinson via INDOLOGY : > > I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any suggestions. Just to add some more references: Ann Heirman: How to Deal with Dangerous and Annoying Animals: A Vinaya Perspective, in: Religions 10 (2019), No. 2 (URL: ) Pali J?taka story, no. 44: called ?Mosquito Jataka? or ?Boy and Mosquito? (Makasa-J?taka) T. R. Mitra: Taxonomic assessment of insects recorded in K?lid?sa?s works, in: Records of the Zoological Survey of India, 105 (2005), pp. 97-103 (URL: ), pointing to older articles like: C.S. Gupta: Insects in the Literature of K?lid?sa, in: Bulletin of the National Institute of Sciences of India, 1961, pp. 145-172. Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Br?hler Stra?e 7 53119 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 21:00:23 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 15:00:23 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What Dan and others say is quite right. Ayurvedic literature works with various etiologies: humoral, environmental, seasonal, karmic, etc., with contagion only faintly referenced. Ken Zysk and Rahul Peter Das have both written about contagion in the classical texts, while one can also point to the contagious transmission of syphilis mentioned by Bh?vami?ra in his *Bh?vaprak??a* (16 cent.). Having a medical system that explains disease in terms of individual constitutions raises a difficulty for physicians when faced with finding an explanatory model for epidemic disease (janapadoddhva?sa), where everyone comes down with the same symptoms in spite of being different people. In this case, the explanation is that the shared environment is blighted. (Caraka offers a chapter that has much in common with the Hippocratic treatise "Airs, Waters, Places" as Zysk has discussed.) And one of the elements in that blight is mosquitoes. In my essay "Models of Disease in Ayurvedic Medicine" I go into this and give more detail (pp. 46-8 of the published version). Best, Dominik -- - Das, R. P. (2000). ?Notions of ?contagion? in Classical Indian Medical Texts.? Contagion: Perspectives from Pre-modern Societies, pp. 55?78. - Wujastyk, D. (2017). ?Models of Disease in Ayurvedic Medicine.? (ed.) Jackson M.*The Routledge History of Disease*, pp. 38?53. Routledge: Abingdon. DOI: 10.4324/9781315543420. Draft copy at https://www.academia.edu/25517629/. - Zysk, K. G. (2000). ?Does Ancient Indian Medicine Have a Theory of Contagion?? (ed.) Conrad L. I. & Wujastyk D.Contagion: Perspectives from Pre-modern Societies, pp. 79?95. Ashgate: Aldershot, Burlington USA, Singapore, Sydney. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 12:35, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other > disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the > indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any > suggestions. > > > I take it you?re looking for premodern references of the sort that Dan?s > email provides, copied below. But NB his correct suggestion that none of > these link disease transmission to mosquitoes or other insects. That only > came following Sir Patrick Manson?s work in China in the late 1870s on > mosquitoes as a vector for human filariasis, Charles Finlay?s early work > on yellow fever in Cuba starting in 1881 ? which initially was widely > ridiculed ? and finally Ronald Ross?s work in the Indian Medical Service in > the 1890s, which definitively identified the malarial parasite in the gut > of mosquitoes transmitting the disease. > > For that work in 1902 Ross received the second Nobel Prize in Physiology > and Medicine. A great account by Ross of his work on mosquitoes and malaria > ? and his life in India as well, where he was born ? is found in his > massive (and wonderfully eccentric) 1923 memoirs, which you can find > scanned in online here: *https://tinyurl.com/yxo7taao > * > > The strictly medical literature on mosquitoes, India, and many of these > other diseases for obvious reasons is massive. A PubMed key word search I > made this morning on India, mosquitoes, and malaria ? leaving aside all > other mosquito-transmitted viruses now known (e.g., Zika, West Nile > virus, Chikungunya virus, dengue, yellow fever, etc.) ? came up with over > 4000 titles, going back to an 1899 article in the *Indian Medical Gazette* > entitled ?The Extermination of Mosquitoes,? which refers to Ross?s > revolutionary work. > > This paper and many other early papers on related themes are now scanned > in and available at PubMed. Google scholar, which covers papers in > non-medical journals as well, will give many thousands more. > > In the Victorian era ? due to the obvious importance of yellow fever and > malaria to the Empire ? discussions of malaria, in later periods > mosquitoes, and related political issues were a recurrent theme in British > literature. For a fine account of that literature, see Jessica Howell?s > new book from Cambridge U. Press (2019), *Malaria and Victorian Fictions > of Empire. * > > Her substantial bibliography starts on p. 202. That, and a good bit of her > book as a whole, is available via Amazon. Go to *https://tinyurl.com/yybqhfjf > * > > Cheers, > Steve > > The Systems Biology Group > Palo Alto, CA > > On Oct 23, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear James, et al., > > The idea of disease had not yet included the discovery of germs (there > were occasional theories from Greece, Rome, Medieval Islamic medicine about > infectious ?seeds? that could be transmitted by contact or through the air, > but identifying actual germs awaited the 19th c in the west), so in ancient > and medieval India the belief was that disease was more likely to be caused > by an imbalance of the three do?as, demons, bad hygiene, or immodest > lifestyle, but not by germ transmission. So mosquitos and snakes ? one > causing temporary discomfort, and the other more dangerous because of > lethal venom ? were not considered disease transmitters per se. > > There is a stock phrase repeated numerous times in Buddhist texts, > initially in the Nik?yas as examples of painful adversities, and in later > texts, such as Asa?ga?s Abhidharmasamuccaya, with a slightly expanded list, > as examples of r?pic impingement. > > One such example from the Majjhima-nik?ya: > > Sabb?sava Sutta [Skt: Sarva-?srava] (MN 2 / MN i 6 ) > > Katame ca, bhikkhave, ?sav? pa?isevan? pah?tabb?? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu > pa?isa?kh? yoniso c?vara? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, > u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, > y?vadeva hirikop?nappa?icch?danattha??. > > And what are the defilements that should be given up by using? Take a > mendicant who, reflecting properly, makes use of robes: ?Only for the sake > of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, > mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; and for covering up the private > parts.? > (Bhikkhu Sujato tr.) > > ?What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by using? Here a bhikkhu, > reflecting wisely, uses the robe only for protection from cold, for > protection from heat, for protection from contact with gadflies, > mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things, and only for the purpose of > concealing the private parts. > (Bhikkhu Bodhi tr.) > > And what, monks, are the cankers to be got rid of by use? (1) In this > teaching, monks, a monk, wisely reflective, uses a robe simply for warding > off the cold, for warding off the heat, for warding off the touch of > gadfly, mosquito, wind and sun, creeping things, simply for the sake of > covering his nakedness. > (I.B. Horner tr.) > > [?] > > Pa?isa?kh? yoniso sen?sana? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, > u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, > y?vadeva utuparissayavinodanapa?isall?n?r?mattha??. > > Reflecting properly, they make use of lodgings: ?Only for the sake of > warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, > wind, sun, and reptiles; to shelter from harsh weather and to enjoy > retreat.? > (Sujato) > > == > But one is expected to tolerate these sorts of pains and adversities, so > they are not thinking of them as occasions for contracting lethal diseases > ? the snakes have venom, which of course they acknowledge, but the texts > also advocate tolerating snake bites as well. > > == > Asa?ga, Abhidharmasamuccaya: > > Gokhale ed., p. 2: > ki?lak?a?a? r?pam / r?pa?a lak?a?a? r?pam / tad dvividham / spar?ena > r?pa?a? prade?ena r?pa?a? ca / spar?ena r?pa?a? katamat / > karacara?ap????a?asrada??a??to??ak?utpip?s?ma?akada??asarpav??cik?d?n?? > spar?ena vy?b?dhanam / prade?ena r?pa?a? katamat / de?ena r?pa?a mida? > ceda? ca r?pameva? caiva? ca r?pamiti pra?ihit?pra?ihitacetovitarke?a > pratibimbacitr?k?rat? // > > What is the characteristic (laksana) of matter? Change is the > characteristic of matter. It has two forms: change in contact and change in > localization. What is change in contact? It is the alteration caused by > contact by a hand, a foot, a stone, a weapon, a stick, cold, heat, hunger, > thirst, a mosquito, a gadfly, a snake, a scorpion, etc. What is change in > localization? It is the imagination of form, through determined or > undetermined mental conception, as such and such or some such other form. > (W. Boin-Webb?s English tr. of W. Rahula?s French tr.). > == > > The Su?ruta-sa?hit? describes five types of mosquitos, but only considers > them to cause local pain, not transmit disease, though the bite of one of > the five is considered similar to the bite of lethal insects). > > From Kaviraj Kunja Lal Bhishagratna, An English Translation of the > Sushruta Samhita, v. 2, Calcutta: 1911. > > (I don?t have an e-copy of the Skt to paste from, but Jolly provides it in > ?Mosquitoes and Fever in Su?ruta? with a different translation, but the > same conclusion, as above ? the ancient and medieval Indian medical sources > do not connect mosquitos with malaria or disease other than local > irritation, except for one lethal variety.) > > from Ch. 3 (diacriticals as in the book): > > "Locations : ?An animal poison is usually situated in the following parts, > viz; the sight, breath, teeth, nails, urine, stool, semen, saliva, > menstrual blood, stings, belching*, anus, bones, bile, bristles (?uka) and > in the dead body of an animal. 3. > "Of these, the venom of celestial serpents lies in their sight and breath, > that of the terrestrial ones in their fangs while that of cats, dogs, > monkeys, Makara (alligators?), Frogs, P?ka-matsyas (a kind of insect), > lizards (Godh?), mollusks (Snails), Prachalakas (a kind of insect), > domestic lizards, four-legged insects and of any other species of flies > such as mosquitoes, etc., lies in their teeth and nails. 4. > The venom of a Chipita, Pichchataka, Kash?ya-v?sika, Sarshapa-v?sika, > Totaka, Varchah-kita, Kaun- dilyaka and such-like insects lies in their > urine and excreta. The poison of a mouse or rat lies in its semen, while > that of a Lut? (spider) lies in its saliva, urine, excreta, fangs, nails, > semen and menstrual fluid (ovum). 5 ?6. > "The venom of a scorpion, Vi?vambhara, R?jiva-fish, Uchchitinga (cricket) > and a sea-scorpion lies in their saliva. The venom of a Chitra-?irah, > Sar?va, Kurdi?ata, D?ruka, Arimedaka and ??rik?-mukha, lies in their fangs, > belching, stool and urine. The venom of a fly, a Kanabha and leeches lies > in their fangs. The poison lies in the bones of an animal killed by any > poison, as well as in those of a snake, a Varati and a fish*. The poison > lies in the bile of a ?akuli, a Rakta-r?ji and a Ch?raki fish. The poison > lies in the bristles (?uka) and the head of a Sukshma-tunda, an Uchchitinga > (cricket), a wasp, a centipede (?atapadi), a ?uka, a Vala bhika, a ?ringi > and a bee. The dead body of a snake or an insect is poisonous in itself. > Animals not included in the above list should be deemed as belonging to the > fang-venomed species i.e., the poison lies in their fangs. 7? 11.? > > == > It goes on (ch. 8) to discuss ?characteristic features and purifications > of poisoned water, etc.? > > Later it discusses bites from various types of insects, etc., such as > centipedes (?ata-padi), poisonous frogs (manduka), ants (pipilik?), > ?stinging flies? (makshik?), and mosquitos (ma?akas): > > "Ma?akas (Mosquitoes):?Mosquitoes (Ma?akas) are divided into five species, > viz., the S?mudra, Pari-mandala, Hasti-ma?aka, Krishna and the Parvatiya. A > mosquito (Ma?aka)-bite is characterised by a severe itching and swelling of > the affected locality; while the symptoms which mark a bite by a Parvatiya > one are similar to those of a bite by fatally venomous insects, and a sting > of the points of their antennae is followed by the appearance of pustules > (Pidak?) attended with a burning sensation and suppuration therein, when > scratched by the finger-nails. The characteristic features of a bite by > Jalaukas (leeches) with the mode of treatment thereof have already been > described. 18.? > > Dan > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Fri Oct 23 22:22:09 2020 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 17:22:09 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology of Skt. nilaya In-Reply-To: <5D038DE9-D8D5-4B56-AC9B-ECBAE05B3346.ref@aol.com> Message-ID: <5D038DE9-D8D5-4B56-AC9B-ECBAE05B3346@aol.com> Dear Indologists, CDIAL 7407 shows the following entry for Skt. nilaya showing an IA etymology. nilaya m. ? den, lair, home ? MBh. [?l?1] Pa. nilaya -- m. ? dwelling, lair, nest ?; Pk. ?ilaya -- m. ? house, resting -- place ?; OB. nilaa ? abode ? ODBL 912; Si. nila ? house ?. On the other hand, DEDR 3675 shows the following for *nil-*. Ta. nil (nirp-, ni??-) to stand, stop, halt, be steadfast, stay, continue, cease, be stopped, remain, wait, delay;? nilai standing, staying, firmness, stability, permanence, condition, state, place, stopping place, residence, depth of water allowing one to stand in, usage, custom;? Ka. nil (nilt-/ nind-), nilu, nillu to stand still, stand, stand up, stop, stay, wait, remain, be left, last, remain fixed, cease, rest, endure; ? nele standing, standing place, abode, place, basis, firmness, certainty, certain knowledge;? Ko?. nill- (nipp-, nind-) to stand; nele halting place? Te. nilucu to stand, rise, get up, last, continue, remain, exist, stop, stay, halt, cease, endure, be preserved or saved, survive;? nela place; nela konu to become firm, stay, be, stand; (K.) ? Kur. iln? (ilcas/ illas) to get up, rise to one's feet; ijn? (ijjas) to be stationary in an upright position, rise to one's feet, stand on end, stop, halt, pause, maintain a fixed or steady attitude, persist, persevere; ildn?, ilda'?n?, ilta'?n?, ijta'?n? to erect, set up, rest against. Malt. ile (ij-) to stand; ilde to make to stand. ? Cf. 3689 Kui n?m ba. DED(S) 3043. It looks like Skt. nilaya is a borrowing from Dravidian. For comparison, see DEDR 4742 with the following entries for Ta. malai and its cognates. Ta. malai hill, mountain. Ma. mala mountain, raised land, hill-land. Ko. mal im buffaloes of the Nilgiri tribes (i.e. mountain buffaloes); mal a?? high downs on western half of Nilgiri plateau. To. mas? o?? id; mal the mountains (Nilgiris as opposed to the plains). Ka. male mountain, forest; (PBh.) malepar chieftains of mountainous regions. Ko?. male thick jungle land, cardamom plantation in jungle on mountain-side. Tu. mal? forest, hill overgrown with forest. Te. mala mountain. Kol. ma?le, (Haig) m?l? hill. Pa. mala?g forest. ? Ga. (Oll.) mare (pl. marel) hillock; (S.) m?re (pl. m?rel) hill. Br. mash hill, mountain. / Cf. Skt. malaya- mountain range on the east of Malabar, the western Gh?ts; garden, celestial grove; ? m?la- forest or wood near a village; ? m?laka- wood near a village. DED 3882. A Concise Etymological Dictionary of 1956 by Manfred Mayrhofer gives a Dravidian origin for Skt. Malaya. The same process that operated in the formation of Skt. malaya seems to have operated in the case of Skt. nilaya (< Dr. *nil-.) How did Manfred Mayrhofer explain Skt. nilaya in his later etymological dictionary? Thank you in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan ??? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Oct 23 23:13:03 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 16:13:03 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology of Skt. nilaya In-Reply-To: <5D038DE9-D8D5-4B56-AC9B-ECBAE05B3346@aol.com> Message-ID: As for Sanskrit *nilaya*, we not only have the noun *nilaya*, but the verb *ni+l?yate*, which is productively used in Sanskrit, along with words like *nil?na,* a participle. The verb *l?yate *can occur by itself, with derivatives like *laya* and *l?na*, and also with other preverbs, e.g. *pra-l?yate*, with derivatives like *pralaya *and *pral?na*. Given this state of Sanskrit usage, how would one deal with the suggested Dravidian etymology? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 3:23 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > > > CDIAL 7407 shows the following entry for Skt. nilaya showing an IA > etymology. > > *nilaya* m. ? den, lair, home ? MBh. [?l?1] > Pa. *nilaya* -- m. ? dwelling, lair, nest ?; Pk. *?ilaya* -- m. ? house, > resting -- place ?; OB. *nilaa* ? abode ? ODBL 912; Si. *nila* ? house ?. > > > > On the other hand, DEDR 3675 shows the following for **nil-**. > > *Ta.** nil (nirp-, ni??-)* to stand, stop, halt, be steadfast, stay, > continue, cease, be stopped, remain, wait, delay;? *nilai* standing, > staying, firmness, stability, permanence, condition, state, place, stopping > place, residence, depth of water allowing one to stand in, usage, custom;? > *Ka.** nil (nilt-/ nind-), nilu, nillu* to stand still, stand, stand up, > stop, stay, wait, remain, be left, last, remain fixed, cease, rest, endure; > ?* nele* standing, standing place, abode, place, basis, firmness, > certainty, certain knowledge;?* Ko?. nill- (nipp-, nind-)* to stand; > *nele* halting place? * Te. nilucu* to stand, rise, get up, last, > continue, remain, exist, stop, stay, halt, cease, endure, be preserved or > saved, survive;? *nela* place; *nela konu* to become firm, stay, be, > stand; (K.) *? Kur. iln? (ilcas/ illas)* to get up, rise to one's feet; *ijn? > (ijjas)* to be stationary in an upright position, rise to one's feet, > stand on end, stop, halt, pause, maintain a fixed or steady attitude, > persist, persevere; *ildn?, ilda'?n?, ilta'?n?, ijta'?n?* to erect, set > up, rest against. *Malt. ile (ij-)* to stand; *ilde* to make to stand. ? > Cf. 3689 Kui *n?m ba.* DED(S) 3043. > > > > It looks like Skt. nilaya is a borrowing from Dravidian. > > > > For comparison, see DEDR 4742 with the following entries for Ta. malai > and its cognates. > > > > *Ta.** malai* hill, mountain. *Ma.** mala* mountain, raised land, > hill-land. *Ko.** mal im* buffaloes of the Nilgiri tribes (i.e. mountain > buffaloes); *mal a**?**?* high downs on western half of Nilgiri plateau. > *To.** mas? o**?**?* id; *mal* the mountains (Nilgiris as opposed to the > plains). *Ka.** male* mountain, forest; (PBh.) *malepar* chieftains of > mountainous regions. *Ko?.** male* thick jungle land, cardamom plantation > in jungle on mountain-side. *Tu.** mal?* forest, hill overgrown with > forest. *Te.** mala *mountain. *Kol.** ma**?**le*, (Haig) *m?l?* hill. > *Pa.** mala?g* forest. ? *Ga.* (Oll.) *mare (pl. marel)* hillock; (S.) *m?re > (pl. m?rel)* hill. *Br.** mash* hill, mountain. / Cf. Skt. *malaya-* mountain > range on the east of Malabar, the western Gh?ts; garden, celestial grove; ? > *m?la-* forest or wood near a village; ? *m?laka-* wood near a village. > DED 3882. > > > > A Concise Etymological Dictionary of 1956 by Manfred Mayrhofer gives a > Dravidian origin for Skt. Malaya. > > > > The same process that operated in the formation of Skt. malaya seems to > have operated in the case of Skt. nilaya (< Dr. *nil-.) > > > > How did Manfred Mayrhofer explain Skt. nilaya in his later etymological > dictionary? > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > > Regards, > > S. Palaniappan > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Sat Oct 24 01:44:53 2020 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 20 01:44:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology of Skt. nilaya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9441108A-3BAD-46C7-8E43-981586D4B6E2@illinois.edu> Add to this ?laya-. All of this suggests a Sanskrit-based account. Mayrhofer (1992) has a root lay- ?sich schmiegen, anhaften?, i.e. ?nestle, stick to?, and cites forms like perf. lilye, lay?? cakre, aor. (ny)?le??a, and ta-participle n?-l?na- ?versteckt, sich an etwas heftend? = ?hidden, sticking to something?. Further, he compares ?le??a to Hittite ?-li-i?-ta ?hid himself?, PIE root probably *leyH- ?to hide oneself?. He is less certain about connecting pra-laya-, vi-l?yate, suggesting that these forms may be built on an originally different [but possibly homophonous] root meaning ?cease, dwindle, fade away?. So, yes, a Dravidian origin does not seem likely. All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 23 Oct2020, at 18:13, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: As for Sanskrit nilaya, we not only have the noun nilaya, but the verb ni+l?yate, which is productively used in Sanskrit, along with words like nil?na, a participle. The verb l?yate can occur by itself, with derivatives like laya and l?na, and also with other preverbs, e.g. pra-l?yate, with derivatives like pralaya and pral?na. Given this state of Sanskrit usage, how would one deal with the suggested Dravidian etymology? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 3:23 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Indologists, CDIAL 7407 shows the following entry for Skt. nilaya showing an IA etymology. nilaya m. ? den, lair, home ? MBh. [?l?1] Pa. nilaya -- m. ? dwelling, lair, nest ?; Pk. ?ilaya -- m. ? house, resting -- place ?; OB. nilaa ? abode ? ODBL 912; Si. nila ? house ?. On the other hand, DEDR 3675 shows the following for *nil-*. Ta. nil (nirp-, ni??-) to stand, stop, halt, be steadfast, stay, continue, cease, be stopped, remain, wait, delay;? nilai standing, staying, firmness, stability, permanence, condition, state, place, stopping place, residence, depth of water allowing one to stand in, usage, custom;? Ka. nil (nilt-/ nind-), nilu, nillu to stand still, stand, stand up, stop, stay, wait, remain, be left, last, remain fixed, cease, rest, endure; ? nele standing, standing place, abode, place, basis, firmness, certainty, certain knowledge;? Ko?. nill- (nipp-, nind-) to stand; nele halting place? Te. nilucu to stand, rise, get up, last, continue, remain, exist, stop, stay, halt, cease, endure, be preserved or saved, survive;? nela place; nela konu to become firm, stay, be, stand; (K.) ? Kur. iln? (ilcas/ illas) to get up, rise to one's feet; ijn? (ijjas) to be stationary in an upright position, rise to one's feet, stand on end, stop, halt, pause, maintain a fixed or steady attitude, persist, persevere; ildn?, ilda'?n?, ilta'?n?, ijta'?n? to erect, set up, rest against. Malt. ile (ij-) to stand; ilde to make to stand. ? Cf. 3689 Kui n?m ba. DED(S) 3043. It looks like Skt. nilaya is a borrowing from Dravidian. For comparison, see DEDR 4742 with the following entries for Ta. malai and its cognates. Ta. malai hill, mountain. Ma. mala mountain, raised land, hill-land. Ko. mal im buffaloes of the Nilgiri tribes (i.e. mountain buffaloes); mal a?? high downs on western half of Nilgiri plateau. To. mas? o?? id; mal the mountains (Nilgiris as opposed to the plains). Ka. male mountain, forest; (PBh.) malepar chieftains of mountainous regions. Ko?. male thick jungle land, cardamom plantation in jungle on mountain-side. Tu. mal? forest, hill overgrown with forest. Te. mala mountain. Kol. ma?le, (Haig) m?l? hill. Pa. mala?g forest. ? Ga. (Oll.) mare (pl. marel) hillock; (S.) m?re (pl. m?rel) hill. Br. mash hill, mountain. / Cf. Skt. malaya- mountain range on the east of Malabar, the western Gh?ts; garden, celestial grove; ? m?la- forest or wood near a village; ? m?laka- wood near a village. DED 3882. A Concise Etymological Dictionary of 1956 by Manfred Mayrhofer gives a Dravidian origin for Skt. Malaya. The same process that operated in the formation of Skt. malaya seems to have operated in the case of Skt. nilaya (< Dr. *nil-.) How did Manfred Mayrhofer explain Skt. nilaya in his later etymological dictionary? Thank you in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 24 01:53:32 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 20 18:53:32 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology of Skt. nilaya In-Reply-To: <9441108A-3BAD-46C7-8E43-981586D4B6E2@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Add to this, *vilaya, vil?yate, vil?na *etc. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 6:45 PM Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Add to this *?laya-*. All of this suggests a Sanskrit-based account. > > Mayrhofer (1992) has a root *lay-* ?sich schmiegen, anhaften?, i.e. > ?nestle, stick to?, and cites forms like perf. *lilye*, *lay?? cakre,* aor. > *(ny)?le??a*, and ta-participle *n?-l?na-* ?versteckt, sich an etwas > heftend? = ?hidden, sticking to something?. Further, he compares *?le??a* to > Hittite *?-li-i?-ta* ?hid himself?, PIE root probably **leyH-* ?to hide > oneself?. He is less certain about connecting *pra-laya-, vi-l?yate, *suggesting > that these forms may be built on an originally different [but possibly > homophonous] root meaning ?cease, dwindle, fade away?. > > So, yes, a Dravidian origin does not seem likely. > > All the best, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > On 23 Oct2020, at 18:13, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > As for Sanskrit *nilaya*, we not only have the noun *nilaya*, but the > verb *ni+l?yate*, which is productively used in Sanskrit, along with > words like *nil?na,* a participle. The verb *l?yate *can occur by itself, > with derivatives like *laya* and *l?na*, and also with other preverbs, > e.g. *pra-l?yate*, with derivatives like *pralaya *and * pral?na*. Given > this state of Sanskrit usage, how would one deal with the suggested > Dravidian etymology? > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 3:23 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Indologists, >> >> >> >> CDIAL 7407 shows the following entry for Skt. nilaya showing an IA >> etymology. >> >> *nilaya* m. ? den, lair, home ? MBh. [?l?1] >> Pa. *nilaya* -- m. ? dwelling, lair, nest ?; Pk. *?ilaya* -- m. ? house, >> resting -- place ?; OB. *nilaa* ? abode ? ODBL 912; Si. *nila* ? house ?. >> >> >> >> On the other hand, DEDR 3675 shows the following for **nil-**. >> >> *Ta.** nil (nirp-, ni??-)* to stand, stop, halt, be steadfast, stay, >> continue, cease, be stopped, remain, wait, delay;? *nilai* standing, >> staying, firmness, stability, permanence, condition, state, place, stopping >> place, residence, depth of water allowing one to stand in, usage, custom;? >> *Ka.** nil (nilt-/ nind-), nilu, nillu* to stand still, stand, stand up, >> stop, stay, wait, remain, be left, last, remain fixed, cease, rest, endure; >> ?* nele* standing, standing place, abode, place, basis, firmness, >> certainty, certain knowledge;?* Ko?. nill- (nipp-, nind-)* to stand; >> *nele* halting place? * Te. nilucu* to stand, rise, get up, last, >> continue, remain, exist, stop, stay, halt, cease, endure, be preserved or >> saved, survive;? *nela* place; *nela konu* to become firm, stay, be, >> stand; (K.) *? Kur. iln? (ilcas/ illas)* to get up, rise to one's feet; *ijn? >> (ijjas)* to be stationary in an upright position, rise to one's feet, >> stand on end, stop, halt, pause, maintain a fixed or steady attitude, >> persist, persevere; *ildn?, ilda'?n?, ilta'?n?, ijta'?n?* to erect, set >> up, rest against. *Malt. ile (ij-)* to stand; *ilde* to make to stand. ? >> Cf. 3689 Kui *n?m ba.* DED(S) 3043. >> >> >> >> It looks like Skt. nilaya is a borrowing from Dravidian. >> >> >> >> For comparison, see DEDR 4742 with the following entries for Ta. malai >> and its cognates. >> >> >> >> *Ta.** malai* hill, mountain. *Ma.** mala* mountain, raised land, >> hill-land. *Ko.** mal im* buffaloes of the Nilgiri tribes (i.e. mountain >> buffaloes); *mal a**?**?* high downs on western half of Nilgiri plateau. >> *To.** mas? o**?**?* id; *mal* the mountains (Nilgiris as opposed to the >> plains). *Ka.** male* mountain, forest; (PBh.) *malepar* chieftains of >> mountainous regions. *Ko?.** male* thick jungle land, cardamom >> plantation in jungle on mountain-side. *Tu.** mal?* forest, hill >> overgrown with forest. *Te.** mala *mountain. *Kol.** ma**?**le*, (Haig) >> *m?l?* hill. *Pa.** mala?g* forest. ? *Ga.* (Oll.) *mare (pl. marel)* hillock; >> (S.) *m?re (pl. m?rel)* hill. *Br.** mash* hill, mountain. / Cf. Skt. >> *malaya-* mountain range on the east of Malabar, the western Gh?ts; >> garden, celestial grove; ? *m?la-* forest or wood near a village; ? >> *m?laka-* wood near a village. DED 3882. >> >> >> >> A Concise Etymological Dictionary of 1956 by Manfred Mayrhofer gives a >> Dravidian origin for Skt. Malaya. >> >> >> >> The same process that operated in the formation of Skt. malaya seems to >> have operated in the case of Skt. nilaya (< Dr. *nil-.) >> >> >> >> How did Manfred Mayrhofer explain Skt. nilaya in his later etymological >> dictionary? >> >> >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> S. Palaniappan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jm63 at soas.ac.uk Mon Oct 26 09:16:21 2020 From: jm63 at soas.ac.uk (James Mallinson) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 20 09:16:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mosquitoes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6784A1BD-806F-4D25-A216-74704796B2B4@soas.ac.uk> Dear colleagues, Many thanks to Patrick McCartney, Cristophe Vielle, Martin Straube, Lubom?r Ondra?ka, Asko Parpola, Klaus Karttunen, Dan Lusthaus, Steve Farmer, Peter Wyzlic and Dominik Wujastyk for their responses to my request for materials about mosquitoes and disease-bearing insects. As ever, I am bowled over by the generosity of the list?s members. Yours, with best wishes, Jim > On 23 Oct 2020, at 22:00, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > What Dan and others say is quite right. Ayurvedic literature works with various etiologies: humoral, environmental, seasonal, karmic, etc., with contagion only faintly referenced. Ken Zysk and Rahul Peter Das have both written about contagion in the classical texts, while one can also point to the contagious transmission of syphilis mentioned by Bh?vami?ra in his Bh?vaprak??a (16 cent.). > Having a medical system that explains disease in terms of individual constitutions raises a difficulty for physicians when faced with finding an explanatory model for epidemic disease (janapadoddhva?sa), where everyone comes down with the same symptoms in spite of being different people. In this case, the explanation is that the shared environment is blighted. (Caraka offers a chapter that has much in common with the Hippocratic treatise "Airs, Waters, Places" as Zysk has discussed.) And one of the elements in that blight is mosquitoes. In my essay "Models of Disease in Ayurvedic Medicine" I go into this and give more detail (pp. 46-8 of the published version). > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Das, R. P. (2000). ?Notions of ?contagion? in Classical Indian Medical Texts.? Contagion: Perspectives from Pre-modern Societies, pp. 55?78. > Wujastyk, D. (2017). ?Models of Disease in Ayurvedic Medicine.? (ed.) Jackson M.The Routledge History of Disease, pp. 38?53. Routledge: Abingdon. DOI: 10.4324/9781315543420. Draft copy at https://www.academia.edu/25517629/ . > Zysk, K. G. (2000). ?Does Ancient Indian Medicine Have a Theory of Contagion?? (ed.) Conrad L. I. & Wujastyk D.Contagion: Perspectives from Pre-modern Societies, pp. 79?95. Ashgate: Aldershot, Burlington USA, Singapore, Sydney. > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk , > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity, > Department of History and Classics , > University of Alberta, Canada. > > South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca > > On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 12:35, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY > wrote: > Hi Jim, > >> I?ve been asked whether I know of any studies of mosquitoes or other disease-carrying insects in Indian literature. I don?t, and a search of the indology archive reveals nothing either. I would be very grateful for any suggestions. > > I take it you?re looking for premodern references of the sort that Dan?s email provides, copied below. But NB his correct suggestion that none of these link disease transmission to mosquitoes or other insects. That only came following Sir Patrick Manson?s work in China in the late 1870s on mosquitoes as a vector for human filariasis, Charles Finlay?s early work on yellow fever in Cuba starting in 1881 ? which initially was widely ridiculed ? and finally Ronald Ross?s work in the Indian Medical Service in the 1890s, which definitively identified the malarial parasite in the gut of mosquitoes transmitting the disease. > > For that work in 1902 Ross received the second Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine. A great account by Ross of his work on mosquitoes and malaria ? and his life in India as well, where he was born ? is found in his massive (and wonderfully eccentric) 1923 memoirs, which you can find scanned in online here: https://tinyurl.com/yxo7taao > > The strictly medical literature on mosquitoes, India, and many of these other diseases for obvious reasons is massive. A PubMed key word search I made this morning on India, mosquitoes, and malaria ? leaving aside all other mosquito-transmitted viruses now known (e.g., Zika, West Nile virus, Chikungunya virus, dengue, yellow fever, etc.) ? came up with over 4000 titles, going back to an 1899 article in the Indian Medical Gazette entitled ?The Extermination of Mosquitoes,? which refers to Ross?s revolutionary work. > > This paper and many other early papers on related themes are now scanned in and available at PubMed. Google scholar, which covers papers in non-medical journals as well, will give many thousands more. > > In the Victorian era ? due to the obvious importance of yellow fever and malaria to the Empire ? discussions of malaria, in later periods mosquitoes, and related political issues were a recurrent theme in British literature. For a fine account of that literature, see Jessica Howell?s new book from Cambridge U. Press (2019), Malaria and Victorian Fictions of Empire. > > Her substantial bibliography starts on p. 202. That, and a good bit of her book as a whole, is available via Amazon. Go to https://tinyurl.com/yybqhfjf > > Cheers, > Steve > > The Systems Biology Group > Palo Alto, CA > >> On Oct 23, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY > wrote: >> >> Dear James, et al., >> >> The idea of disease had not yet included the discovery of germs (there were occasional theories from Greece, Rome, Medieval Islamic medicine about infectious ?seeds? that could be transmitted by contact or through the air, but identifying actual germs awaited the 19th c in the west), so in ancient and medieval India the belief was that disease was more likely to be caused by an imbalance of the three do?as, demons, bad hygiene, or immodest lifestyle, but not by germ transmission. So mosquitos and snakes ? one causing temporary discomfort, and the other more dangerous because of lethal venom ? were not considered disease transmitters per se. >> >> There is a stock phrase repeated numerous times in Buddhist texts, initially in the Nik?yas as examples of painful adversities, and in later texts, such as Asa?ga?s Abhidharmasamuccaya, with a slightly expanded list, as examples of r?pic impingement. >> >> One such example from the Majjhima-nik?ya: >> >> Sabb?sava Sutta [Skt: Sarva-?srava] (MN 2 / MN i 6 ) >> >> Katame ca, bhikkhave, ?sav? pa?isevan? pah?tabb?? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu pa?isa?kh? yoniso c?vara? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva hirikop?nappa?icch?danattha??. >> >> And what are the defilements that should be given up by using? Take a mendicant who, reflecting properly, makes use of robes: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; and for covering up the private parts.? >> (Bhikkhu Sujato tr.) >> >> ?What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by using? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, uses the robe only for protection from cold, for protection from heat, for protection from contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things, and only for the purpose of concealing the private parts. >> (Bhikkhu Bodhi tr.) >> >> And what, monks, are the cankers to be got rid of by use? (1) In this teaching, monks, a monk, wisely reflective, uses a robe simply for warding off the cold, for warding off the heat, for warding off the touch of gadfly, mosquito, wind and sun, creeping things, simply for the sake of covering his nakedness. >> (I.B. Horner tr.) >> >> [?] >> >> Pa?isa?kh? yoniso sen?sana? pa?isevati: ?y?vadeva s?tassa pa?igh?t?ya, u?hassa pa?igh?t?ya, ?a?samakasav?t?tapasar?sapasamphass?na? pa?igh?t?ya, y?vadeva utuparissayavinodanapa?isall?n?r?mattha??. >> >> Reflecting properly, they make use of lodgings: ?Only for the sake of warding off cold and heat; for warding off the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles; to shelter from harsh weather and to enjoy retreat.? >> (Sujato) >> >> == >> But one is expected to tolerate these sorts of pains and adversities, so they are not thinking of them as occasions for contracting lethal diseases ? the snakes have venom, which of course they acknowledge, but the texts also advocate tolerating snake bites as well. >> >> == >> Asa?ga, Abhidharmasamuccaya: >> >> Gokhale ed., p. 2: >> ki?lak?a?a? r?pam / r?pa?a lak?a?a? r?pam / tad dvividham / spar?ena r?pa?a? prade?ena r?pa?a? ca / spar?ena r?pa?a? katamat / karacara?ap????a?asrada??a??to??ak?utpip?s?ma?akada??asarpav??cik?d?n?? spar?ena vy?b?dhanam / prade?ena r?pa?a? katamat / de?ena r?pa?a mida? ceda? ca r?pameva? caiva? ca r?pamiti pra?ihit?pra?ihitacetovitarke?a pratibimbacitr?k?rat? // >> >> What is the characteristic (laksana) of matter? Change is the characteristic of matter. It has two forms: change in contact and change in localization. What is change in contact? It is the alteration caused by contact by a hand, a foot, a stone, a weapon, a stick, cold, heat, hunger, thirst, a mosquito, a gadfly, a snake, a scorpion, etc. What is change in localization? It is the imagination of form, through determined or undetermined mental conception, as such and such or some such other form. >> (W. Boin-Webb?s English tr. of W. Rahula?s French tr.). >> == >> >> The Su?ruta-sa?hit? describes five types of mosquitos, but only considers them to cause local pain, not transmit disease, though the bite of one of the five is considered similar to the bite of lethal insects). >> >> From Kaviraj Kunja Lal Bhishagratna, An English Translation of the Sushruta Samhita, v. 2, Calcutta: 1911. >> >> (I don?t have an e-copy of the Skt to paste from, but Jolly provides it in ?Mosquitoes and Fever in Su?ruta? with a different translation, but the same conclusion, as above ? the ancient and medieval Indian medical sources do not connect mosquitos with malaria or disease other than local irritation, except for one lethal variety.) >> >> from Ch. 3 (diacriticals as in the book): >> >> "Locations : ?An animal poison is usually situated in the following parts, viz; the sight, breath, teeth, nails, urine, stool, semen, saliva, menstrual blood, stings, belching*, anus, bones, bile, bristles (?uka) and in the dead body of an animal. 3. >> "Of these, the venom of celestial serpents lies in their sight and breath, that of the terrestrial ones in their fangs while that of cats, dogs, monkeys, Makara (alligators?), Frogs, P?ka-matsyas (a kind of insect), lizards (Godh?), mollusks (Snails), Prachalakas (a kind of insect), domestic lizards, four-legged insects and of any other species of flies such as mosquitoes, etc., lies in their teeth and nails. 4. >> The venom of a Chipita, Pichchataka, Kash?ya-v?sika, Sarshapa-v?sika, Totaka, Varchah-kita, Kaun- dilyaka and such-like insects lies in their urine and excreta. The poison of a mouse or rat lies in its semen, while that of a Lut? (spider) lies in its saliva, urine, excreta, fangs, nails, semen and menstrual fluid (ovum). 5 ?6. >> "The venom of a scorpion, Vi?vambhara, R?jiva-fish, Uchchitinga (cricket) and a sea-scorpion lies in their saliva. The venom of a Chitra-?irah, Sar?va, Kurdi?ata, D?ruka, Arimedaka and ??rik?-mukha, lies in their fangs, belching, stool and urine. The venom of a fly, a Kanabha and leeches lies in their fangs. The poison lies in the bones of an animal killed by any poison, as well as in those of a snake, a Varati and a fish*. The poison lies in the bile of a ?akuli, a Rakta-r?ji and a Ch?raki fish. The poison lies in the bristles (?uka) and the head of a Sukshma-tunda, an Uchchitinga (cricket), a wasp, a centipede (?atapadi), a ?uka, a Vala bhika, a ?ringi and a bee. The dead body of a snake or an insect is poisonous in itself. Animals not included in the above list should be deemed as belonging to the fang-venomed species i.e., the poison lies in their fangs. 7? 11.? >> >> == >> It goes on (ch. 8) to discuss ?characteristic features and purifications of poisoned water, etc.? >> >> Later it discusses bites from various types of insects, etc., such as centipedes (?ata-padi), poisonous frogs (manduka), ants (pipilik?), ?stinging flies? (makshik?), and mosquitos (ma?akas): >> >> "Ma?akas (Mosquitoes):?Mosquitoes (Ma?akas) are divided into five species, viz., the S?mudra, Pari-mandala, Hasti-ma?aka, Krishna and the Parvatiya. A mosquito (Ma?aka)-bite is characterised by a severe itching and swelling of the affected locality; while the symptoms which mark a bite by a Parvatiya one are similar to those of a bite by fatally venomous insects, and a sting of the points of their antennae is followed by the appearance of pustules (Pidak?) attended with a burning sensation and suppuration therein, when scratched by the finger-nails. The characteristic features of a bite by Jalaukas (leeches) with the mode of treatment thereof have already been described. 18.? >> >> Dan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 09:28:56 2020 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 20 10:28:56 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Manuscrit_retrouv=C3=A9_au_Mus=C3=A9e_de_Pouilly_sur_Loire?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A great many thanks to Patrick Olivelle and Matthew Kapstein for their further insights on this manuscript! With very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project Online CV HAL DHARMA Project (ERC synergy grant 2018) TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture Le ven. 23 oct. 2020 ? 15:57, Matthew Kapstein a ?crit : > perhaps Pali? > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2020 8:55 AM > *To:* Manu Francis > *Cc:* Indology ; Catherine BOROT ALCANTARA < > cborot at coeurdeloire.fr> > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Manuscrit retrouv? au Mus?e de Pouilly sur Loire > > So, yes, this is Sinhala script, probably also Sinhala language. The Image > was inverted; I had to download and flip it. Some letters are illegible, > unfortunately. The last lines read something like: > > > (penultimate): ?gr?makotau viharati (*?) v?sayakara?aye > atikr?ntaloka*vo?(?)tugata a*np?*pa > > Not normal Sinhala; quite Sanskrit (e.g. viharati)i, but some like > v?sayakara?aye are clearly Sinhala. > > Best, > > Patrick > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Manu Francis via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > I transfer hereby a query from my colleague Catherine Borot Alcantara > (cc-ed), who found a palm-leaf manuscript in the collections of the Mus?e > Gu?don de Pouilly sur Loire. > It is beyond my field of expertise, but I trust that it is not for many > among you. > My colleague is interested in any information about its script, language, > date, content, etc. > Here are pictures: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cp3imrn20uiqqqt/AAB_r34QIE32-wM53SABNsCMa?dl=0 > > The goal is to "valoriser" (as we say in French) this object. > Any information will be much appreciated and further collaboration on the > description and "valorisation" of the manuscript is open. > > Yours with very best wishes. > > Emmanuel FRANCIS > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Project > Online CV HAL > DHARMA Project > (ERC synergy grant 2018) > TST Project (FRAL 2018, ANR & DFG) > Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << > matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harshadehejia at hotmail.com Mon Oct 26 15:44:18 2020 From: harshadehejia at hotmail.com (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 20 15:44:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mundaka Upanishad Message-ID: Friends: Could anyone please send me the Sanskrit of the following verse from the Mumdaka Upanishad: >From joy springs all creation By it is sustained Towards joy it proceeds And to joy it returns. Kind regards, Harsha Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martingansten at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:05:33 2020 From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 20 17:05:33 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mundaka Upanishad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perhaps you mean Taittir?ya? ?nand?d dhy eva khalv im?ni bh?t?ni j?yante | ?nandena j?t?ni j?vanti | ?nanda? prayanty abhisa?vi?ant?ti | (TU 3.6.1) Martin Gansten Den 2020-10-26 kl. 16:44, skrev Harsha Dehejia via INDOLOGY: > Friends: > > Could anyone please send me the Sanskrit of the following verse from > the Mumdaka Upanishad: > > From joy springs all creation > By it is sustained > Towards joy it proceeds > And to joy it returns. > > Kind regards, > Harsha > Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:32:33 2020 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 20 16:32:33 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mundaka Upanishad Message-ID: <1603729725.S.47742.autosave.drafts.1603729953.8222@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr.Dahejia,I believe it is the following-" Yato ba Imani Bhutani Jayante"    Yen Jatani Jibanti    Yay pryontabhisongbishonti" This is Taitteriya Up.(3.1)        Regards,                     Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Harsha Dehejia via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 21:15:04 GMT+0530 To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>, "indology at liverpool.ac.uk" <indology at liverpool.ac.uk> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mundaka Upanishad Friends: Could anyone please send me the Sanskrit of the following verse from the Mumdaka Upanishad: >From joy springs all creation By it is sustained Towards joy it proceeds And to joy it returns. Kind regards, Harsha Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hegartyjm at googlemail.com Tue Oct 27 18:29:18 2020 From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 18:29:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad News Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, We are very sad to report the death of Will Johnson. Will?s work as a translator of Sanskrit, and as a scholar of Hindu and Jain traditions, speaks for itself. However, his extraordinary personal qualities were known only to those that had the pleasure and privilege of his company. We were fortunate to be in this category. All who knew him valued his innate gentleness, his infectious laugh and his delightful combination of deep generosity to others with a certain arch humour and a wryly detached demeanour. For young academics, as we were when we joined Cardiff University, Will?s attitude was a tonic; he managed to communicate complete commitment to his discipline and his students while seeming to have his foundations somehow elsewhere, and in firmer ground. It is hard not to think that this ground was his artistic nature. Will was a poet first and a scholar second. This did not detract from the quality of his scholarship ? far from it. Yet he seemed at his fullest and most complete when he was creating something other than scholarship (in its most obvious sense). This was true of his poetry (and he published a very powerful volume, My Speaking Tongue, during his retirement in the face of the Motor Neurone Disease that eventually took his life), of the adaptations ? by him or others ? of his translations of Sanskrit plays, or his translations themselves. It was as if impeccable scholarship was, in the face of all this, a happy knack. In closing, his own advice, given in poetry, seems most apposite: ?But if you?ll forgive the indiscretion, take this note: work from the uncut text alone, try not to corpse until your lines run dry, exit with a flourish to the vacant gods, and only then bring up the lamps and board the train for Dublin, Moscow, and beyond this gauze, the endless, moonlit steppe. We include a brief overview of his career drawn from our tribute article to Will on the occasion of his retirement some years ago. Our thoughts and best wishes go to Will?s wonderful family. James Hegarty and Simon Brodbeck Will Johnson: Indologist and Translator Will Johnson was born on 4 November 1951 and grew up in Warwickshire. After a period of working in the theatre he entered the School of African and Asian Studies at the University of Sussex as a mature student, and he received his BA in Religious Studies with first-class honours in 1984. From there he moved to the University of Oxford, receiving his MPhil in Classical Indian Religion in 1987, and his DPhil in 1990 with a thesis entitled ?The Problem of Bondage in Selected Early Jaina Texts?, completed under the supervision of Richard Gombrich. From 1991 to 1992 he was the Michael Coulson Research Fellow at Wolfson College, Oxford, and in 1992 he was appointed as Lecturer in Religious Studies at what was then the University of Wales College, Cardiff. He was promoted to the rank of Senior Lecturer in 1997, and to the rank of Reader in 2009. During his academic career he was active as an external examiner for several different universities, as well as being a member of numerous panels, editorial boards, working groups, and professional bodies, and a consultant for several publishers. Within Cardiff University he was an impeccably amiable colleague who served as a member of the Senate for four years, and as acting Head of School (later Department) on four different occasions. A member of the Centre for the History of Religion in Asia since its launch in 2009, he was particularly active as editor of the centre?s online open-access journal, Asian Literature and Translation. He taught across the spectrum of South Asian religions and belles lettres, including language teaching in Sanskrit and Prakrit, and supervised two MPhils and three PhDs. His research publications include substantial contributions on aspects of Jain religion and philosophy, translations of several Sanskrit classics (with meditations on translation), and reference works (including reviews). These publications influence and facilitate various groups of scholars, and guide students, and entertain and enrich the wider reading public; and they will continue to for many years. Will Johnson: a Bibliography The list presented here is not definitive with regard to published work, and omits a good deal of unpublished work. 1988. ?Therav?da Buddhism in South-East Asia.? In Friedhelm Hardy, ed., The World?s Religions: the Religions of Asia, pp. 194?206. London: Routledge. 1992. Fifteen entries in Ian Harris, Stuart Mews, Paul Morris, and John Shepherd, eds, Contemporary Religions: a World Guide (?Bisapanthis?, p. 104; ?Buddhist Society of India?, pp. 111?12; ?Buddhists in India?, p. 113; ?Chittagong Buddhist Association?, p. 125; ?Digambara Jainas?, pp. 140?41; ?Irani Zoroastrians?, p. 175; ?Jainas?, pp. 184?85; ?Murtipujakas?, p. 240; ?Parsis?, p. 275; ?Srimad Rajchandra?, p. 333; ?Sthanakavasis?, p. 334; ?Svetambara Jainas?, p. 339; ?Taranapanthis?, p. 346; ?Terapanthis?, p. 347; ?Zoroastrians?, p. 385). Longman Current Affairs. Harlow: Longman Group UK Limited. 1994 (trans.). The Bhagavad Gita. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2004, 2008. 1995. ?The Religious Function of Jaina Philosophy: Anek?ntav?da Reconsidered.? Religion 25.1, pp. 41?50. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.1995.0006 1995. Harmless Souls: Karmic Bondage and Religious Change in Early Jainism with Special Reference to Um?sv?ti and Kundakunda. Lala Sundar Lal Jain Research Series. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1997. ?Transcending the World? Freedom (Mok?a) and the Bhagavadg?t?.? In Julius Lipner, ed., The Fruits of Our Desiring: an Enquiry into the Ethics of the Bhagavadg?t? for Our Times. Essays from the Inaugural Conference of the Dharam Hinduja Institute of Indic Research, Cambridge University, pp. 92?104. Calgary: Bayeux Arts. 1998 (trans.). The Sauptikaparvan of the Mah?bh?rata: the Massacre at Night. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1999. ?Kundakunda: Two Standpoints and the Socio-Religious Function of Anek?ntav?da.? In Narendra K. Wagle and Olle Qvarnstr?m, eds, Approaches to Jaina Studies: Philosophy, Logic, Rituals and Symbols, pp. 101?12. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2000. ?Knowledge and Practice in the Jaina Religious Tradition.? In Joseph T. O?Connell, ed., Jain Doctrine and Practice: Academic Perspectives, pp. 18?49. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2001 (trans.). K?lid?sa: the Recognition of ?akuntal?, a Play in Seven Acts. ?akuntal? in the Mah?bh?rata (Mah?bh?rata 1.62?9). Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2008. 2002. Review of Religious Doctrines in the Mah?bh?rata, by Nicholas Sutton. Religion 32.2, pp. 159?60. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.2001.0354 2003. ?The ?Jina Experience?: a Different Approach to Jaina Image Worship.? In Olle Qvarnstr?m, ed., Jainism and Early Buddhism: Essays in Honor of Padmanabh S. Jaini, Part I, pp. 217?30. Fremont, California: Asian Humanities Press. 2005. ?Making Sanskritic or Making Strange? How Should We Translate Classical Hindu Texts?? In Lynne Long, ed., Translation and Religion: Holy Untranslatable?, pp. 65?74. Topics in Translation. Clevedon: Multilingual Matters. 2005 (trans.). Mah?bh?rata Book Three: the Forest. Volume Four. Clay Sanskrit Library. New York: New York University Press / JJC Foundation. Includes ?The Story of R?ma?, ?The Glorification of the Faithful Wife?, ?The Robbing of the Earrings?, and ?About the Drilling Sticks?. 2006. ?Are Jaina Ethics Really Universal?? International Journal of Jaina Studies 2.4, pp. 1?18. 2008. Review of Interpretations of the Bhagavad-G?t? and Images of the Hindu Tradition: the Song of the Lord, by Catherine A. Robinson. Religions of South Asia 2.1, pp. 91?92. 2008. Review of Gender and Narrative in the Mah?bh?rata, ed. Simon Brodbeck and Brian Black. Journal of Hindu Studies 1.1?2, pp. 153?55. 2009. A Dictionary of Hinduism. Oxford Reference. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Pbk edn 2010. 2013. ?Playing Around with ?akuntal?: Translating Sanskrit Drama for Performance.? Asian Literature and Translation 1.2, pp. 1?10. 2014. ?Jainism: From Ontology to Taxonomy in the Jaina Colonisation of the Universe.? In Jessica Frazier, ed., Categorisation in Indian Philosophy: Thinking Inside the Box, pp. 133?46. Dialogues in South Asian Traditions: Religion, Philosophy, Literature and History. Farnham: Ashgate. Unpublished (trans.). The Master Madam. Translation of Bhagavadajjukam. Performed at the Eastmoors Community Centre, Cardiff, on 29 and 30 March 2012. Unpublished (trans.). The Story of Nala. Stage script adapted from Mah?bh?rata 3.50?78. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.raman at utoronto.ca Tue Oct 27 19:04:51 2020 From: s.raman at utoronto.ca (Srilata Raman) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 15:04:51 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9BEAA8C6-CD80-473D-9E60-97A13669814E@utoronto.ca> Dear James and Simon, Thank you for this lovely tribute to Will even as I absorb the shock of the news. Will and I were Alexis Sanderson?s sole M.Phil students in the 80s when I first landed at Oxford. I ended up spending a lot of time with Will in my first year particularly. His obvious qualities of gentleness and kindness shone forth always. And his ways as a generous colleague and gifted scholar. We lost touch except sporadically but the memories - only positive - have never faded. I am grieved to hear this sad news. Warmly yours, Srilata Sent from my iPad > On Oct 27, 2020, at 2:30 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ? > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Treat content with extra caution. > Dear Colleagues, > > We are very sad to report the death of Will Johnson. Will?s work as a translator of Sanskrit, and as a scholar of Hindu and Jain traditions, speaks for itself. However, his extraordinary personal qualities were known only to those that had the pleasure and privilege of his company. We were fortunate to be in this category. All who knew him valued his innate gentleness, his infectious laugh and his delightful combination of deep generosity to others with a certain arch humour and a wryly detached demeanour. For young academics, as we were when we joined Cardiff University, Will?s attitude was a tonic; he managed to communicate complete commitment to his discipline and his students while seeming to have his foundations somehow elsewhere, and in firmer ground. > > It is hard not to think that this ground was his artistic nature. Will was a poet first and a scholar second. This did not detract from the quality of his scholarship ? far from it. Yet he seemed at his fullest and most complete when he was creating something other than scholarship (in its most obvious sense). This was true of his poetry (and he published a very powerful volume, My Speaking Tongue, during his retirement in the face of the Motor Neurone Disease that eventually took his life), of the adaptations ? by him or others ? of his translations of Sanskrit plays, or his translations themselves. It was as if impeccable scholarship was, in the face of all this, a happy knack. > > In closing, his own advice, given in poetry, seems most apposite: > > ?But if you?ll forgive > the indiscretion, take this note: > work from the uncut text alone, try not > to corpse until your lines run dry, exit > with a flourish to the vacant gods, > and only then bring up the lamps and board > the train for Dublin, Moscow, and > beyond this gauze, the endless, moonlit steppe. > > We include a brief overview of his career drawn from our tribute article to Will on the occasion of his retirement some years ago. > > Our thoughts and best wishes go to Will?s wonderful family. > > James Hegarty and Simon Brodbeck > > Will Johnson: Indologist and Translator > > Will Johnson was born on 4 November 1951 and grew up in Warwickshire. After a period of working in the theatre he entered the School of African and Asian Studies at the University of Sussex as a mature student, and he received his BA in Religious Studies with first-class honours in 1984. From there he moved to the University of Oxford, receiving his MPhil in Classical Indian Religion in 1987, and his DPhil in 1990 with a thesis entitled ?The Problem of Bondage in Selected Early Jaina Texts?, completed under the supervision of Richard Gombrich. From 1991 to 1992 he was the Michael Coulson Research Fellow at Wolfson College, Oxford, and in 1992 he was appointed as Lecturer in Religious Studies at what was then the University of Wales College, Cardiff. He was promoted to the rank of Senior Lecturer in 1997, and to the rank of Reader in 2009. > > During his academic career he was active as an external examiner for several different universities, as well as being a member of numerous panels, editorial boards, working groups, and professional bodies, and a consultant for several publishers. Within Cardiff University he was an impeccably amiable colleague who served as a member of the Senate for four years, and as acting Head of School (later Department) on four different occasions. A member of the Centre for the History of Religion in Asia since its launch in 2009, he was particularly active as editor of the centre?s online open-access journal, Asian Literature and Translation. He taught across the spectrum of South Asian religions and belles lettres, including language teaching in Sanskrit and Prakrit, and supervised two MPhils and three PhDs. > > His research publications include substantial contributions on aspects of Jain religion and philosophy, translations of several Sanskrit classics (with meditations on translation), and reference works (including reviews). These publications influence and facilitate various groups of scholars, and guide students, and entertain and enrich the wider reading public; and they will continue to for many years. > > Will Johnson: a Bibliography > > The list presented here is not definitive with regard to published work, and omits a good deal of unpublished work. > > 1988. ?Therav?da Buddhism in South-East Asia.? In Friedhelm Hardy, ed., The World?s Religions: the Religions of Asia, pp. 194?206. London: Routledge. > 1992. Fifteen entries in Ian Harris, Stuart Mews, Paul Morris, and John Shepherd, eds, Contemporary Religions: a World Guide (?Bisapanthis?, p. 104; ?Buddhist Society of India?, pp. 111?12; ?Buddhists in India?, p. 113; ?Chittagong Buddhist Association?, p. 125; ?Digambara Jainas?, pp. 140?41; ?Irani Zoroastrians?, p. 175; ?Jainas?, pp. 184?85; ?Murtipujakas?, p. 240; ?Parsis?, p. 275; ?Srimad Rajchandra?, p. 333; ?Sthanakavasis?, p. 334; ?Svetambara Jainas?, p. 339; ?Taranapanthis?, p. 346; ?Terapanthis?, p. 347; ?Zoroastrians?, p. 385). Longman Current Affairs. Harlow: Longman Group UK Limited. > 1994 (trans.). The Bhagavad Gita. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2004, 2008. > 1995. ?The Religious Function of Jaina Philosophy: Anek?ntav?da Reconsidered.? Religion 25.1, pp. 41?50. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.1995.0006 > 1995. Harmless Souls: Karmic Bondage and Religious Change in Early Jainism with Special Reference to Um?sv?ti and Kundakunda. Lala Sundar Lal Jain Research Series. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. > 1997. ?Transcending the World? Freedom (Mok?a) and the Bhagavadg?t?.? In Julius Lipner, ed., The Fruits of Our Desiring: an Enquiry into the Ethics of the Bhagavadg?t? for Our Times. Essays from the Inaugural Conference of the Dharam Hinduja Institute of Indic Research, Cambridge University, pp. 92?104. Calgary: Bayeux Arts. > 1998 (trans.). The Sauptikaparvan of the Mah?bh?rata: the Massacre at Night. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. > 1999. ?Kundakunda: Two Standpoints and the Socio-Religious Function of Anek?ntav?da.? In Narendra K. Wagle and Olle Qvarnstr?m, eds, Approaches to Jaina Studies: Philosophy, Logic, Rituals and Symbols, pp. 101?12. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. > 2000. ?Knowledge and Practice in the Jaina Religious Tradition.? In Joseph T. O?Connell, ed., Jain Doctrine and Practice: Academic Perspectives, pp. 18?49. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. > 2001 (trans.). K?lid?sa: the Recognition of ?akuntal?, a Play in Seven Acts. ?akuntal? in the Mah?bh?rata (Mah?bh?rata 1.62?9). Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2008. > 2002. Review of Religious Doctrines in the Mah?bh?rata, by Nicholas Sutton. Religion 32.2, pp. 159?60. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.2001.0354 > 2003. ?The ?Jina Experience?: a Different Approach to Jaina Image Worship.? In Olle Qvarnstr?m, ed., Jainism and Early Buddhism: Essays in Honor of Padmanabh S. Jaini, Part I, pp. 217?30. Fremont, California: Asian Humanities Press. > 2005. ?Making Sanskritic or Making Strange? How Should We Translate Classical Hindu Texts?? In Lynne Long, ed., Translation and Religion: Holy Untranslatable?, pp. 65?74. Topics in Translation. Clevedon: Multilingual Matters. > 2005 (trans.). Mah?bh?rata Book Three: the Forest. Volume Four. Clay Sanskrit Library. New York: New York University Press / JJC Foundation. Includes ?The Story of R?ma?, ?The Glorification of the Faithful Wife?, ?The Robbing of the Earrings?, and ?About the Drilling Sticks?. > 2006. ?Are Jaina Ethics Really Universal?? International Journal of Jaina Studies 2.4, pp. 1?18. > 2008. Review of Interpretations of the Bhagavad-G?t? and Images of the Hindu Tradition: the Song of the Lord, by Catherine A. Robinson. Religions of South Asia 2.1, pp. 91?92. > 2008. Review of Gender and Narrative in the Mah?bh?rata, ed. Simon Brodbeck and Brian Black. Journal of Hindu Studies 1.1?2, pp. 153?55. > 2009. A Dictionary of Hinduism. Oxford Reference. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Pbk edn 2010. > 2013. ?Playing Around with ?akuntal?: Translating Sanskrit Drama for Performance.? Asian Literature and Translation 1.2, pp. 1?10. > 2014. ?Jainism: From Ontology to Taxonomy in the Jaina Colonisation of the Universe.? In Jessica Frazier, ed., Categorisation in Indian Philosophy: Thinking Inside the Box, pp. 133?46. Dialogues in South Asian Traditions: Religion, Philosophy, Literature and History. Farnham: Ashgate. > Unpublished (trans.). The Master Madam. Translation of Bhagavadajjukam. Performed at the Eastmoors Community Centre, Cardiff, on 29 and 30 March 2012. > Unpublished (trans.). The Story of Nala. Stage script adapted from Mah?bh?rata 3.50?78. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vbd203 at googlemail.com Tue Oct 27 19:48:19 2020 From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 19:48:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Witzel Message-ID: Dear all (an intentional email to Indology for once), Does anyone happen to have a pdf of: Witzel, M. (1987), 'On the Origin of the Literary Device of the "Frame Story" in Old Indian Literature', in Hinduismus und Buddhismus: Festschrift Ulrich Schneider (Freiburg: Hedwig Falk), 380-414. Would be much appreciated! All the Best, Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Tue Oct 27 19:54:17 2020 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 19:54:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Witzel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <90264922-C2D5-46B2-A5B0-E810037DA4E9@wlu.edu> Dear Victor, It is a poor scan, but it is attached. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020?21 National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020?21 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://ssrn.com/author=930949 https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: victor davella Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 3:49 PM To: INDOLOGY Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Witzel Dear all (an intentional email to Indology for once), Does anyone happen to have a pdf of: Witzel, M. (1987), 'On the Origin of the Literary Device of the "Frame Story" in Old Indian Literature', in Hinduismus und Buddhismus: Festschrift Ulrich Schneider (Freiburg: Hedwig Falk), 380-414. Would be much appreciated! All the Best, Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Witzel1987OntheFrameStory.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1619840 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk Tue Oct 27 20:13:40 2020 From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 20:13:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6E42E2E6-A4FD-448B-80F2-313640B67901@bristol.ac.uk> Dear James and Simon, Sad news indeed. I would also like to thank you for your very nice tribute to Will. I cannot claim to have known him well, but I have very fond memories of my meetings and conversations with him over the years, when we had occasion to meet in Bristol or Cardiff. And last week I was using his translation of the Gita with students and extolling the virtues of his wonderfully helpful Dictionary of Hinduism. He wore his scholarship very modestly. With best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin Professor of Buddhist Studies University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road ? Bristol BS8 1TB ? UK On 27 Oct 2020, at 18:29, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Colleagues, We are very sad to report the death of Will Johnson. Will?s work as a translator of Sanskrit, and as a scholar of Hindu and Jain traditions, speaks for itself. However, his extraordinary personal qualities were known only to those that had the pleasure and privilege of his company. We were fortunate to be in this category. All who knew him valued his innate gentleness, his infectious laugh and his delightful combination of deep generosity to others with a certain arch humour and a wryly detached demeanour. For young academics, as we were when we joined Cardiff University, Will?s attitude was a tonic; he managed to communicate complete commitment to his discipline and his students while seeming to have his foundations somehow elsewhere, and in firmer ground. It is hard not to think that this ground was his artistic nature. Will was a poet first and a scholar second. This did not detract from the quality of his scholarship ? far from it. Yet he seemed at his fullest and most complete when he was creating something other than scholarship (in its most obvious sense). This was true of his poetry (and he published a very powerful volume, My Speaking Tongue, during his retirement in the face of the Motor Neurone Disease that eventually took his life), of the adaptations ? by him or others ? of his translations of Sanskrit plays, or his translations themselves. It was as if impeccable scholarship was, in the face of all this, a happy knack. In closing, his own advice, given in poetry, seems most apposite: ?But if you?ll forgive the indiscretion, take this note: work from the uncut text alone, try not to corpse until your lines run dry, exit with a flourish to the vacant gods, and only then bring up the lamps and board the train for Dublin, Moscow, and beyond this gauze, the endless, moonlit steppe. We include a brief overview of his career drawn from our tribute article to Will on the occasion of his retirement some years ago. Our thoughts and best wishes go to Will?s wonderful family. James Hegarty and Simon Brodbeck Will Johnson: Indologist and Translator Will Johnson was born on 4 November 1951 and grew up in Warwickshire. After a period of working in the theatre he entered the School of African and Asian Studies at the University of Sussex as a mature student, and he received his BA in Religious Studies with first-class honours in 1984. From there he moved to the University of Oxford, receiving his MPhil in Classical Indian Religion in 1987, and his DPhil in 1990 with a thesis entitled ?The Problem of Bondage in Selected Early Jaina Texts?, completed under the supervision of Richard Gombrich. From 1991 to 1992 he was the Michael Coulson Research Fellow at Wolfson College, Oxford, and in 1992 he was appointed as Lecturer in Religious Studies at what was then the University of Wales College, Cardiff. He was promoted to the rank of Senior Lecturer in 1997, and to the rank of Reader in 2009. During his academic career he was active as an external examiner for several different universities, as well as being a member of numerous panels, editorial boards, working groups, and professional bodies, and a consultant for several publishers. Within Cardiff University he was an impeccably amiable colleague who served as a member of the Senate for four years, and as acting Head of School (later Department) on four different occasions. A member of the Centre for the History of Religion in Asia since its launch in 2009, he was particularly active as editor of the centre?s online open-access journal, Asian Literature and Translation. He taught across the spectrum of South Asian religions and belles lettres, including language teaching in Sanskrit and Prakrit, and supervised two MPhils and three PhDs. His research publications include substantial contributions on aspects of Jain religion and philosophy, translations of several Sanskrit classics (with meditations on translation), and reference works (including reviews). These publications influence and facilitate various groups of scholars, and guide students, and entertain and enrich the wider reading public; and they will continue to for many years. Will Johnson: a Bibliography The list presented here is not definitive with regard to published work, and omits a good deal of unpublished work. 1988. ?Therav?da Buddhism in South-East Asia.? In Friedhelm Hardy, ed., The World?s Religions: the Religions of Asia, pp. 194?206. London: Routledge. 1992. Fifteen entries in Ian Harris, Stuart Mews, Paul Morris, and John Shepherd, eds, Contemporary Religions: a World Guide (?Bisapanthis?, p. 104; ?Buddhist Society of India?, pp. 111?12; ?Buddhists in India?, p. 113; ?Chittagong Buddhist Association?, p. 125; ?Digambara Jainas?, pp. 140?41; ?Irani Zoroastrians?, p. 175; ?Jainas?, pp. 184?85; ?Murtipujakas?, p. 240; ?Parsis?, p. 275; ?Srimad Rajchandra?, p. 333; ?Sthanakavasis?, p. 334; ?Svetambara Jainas?, p. 339; ?Taranapanthis?, p. 346; ?Terapanthis?, p. 347; ?Zoroastrians?, p. 385). Longman Current Affairs. Harlow: Longman Group UK Limited. 1994 (trans.). The Bhagavad Gita. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2004, 2008. 1995. ?The Religious Function of Jaina Philosophy: Anek?ntav?da Reconsidered.? Religion 25.1, pp. 41?50. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.1995.0006 1995. Harmless Souls: Karmic Bondage and Religious Change in Early Jainism with Special Reference to Um?sv?ti and Kundakunda. Lala Sundar Lal Jain Research Series. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1997. ?Transcending the World? Freedom (Mok?a) and the Bhagavadg?t?.? In Julius Lipner, ed., The Fruits of Our Desiring: an Enquiry into the Ethics of the Bhagavadg?t? for Our Times. Essays from the Inaugural Conference of the Dharam Hinduja Institute of Indic Research, Cambridge University, pp. 92?104. Calgary: Bayeux Arts. 1998 (trans.). The Sauptikaparvan of the Mah?bh?rata: the Massacre at Night. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1999. ?Kundakunda: Two Standpoints and the Socio-Religious Function of Anek?ntav?da.? In Narendra K. Wagle and Olle Qvarnstr?m, eds, Approaches to Jaina Studies: Philosophy, Logic, Rituals and Symbols, pp. 101?12. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2000. ?Knowledge and Practice in the Jaina Religious Tradition.? In Joseph T. O?Connell, ed., Jain Doctrine and Practice: Academic Perspectives, pp. 18?49. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2001 (trans.). K?lid?sa: the Recognition of ?akuntal?, a Play in Seven Acts. ?akuntal? in the Mah?bh?rata (Mah?bh?rata 1.62?9). Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2008. 2002. Review of Religious Doctrines in the Mah?bh?rata, by Nicholas Sutton. Religion 32.2, pp. 159?60. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.2001.0354 2003. ?The ?Jina Experience?: a Different Approach to Jaina Image Worship.? In Olle Qvarnstr?m, ed., Jainism and Early Buddhism: Essays in Honor of Padmanabh S. Jaini, Part I, pp. 217?30. Fremont, California: Asian Humanities Press. 2005. ?Making Sanskritic or Making Strange? How Should We Translate Classical Hindu Texts?? In Lynne Long, ed., Translation and Religion: Holy Untranslatable?, pp. 65?74. Topics in Translation. Clevedon: Multilingual Matters. 2005 (trans.). Mah?bh?rata Book Three: the Forest. Volume Four. Clay Sanskrit Library. New York: New York University Press / JJC Foundation. Includes ?The Story of R?ma?, ?The Glorification of the Faithful Wife?, ?The Robbing of the Earrings?, and ?About the Drilling Sticks?. 2006. ?Are Jaina Ethics Really Universal?? International Journal of Jaina Studies 2.4, pp. 1?18. 2008. Review of Interpretations of the Bhagavad-G?t? and Images of the Hindu Tradition: the Song of the Lord, by Catherine A. Robinson. Religions of South Asia 2.1, pp. 91?92. 2008. Review of Gender and Narrative in the Mah?bh?rata, ed. Simon Brodbeck and Brian Black. Journal of Hindu Studies 1.1?2, pp. 153?55. 2009. A Dictionary of Hinduism. Oxford Reference. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Pbk edn 2010. 2013. ?Playing Around with ?akuntal?: Translating Sanskrit Drama for Performance.? Asian Literature and Translation 1.2, pp. 1?10. 2014. ?Jainism: From Ontology to Taxonomy in the Jaina Colonisation of the Universe.? In Jessica Frazier, ed., Categorisation in Indian Philosophy: Thinking Inside the Box, pp. 133?46. Dialogues in South Asian Traditions: Religion, Philosophy, Literature and History. Farnham: Ashgate. Unpublished (trans.). The Master Madam. Translation of Bhagavadajjukam. Performed at the Eastmoors Community Centre, Cardiff, on 29 and 30 March 2012. Unpublished (trans.). The Story of Nala. Stage script adapted from Mah?bh?rata 3.50?78. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlighthiser at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 20:24:17 2020 From: tlighthiser at gmail.com (Timothy P. Lighthiser) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 14:24:17 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Lienhard's Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical Message-ID: Hi! Does anyone have a copy of this article that they would be willing and able to share? Thanks in advance!! t >From SARDS 3 Author : Lienhard, Siegfried Title : Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical Article collection : Translating, Translations, Translators from India to the West, ed. by Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge Year : 1996 Page : 53-58 Keyword : literature; Sanskrit; k?vya; Amaru; 'Amaru?ataka'; poetics; ?a?kar?c?rya; ?a?kara; ?a?kara; Rudra?a; Mamma?a Quote : Lienhard, Siegfried: Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical, in: Translating, Translations, Translators from India to the West, ed. by Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge, 1996, S. 53-58. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 21:44:50 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 20 15:44:50 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Lienhard's Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You could request a copy from the author, here , if Enrica has a PDF. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 14:25, Timothy P. Lighthiser via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Hi! > > Does anyone have a copy of this article that they would be willing and > able to share? > > Thanks in advance!! > > t > > From SARDS 3 > Author : Lienhard, Siegfried > > Title : Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical > Article collection : Translating, Translations, Translators from India to > the West, ed. by Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge > Year : 1996 > Page : 53-58 > Keyword : literature; Sanskrit; k?vya; Amaru; 'Amaru?ataka'; poetics; > ?a?kar?c?rya; ?a?kara; ?a?kara; Rudra?a; Mamma?a > Quote : Lienhard, Siegfried: Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical, in: > Translating, Translations, Translators from India to the West, ed. by > Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge, 1996, S. 53-58. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 00:56:13 2020 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 09:56:13 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Lienhard's Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, I am sharing a pdf of a German article that appeared under the same title (Amaru -- erotisch und philosophierend) in the Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens, although I don't know whether the 1996 article is an exact translation of the earlier German one. Hope it helps. All the best, Gaia On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 5:25 AM Timothy P. Lighthiser via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Hi! > > Does anyone have a copy of this article that they would be willing and > able to share? > > Thanks in advance!! > > t > > From SARDS 3 > Author : Lienhard, Siegfried > > Title : Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical > Article collection : Translating, Translations, Translators from India to > the West, ed. by Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge > Year : 1996 > Page : 53-58 > Keyword : literature; Sanskrit; k?vya; Amaru; 'Amaru?ataka'; poetics; > ?a?kar?c?rya; ?a?kara; ?a?kara; Rudra?a; Mamma?a > Quote : Lienhard, Siegfried: Amaru, Erotic and Philosophical, in: > Translating, Translations, Translators from India to the West, ed. by > Enrica Garzilli. Cambridge, 1996, S. 53-58. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lienhard_1994_amaru_erotisch_und_philosophierend.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1608428 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au Wed Oct 28 07:03:07 2020 From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 07:03:07 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi James and Simon, Sorry to hear of Will's death. The last time I saw him was in a gallery in Vienna about eight years ago. Terrific bloke. Cheers, Greg ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hegarty via INDOLOGY Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:29 AM To: indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad News Dear Colleagues, We are very sad to report the death of Will Johnson. Will?s work as a translator of Sanskrit, and as a scholar of Hindu and Jain traditions, speaks for itself. However, his extraordinary personal qualities were known only to those that had the pleasure and privilege of his company. We were fortunate to be in this category. All who knew him valued his innate gentleness, his infectious laugh and his delightful combination of deep generosity to others with a certain arch humour and a wryly detached demeanour. For young academics, as we were when we joined Cardiff University, Will?s attitude was a tonic; he managed to communicate complete commitment to his discipline and his students while seeming to have his foundations somehow elsewhere, and in firmer ground. It is hard not to think that this ground was his artistic nature. Will was a poet first and a scholar second. This did not detract from the quality of his scholarship ? far from it. Yet he seemed at his fullest and most complete when he was creating something other than scholarship (in its most obvious sense). This was true of his poetry (and he published a very powerful volume, My Speaking Tongue, during his retirement in the face of the Motor Neurone Disease that eventually took his life), of the adaptations ? by him or others ? of his translations of Sanskrit plays, or his translations themselves. It was as if impeccable scholarship was, in the face of all this, a happy knack. In closing, his own advice, given in poetry, seems most apposite: ?But if you?ll forgive the indiscretion, take this note: work from the uncut text alone, try not to corpse until your lines run dry, exit with a flourish to the vacant gods, and only then bring up the lamps and board the train for Dublin, Moscow, and beyond this gauze, the endless, moonlit steppe. We include a brief overview of his career drawn from our tribute article to Will on the occasion of his retirement some years ago. Our thoughts and best wishes go to Will?s wonderful family. James Hegarty and Simon Brodbeck Will Johnson: Indologist and Translator Will Johnson was born on 4 November 1951 and grew up in Warwickshire. After a period of working in the theatre he entered the School of African and Asian Studies at the University of Sussex as a mature student, and he received his BA in Religious Studies with first-class honours in 1984. From there he moved to the University of Oxford, receiving his MPhil in Classical Indian Religion in 1987, and his DPhil in 1990 with a thesis entitled ?The Problem of Bondage in Selected Early Jaina Texts?, completed under the supervision of Richard Gombrich. From 1991 to 1992 he was the Michael Coulson Research Fellow at Wolfson College, Oxford, and in 1992 he was appointed as Lecturer in Religious Studies at what was then the University of Wales College, Cardiff. He was promoted to the rank of Senior Lecturer in 1997, and to the rank of Reader in 2009. During his academic career he was active as an external examiner for several different universities, as well as being a member of numerous panels, editorial boards, working groups, and professional bodies, and a consultant for several publishers. Within Cardiff University he was an impeccably amiable colleague who served as a member of the Senate for four years, and as acting Head of School (later Department) on four different occasions. A member of the Centre for the History of Religion in Asia since its launch in 2009, he was particularly active as editor of the centre?s online open-access journal, Asian Literature and Translation. He taught across the spectrum of South Asian religions and belles lettres, including language teaching in Sanskrit and Prakrit, and supervised two MPhils and three PhDs. His research publications include substantial contributions on aspects of Jain religion and philosophy, translations of several Sanskrit classics (with meditations on translation), and reference works (including reviews). These publications influence and facilitate various groups of scholars, and guide students, and entertain and enrich the wider reading public; and they will continue to for many years. Will Johnson: a Bibliography The list presented here is not definitive with regard to published work, and omits a good deal of unpublished work. 1988. ?Therav?da Buddhism in South-East Asia.? In Friedhelm Hardy, ed., The World?s Religions: the Religions of Asia, pp. 194?206. London: Routledge. 1992. Fifteen entries in Ian Harris, Stuart Mews, Paul Morris, and John Shepherd, eds, Contemporary Religions: a World Guide (?Bisapanthis?, p. 104; ?Buddhist Society of India?, pp. 111?12; ?Buddhists in India?, p. 113; ?Chittagong Buddhist Association?, p. 125; ?Digambara Jainas?, pp. 140?41; ?Irani Zoroastrians?, p. 175; ?Jainas?, pp. 184?85; ?Murtipujakas?, p. 240; ?Parsis?, p. 275; ?Srimad Rajchandra?, p. 333; ?Sthanakavasis?, p. 334; ?Svetambara Jainas?, p. 339; ?Taranapanthis?, p. 346; ?Terapanthis?, p. 347; ?Zoroastrians?, p. 385). Longman Current Affairs. Harlow: Longman Group UK Limited. 1994 (trans.). The Bhagavad Gita. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2004, 2008. 1995. ?The Religious Function of Jaina Philosophy: Anek?ntav?da Reconsidered.? Religion 25.1, pp. 41?50. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.1995.0006 1995. Harmless Souls: Karmic Bondage and Religious Change in Early Jainism with Special Reference to Um?sv?ti and Kundakunda. Lala Sundar Lal Jain Research Series. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1997. ?Transcending the World? Freedom (Mok?a) and the Bhagavadg?t?.? In Julius Lipner, ed., The Fruits of Our Desiring: an Enquiry into the Ethics of the Bhagavadg?t? for Our Times. Essays from the Inaugural Conference of the Dharam Hinduja Institute of Indic Research, Cambridge University, pp. 92?104. Calgary: Bayeux Arts. 1998 (trans.). The Sauptikaparvan of the Mah?bh?rata: the Massacre at Night. Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1999. ?Kundakunda: Two Standpoints and the Socio-Religious Function of Anek?ntav?da.? In Narendra K. Wagle and Olle Qvarnstr?m, eds, Approaches to Jaina Studies: Philosophy, Logic, Rituals and Symbols, pp. 101?12. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2000. ?Knowledge and Practice in the Jaina Religious Tradition.? In Joseph T. O?Connell, ed., Jain Doctrine and Practice: Academic Perspectives, pp. 18?49. South Asian Studies Papers. Toronto: University of Toronto, Centre for South Asian Studies. 2001 (trans.). K?lid?sa: the Recognition of ?akuntal?, a Play in Seven Acts. ?akuntal? in the Mah?bh?rata (Mah?bh?rata 1.62?9). Oxford World?s Classics. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Reprinted 2008. 2002. Review of Religious Doctrines in the Mah?bh?rata, by Nicholas Sutton. Religion 32.2, pp. 159?60. https://doi.org/10.1006/reli.2001.0354 2003. ?The ?Jina Experience?: a Different Approach to Jaina Image Worship.? In Olle Qvarnstr?m, ed., Jainism and Early Buddhism: Essays in Honor of Padmanabh S. Jaini, Part I, pp. 217?30. Fremont, California: Asian Humanities Press. 2005. ?Making Sanskritic or Making Strange? How Should We Translate Classical Hindu Texts?? In Lynne Long, ed., Translation and Religion: Holy Untranslatable?, pp. 65?74. Topics in Translation. Clevedon: Multilingual Matters. 2005 (trans.). Mah?bh?rata Book Three: the Forest. Volume Four. Clay Sanskrit Library. New York: New York University Press / JJC Foundation. Includes ?The Story of R?ma?, ?The Glorification of the Faithful Wife?, ?The Robbing of the Earrings?, and ?About the Drilling Sticks?. 2006. ?Are Jaina Ethics Really Universal?? International Journal of Jaina Studies 2.4, pp. 1?18. 2008. Review of Interpretations of the Bhagavad-G?t? and Images of the Hindu Tradition: the Song of the Lord, by Catherine A. Robinson. Religions of South Asia 2.1, pp. 91?92. 2008. Review of Gender and Narrative in the Mah?bh?rata, ed. Simon Brodbeck and Brian Black. Journal of Hindu Studies 1.1?2, pp. 153?55. 2009. A Dictionary of Hinduism. Oxford Reference. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Pbk edn 2010. 2013. ?Playing Around with ?akuntal?: Translating Sanskrit Drama for Performance.? Asian Literature and Translation 1.2, pp. 1?10. 2014. ?Jainism: From Ontology to Taxonomy in the Jaina Colonisation of the Universe.? In Jessica Frazier, ed., Categorisation in Indian Philosophy: Thinking Inside the Box, pp. 133?46. Dialogues in South Asian Traditions: Religion, Philosophy, Literature and History. Farnham: Ashgate. Unpublished (trans.). The Master Madam. Translation of Bhagavadajjukam. Performed at the Eastmoors Community Centre, Cardiff, on 29 and 30 March 2012. Unpublished (trans.). The Story of Nala. Stage script adapted from Mah?bh?rata 3.50?78. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Wed Oct 28 15:01:05 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 15:01:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Filial Piety Message-ID: <4EF45D60-5853-4E78-8B30-CB204B0E0CC8@austin.utexas.edu> A student who is writing a paper on filial piety in India asked me for secondary sources. I could not think of any that addressed this issue directly, and thought of asking the Indology community for help. With thanks and best wishes, Patrick From nmcgover at fandm.edu Wed Oct 28 15:04:10 2020 From: nmcgover at fandm.edu (Nathan McGovern) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 10:04:10 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Filial Piety In-Reply-To: <4EF45D60-5853-4E78-8B30-CB204B0E0CC8@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Would /Feeding the Dead /by Sayers not be relevant? On 10/28/2020 10:01 AM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY wrote: > A student who is writing a paper on filial piety in India asked me for secondary sources. I could not think of any that addressed this issue directly, and thought of asking the Indology community for help. With thanks and best wishes, > > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Wed Oct 28 15:07:55 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 15:07:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Filial Piety In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <37CE0E67-A402-4734-AA96-3EA570ADCB24@austin.utexas.edu> Yes, but it deals only with piety after the death of the parents. But it will be a resource. On Oct 28, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Nathan McGovern via INDOLOGY > wrote: Would Feeding the Dead by Sayers not be relevant? On 10/28/2020 10:01 AM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY wrote: A student who is writing a paper on filial piety in India asked me for secondary sources. I could not think of any that addressed this issue directly, and thought of asking the Indology community for help. With thanks and best wishes, Patrick _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattdmilligan at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 17:51:21 2020 From: mattdmilligan at gmail.com (Matthew Milligan) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 12:51:21 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Filial Piety In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3be7ddf7-fd45-4ab6-8724-e64d3ab63861@Spark> Hi Patrick, There?s a Schopen article which I believe is also in the yellow ?Bones, Stones? book: Schopen, Gregory. "Filial piety and the monk in the practice of Indian Buddhism: A question of ?Sinicization' viewed from the other side."?T'oung Pao?70, no. 1 (1984): 110-126. This deals with a few inscriptions with references to non-Indic material. There is also Strong, John S. 1983. ?Filial Piety and Buddhism: The Indian Antecedents to a ?Chinese? Problem.? In?Traditions in Contact and Change, ed. Peter Slater and Donald Wiebe, 171?86. Waterloo, Canada: Wilfried Laurier University Press. And the issue is discussed in several places in Reiko Ohnuma?s book, ?Ties that Bind: Maternal Imagery and Discourse in Indian Buddhism." Hope this helps! M Matthew D. Milligan, PhD Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Religion Trinity University American Oriental Society Twitter Manager: @AmOrientalSoc Personal Twitter: @MattDMilligan Personal Instagram: @MilliganMattD Editor, Oxford Bibliographies in Buddhism: ?Buddhism and Economics" ?Be a thinker, not a stinker.? - Apollo Creed On Oct 28, 2020, 12:02 PM -0500, indology at list.indology.info, wrote: > > Re: Filial Piety -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 21:51:26 2020 From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 17:51:26 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Preface to R. K. Kamat's Guru-caritra Message-ID: Dear list members, Does anyone have access to R.K. Kamat's Guru-caritra that includes his preface. I've looked at some reprints of this edition in different libraries but none contained the preface. I know the preface exists and that it describes the manuscripts he used, because Antonio Rigopoulos in his article "The Guru-Gita or Song of the Master" mentions that it describes the manuscripts Kamat used. Why I'm asking. I have a pdf of the Guru-gita from this edition. It has footnotes with variations identified by abreviation (for example m., dhu., pu. ) and I'd like to verify that these are manuscript variations and what Kamat has to say about the manuscripts. I don't know if the preface is in English or Marathi. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Oct 29 04:36:18 2020 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 20 21:36:18 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... Message-ID: <74474619-8DCF-4C33-9152-589A79B4D37F@earthlink.net> Dear List Members, I need your help in understanding something from Manusmriti. Is there any passage/rule in this text that states that ?all women are prostitutes?? Or anything close to such thought? In Tamilnadu, there is a severe extremist movement wanting to burn Manusmriti. As the next election is approaching, the political scene is getting ugly as usual. One party?s propaganda includes that Manusmriti should be removed/burned down since it looks at women as prostitutes. I was wondering if any of you would kindly check Manusmriti and let me know if he really declared that all women are prostitutes. I would very much appreciate your help. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 29 14:32:15 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 14:32:15 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... In-Reply-To: <74474619-8DCF-4C33-9152-589A79B4D37F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <84F44BC4-D6E3-45E8-9A5F-F9BB49127C81@austin.utexas.edu> There is no statement of Manu that states all women are prostitutes. There are statements which emphasizes the need for women to be under male control/protection, the need to guard them from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure (sa?ga). See Manu 5.148ff, and 9.1ff. Patrick > On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:36 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > I need your help in understanding something from Manusmriti. > > Is there any passage/rule in this text that states that ?all women are prostitutes?? Or anything close to such thought? > > In Tamilnadu, there is a severe extremist movement wanting to burn Manusmriti. As the next election is approaching, the political scene is getting ugly as usual. One party?s propaganda includes that Manusmriti should be removed/burned down since it looks at women as prostitutes. > > I was wondering if any of you would kindly check Manusmriti and let me know if he really declared that all women are prostitutes. > > I would very much appreciate your help. > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 29 14:37:02 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 14:37:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... In-Reply-To: <74474619-8DCF-4C33-9152-589A79B4D37F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <33DE3179-059A-4C37-9DB3-2F37D71AB484@austin.utexas.edu> And on burning the Manusm?ti, it is a long tradition. Ambedkar convened a conference of Dalits in Yeola in 1935, where a resolution was passed under the title ?To the Untouchable Community: A New Message of a New Manu.? Within a month of that a group gathered in Nasik to burn a copy of the Manusm?ti; and copies of Manu were burnt in the precincts of the Rajasthan High Court on March 25, 2000. Manu does elicit strong emotions!! Patrick > On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:36 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > I need your help in understanding something from Manusmriti. > > Is there any passage/rule in this text that states that ?all women are prostitutes?? Or anything close to such thought? > > In Tamilnadu, there is a severe extremist movement wanting to burn Manusmriti. As the next election is approaching, the political scene is getting ugly as usual. One party?s propaganda includes that Manusmriti should be removed/burned down since it looks at women as prostitutes. > > I was wondering if any of you would kindly check Manusmriti and let me know if he really declared that all women are prostitutes. > > I would very much appreciate your help. > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << From hhhock at illinois.edu Thu Oct 29 16:10:44 2020 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 16:10:44 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... In-Reply-To: <74474619-8DCF-4C33-9152-589A79B4D37F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3666362D-19A7-4C69-B5FF-76F497934C29@illinois.edu> Dear Colleague and All, Check Manu 9.14-17; that?s where you find language (pau??caly?(t) etc.) that could be taken to suggest that all women are ?prostitutes?, but the purpose of these verses seems simply to be to cast doubts on the trustworthiness of women and thereby to justify the need to keep them under constant control. Best wishes, HHH On 28 Oct2020, at 23:36, rajam via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear List Members, I need your help in understanding something from Manusmriti. Is there any passage/rule in this text that states that ?all women are prostitutes?? Or anything close to such thought? In Tamilnadu, there is a severe extremist movement wanting to burn Manusmriti. As the next election is approaching, the political scene is getting ugly as usual. One party?s propaganda includes that Manusmriti should be removed/burned down since it looks at women as prostitutes. I was wondering if any of you would kindly check Manusmriti and let me know if he really declared that all women are prostitutes. I would very much appreciate your help. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 29 16:13:29 2020 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 16:13:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Manusmriti ... In-Reply-To: <84F44BC4-D6E3-45E8-9A5F-F9BB49127C81@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Sorry, this was not sent to the list. Here it is. Begin forwarded message: From: Patrick Olivelle > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... Date: October 29, 2020 at 9:35:11 AM CDT To: rajam > Cc: Indology > There is no statement of Manu that states all women are prostitutes. There are statements which emphasizes the need for women to be under male control/protection, the need to guard them from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure (sa?ga). See Manu 5.148ff, and 9.1ff. Patrick On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:36 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear List Members, I need your help in understanding something from Manusmriti. Is there any passage/rule in this text that states that ?all women are prostitutes?? Or anything close to such thought? In Tamilnadu, there is a severe extremist movement wanting to burn Manusmriti. As the next election is approaching, the political scene is getting ugly as usual. One party?s propaganda includes that Manusmriti should be removed/burned down since it looks at women as prostitutes. I was wondering if any of you would kindly check Manusmriti and let me know if he really declared that all women are prostitutes. I would very much appreciate your help. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diegoloukota at ucla.edu Thu Oct 29 17:21:37 2020 From: diegoloukota at ucla.edu (DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 12:21:37 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) Message-ID: Dear all, With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some *?loka*s of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": *nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti?sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate * In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine ): "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, *pau??calya*>*pu??-cal?* is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. *namaskaromi*, Diego -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Thu Oct 29 17:31:04 2020 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 12:31:04 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <804E92F4-022E-4B43-8915-46C915A05EFB@aol.com> V. S. Apte?s dictionary (https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app_test/apte_query.py?page=1049) has the following entries, the last one citing Manu 9.15. ????????? pau??cal?ya a. [-?? f.) Relating to harlots. ?????????? pau??caleya? The son of a harlot. ??????????? pau??calyam Harlotry, female incontinence; ??????????????- ????????? ????????????? ???????? ? ??????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????? ? Ms.9.15. Regards, Palaniappan From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Indology List Reply-To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 12:22 PM To: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) Dear all, With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. namaskaromi, Diego _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 17:34:37 2020 From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 13:34:37 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry I've been slow with this cheat sheet. Most diacritics are on it for easy typing rather than using the favorites file. When you open it you will need to select Times New Roman font (available in the Catalina system). All the best John On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 9:46 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Many thanks Paul, Shayne, James, and others who will no doubt soon write > as well - > > your advice is precisely what I was looking for. All's well. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of Paul > Hacket via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2020 8:42 AM > *To:* Indology > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] diacritical marks on Mac > > Hi Matthew, > > The ?Favorites? tab in keyboard preferences still exists, but it is not > displayed until you add characters to it. > In the ?Show Character Viewer? option under the keyboard menu (now > called ?Show Emoji & Symbols?), select a character. In the right side > details window you will see a button ?Add to Favorites.? When you click > this, it will add the character to your favorites list and the tab > selection will reappear. > > Best, > > Paul > > > On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:30 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear friends, > > I recently bought a new MacBook Pro with the OS Catalina. > My old MacBook had an earlier OS, in which it was quite easy to locate > characters with diacritical marks not among the standard Mac accents, which > would then be stored in a tab called 'favorites' with keyboard preferences. > In Catalina, that is gone, and I do not see any easy way to locate and > insert the diacritical marks. I would be grateful for some pointers. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ExtendedkeyboardforMac.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Oct 29 18:53:24 2020 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 11:53:24 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6606C968-E80D-49FD-B88F-10A220D5F681@earthlink.net> Thank you very much for the explanation! Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? Thanks again, V.S. Rajam > On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > Dear all, > > With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": > > nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? > sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate > > pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? > rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate > > In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): > > "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" > > I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. > > On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. > > namaskaromi, > > Diego > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdj at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 29 19:27:08 2020 From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 19:27:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: <6606C968-E80D-49FD-B88F-10A220D5F681@earthlink.net> Message-ID: The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. Best, Don Don Davis Dept. of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin From: INDOLOGY on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info" Reply-To: rajam Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) Thank you very much for the explanation! Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? Thanks again, V.S. Rajam On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear all, With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. namaskaromi, Diego _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diegoloukota at ucla.edu Thu Oct 29 19:42:53 2020 From: diegoloukota at ucla.edu (DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 14:42:53 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: <6606C968-E80D-49FD-B88F-10A220D5F681@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Rajam, The ninth *adhy?ya* begins with injunctions meant for *puru?asya striy?? ca ... dharme vartmani ti??hato?* "the man and woman (or "husband and wife") who stand in the path of the law," and from 9.1 up to 9.21 the subject of the verbs in the plural third person seems to be the not better specified *striya?* "women" in pada 9.1a. I hope this helps! *namaskaromi*, Diego On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 1:53 PM rajam wrote: > Thank you very much for the explanation! > > Could you please also verify if these specific *?loka*s refer to ?all > women? in general or only certain women? > > Thanks again, > V.S. Rajam > > > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > > Dear all, > > With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect > and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that > some *?loka*s of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond > a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to > sensual pleasure": > > > > > > *nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti?sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n > ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? > rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate * > > In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis > mine): > > "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is > good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's > a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness > that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS > WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" > > I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely > adequate, *pau??calya*>*pu??-cal?* is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically > and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" > or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit > word. > > On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much > exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, > which I support. > > *namaskaromi*, > > Diego > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Oct 29 19:54:45 2020 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 12:54:45 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad scene. Thanks and Regards, V.S. Rajam > On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY wrote: > > The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. > > The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. > > Best, Don > > Don Davis > Dept. of Asian Studies > University of Texas at Austin > > > > > From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info " > > Reply-To: rajam > > Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM > To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE > > Cc: "indology at list.indology.info " > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) > > Thank you very much for the explanation! > > Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? > > Thanks again, > V.S. Rajam > > > > >> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY > wrote: >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": >> >> nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? >> sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate >> >> pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? >> rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate >> >> In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): >> >> "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" >> >> I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. >> >> On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. >> >> namaskaromi, >> >> Diego >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 29 21:58:24 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 14:58:24 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form *askr?ta* showing the trace of the root *skr?*. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as *akr?ta*, indicating that the root *skr? *as an independent root is no longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like *sa?skaroti* where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this earlier root *skr?*. Please suggest references that I can look up. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Thu Oct 29 22:16:48 2020 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 22:16:48 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7C74B0E4-D869-45D7-8EAB-DBBF6BCA655F@illinois.edu> Dear Madhav and All, There is also pari-?k?ta-. Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general phenomenon in Indo-European, called s-mobile (the varying presence or absence of a root-initial s). The Wikipedia entry "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more speculative explanation would be that in structures like namask? the s was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier ss (similar to asi ?you are? for expected as-si, not also the Vedic external sandhi for -s#st etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is an alternative root form sk?-.) All the best, Hans On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear colleagues, In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form askr?ta showing the trace of the root skr?. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as akr?ta, indicating that the root skr? as an independent root is no longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like sa?skaroti where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this earlier root skr?. Please suggest references that I can look up. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Thu Oct 29 22:23:40 2020 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 22:23:40 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Addition: A Sanskrit example of s-mobile would be the coexistence of a root tan- and a root stan-, both meaning ?thunder? Dear Madhav and All, There is also pari-?k?ta-. Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general phenomenon in Indo-European, called s-mobile (the varying presence or absence of a root-initial s). The Wikipedia entry "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more speculative explanation would be that in structures like namask? the s was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier ss (similar to asi ?you are? for expected as-si, not also the Vedic external sandhi for -s#st etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is an alternative root form sk?-.) All the best, Hans On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear colleagues, In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form askr?ta showing the trace of the root skr?. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as akr?ta, indicating that the root skr? as an independent root is no longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like sa?skaroti where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this earlier root skr?. Please suggest references that I can look up. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 29 22:53:29 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 20 15:53:29 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Hans, The fact that R?gveda 10.127.3 has *askr?ta* but the Padap??ha has *akr?ta*, probably explains why P??ini did not include a root *skr?*, but only proposed a contextual insertion or augmentation with "*s"*. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Addition: A Sanskrit example of *s-*mobile would be the coexistence of a > root *tan-* and a root *stan-, *both meaning ?thunder? > > > Dear Madhav and All, > > There is also *pari-?k?ta-**. *Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find > any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general > phenomenon in Indo-European, called *s*-mobile (the varying presence or > absence of a root-initial * s*). The Wikipedia entry " > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful > summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more > speculative explanation would be that in structures like *namask?* the *s* was > reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier *ss* (similar to *asi* ?you > are? for expected * as-si*, not also the Vedic external sandhi for *-s#st* etc.) > and that this led to the notion that there is an alternative root form > *sk?-*.) > > All the best, > > Hans > > > On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form *askr?ta* showing the trace of > the root *skr?*. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as * akr?ta*, > indicating that the root *skr? *as an independent root is no longer > recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like *sa?skaroti* where > P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this > earlier root *skr?*. Please suggest references that I can look up. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karl-stephan.bouthillette.1 at ulaval.ca Fri Oct 30 11:52:20 2020 From: karl-stephan.bouthillette.1 at ulaval.ca (Karl-Stephan Bouthillette) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 11:52:20 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Histories of Philosophy in a Global Perspective of the University of Hildesheim In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1604058735170.62985@ulaval.ca> Dear colleagues, I hope this message finds you in good health. I am reaching out to you both to inform you about a new research platform (in the making) which you might eventually find most useful, and to solicitate your help in its actual production. I am talking about the ambitious Koselleck-Projekt - Geschichten der Philosophie in globaler Perspektive (Histories of Philosophy in a Global Perspective) launched at the University of Hildesheim, in Germany. You may find the Website here: https://www.uni-hildesheim.de/en/histories-of-philosophy/ For your information, Reinhart Koselleck Projects are meant to enable outstanding researchers with a proven scientific track record to pursue exceptionally innovative, higher-risk projects. With its ambitious multi-lingual, multi-cultural, and pluri-disciplinary approach, the Histories of Philosophy in a Global Perspective of the University of Hildesheim, guided by Professor Dr. phil. habil. Rolf Elberfeld, has secured the first grant ever attributed by the DFG/Koselleck to a philosophical project. It is thus an honor for me to be an associate member of the team and to contribute to its online-platform. My contribution, at this initial stage, consists in building up a list of Indian doxographical materials, to be included within a broad repertoire of similar materials in different languages (Ancient Greek, Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Latin, Korean, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Swedish, Spanish, Tibetan, Turkish). Initially, the list only aims to be descriptive, but we hope to eventually be able to include the given texts directly on the platform, which is free and available to all, making it an invaluable tool for research. As you can already witness on the Website, the list has already begun for several languages and includes quantity of materials. However, the five years project is only one year old and much remains to be done. For this reason, I am reaching out to you to request your inputs. With your profound knowledge of the field and its existing literature, concerning untranslated manuscripts or edited sources, your help would be much useful. I thus invite you to contact me off-list for any suggestion of possible ?doxographical? titles to be included in the list. (you may use the present email address: karl-stephan.bouthillette.1 at ulaval.ca). As a reminder, by ?doxography? I mean: 1. either a whole text, or a part of a text: 2. where competing views of philosophers or schools are presented following a division of topics organized into sets and sub-sets with specific differences to which a name-label is attached in most cases; 3. where the original argumentative support of such views may or may not be given; 4. where the author?s own view and arguments may or may not be criticized; 5. where the content consists either in literal or in non-literal renderings of sources; and 6. where the overall concern is primarily systematic, dialectic, with little or no historiographical character. At least, this is the definition I presented in my last book "Dialogue and Doxography in Indian Philosophy: Points of View in Buddhist, Jaina, and Advaita Ved?nta Traditions" (Routledge, 2020). It is broad and precise enough to orient the composition of the present list. If you were interested in feeding me with your knowledge, I would be most obliged if you could indicate within your messages some of the following information concerning the texts: 1. Title (This is a bare minimum) 2. Traditional belonging (for ex. Madhyamaka, Jaina, Advaita?) 3. Approximate date 4. Brief description of contents (the list of schools presented) 5. Edited or not. (if you know the publication source, kindly mention it) I hope that you may find as much value in this project as I do. In time, it will prove to be an invaluable research tool for anyone interested in Indian philosophy, accessible to all within an easily navigable online platform. Your help in this undertaking will be of benefits to all. On this, I humbly thank you in advance for your time and consideration. Cordialement, Dr. Karl-St?phan Bouthillette FWO Postdoctoral Researcher at Ghent University Associate member of the Koselleck-Project - Histories of Philosophy in a Global Perspective From dcgunkel at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 11:59:53 2020 From: dcgunkel at gmail.com (Dieter Gunkel) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 07:59:53 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Madhav, Further evidence for *sk?-* with initial s comes from Rigvedic sandhi, where word-final *-s* is retained before forms derived from the root *k?-*. Where forms of *k?-* are involved, -*s* is retained even in contexts where we do not find "close sandhi" in the Rigveda, e.g. between a direct object and a verb: *kani??h? ?ha cat?ras kar?ti* "The youngest said, 'I'll make four.'" (4.33.5c). The same sandhi behavior holds for the bardic family name *k??va-*, where the *s* is preserved in the Kanvid name *pr?ska?va-*. Likewise in *kav?-*, where Germanic cognates such as present-day German *schauen* 'to look' exhibit a root-initial *s*. For a thorough discussion, you can check this paper: Hale, Mark. 1990. ?Preliminaries to the Study of the Relationship between Sandhi and Syntax in the Language of the Rigveda.? *M?nchener Studien zur Sprachwissenschaft* 51:77?96. All the best, Dieter On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:54 PM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Hello Hans, > > The fact that R?gveda 10.127.3 has *askr?ta* but the Padap??ha has > *akr?ta*, probably explains why P??ini did not include a root *skr?*, but > only proposed a contextual insertion or augmentation with "*s"*. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Hock, Hans Henrich > wrote: > >> Addition: A Sanskrit example of *s-*mobile would be the coexistence of a >> root *tan-* and a root *stan-, *both meaning ?thunder? >> >> >> Dear Madhav and All, >> >> There is also *pari-?k?ta-**. *Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find >> any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general >> phenomenon in Indo-European, called *s*-mobile (the varying presence or >> absence of a root-initial * s*). The Wikipedia entry " >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful >> summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more >> speculative explanation would be that in structures like *namask?* the >> *s* was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier *ss* (similar to >> *asi* ?you are? for expected * as-si*, not also the Vedic external >> sandhi for *-s#st* etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is >> an alternative root form *sk?-*.) >> >> All the best, >> >> Hans >> >> >> On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form *askr?ta* showing the trace of >> the root *skr?*. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as * >> akr?ta*, indicating that the root *skr? *as an independent root is no >> longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like >> *sa?skaroti* where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually >> survivals of this earlier root *skr?*. Please suggest references that I >> can look up. >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl Fri Oct 30 13:54:49 2020 From: v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl (Bijlert, V.A. van) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 13:54:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Position of assistant-professor Hinduism at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam Message-ID: <519cbb3d88f440f9a108bee5d5a240f7@vu.nl> There is a position for an assistant-professor contemporary Hinduism at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam: https://werkenbij.vu.nl/ad/assistant-professor-of-hinduism/1j9gme Victor A. van Bijlert Lecturer Indian Religions and Sanskrit +31613184203 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 14:23:08 2020 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 07:23:08 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <84B90B5E-8122-4187-A745-EF02A5F7FDC2@gmail.com> Dear Diego and Don, Thank you for these helpful notes on an important passage. It comes up in discussions periodically so these notes will come in handy. Dear V.S.Rajam, It seems you may have missed the aforementioned colleagues? statements that Manu?s position IS misogynist (meaning hatred or disdain for women), even if this is unexceptional given the historical context. If you are criticizing Dalit rights and women?s rights movements and their critiques of the Manusmriti in your post, let me take this opportunity to kindly remind you that this is an academic and scholarly forum and as such casteism, sexism, and communalism have no place here. Regards, Tyler W Sent from a mobile device; please excuse any typographical errors or formatting-related issues. > On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:55 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ?Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad scene. > > Thanks and Regards, > V.S. Rajam > >> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY wrote: >> >> The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. >> >> The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. >> >> Best, Don >> >> Don Davis >> Dept. of Asian Studies >> University of Texas at Austin >> >> >> >> >> From: INDOLOGY on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info" >> Reply-To: rajam >> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM >> To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE >> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) >> >> Thank you very much for the explanation! >> >> Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? >> >> Thanks again, >> V.S. Rajam >> >> >> >> >>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY wrote: >>> >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": >>> >>> nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? >>> sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate >>> >>> pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? >>> rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate >>> >>> In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): >>> >>> "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" >>> >>> I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. >>> >>> On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. >>> >>> namaskaromi, >>> >>> Diego >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at Fri Oct 30 15:18:44 2020 From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 16:18:44 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] IIGRS 12, Call for Papers Message-ID: To doctorate students and young graduate scholars of Indology The 12th International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS 12) will be held in Vienna, Austria, from July 22nd to 24th 2021. It is funded and organised by the Department of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies (Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde, ISTB) of the University of Vienna in collaboration with the Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia (Institut f?r Kultur- und Geistesgeschichte Asiens, IKGA) of the Austrian Academy of Sciences. The conveners of the Symposium invite you to submit proposals for a presentation of approximately 20 minutes. Please see the full call for papers in the attachment. Let us also point out that the 26th European Conference on South Asian Studies (ECSAS 2021) will be held just after IIGRS 12 in Vienna, 26 ? 29 July 2021. This will provide a convenient opportunity especially for young scholars to meet students and specialists of various fields of Indology. For more information on this conference visit https://ecsas2021.univie.ac.at/. Further links: https://iigrs.wordpress.com/ https://stb.univie.ac.at/ https://www.oeaw.ac.at/ikga Christian Ferstl University of Vienna -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: iigrs12_cfp.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 223628 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 16:06:09 2020 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 17:06:09 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is useful. To be noted that "Kielhorn as a reprint" was originally written by F. Kielhorn in English. Since this translation into German by Dr. Solf (revised by Kielhorn himself) is already available at http://www.sanskritweb.net/deutsch/kielhorn.pdf it would be interesting to know which didactic, pedagogic or economic reasons have led to this republication -- rather than that of another early Sanskrit primer in German such as "Stenzler". Jan Houben On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 at 14:14, Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > > > although for linguistic reasons probably only of interest to a small > percentage of list subscribers, I would like to draw your attention to the > following set of new publications in the German language. It contains: > > > 1) B?hler?s Sanskrit Primer in a new typesetting (with continuous > references to the respective paragraphs in Kielhorn), > > 2) Kielhorn as a reprint, and > > 3) Study materials consisting of > > a) a Key to the Exercises, > > b) B?hler?s ?Third Book of Sanskrit? with > > c) a Glossary by Eugen Hultzsch > > > > https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html > > > > Each volume can also be purchased separately at a price of EUR 35,--, but > as a triplet at an unbeatable discount price of only EUR 59,--. > > https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica/product/200925_08-219-6.html > > > > Kindly regarding, > > WS > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 16:30:25 2020 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 17:30:25 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear V.S. Rajam, Thanks for having raised these points including those to current events in Tamilnadu, useful to know even for list members who primarily want or hope to be able to pursue their Indological studies as an enterprise of 'pure science'. The ways of use and abuse of a text are almost limitless, and one of these uses, probably one of the most valid ones, is: to better understand an ancient society. If that is our aim, the Manusmrti as a source on the position of women in classical India has to be supplemented, minimally, by the Mah?bh?rata, Sources on the Buddha and ?mrap?l? and on the Buddha and women aspiring to become nuns, the K?mas?tra ... a closer study from a modern politicized perspective may or may not lead to the burning of these sources as well... With best regards, Jan Houben On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 20:55, rajam via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, > especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, > brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar > texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could > read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, > everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad > scene. > > Thanks and Regards, > V.S. Rajam > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a > man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though > hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to > (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that > pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it > may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? > (at least in American English) is one who has sex *in exchange for money*. > Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, > because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and > attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict > sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more > deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their > adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s > innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. > > The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery > and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but > it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. > > Best, Don > > Don Davis > Dept. of Asian Studies > University of Texas at Austin > > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of " > indology at list.indology.info" > *Reply-To: *rajam > *Date: *Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM > *To: *DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE > *Cc: *"indology at list.indology.info" > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) > > Thank you very much for the explanation! > > Could you please also verify if these specific *?loka*s refer to ?all > women? in general or only certain women? > > Thanks again, > V.S. Rajam > > > > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > > Dear all, > > With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect > and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some > *?loka*s of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a > simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to > sensual pleasure": > > > > > > *nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti?sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n > ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca > svabh?vata? rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate * > > In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis > mine): > > "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is > good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's > a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness > that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS > WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" > > I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely > adequate, *pau??calya*>*pu??-cal?* is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically > and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" > or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. > > > On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much > exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, > which I support. > > *namaskaromi*, > > Diego > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- *Jan E.M. Houben* Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) *Sciences historiques et philologiques * *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Fri Oct 30 17:28:35 2020 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 17:28:35 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Madhav. The padap??hakara evidently considered ask?ta to be anomalous from his synchronic perspective; and P??ini?s treatment too makes synchronic sense. Here as elsewhere we need to remember that the Sanskrit grammatical tradition was synchronic, whereas western approaches to Sanskrit, especially to Vedic, tend to be diachronic. For historical-comparative linguists this difference, and the different conclusions regarding forms like ask?ta, pari?k?ta, should actually be quite instructive; they raise interesting questions about the development of the language after the ?Ur-?g Veda?. (George Cardona has had interesting things to say in this regard, in reference to metrical issues.) I hope you are keeping well, Hans On 29 Oct2020, at 17:53, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: Hello Hans, The fact that R?gveda 10.127.3 has askr?ta but the Padap??ha has akr?ta, probably explains why P??ini did not include a root skr?, but only proposed a contextual insertion or augmentation with "s". Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Hock, Hans Henrich > wrote: Addition: A Sanskrit example of s-mobile would be the coexistence of a root tan- and a root stan-, both meaning ?thunder? Dear Madhav and All, There is also pari-?k?ta-. Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general phenomenon in Indo-European, called s-mobile (the varying presence or absence of a root-initial s). The Wikipedia entry "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more speculative explanation would be that in structures like namask? the s was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier ss (similar to asi ?you are? for expected as-si, not also the Vedic external sandhi for -s#st etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is an alternative root form sk?-.) All the best, Hans On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear colleagues, In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form askr?ta showing the trace of the root skr?. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as akr?ta, indicating that the root skr? as an independent root is no longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like sa?skaroti where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this earlier root skr?. Please suggest references that I can look up. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Oct 30 19:28:47 2020 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 12:28:47 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Hans. Indeed, that is the sort of difference I am noticing here. Without a comment, ??kalya renders the *askr?ta *of the Sa?hit? to *akr?ta *in the Padap??ha. This has both historical and theoretical implications. Since we don't have ??kalya's grammar with us, P??ini shows what synchronic grammarians might do with such things. But for this specific example, I don't remember seeing a particular rule in P??ini that would take us from *akr?ta *of the Padap??ha to *askr?ta* of the Sa?hit? with augmentation of the root with "*s*". The closest I find is P.6.1.136, which says that the augment " *s*" can be attached even when there is intervention by the past tense marker "*a*" or reduplication of the root. The example of the first is *sam-a-s-karot*. In RV we have 10.127.03a *n?r u sv?s?ram **askr?ta*, though the pre-verb/preposition *nis/nir *is separated from the verb *askr?ta*, it is the intended combination *nir-a-s-kr?ta* or the base verbal combination *ni?karoti/ni?kurute* that explains the "s" in this form. Perhaps a good example of "s-mobile". Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:29 AM Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Thanks, Madhav. > > The padap??hakara evidently considered *ask?ta* to be anomalous from his > synchronic perspective; and P??ini?s treatment too makes synchronic sense. > Here as elsewhere we need to remember that the Sanskrit grammatical > tradition was synchronic, whereas western approaches to Sanskrit, > especially to Vedic, tend to be diachronic. > > For historical-comparative linguists this difference, and the different > conclusions regarding forms like *ask?ta, pari?k?ta*, should actually be > quite instructive; they raise interesting questions about the development > of the language after the ?Ur-?g Veda?. (George Cardona has had interesting > things to say in this regard, in reference to metrical issues.) > > I hope you are keeping well, > > Hans > > > On 29 Oct2020, at 17:53, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Hello Hans, > > The fact that R?gveda 10.127.3 has *askr?ta* but the Padap??ha has > *akr?ta*, probably explains why P??ini did not include a root * skr?*, > but only proposed a contextual insertion or augmentation with "*s"*. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Hock, Hans Henrich > wrote: > >> Addition: A Sanskrit example of *s-*mobile would be the coexistence of a >> root *tan-* and a root *stan-, *both meaning ?thunder? >> >> >> Dear Madhav and All, >> >> There is also *pari-?k?ta-**. *Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find >> any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general >> phenomenon in Indo-European, called *s*-mobile (the varying presence or >> absence of a root-initial * s*). The Wikipedia entry " >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful >> summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more >> speculative explanation would be that in structures like *namask?* the >> *s* was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier *ss* (similar to >> *asi* ?you are? for expected *as-si*, not also the Vedic external sandhi >> for *-s#st* etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is an >> alternative root form *sk?-*.) >> >> All the best, >> >> Hans >> >> >> On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form *askr?ta* showing the trace of >> the root *skr?*. The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as * >> akr?ta*, indicating that the root *skr? *as an independent root is no >> longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like >> *sa?skaroti* where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually >> survivals of this earlier root *skr?*. Please suggest references that I >> can look up. >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walter.slaje at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 20:12:07 2020 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 21:12:07 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rather than entering into a discourse on didactic, pedagogical and economic reasons, and before such demands turn into a binding questionnaire for publication announcements ? however modest they might be ?, let me just make the statement that one can occasionally take decisions based solely on practical considerations for the benefit of the Sanskrit neophyte. First of all, the package of three volumes aims primarily at a German speaking readership (?although for linguistic reasons probably only of interest to a small percentage of list subscribers?). Moreover, as far as Kielhorn is concerned, his work is not a "primer" as incorrectly claimed, but a structured, complete grammar of classical Sanskrit. In contrast, B?hler is a didactically arranged basic course, ?a primer? that draws entirely on Kielhorn's work in terms of subject matter and paradigms. In the present new edition of B?hler, reference is therefore consistently made to the corresponding paragraphs in Kielhorn?s grammar to ensure a constant overview of the grammatical structure of the Sanskrit language. Finally, the "Third Book of Sanskrit" contains only Sanskrit texts, whereas the glossary by Eugen Hultzsch is again in German. So much for the explanation of the choice of language for these three books aimed at the German language market. The German version of 1888 (revised by Kielhorn) corresponds to the 3rd edition of the English version (also 1888). This one represents the latest state of the art, so to speak. It is however not the first reprint of Kielhorn?s. Even though electronic files are available today, everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves whether a downloadable PDF version is considered a suitable equivalent. Now a note on the anglophone editions: As already mentioned, Kielhorn is available in English as a revised 3rd edition. The same applies cum grano salis to B?hler in the shape of an English adaptation by Edward Delavan Perry, ?A Sanskrit Primer? (several editions between 1885 and 1936). Finally, there is an English glossary for the "Third Book of Sanskrit" by Vi??u Para?ur?m ??str? Pa??it. It is up to others to reprint their works in English if they are deemed suitable. Regards, WS Am Fr., 30. Okt. 2020 um 17:06 Uhr schrieb Jan E.M. Houben < jemhouben at gmail.com>: > This is useful. > To be noted that "Kielhorn as a reprint" was originally written by F. > Kielhorn in English. > Since this translation into German by Dr. Solf (revised by Kielhorn > himself) is already available at > http://www.sanskritweb.net/deutsch/kielhorn.pdf > it would be interesting to know which didactic, pedagogic or economic > reasons have led to this republication -- rather than that of another early > Sanskrit primer in German such as "Stenzler". > Jan Houben > > On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 at 14:14, Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> >> >> although for linguistic reasons probably only of interest to a small >> percentage of list subscribers, I would like to draw your attention to the >> following set of new publications in the German language. It contains: >> >> >> 1) B?hler?s Sanskrit Primer in a new typesetting (with continuous >> references to the respective paragraphs in Kielhorn), >> >> 2) Kielhorn as a reprint, and >> >> 3) Study materials consisting of >> >> a) a Key to the Exercises, >> >> b) B?hler?s ?Third Book of Sanskrit? with >> >> c) a Glossary by Eugen Hultzsch >> >> >> >> https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html >> >> >> >> Each volume can also be purchased separately at a price of EUR 35,--, but >> as a triplet at an unbeatable discount price of only EUR 59,--. >> >> https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica/product/200925_08-219-6.html >> >> >> >> Kindly regarding, >> >> WS >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -- > > *Jan E.M. Houben* > > Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology > > *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite* > > ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres) > > *Sciences historiques et philologiques * > > *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu * > > *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben > * > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Sat Oct 31 01:48:45 2020 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 18:48:45 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: <84B90B5E-8122-4187-A745-EF02A5F7FDC2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F40E8A4-2652-4541-B0EF-562F2078C448@earthlink.net> Dear List Members, Thank you all who have responded to my query about Manusmriti. I really appreciate your help in understanding a passage in Manusmriti. Thank you all! Dear Tyler W, I have not missed reading any of the responses related to my posting about Manusmriti. I am least interested in politicizing any text. My query was naive, just wanting to know if there was any reference in Manusmriti to describing women as ?prostitutes." [I am 78+ years old; my students and colleagues and friends on this list would know whether I am political. If only Professor Ludo Rocher is alive today ? I would have asked him personally about this text. I miss him now more than ever.] I gave some background information about how this text, Manusmriti, is understood positively or negatively, as a reason for my query. That?s it. Please don?t take it beyond that. Thanks and Regards, V.S.Rajam > On Oct 30, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Tyler Williams wrote: > > Dear Diego and Don, > Thank you for these helpful notes on an important passage. It comes up in discussions periodically so these notes will come in handy. > > Dear V.S.Rajam, > It seems you may have missed the aforementioned colleagues? statements that Manu?s position IS misogynist (meaning hatred or disdain for women), even if this is unexceptional given the historical context. If you are criticizing Dalit rights and women?s rights movements and their critiques of the Manusmriti in your post, let me take this opportunity to kindly remind you that this is an academic and scholarly forum and as such casteism, sexism, and communalism have no place here. > > Regards, > Tyler W > > Sent from a mobile device; please excuse any typographical errors or formatting-related issues. > >> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:55 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY wrote: >> >> ?Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad scene. >> >> Thanks and Regards, >> V.S. Rajam >> >>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>> >>> The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. >>> >>> The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. >>> >>> Best, Don >>> >>> Don Davis >>> Dept. of Asian Studies >>> University of Texas at Austin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info " > >>> Reply-To: rajam > >>> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM >>> To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE > >>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info " > >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) >>> >>> Thank you very much for the explanation! >>> >>> Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? >>> >>> Thanks again, >>> V.S. Rajam >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": >>>> >>>> nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? >>>> sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate >>>> >>>> pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? >>>> rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate >>>> >>>> In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): >>>> >>>> "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" >>>> >>>> I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. >>>> >>>> On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. >>>> >>>> namaskaromi, >>>> >>>> Diego >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 04:21:01 2020 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 20 21:21:01 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: <3F40E8A4-2652-4541-B0EF-562F2078C448@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Some list members may be interested in knowing the immediate political context and raison d'?tre for the original query: the Bharatiya Janta Party in Tamil Nadu is currently attempting to turn comments on the Manusmriti by a Dalit activist into a wedge political issue during an election year. This has been well-documented in the press. With all due respect, Professor Rajam, your query was made *explicitly *in response to what you called "a severe extremist movement," i.e. the Viduthaliai Chirsuthaigal Katchi, a Dalit political group. You also quite clearly characterized such critiques of the Manusmriti as being by "people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins." Critiques of the Manusmriti, especially by Dalits and feminists, do not constitute anti-Hindu or anti-Brahmin sentiment, though they may indeed constitute anti-Brahminical politics. If you have been misinformed in this regard, I and others on the list will be happy to point you to the relevant sources. I think you will find that those who want to symbolically burn the Manusmriti do not want to end its study--quite the opposite--but rather want something much more simple: to not be killed, raped, spat upon, or discriminated against by upper castes. But I suppose one has to believe that caste existed and exists in Tamil Nadu before one can face the political consequences of it. Regards, Tyler W. On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:48 PM rajam wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Thank you all who have responded to my query about Manusmriti. I really > appreciate your help in understanding a passage in Manusmriti. Thank you > all! > > > Dear Tyler W, > > I have not missed reading any of the responses related to my posting about > Manusmriti. > > I am least interested in politicizing any text. My query was naive, just > wanting to know if there was any reference in Manusmriti to describing > women as ?prostitutes." > > [I am 78+ years old; my students and colleagues and friends on this list > would know whether I am political. > If only Professor Ludo Rocher is alive today ? I would have asked him > personally about this text. I miss him now more than ever.] > > I gave some background information about how this text, Manusmriti, is > understood positively or negatively, as a reason for my query. That?s it. > > Please don?t take it beyond that. > > Thanks and Regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > > On Oct 30, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Tyler Williams > wrote: > > Dear Diego and Don, > Thank you for these helpful notes on an important passage. It comes up in > discussions periodically so these notes will come in handy. > > Dear V.S.Rajam, > It seems you may have missed the aforementioned colleagues? statements > that Manu?s position IS misogynist (meaning hatred or disdain for women), > even if this is unexceptional given the historical context. If you are > criticizing Dalit rights and women?s rights movements and their critiques > of the Manusmriti in your post, let me take this opportunity to kindly > remind you that this is an academic and scholarly forum and as such > casteism, sexism, and communalism have no place here. > > Regards, > Tyler W > > Sent from a mobile device; please excuse any typographical errors or > formatting-related issues. > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:55 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > ?Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, > especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, > brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar > texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could > read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, > everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad > scene. > > Thanks and Regards, > V.S. Rajam > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a > man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though > hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to > (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that > pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it > may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? > (at least in American English) is one who has sex *in exchange for money*. > Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, > because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and > attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict > sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more > deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their > adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s > innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. > > The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery > and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but > it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. > > Best, Don > > Don Davis > Dept. of Asian Studies > University of Texas at Austin > > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of " > indology at list.indology.info" > *Reply-To: *rajam > *Date: *Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM > *To: *DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE > *Cc: *"indology at list.indology.info" > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) > > Thank you very much for the explanation! > > Could you please also verify if these specific *?loka*s refer to ?all > women? in general or only certain women? > > Thanks again, > V.S. Rajam > > > > > On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > > Dear all, > > With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect > and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some > *?loka*s of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a > simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to > sensual pleasure": > > > > > > *nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti?sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n > ity eva bhu?jate pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca > svabh?vata? rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate * > > In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis > mine): > > "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is > good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's > a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness > that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS > WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" > > I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely > adequate, *pau??calya*>*pu??-cal?* is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically > and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" > or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. > > > On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much > exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, > which I support. > > *namaskaromi*, > > Diego > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sharonbendor at yahoo.com Sat Oct 31 12:56:39 2020 From: sharonbendor at yahoo.com (Sharon Ben-Dor) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 20 12:56:39 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_root_skr=CC=A5=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <196522705.572006.1604148999719@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Madhav, The addition of su? poses quite a few difficulties. Because you mentioned K??ik?v?tti s?tra A 6.1.136, I think it is relevant to point out one of the explanations of the Prad?pa and Uddyota under the Bh??ya on A 6.1.135 vt.7 which offers an unconventional point of view on the matter. There, Kaiya?a says that Pata?jali?s argument ?evamartham eva tarhi ka?tpu?rvagrahan?am? kartavyam? ka?tpu?rvo yatha? sya?t? (Bh III.93.3-4) may alternatively mean that p?rva in A 6.1.135 is used for specifying the stage when su? should be added (k?l?vadh?ra?a) - when ?uk?? begins with the sound k, before the addition of a? or the reduplication. N?ge?a comments that this is Pata?jali?s final opinion on the issue. With this explanation, K?ty?yana?s v?rttikas 5 and 6 on A 6.1.135, or K??ik?v?tti?s s?tra A 6.1.136, are unnecessary. But it does not solve all the difficulties mentioned by the commentators. For example, A 7.2.43 may undesirably be applicable in samsk?????a because there is an a?ga that begins with a sa?yoga and ends with ? (sam sk?+li?).? In my opinion, the requirement, introduced by K?ty?yana in his v?rttika on A 1.1.66/67, that the preceding and following items must be in an immediate sequence without any other intervening item is unnecessary. As far as I can see, this requirement does not have any purpose and causes many difficulties. In addition, the Bh??ya on A 1.1.57 (Bh 244.10-11) argues that p?rva is used also when there is something in between, as in ?pu?rva? mathura?ya?h? pa?t?aliputram?, and K?ty?yana says ?d?s?t?am a?nantaryam? vyavahite? (A 1.1.7 vt.7-Bh I.59.11). Yours Sharon On Friday, October 30, 2020, 9:30:06 PM GMT+2, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote: Thanks, Hans.? Indeed, that is the sort of difference I am noticing here.? Without a comment, ??kalya renders the askr?ta of the Sa?hit? to akr?ta in the Padap??ha.? This has both historical and theoretical implications. Since we don't have ??kalya's grammar with us, P??ini shows what synchronic grammarians might do with such things.? But for this specific example, I don't remember seeing a particular rule in P??ini that would take us from akr?ta of the Padap??ha to askr?ta?of the Sa?hit? with augmentation of the root with "s".? The closest I find is P.6.1.136, which says that the augment "s" can be attached even when there is intervention by the past tense marker "a" or reduplication of the root. The example of the first is sam-a-s-karot. In RV we have?10.127.03a? n?r u sv?s?ram?askr?ta, though the pre-verb/preposition nis/nir is separated from the verb askr?ta, it is the intended combination nir-a-s-kr?ta?or the base verbal combination ni?karoti/ni?kurute?that explains the "s" in this form.? Perhaps a good example of "s-mobile". Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:29 AM Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: >?? >?? > Thanks, Madhav.? > > > > > The padap??hakara evidently considered ask?ta?to be anomalous from his synchronic perspective; and P??ini?s treatment too makes synchronic sense. Here as elsewhere we need to remember that the Sanskrit grammatical tradition was synchronic, whereas western approaches to Sanskrit, especially to Vedic, tend to be diachronic. > > > > > For historical-comparative linguists this difference, and the different conclusions regarding forms like ask?ta, pari?k?ta, should actually be quite instructive; they raise interesting questions about the development of the language after the ?Ur-?g Veda?. (George Cardona has had interesting things to say in this regard, in reference to metrical issues.) > > > > > I hope you are keeping well, > > > > > Hans > > > > > >?? >>?? >> On 29 Oct2020, at 17:53, Madhav Deshpande wrote: >> >> >>?? >> Hello Hans, >> >> >> >> ? ? ?The fact that R?gveda 10.127.3 has askr?ta?but the Padap??ha has akr?ta, probably explains why P??ini did not include a root??skr?, but only proposed a contextual insertion or augmentation with "s". Best, >> >> >> >> >> Madhav >> >> >> >>?? >>?? >>?? >>?? >>?? >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> >> >> >> >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>?? >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: >> >> >>>?? >>>?? >>>?? >>> Addition: A Sanskrit example of s-mobile would be the coexistence of a root tan-?and a root stan-, both meaning ?thunder? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Madhav and All, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> There is also pari-?k?ta-. Unfortunately, Mayrhofer could not find any convincing parallels outside Sanskrit. However, there is a general phenomenon in Indo-European, called s-mobile (the varying presence or absence of a root-initial??s). The Wikipedia entry "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_s-mobile? has a useful summary, as well as some relevant references. (An alternative, but more speculative explanation would be that in structures like namask??the s?was reinterpreted as a simplification of earlier ss?(similar to asi??you are? for expected as-si, not also the Vedic external sandhi for -s#st?etc.) and that this led to the notion that there is an alternative root form sk?-.) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hans >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>?? >>>>?? >>>> On 29 Oct2020, at 16:58, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>?? >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In R?gveda 10.127.3 there is a verb form askr?ta?showing the trace of the root skr?.? The Padap??ha of ??kalya presents this form as??akr?ta, indicating that the root skr? as an independent root is no longer recognized. What is going on? Can one presume that forms like sa?skaroti?where P??ini prescribes the insertion of "s" are actually survivals of this earlier root skr?.? Please suggest references that I can look up. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>?? >>>>?? >>>>?? >>>>?? >>>>?? >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >>>> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >>>> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From s.raman at utoronto.ca Sat Oct 31 13:22:15 2020 From: s.raman at utoronto.ca (Srilata Raman) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 20 09:22:15 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I would be the last to give the Manusmriti a clean chit or reproach a stance against it. Nevertheless, the politics of Tamil Nadu are torturous and complicated and some issues - the Manusmriti among them - tend to be pulled up at strategic moments in the long history of Dravidian politics and waved like red flags by men wanting as usual to decide what they need to get indignant about when it comes to ?their mothers, sisters and daughters?. Right now it has become part of the ugly fight between Hindutva forces and those which oppose it. This being said, I don?t see Professor Rajam as a person who takes a politically aggressive stance against Dalit politics or Thol. Thirumaavalavan. Above all, I don?t think she should be condescended to. Kind regards, Srilata Raman Sent from my iPad > On Oct 31, 2020, at 12:22 AM, Tyler Williams via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ? > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Treat content with extra caution. > Some list members may be interested in knowing the immediate political context and raison d'?tre for the original query: the Bharatiya Janta Party in Tamil Nadu is currently attempting to turn comments on the Manusmriti by a Dalit activist into a wedge political issue during an election year. This has been well-documented in the press. > > With all due respect, Professor Rajam, your query was made explicitly in response to what you called "a severe extremist movement," i.e. the Viduthaliai Chirsuthaigal Katchi, a Dalit political group. You also quite clearly characterized such critiques of the Manusmriti as being by "people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins." Critiques of the Manusmriti, especially by Dalits and feminists, do not constitute anti-Hindu or anti-Brahmin sentiment, though they may indeed constitute anti-Brahminical politics. If you have been misinformed in this regard, I and others on the list will be happy to point you to the relevant sources. I think you will find that those who want to symbolically burn the Manusmriti do not want to end its study--quite the opposite--but rather want something much more simple: to not be killed, raped, spat upon, or discriminated against by upper castes. > > But I suppose one has to believe that caste existed and exists in Tamil Nadu before one can face the political consequences of it. > > Regards, > Tyler W. > >> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:48 PM rajam wrote: >> Dear List Members, >> >> Thank you all who have responded to my query about Manusmriti. I really appreciate your help in understanding a passage in Manusmriti. Thank you all! >> >> >> Dear Tyler W, >> >> I have not missed reading any of the responses related to my posting about Manusmriti. >> >> I am least interested in politicizing any text. My query was naive, just wanting to know if there was any reference in Manusmriti to describing women as ?prostitutes." >> >> [I am 78+ years old; my students and colleagues and friends on this list would know whether I am political. >> If only Professor Ludo Rocher is alive today ? I would have asked him personally about this text. I miss him now more than ever.] >> >> I gave some background information about how this text, Manusmriti, is understood positively or negatively, as a reason for my query. That?s it. >> >> Please don?t take it beyond that. >> >> Thanks and Regards, >> V.S.Rajam >> >> >> >>> On Oct 30, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Tyler Williams wrote: >>> >>> Dear Diego and Don, >>> Thank you for these helpful notes on an important passage. It comes up in discussions periodically so these notes will come in handy. >>> >>> Dear V.S.Rajam, >>> It seems you may have missed the aforementioned colleagues? statements that Manu?s position IS misogynist (meaning hatred or disdain for women), even if this is unexceptional given the historical context. If you are criticizing Dalit rights and women?s rights movements and their critiques of the Manusmriti in your post, let me take this opportunity to kindly remind you that this is an academic and scholarly forum and as such casteism, sexism, and communalism have no place here. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Tyler W >>> >>> Sent from a mobile device; please excuse any typographical errors or formatting-related issues. >>> >>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:55 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad scene. >>>> >>>> Thanks and Regards, >>>> V.S. Rajam >>>> >>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. >>>>> >>>>> The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. >>>>> >>>>> Best, Don >>>>> >>>>> Don Davis >>>>> Dept. of Asian Studies >>>>> University of Texas at Austin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: INDOLOGY on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info" >>>>> Reply-To: rajam >>>>> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM >>>>> To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE >>>>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" >>>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much for the explanation! >>>>> >>>>> Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> V.S. Rajam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": >>>>>> >>>>>> nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? >>>>>> sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate >>>>>> >>>>>> pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? >>>>>> rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate >>>>>> >>>>>> In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): >>>>>> >>>>>> "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" >>>>>> >>>>>> I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. >>>>>> >>>>>> On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. >>>>>> >>>>>> namaskaromi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Diego >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Sat Oct 31 18:25:24 2020 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 20 11:25:24 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Tylor W., Thank you for your posting. Thol. Thirumavalavan and other members of his party are my good friends. In fact, Thol. Thirumavalavan & the secretary of his party published one my books (albeit small in size). If I need any clarification about anything political, I can ask them directly. So, no worries. Thank you!. I?d like to stop participating in this thread with this posting. Respectful Moderators of this List, My apologies to the List moderators that this thread which started with a naive query has taken deviated routes. If you?d decide please remove the whole thread from the List. Thank you! Regards, V.S. Rajam > On Oct 30, 2020, at 9:21 PM, Tyler Williams wrote: > > Some list members may be interested in knowing the immediate political context and raison d'?tre for the original query: the Bharatiya Janta Party in Tamil Nadu is currently attempting to turn comments on the Manusmriti by a Dalit activist into a wedge political issue during an election year. This has been well-documented in the press. > > With all due respect, Professor Rajam, your query was made explicitly in response to what you called "a severe extremist movement," i.e. the Viduthaliai Chirsuthaigal Katchi, a Dalit political group. You also quite clearly characterized such critiques of the Manusmriti as being by "people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins." Critiques of the Manusmriti, especially by Dalits and feminists, do not constitute anti-Hindu or anti-Brahmin sentiment, though they may indeed constitute anti-Brahminical politics. If you have been misinformed in this regard, I and others on the list will be happy to point you to the relevant sources. I think you will find that those who want to symbolically burn the Manusmriti do not want to end its study--quite the opposite--but rather want something much more simple: to not be killed, raped, spat upon, or discriminated against by upper castes. > > But I suppose one has to believe that caste existed and exists in Tamil Nadu before one can face the political consequences of it. > > Regards, > Tyler W. > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:48 PM rajam > wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Thank you all who have responded to my query about Manusmriti. I really appreciate your help in understanding a passage in Manusmriti. Thank you all! > > > Dear Tyler W, > > I have not missed reading any of the responses related to my posting about Manusmriti. > > I am least interested in politicizing any text. My query was naive, just wanting to know if there was any reference in Manusmriti to describing women as ?prostitutes." > > [I am 78+ years old; my students and colleagues and friends on this list would know whether I am political. > If only Professor Ludo Rocher is alive today ? I would have asked him personally about this text. I miss him now more than ever.] > > I gave some background information about how this text, Manusmriti, is understood positively or negatively, as a reason for my query. That?s it. > > Please don?t take it beyond that. > > Thanks and Regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > >> On Oct 30, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Tyler Williams > wrote: >> >> Dear Diego and Don, >> Thank you for these helpful notes on an important passage. It comes up in discussions periodically so these notes will come in handy. >> >> Dear V.S.Rajam, >> It seems you may have missed the aforementioned colleagues? statements that Manu?s position IS misogynist (meaning hatred or disdain for women), even if this is unexceptional given the historical context. If you are criticizing Dalit rights and women?s rights movements and their critiques of the Manusmriti in your post, let me take this opportunity to kindly remind you that this is an academic and scholarly forum and as such casteism, sexism, and communalism have no place here. >> >> Regards, >> Tyler W >> >> Sent from a mobile device; please excuse any typographical errors or formatting-related issues. >> >>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:55 PM, rajam via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>> >>> ?Thank you very much!!! You can imagine how it trickles down to Tamilnadu, especially to people who don?t know Sanskrit and who hate Hinduism, brahmins, ? and so on. People who hate brahmins use Manusmriti and similar texts as their tools in their politics. I wonder how many of them could read these original texts in Sanskrit. Depending upon the translations, everyone?s understanding and interpretation may vary. It is truly a sad scene. >>> >>> Thanks and Regards, >>> V.S. Rajam >>> >>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 12:27 PM, Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>>> >>>> The context at the beginning of Chapter 9 is the law or duties between a man and wife. However, the misogyny of the text is unmistakeable (though hardly out of line with nearly all texts in antiquity) and 9.14-15 seem to (mis-)characterize females generally. However, I would add is that pau??calya here denotes lust or an innate sexual desire for men. While it may sometimes refer to a prostitute, the primary meaning of ?prostitute? (at least in American English) is one who has sex in exchange for money. Granted, there are other meanings, but the money piece matters, I think, because the condemnation in Manu is about women?s temptations and attributed inclinations toward adultery, not prostitution in a strict sense. The passage is exhorting husbands to control their wives (or, more deviously, keep women hyper-occupied, 9.10-12) in order to prevent their adultery. It then justifies this control on the false grounds of women?s innate lechery, fickleness, and general inconstancy. >>>> >>>> The question might be asked whether the English distinction of adultery and prostitution maps on precisely and consistently to Sanskrit terms, but it would seem important to keep the two distinct at the outset. >>>> >>>> Best, Don >>>> >>>> Don Davis >>>> Dept. of Asian Studies >>>> University of Texas at Austin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of "indology at list.indology.info " > >>>> Reply-To: rajam > >>>> Date: Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:54 PM >>>> To: DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE > >>>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info " > >>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for the explanation! >>>> >>>> Could you please also verify if these specific ?lokas refer to ?all women? in general or only certain women? >>>> >>>> Thanks again, >>>> V.S. Rajam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DIEGO LOUKOTA SANCLEMENTE via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> With regard to Manu and "women being prostitutes," and with respect and utter admiration for Prof. Olivelle, I would like to suggest that some ?lokas of the passages already mentioned suggest something beyond a simple "need to guard [women] from even the slightest attachment to sensual pleasure": >>>>> >>>>> nait? r?pa? par?k?ante n?s?? vayasi sa?sthiti? >>>>> sur?pa? v? vir?pa? v? pum?n ity eva bhu?jate >>>>> >>>>> pau??caly?c calacitt?c ca naisnehy?c ca svabh?vata? >>>>> rak?it? yatnato 'p?ha bhart??v et? vikurvate >>>>> >>>>> In Prof. Olivelle's own translation ("they"=women, caps for emphasis mine): >>>>> >>>>> "They pay no attention to beauty, they pay no heed to age; whether he is good looking or ugly, they make love to him with the single thought, "He's a man!" Because of the lechery, fickleness of mind, and hard-heartedness that are innate in them, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE CAREFULLY GUARDED IN THIS WORLD, they become hostile towards their husband" >>>>> >>>>> I would remark here that although "lechery" is of course entirely adequate, pau??calya>pu??-cal? is literally "one who runs after men," idiomatically and unequivocally a "prostitute," so perhaps something like "whorishness" or "sl at ttiness" may convey more directly the flavour of the Sanskrit word. >>>>> >>>>> On a personal note, I feel the venerable Manu to be, without much exegesis or word-bending, pretty antagonistic to a modern feminist agenda, which I support. >>>>> >>>>> namaskaromi, >>>>> >>>>> Diego >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 21:59:08 2020 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 20 15:59:08 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manusmriti ... (Olivelle, J P) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The INDOLOGY list has no moderators. It is not a moderated list. It is up to the members individually to internalize the guidelines and the RFC 1855: Netiquette Guidelines by Sally Hambridge (1995). Threads and posts cannot be deleted. They are archived forever. Your great, great grandchildren will see what you say here :-) Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY list committee member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: